Board 8 > **Save My Favorite Final Fantasy Character XIV** -- Overflow Discussion [smfffc]

(+) Yeah! (+)

I never thought I'd see the day where this was necessary.

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If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
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... it was necessary? >_>

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"Now I know what morning wood feels like~" - NioraptH

discussion everywhere

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http://steamcommunity.com/id/finali
G Senjou no Maou / Shadows of the Damned

Absolutely.

And dammit Gmun, I got distracted by facebook for a minute and was less than a second behind you.

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GuessMyUserName posted...
... it was necessary? >_>

you people keep taking all of the round topics to 500

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If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
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with you ruining the last 500 I couldn't let you take this one!

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lol well my real life drama has been blowing up today so I guess that was more important. But I totally would have had that otherwise.

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From: FFDragon | Posted: 4/14/2012 4:30:07 AM | #007
I know you're from Indonesia.

uh oh


innnncomingggggg

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"Hell yeah, mah titays be huge!" - GenesisSaga

FFD what have you done !

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"When I was a young man, I had liberty, but I did not see it. I had time, but I did not know it."

As someone who's trying to learn Japanese himself, I feel you're greatly overexaggerating the difficulty in converting Kana to Engrish, Nio. It's very straightforward unless you're really bad at English phonetics and can only really type passably and not speak it.

And converting Engrish to the normal names is very easy if you have a list because they look roughly the same. Just basic pattern matching skills will jump you from Engrish to English.

I mean, I could relate if it was subtleties in grammar and such, but... names? Not seeing the huge issue. Figuring out what this name in kana is supposed to mean is like the easiest part for me, and I can't really see why it wouldn't go the other way as well.

(See, it was necessary-- okay, maybe not)

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sorry my american brain can't tell countries apart

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From: Lopen | #011
It's very straightforward unless you're really bad at English phonetics and can only really type passably and not speak it.

to nip this in the bud, in case anyone doesn't know - nio can speak english verbally very well

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boring and mundane signature
Now with more bold! Less Italics due to bold

Now Nio, I'm going to be pretty blunt here because quite honestly I'm tired.

I don't care what is familiar to you.

I know you aren't 'weeaboo'

I know you're from Malaysia .

I know the majority of this site is not.

I know the majority of this board recognizes the english names only, and the burden should be on the the one of you to make it easier on the mass of us with your saves and not the other way around.

I don't know why this is such a problem for you on an english board.

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If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
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obviously we should all sign a tolerance pledge saying we won't harass any other users for saving characters in their native language

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by the way guys I am from another dimension so my native language may be a bit hard to read for you english speakers

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A) spoilers there are english options available for all names in the first post of every round

B) who the f cares about dip****s on the internet erroneously calling you a weeaboo

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If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
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save Œµ¶¾®Ÿš˜

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I must say that I find this whole thing amusing considering it was raytan of all people who started this contest and ran it for 13 versions.

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If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
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From: FFDragon | Posted: 4/14/2012 5:09:15 AM | #019
I must say that I find this whole thing amusing considering it was raytan of all people who started this contest and ran it for 13 versions.

hah yeah wow this didn't even occur to me


same exact county even, man

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I'm still not seeing it, unless you're saying Japanese has a lot of sounds that are not native to Malay and so you have trouble actually envisioning the sound. Similar to the whole r/l thing Japanese speakers have for English?

Cause I mean, I dunno, when I see a character pronounced "ka" in Japanese I'm not saying "oh that's spelt k-a in English, so it must sound like this" every time I see it. I just say the sound intuitively assuming I know the character, and that sound is the same in either language. And if I see a word in Japanese over and over I will immediately just jump to the Japanese pronunciation eventually rather than converting to English first.

Like I mean I could see there being an issue if you didn't have context, but what other FF major character could "Tida" be, really. If you can recognize him as Tida at a glance I don't know why there's a block between Tida -> Tidus cause that's just pattern matching. The only major FF character I can think of is that is remotely similar to that name in construction is like, Teta from FFT, and she's clearly not in this contest. You've done the hard part by getting to Tida in the first place.

