From: Forceful_Dragon | #399 TheConductorSix posted... Watch streams. Own3d or Twitch. Or watch Red and FD.
Oh and I've been meaning to ask. What could red or I do to make it more enjoyable to watch us stream? Obviously you get to see red abuse people with AP carries when he gets them, but would it be helpful if we were more explanatory while we played?
I'm really interested in seeing how the jungle game works. Does red ever jungle? Also, yeah I enjoy trying to use the stream as a learning tool for any off comments explaining why something failed or succeeded or anything like that. Any additional effort to say why something happened or why you are doing something would be appreciated, but don't try to force anything or go out of your comfort zone. Just play naturally but be more vocal about it, perhaps?
Red on jungle or support (and heck top if teemo is a bad match) is not something you want to see in high level play.
In the case of support I would say that red might make a better 2400 ELO support than he would make a 1800 ELO support.
The problems usually arise then the person he is laning with doesn't do something exactly in the best way possible, but red is playing with the assumption that his lane mate is going to do the optimal thing. And when they don't it all goes to hell.
I think i make a good support because usually I correctly read the intentions of the other people in lane.
My favorite match up is me on kayle against a janna and one of my favorite things to do is figure out when janna is going to shield and when she is going to not shield. If I think her shield is going to be late I throw my Q, otherwise I try and utilize a motion that will (1) keep me safe and (2) cause janna to throw up her shield since she assumes another Q is coming. Then wait for the shield to fall and throw the Q anyways while shield is on cooldown.
But it isn't just that, I have to know what level my AD carry is playing at be able to respond appropriately.
I prefer Dan Dinh's jungling to either of those two, simply because he rages less and is overall a more cheery sort of guy. And he pinpoints exactly what moves are wrong by going "oh crap, I shouldn't have done that dude" or "wow I can't believe I fell for that"
-- ~Peaf~ "Later that day, I f***ed a panda." - PSO
How entertaining your stream is for me is pretty much directly proportional to how close/active the game is, and you can't really control that, so.
I mean I kinda already osmosis stuff from red like proper warding/farming/harassing/teamfighting practice, and I'm not sure exposition would help especially if it's not natural to you.
The only thing I wish there was once in a while is jungling but yeah if Red can't do it "oh well" I'll just go watch some other stream for that.
-- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
I think it's amazing that you're able to play as well as you do at 30 fps. Whenever I drop to 20 (doesn't happen anymore due to getting a cooling pad for my monster laptop) my performance goes to hell. I mean, part of it is probably in the champion types we play in that I mostly play assassin types and you mostly play less bursty ones but yeah, I don't know how you cope as well as you do.
I guess there's a significant difference between 20 and 30 too. Still, I bet your game would be improved a good deal if you were running at 60.
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a stronger GPU is definitely the next thing on my list, but I feel like I can still make split second decisions at 30 frames.
But ever since the last patch my client has had a nasty habit of not minimizing correctly and so I'll have to close lolclient.exe via task manager during loading or else I'm stuck at 15 and that is really not enjoyable.
I think it does help that there is a predictive nature in how I approach the game and so as long as I'm thinking what I'm supposed to be thinking then my execution doesn't have to be *as* on point to win the day.
But with that said since I feel that execution in this way is my weak point I've been making an effort to play more execution heavy characters especially on my alt. Or at least to play the same characters in a more execution heavy way. I managed to get a TON of games in during last week when I was on break and so I feel like I'm still improving, at least in that regard. (But a better GPU will still help!)
if you guys streamed earlier than midnight est i would be able to watch more, lol
i like theoddone's stream for jungling, he usually explains what he's doing and how it'll effect his matchup, and i enjoy it when he gets mad (because he doesn't get like, nerd rage mad).
Where does dan dinh stream? I've never watched him
OctilIery posted... KommunistKoala posted... From: jdizzy156 | #2058 What are ad carrys like in Dota? He doesn't actually know, or he would've made an example by now
Except I do, but it's not my job to provide basic information because people are making these claims with no knowledge of Dota.
As many people have pointed out that is your job
you're so pathethic joyrock because I for one believe you're not even trolling, you really just have no sense of how an argument works
VincentLauw posted... OctilIery posted... KommunistKoala posted... From: jdizzy156 | #2058 What are ad carrys like in Dota? He doesn't actually know, or he would've made an example by now
Except I do, but it's not my job to provide basic information because people are making these claims with no knowledge of Dota.
