Do most of you hate christianity/religion in general, or do you simply hate the poorer or more pushy practitioners, such as Westboro or other "hardcore" religious people? This is one of the thing that has bothered me about a great many Atheists - why would you go around consistently trying to correct or mock religious people? What is wrong with having faith?
Yes, I am aware that science is not something that is really debatable - I'm not about to suggest that everything written in the bible is absolute truth. But on the other hand, there are a great many in both Christianity and all religions that do not believe everything written in scripture. And in fact, many of those that you hate on for following their religion are, in fact, questionable in their following of said scripture.
But what about the people that simply believe in a higher power? What about the ones that follow because they agree with the moral values, or the ones that follow for the sense of community?
I myself do not believe in any particular deity, but who is to say that there isn't something beyond us? I personally find the idea that we are the highest form of existence rather shortsighted and laughable. But that doesn't mean I'm about to go around forcing that belief on you.
So what is so wrong with someone living with their own beliefs? What part of being an Atheist seems to make so many of you(though I'm well aware not all) believe you shouldn't act with respect or integrity?
-- Joyrock Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!
Please try to avoid wording these sentences in such a loaded, accusatory fashion. I don't speak in such a manner to members of organized religion. I would like the same recognition of individualism I provide you. :)
And I think that effectively answers your question too.
VintageGin posted... angry internet atheists are not representative of atheists in general
I'm aware, it's a vocal minority of a large group(just like the bad portion of any religion) but a minority of such a large group can still be a large amount of people, and this is who I was addressing.
Apologies for accusatory tones implied!
-- Joyrock Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!
isn't this topic basically doing the exact same thing you are questioning them for
you are saying they are all doing something wrong and getting angry at them for saying others are all doing something wrong
double standards
No?
I'm not saying anything is wrong with atheism or their beliefs. I'm saying something is wrong with being needlessly confrontational without provocation - as has been seen quite often.
-- Joyrock Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!
There's something distinctly funny about opposing being needlessly confrontational by calling out a group of people to yell "WHY ARE YOU SO HATEFUL!?" <_<
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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.
I'm not saying anything is wrong with atheism or their beliefs. I'm saying something is wrong with being needlessly confrontational without provocation - as has been seen quite often. the only reason you see it quite often is because there is no reason you should actually be seeing atheism that isn't confrontational and thus your sample is inherently flawed
Thus why I'm not claiming this is the majority of atheists, or accusing anyone of anything(at least not intentionally).
I'm addressing the people that DO act as such.
-- Joyrock Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!
From: OctilIery | #001 Do most of you hate christianity/religion in general, or do you simply hate the poorer or more pushy practitioners, such as Westboro or other "hardcore" religious people? This is one of the thing that has bothered me about a great many Atheists - why would you go around consistently trying to correct or mock religious people? What is wrong with having faith?
Yes, I am aware that science is not something that is really debatable - I'm not about to suggest that everything written in the bible is absolute truth. But on the other hand, there are a great many in both Christianity and all religions that do not believe everything written in scripture. And in fact, many of those that you hate on for following their religion are, in fact, questionable in their following of said scripture.
But what about the people that simply believe in a higher power? What about the ones that follow because they agree with the moral values, or the ones that follow for the sense of community?
I myself do not believe in any particular deity, but who is to say that there isn't something beyond us? I personally find the idea that we are the highest form of existence rather shortsighted and laughable. But that doesn't mean I'm about to go around forcing that belief on you.
So what is so wrong with someone living with their own beliefs? What part of being an Atheist seems to make so many of you(though I'm well aware not all) believe you shouldn't act with respect or integrity?
1. I do not hate a single religion, I condemn the individuals who do wrong. The Catholic Church's heads throughout the years have done some terrible things, but John Paul II was a man I had a great amount of respect for. I don't even consider Westboro a religion. They are people who use God as a shield for their hate. If there is a God, I am going to say since we aren't melting in lava daily he doesn't like these people very much either.
I agree that it bothers me that some atheists go around mocking religion. It is rude and really unacceptable. But that isn't an atheist problem, it is a people problem. Don't hate the "belief" that is atheism, hate the dumbasses. They come from all walks of life!
I am unsure how to answer a lot of your questions because # 1 makes them all moot in reference to me.
I am an atheist and sometimes I feel ashamed of it because of how atheism has practically become a religion of its own. That is just f***ing ridiculous.
I respect others no matter what their belief is. I don't try to push my non-belief on them just as I don't want them to push their religion on me. You believe in God? Good for you. I don't. Different opinions. That's all there is to it.
But then there's a bunch of atheists that try to convince religious folk that God doesn't exist. Shut the f*** up. If they want t believe in God then that is their business. You do not believe in anything, stop acting like atheism is a belief, because it isn't. It is a lack of belief. Stop trying to make it a religion of its own. Even some sites will ask you of your religion and atheism will be under that category and it pisses me off because it isn't a religion.