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Well I'm not just talking about pronunciation I'm also talking spelling when I say pattern matching. The letters in the word. Like a lot of them are kinda obvious just by looking at the spelling, if you're romanizing like you seem to be doing.

Like Tidus and Tida both start with T i d so yeah, you should be able to figure out who Tida is just by looking at the save list. No one else's name looks remotely close to that. (Also technically we don't pronounce it Tie-dus in English, it's Tee-dus... but it should be Tie-dus cause that sounds a lot better)

Now for Kuraudo and Cloud, yeah, I could see having some issue with that (more an experience with reading Engrish thing than an experience reading English thing). But I mean, that still just comes down to saying the words aloud and reading into context. Like... why would you be thinking of a type of fish in this context of "major FF characters." They're listed by game-- you look at the list Cloud, Barrett, Tifa, Aeris, Sephiroth, Yuffie, Cid, Vincent, who can Kuraudo realistically be? Cid's the only one that you could make a remote argument for, but Cloud's the one that makes more sense pretty easily.

Further, given that you're probably not saving a huge variety of characters, it isn't unreasonable for you to have just picked up the American spelling of the characters you like by osmosis just from participating in this.

I dunno, I'm just skeptical you're not over exaggerating your difficulty here because you have a large amount of pride in your heritage/I'M NOT AMERICAN and such and want to flaunt that you're using the romanji, or more simply just want to stir things up for no real reason. If I'm wrong, sorry, but that's just the vibe I get, given your past behavior in this contest/on the board.

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Why would you romanize it like that, though? Like what are you romanizing it from? Japanese pronunciation is never ambiguous from the characters. It's a very phonetic language. The kana clearly say Tida there. If it was taidasu the only katakana that would appear in both would be the da. English I'll grant you is not phonetic in the least most of the time, but Japanese is always going to map onto English in the same way.

And why would we have random town NPCs from FFX in the contest and not have Tidus. I mean, really? Come on. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it's probably a duck, not a Chilean Torrent Duckbilled Platypus.

But I'm just saying context has nothing to do with being American-- when I say context I'm saying "look at the character list in the first post of the topic" You don't need to know English to get the context of "a list of names." Like if I like a guy named Abu Hassan in my game and I see a guy listed as Abuhl Hassa in a list of characters I can put two and two together even though that's not a common name in English, just because the name looks similar in composition.

And I'm not saying you're flaunting that you're Malaysian, I'm saying you're flaunting that you're not American. You do it a lot. It's not like... a bad thing that you do, I'm just saying you do it.

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

raytan's English is better than mine because he's from Kuala Lumpur, which is urbanized and Westernized. I'm from some real unknown place in Selangor (and prior to that, Kelantan, which is pretty much Malaysia's version of an extremist Islamic state), which is pretty much.. uh... very steeped in tradition and doesn't get access to Western materials as much.

Your written English is better than raytan's written English (and also better than a lot of the native speakers on the board). If not for conversations like this one, I wouldn't realize that you weren't a native speaker.

Anyway, the way I see it, rule of thumb is to use terms that are familiar to your audience. If I went to a gaming site that was frequented by a lot of people from Asia, and I tried to talk about "Cloud of Darkness" and nobody knew who I was talking about, I'd switch to using the name they all use.


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another place and time, without a great divide, and we could be flying deadly high

This will lead to Cloud of Darkness winning the contest with erotic fanfic involved.

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Dr voltchball - best in the world.

Also who watches the content he uploads on reddevils500a?

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Dr voltchball - best in the world.

Kurayami no Kumo definitely sounds hotter than Cloud of Darkness


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another place and time, without a great divide, and we could be flying deadly high

Nuages des Tenebres

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Dr voltchball - best in the world.

the only issues I have with changing names are

1. end of round rush confusion
2. it's harder to search through for saves to see who's left without an update

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I have a third degree burn in flame-o-nomics -Sir Chris

Nicknames are fine.