As many people have pointed out that is your job
And many people were wrong. Moving on.
-- Joyrock Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!
jdizzy156 posted... Whelp I tried lol can't have a discussion if one side refuses to give evidence to back up there statements.
Or you could do your part and go out and actually look up about the champions and learn about the game before you make comments or hop into such conversations. *shrugs*
-- Joyrock Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!
Holy crap, Joyrock. How hard is it for you to understand the simple concept of burden of proof? It is up to the one who makes the claim to provide support for it.
"Burden of proof" is the obligation that somebody presenting a new or remarkable idea has to provide evidence to support it. In a scientific context evidence is experimental or empirical data (although in some branches, well thought out mathematics may suffice). Once some evidence has been presented, it is up to the opposing "side" to disprove the evidence presented or explain why it may not be adequate.
(Ab)use
Often, someone will present a new idea and say that it must be accepted because it cannot be disproved. This is insufficient because without evidence there is no reason to accept an idea, even if there is no contrary evidence
From: OctilIery | Posted: 4/10/2012 8:54:21 PM | #420 KommunistKoala posted... From: jdizzy156 | #2058 What are ad carrys like in Dota? He doesn't actually know, or he would've made an example by now
Except I do, but it's not my job to provide basic information because people are making these claims with no knowledge of Dota.
this is seriously one of the most pathetic posts I have ever read seriously
dan dinh streams on own3d, but for some reason he hasn't been on much. His teammate Kramer is streaming right now (4Not didn't disband or anything, right? >_>)
I haven't been keeping up on things since I've been so busy, but Dan Dinh usually streams a whole lot
-- ~Peaf~ "Later that day, I f***ed a panda." - PSO
As someone with extensive knowledge of DotA lets take a look at some Ranged AD carries.
I figured Joyrock would have made an example by now but he seems completely incapable. I took the time to compare and contrast 2 LoL ADs and he seems unwilling to do the same.
Ranged AD Carry #1: Drow
Abilities: 1) Frost Arrow - Toggle to fire an ice arrow instead of a normal arrow. Slows your opponent. 2) Silence - AoE silence effect. 3) Trueshot Aura - Increased ranged damage passive (is an aura effect) 4) Marksmanship - Increases Agility of Drow by a set amount. (agility effects attack speed and damage in AGI heroes)
Drow has four abilities. THREE of these abilities involve nothing other than making it easier for drow to auto attack someone until they die.
The FOURTH ability is a silence which is a good way to stop someone from CCing you, thus allowing you to attack them until they die unimpeded.
That is what she does. She attacks things. That is ALL she does.
We're not exactly off to a good start here, but lets move on.
Ranged AD Carry #2: Bone Fletcher "Clinkz"
Abilities: 1) Strafe - Increases attack speed. 2) Searing Arrow - Toggle to make attacks deal extra damage. 3) Wind Walk - Turns invisible and has increased movement speed. Invis breaks when you attack something. 4) Death Pact - Kills a creep. Heals and gains damage based on a percentage of the creeps HP.
Again we have a ranged AD whose kit is largely geared towards getting in position and then attack something until it is dead. He can increase his attack speed. He can cause his attacks to do more damage. He has an invisible which can either be used offensively (to position himself) or defensively (to escape). Last ability can also be used to heal himself at a clutch moment or more opportunistically for the damage it provides. Either way its clear that he wants to get into an opportune spot and attack attack attack. What else can he honestly do? What else does hit kit ALLOW him to do?
Can you build Intel on either of these heroes? Would that cause any of their abilities to increase in effectiveness? Could you finish a refresher orb on Drow without people laughing at you? Sure you can turn a 6 second silence into a 12 second silence but dropping that kind of cash on a non-DPS item would utterly and completely gimp you.
Yes DotA has a lot of great and unique "carry" champions. I loved playing Meepo, mister 'United We Stand'. There are few things in either game as unique as a champion that is essentially 4 champions at once, but if one dies then they all die. He's difficult to use well, but extremely effective in good hands.
There are few things more unique (or overpowered) than when Faceless Void literally causes time to stop in a medium sized area of effect. If he catches your whole team then you have no choice but to watch helplessly as he does his level best to kill as many of you as he can in the 5 seconds he has. (10 with refresher but lol that) A Faceless Void that is fully built will have no problem killing 2-3 people in those 5 seconds, and good luck 1v1ing him afterwards.