Anyway, no, I don't hate people who believe in God. I respect them. And I respect their beliefs. However I do have a problem with those overly religious people who try to push their s*** on others who don't want it. If I encountered someone like that, I would tell them to shove it. Keep your beliefs to yourself because I'm not having it and I'm not being converted. At the same time I'm not trying to convince anyone that their religion or belief is wrong.
I kinda do think that religion in general is to blame for a lot of conflict. But I don't care. Because I'm an atheist. I just don't f***ing care. And that's how all atheists should be.
-- ~Halo You're not the brightest. http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/907/bandfinisher.jpg
Achromatic posted... From: OctilIery | #001 Do most of you hate christianity/religion in general, or do you simply hate the poorer or more pushy practitioners, such as Westboro or other "hardcore" religious people? This is one of the thing that has bothered me about a great many Atheists - why would you go around consistently trying to correct or mock religious people? What is wrong with having faith?
Yes, I am aware that science is not something that is really debatable - I'm not about to suggest that everything written in the bible is absolute truth. But on the other hand, there are a great many in both Christianity and all religions that do not believe everything written in scripture. And in fact, many of those that you hate on for following their religion are, in fact, questionable in their following of said scripture.
But what about the people that simply believe in a higher power? What about the ones that follow because they agree with the moral values, or the ones that follow for the sense of community?
I myself do not believe in any particular deity, but who is to say that there isn't something beyond us? I personally find the idea that we are the highest form of existence rather shortsighted and laughable. But that doesn't mean I'm about to go around forcing that belief on you.
So what is so wrong with someone living with their own beliefs? What part of being an Atheist seems to make so many of you(though I'm well aware not all) believe you shouldn't act with respect or integrity? 1. I do not hate a single religion, I condemn the individuals who do wrong. The Catholic Church's heads throughout the years have done some terrible things, but John Paul II was a man I had a great amount of respect for. I don't even consider Westboro a religion. They are people who use God as a shield for their hate. If there is a God, I am going to say since we aren't melting in lava daily he doesn't like these people very much either.
I agree that it bothers me that some atheists go around mocking religion. It is rude and really unacceptable. But that isn't an atheist problem, it is a people problem. Don't hate the "belief" that is atheism, hate the dumbasses. They come from all walks of life!
I am unsure how to answer a lot of your questions because # 1 makes them all moot in reference to me.
What a boring topic.
Oh I don't hate atheism, no worries. I know tons of people like you. Like I said, this is directed more to the dumbasses :P
-- Joyrock Fresh from my first justified ban. Ever!
Nope.. Why would you hate someone who was likely born into their religion? Most stay in their family's religion. Obviously the radicals (Westboro) and the politically manipulative (Catholic Bishops, Mormon Chruch) i have a problem with but thats something completely different.
-- Warning_Crazy Winner of Board 8 Big Brother! "You can't believe everything you read on the internet." -- Mark Twain
but I am pretty sure that when people mock religious people it is the same reason people mock anything- because they don't get it and think it is funny.
does this question actually need to be asked? why do people mock anything?
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I'm "kind of a big deal". http://img.imgcake.com/cyclo/Cyclopngegpngre.png
The first post assumes all atheists going around mocking someone, am I right?
But I guess that makes the point that if someone was an atheist and didn't go around mocking people on religion, you just wouldn't even think of them as atheist or theist.
I understand what you're asking but I don't think this topic is going to get the results you're looking for. You're basically going "Hey, jerks! Why are you such jerks???" And of course, they're not going to respond well to that...
Anyways I fall more on the agnostic side of things than the atheist side (I don't believe in a higher power, but I can't exactly claim I know for a fact there isn't one), but I'm respectful of any religious belief as long as that belief is respectable and the person conducts themselves appropriately. I'm not going to stand for intolerance or pushing beliefs on others, and because of that I'd never try to "convert" anyone to my way of thinking. Faith is something special to those who have it, just something that I'm not capable of nor want any part in. Also while I say it's special, faith can just as equally be dangerous in the hands of some (see: WBC brainwashing their children). But I mean, that's humanity for you. >_>
but I am pretty sure that when people mock religious people it is the same reason people mock anything- because they don't get it and think it is funny.
does this question actually need to be asked? why do people mock anything?
This is wrong though. Some of the best and most vicious parodies (I dare say most of the best, even) come from people who dearly love what they are ripping to shreds, and the mockery is a way to express how deeply they know their subject. Same way you probably call some of your friends by nicknames that are demeaning when taken out of context, but in context imply affection. Mockery doesn't come from ignorance, that's hatred - which sometimes leads to mockery, but not always.