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Dr voltchball - best in the world.

I'm gonna go buy me some booze.

FFD better not start the round while I'm away.

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Dr voltchball - best in the world.

Pattern recognition is common among all languages, and extends beyond languages. It's not limited to English. Even a complex writing system like Japanese has plenty of patterns in it. To be very basic, stuff that involves fire or burning and stuff for the most part have the same fire kanji in it, for instance. And taking a look at how Malay works, they apparently have a completely latin alphabet version of the language, which means it's phonetic just like English is, so yeah, this "waah I don't get pattern recognition cause English isn't my native language" thing doesn't really hold up. Patterns exist there just like they do in English, and it's not an excuse.

So, anyway, since you invited me to, yeah, I guess I'll call you an idiot then if you're going to keep at this.

I mean, I know better and know you're just trolling. Especially since you've called plenty of things (including FF characters) by their American name with no problem in other topics. I just think it's a pretty ridiculous form of trolling-- trying to come off as someone who doesn't grasp basic pattern recognition and then playing it like you're the victim. I was hoping that if I argued enough you'd give up the act, because said act is obnoxious to read, but I guess not.

Really, until you start calling your favorite ass man Ashu Kurimuzon it's just not going to fly that you can't wrap your head around this stuff.

(How's this for drama? Am I doing it right.)

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

This is amazing I love you all.

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Sir Chris
The Cult of Personality.

So this is really a thing huh

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"I couldn't stand a day without a past or future. I need to live each moment to keep fighting here and now."

Hey Lopen, watch a 76 ep show.

Ippo's pretty good.

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Dr voltchball - best in the world.

Ippo is good yeah.

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Sir Chris
The Cult of Personality.

Dammit you're all supposed to hate me I just verbally lacerated that poor innocent Niorapth who is just trying to get by in this difficult world of languages and their obtuse formations.

She's 95 lbs how could I be so reckless!

(been thinking hard about Ippo though, seriously-- if I ever go out of my way to watch a series that's gonna be next)

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

Needs more Cops with unibrows




Since 1976!

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Dr voltchball - best in the world.

Is arguing for pages with long walls of text in English really that much easier than typing out a character's name in English? I guess so.

Either that, or it must really be that important what random user who knows nothing about me thinks of me.

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"I couldn't stand a day without a past or future. I need to live each moment to keep fighting here and now."

Hey Leon, tell Eric O'Flaherty to get me some holds and not blow everything.

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Dr voltchball - best in the world.

From: NioraptH | Posted: 4/14/2012 9:30:27 AM | #044
That's how I know Asshu Kurimuzon is Ash Crimson

what, the fact that these are pretty much literally the same with a u added to Ash and the C/S in crimson substituted for K/Z didn't tip you off <_<


maybe it's just cuz I watch anime and hear those kinds of things at least semi-regularly but things like Tida/Tidus and really even Aaron/Auron wouldn't be lost on me. The other two examples you gave though what the hell did the translators do to them

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Uhhh the fact that it can be turned into a latin alphabet tells you that patterns do work. I'm talking about pronunciation here when I say pattern recognition, not necessarily meaning. The fire thing was just an example of how even languages that aren't phonetic have patterns in them too.

I don't need to speak the language to know how languages work. Your whole api apit thing applies to English too. For instance war means a conflict resolved by force and warp means to teleport or distort. OH NO PATTERN RECOGNITION IS BROKEN THEY'RE NOTHING ALIKE. Except they are because they're pronounced somewhat similarly and look similar when they're written, as I'm sure apit and api are.

So yes, I know enough about your language to know that pattern recognition does apply. Now stop being dumb.

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

From: NioraptH | Posted: 4/14/2012 9:36:16 AM | #048
I don't want to be another Denzo, being mercilessly picked apart for being 'different'

but we LOVE you Nio! T_T


also are people seriously flaming you for missing an American thing in spite of knowing you aren't American those guys sound like bastards

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