There are 108 heroes. They are all in some way different from one another, and naturally some of them manage to be incredibly unique, but it is completely egregious to insinuate that the ranged ADs found in LoL are in some way lacking to the ranged ADs in DotA. Two of the heroes as I've mentioned can do little else but sit and attack. And naturally there are Heroes like Weaver who are much more distinct, but for every one of those you have someone like Kog'Maw who literally BLOWS UP five seconds after he's been killed.
If you want to continue this conversation at all in any way that doesn't involve admitting defeat then please bring something to the table. I will not again respond to anything less.
Evelynn is legit enough the problem is the current meta doesn't support her well at all and even if you can get her to work the rewards aren't that great. Her very early (like pre level 5) game is too weak to jungle or support very well, and she's not suited to single lanes because she wants to roam. And your reward for enduring this is a "decent" rather than awesome late game champ due to all nerfs she got.
Why doesn't her passive work against jungle minions... at least then she'd be good at jungling and be able to keep up early game.
That's just one of a dozen potential fixes I could think of for her (and one of my less liked ones-- but it's just to illustrate how easy it is to give her a minor buff to make her work again).
She's still playable but yeah you really gotta work for it cause they overnerfed her and then forgot she existed.
-- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
Lopen posted... Evelynn is legit enough the problem is the current meta doesn't support her well at all and even if you can get her to work the rewards aren't that great. Her very early (like pre level 5) game is too weak to jungle or support very well, and she's not suited to single lanes because she wants to roam. And your reward for enduring this is a "decent" rather than awesome late game champ due to all nerfs she got.
Why doesn't her passive work against jungle minions... at least then she'd be good at jungling and be able to keep up early game.
That's just one of a dozen potential fixes I could think of for her (and one of my less liked ones-- but it's just to illustrate how easy it is to give her a minor buff to make her work again).
She's still playable but yeah you really gotta work for it cause they overnerfed her and then forgot she existed.
IIRC, eve was intentionally ruined until riot can do the stealth rework.
And response coming to FD when I can sit down at my computer for a bit.
-- Joyrock Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!
Yeah, maybe. I kinda dislike that fix because it'd typecast her to jungle which is bad-- not because it'd be op-- it definitely wouldn't be. She'd still have less jungle sustain (and arguably worse ganks) than a ton of jungle viable champs.
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From: OctilIery | #438 IIRC, eve was intentionally ruined until riot can do the stealth rework.
Yeah I realize. I'm just annoyed that Twitch and Shaco are a lot better than her right now-- see no reason to not just buff Eve a little to tide people over. It'd be very trivial to do so.
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Yeah. I won't be going Eve alone. I'm probably going to play Eve and Supports most of the time. My goal is to learn how to jungle with champs I actually like more than to use Eve-- I use her enough <_<
I could probably do it as is with like, Lee Sin or Udyr, but gross.
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Man, you guys complain about 30 FPS? I'm lucky to reach 25 (usually before minions spawn), and in large team fights usually fall to 6-10 range. Whenever I open shop for the first time in a match, my game freezes for about 5 seconds, no matter who else is there or how far into the game it is. 95% of the time, I am twice as far behind at the loading screen compared to anyone else.
:(
4Not is definitely still together, they did very well in the GGC tournament last week, IPL had qualifiers and point systems and whatnot so they didn't get into that. Also Realo, funny that you mention Mono looking like they're 12, they are all literally between 15 and 17 years old.
From: McBonesII | Posted: 4/10/2012 11:38:22 PM | #446 Man, you guys complain about 30 FPS? I'm lucky to reach 25 (usually before minions spawn), and in large team fights usually fall to 6-10 range. Whenever I open shop for the first time in a match, my game freezes for about 5 seconds, no matter who else is there or how far into the game it is. 95% of the time, I am twice as far behind at the loading screen compared to anyone else.
same
I feel like my technical skill would go up a lot if I got more than 10 fps in big teamfights
-- ~Peaf~ "Later that day, I f***ed a panda." - PSO
I should never autoattack an enemy champ with her, despite her ult giving an AS bonus. Q is my real autoattack, and I build her for AP, spell vamp, and nothing else.
Both her ult and her passive seem pretty terrible, though.
-- This isn't 1950. Girls develop way later than they used to because human lifespans have increased - Lavos_Fanboy