From: HeroDelTiempo17 | #022 Anyways I fall more on the agnostic side of things than the atheist side (I don't believe in a higher power, but I can't exactly claim I know for a fact there isn't one)
Agnosticism and atheism aren't mutually exclusive. You can be both agnostic (not knowing) and atheist (not believing), and it sounds like you are.
This is wrong though. Some of the best and most vicious parodies (I dare say most of the best, even) come from people who dearly love what they are ripping to shreds, and the mockery is a way to express how deeply they know their subject. Same way you probably call some of your friends by nicknames that are demeaning when taken out of context, but in context imply affection. Mockery doesn't come from ignorance, that's hatred - which sometimes leads to mockery, but not always.
He isn't talking about parody or poking fun at your buddies. He is talking about vicious mockery with the intent to hurt people. I don't think he is complaining about brilliant, loving parody of religion.
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I'm "kind of a big deal". http://img.imgcake.com/cyclo/Cyclopngegpngre.png
I don't think it is their faith tho...I think such acts are the result of major psychological issues that make them vulnerable to dangerously misinterpreting things. I can't attribute these acts to their religion.
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no more mr. nice sess....hello mr. nice watch! somebody call the brinks truck!
Meh, I don't hate religion. I think religion, at its core, is a good thing. I do have a problem with people who use religion to justify their actions, good or bad. Bad for obvious reasons, but it sort of irks me when people say they do good things so they can go to heaven, as if they wouldn't do those good things if there was no incentive. Maybe they would, who knows, but that stance has always bothered me a little.
Oh, and creationism is hilarious.
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FAHtastic posted... , but it sort of irks me when people say they do good things so they can go to heaven, as if they wouldn't do those good things if there was no incentive. Maybe they would, who knows, but that stance has always bothered me a little.
This logic always annoys me. Atheists pride themselves on being "good without god", but have the arrogance to say that theists would not be. Yeah they might say they are doing it for religious reasons, but take away their religion and they won't turn into animals.
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no more mr. nice sess....hello mr. nice watch! somebody call the brinks truck!
What about them, Liquid? Are you saying people's religious beliefs should be disrespected just because some crazed maniac does something wrong?
I don't hate all christians because of certain cults that exist within it just like I don't hate all muslims because some are extremists, but when the faith itself is promoting sociopathic behavior(westboro), that is a problem and it needs to be acknowledged.
it feels nice to say "lets all get along man, live and let live!", but when you also have a group of people saying "god is killing your brothers and sisters deployed in iraq as punishment for letting gays marry", no, I will never get along with people like that, there are some things that should not be tolerated
MRNlCEWATCH posted... This logic always annoys me. Atheists pride themselves on being "good without god", but have the arrogance to say that theists would not be. Yeah they might say they are doing it for religious reasons, but take away their religion and they won't turn into animals.
I didn't say that. I just said it annoys me when people say they do good things to get into heaven, instead of saying that they'll get into heaven because they do good things.
It's a slight difference, but one nonetheless.
Also, I'm not atheist, I just don't believe in an afterlife.
masterplum posted... From: FAHtastic | #038 Oh, and creationism is hilarious. How so?
Because dinosaurs. Honestly though, if people want to believe in creationism, that's fine, I just don't think the Bible is supposed to be taken literally.
-- Still the number one reason for the success of the Internet. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v192/FAH_Frenchie/YANsig02.jpg
I didn't say that. I just said it annoys me when people say they do good things to get into heaven, instead of saying that they'll get into heaven because they do good things.
especially since this doesn't even match abrahamic scripture, you get into heaven for believing in that god and abandoning others, you're going to hell if you don't believe no matter how many good deeds you do.
Do most of you hate christianity/religion in general, or do you simply hate the poorer or more pushy practitioners, such as Westboro or other "hardcore" religious people?
I actually have a deep respect for Christians, especially those who take their religion seriously. It's nice to have conversations with people who actually care about life's most important questions.
Yes, I am aware that science is not something that is really debatable -
Hm? Science is highly debatable. Evaluating the limits of scientific truth value is one of the more active areas of philosophy today. And there are non-theological alternatives, such as phenomenology.
I personally find the idea that we are the highest form of existence rather shortsighted and laughable.
Atheists don't believe this, for the most part. Most will tell you that we're simply purposeless biological accidents, just like every other living thing. "Higher" and "lower" doesn't exist when one reduces the world to anonymous matter extended in space.
So what is so wrong with someone living with their own beliefs?
The Reddit Atheists are the absolute worst kind of athiest.
Absolutely spot-on. While it's true that most Christians- and most atheists... hell, most people- aren't particularly concerned with being consistent or rational when it comes to religion, only atheists seem to operate under this pretext of "reason" juxtaposed with the "fairytales" of religion (never mind that some of mankind's most intelligent men have been deeply religious). /r/atheists are the worst of the bunch, as they cling to New Atheism just like a quasi-religion. So frustrating!