Board 8 > Doc Ranks the Animated Disney Canon

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Vengeful_KBM
06/15/12 1:39:00 PM
#351:


BrettEagles posted...
Zooey and The Backson are two checks in the plus column for the new Pooh.


She must not sing, then. Else she wouldn't be a plus. >_>
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vcharon
06/15/12 4:09:00 PM
#352:


I mentioned B.E.N. and Carl during my watches of both the films; basically the same, loud and annoying robot from Treasure Planet is transplanted in Meet the Robinsons. Truly horrible, two of the most annoying characters in any Disney film. Maybe the two worst characters even.

I really liked Treasure Planet personally, and it is the best telling of the classic Treasure Island story in my opinion. Silver and Hawkins are both pretty good (the latter reminds of Will Turner a bit, appearances wise only, so that's a plus). The support cast is not very good however, Scroop should have reappeared or had more involvement to give the film some sort of truly evil character. Amelia and Doppler are very eh and the romance thing is sort of flung in there halfheartedly. Bolt and Mittens would make a cuter catdog couple.

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Vengeful_KBM
06/15/12 4:53:00 PM
#353:


vcharon posted...
the best telling of the classic Treasure Island story in my opinion


I would say Muppet Treasure Island whole-heartedly, myself.
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EmDubyaSee
06/15/12 4:59:00 PM
#354:


From: Vengeful_KBM | #353
vcharon posted...
the best telling of the classic Treasure Island story in my opinion


I would say Muppet Treasure Island whole-heartedly, myself.



Literally came here to post the exact same thing.


And it has UNQUESTIONABLY the best telling of Christmas Carrol.

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DoctorBIind
06/15/12 5:03:00 PM
#355:


EmDubyaSee posted...
And it has UNQUESTIONABLY the best telling of Christmas Carrol.


I've never seen The Muppets rendition of Treasure Island, but I absolutely agree with this.
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vcharon
06/15/12 5:04:00 PM
#356:


While they were my childhood heroes, the Muppets generally are not as endearing as traditional animation for me. Visual hang-up, perhaps (feel the same way with classic animation vs. 3D CGI), but I just prefer the storytelling in this instance as well.

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StifledSilence
06/15/12 6:49:00 PM
#357:


Wow. I just finished Treasure Planet and it was amazing. The bonding between Jim and Silver was very touching and really struck a chord with me on a personal level. I agree B.E.N was completely unnecessary but he didn't ruin the movie by any means. Honestly, I found the moose bros in Brother Bear to be more annoying.

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DoctorBIind
06/15/12 7:03:00 PM
#358:


whhaaatt

The moose bros were hilarious
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Vengeful_KBM
06/15/12 11:43:00 PM
#359:


DoctorBIind posted...
EmDubyaSee posted...
And it has UNQUESTIONABLY the best telling of Christmas Carrol.


I've never seen The Muppets rendition of Treasure Island, but I absolutely agree with this.


oh man, you've GOTTA see it.
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BrettEagles
06/16/12 6:46:00 AM
#360:


Hey guys, if you get the chance to see The Lion King on Broadway or off-Broadway, don't miss it. I went to see it last night and it absolutely phenomenal. Mufasa & Scar top tier.

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GenesisSaga
06/16/12 7:27:00 AM
#361:


I saw it off-Broadway when it came to the Civic Center of Atlanta. I'd love to see it on Broadway someday. :)

So great... And if Scar and Mufasa are top tier then Nala must be God(dess) tier because she was just exquisite. I could listen to Shadowlands all day everyday.
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StifledSilence
06/16/12 12:26:00 PM
#362:


So I watched Home on the Range and Chicken Little.

Home on the Range was effing terrible.

But Chicken Little...

Wait for it...

Unpopular opinion incoming...

Was good! I enjoyed it quite a bit. I'm gonna go reread the write ups about it to see what the hate was about.

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DoctorBIind
06/16/12 12:54:00 PM
#363:


Well if it makes you feel any better MWC, it’s getting harder and harder to place these films. These next 10 films were very difficult to place, and could probably be interchanged with each other depending on my mood. This film is essentially the start of a new tier.


#30 – The Rescuers Down Under (1990)

Best Character: McLeach
Worst Character: Frank

The first sequel to join the canon (second if you count The Three Caballeros as a sequel, which I don’t), The Rescuers Down Under is also the first film from the Disney Renaissance to make an appearance on the list. It’s kind of odd in relationship with the other films from the Disney Renaissance, as it’s not a musical or fairy tale, and it’s set in a time and place familiar to us. It opens with a great sequence where the camera travels rapidly through the outback, ultimately coming to a halt when Cody’s house appears. It's probably my favorite opening to a Disney film without an opening song.

To me, this film improves on just about every aspect from the original. It has a more compelling story, is much better animated, has a better villain, a better setting, a more interesting kid, much better side characters, and Bernard is more tolerable.

As much as I disliked Bernard in the first film, I found him to be much less obnoxious here. Maybe it’s because he kept being upstaged by Jake, but he didn’t make me hate him here. He was still an overly cautious and nervous oaf, but his struggle with proposing to Miss Bianca was borderline sweet. It’s still not clear why Miss Bianca is interested in Bernard, but whatever. Miss Bianca doesn’t shine as much in this one as she does in the original, as we see things more from Bernard’s perspective as opposed to both of them as a team. It’s too bad since Miss Bianca is a great character and I wish there were more of her. Due to her relative absence, the honor for best character was up for grabs. I considered Jake, the mouse from the Outback who is better than Bernard at just about everything, for a while, but he really falls off near the end. He has a great introduction, but doesn’t get much more development after that. In fact, most of the mice seem to play second fiddle to the humans in this film.

This movie is a little strange in that despite The Rescuers being in the title, the film does not focus on them as much as it probably should. I’ve already mentioned how I wish Miss Bianca was shown more, and it’s odd how small of a role she had compared to the original. This film placed more focus on the relationship between McLeach and Cody, which was fine, but it needed more Miss Bianca. McLeach was a better villain than I remember, complete with both a cruel side and a humorous side to him. His abusive relationship with Joanna is pretty funny, actually, and a welcome addition after the utter lack of humor in the original. That said, some of the attempts at humor fell flat. Frank, the ridiculously annoying lizard found in captivity at McLeach’s base, is not funny at all. He’s just obnoxious, and I wish every scene with him in it were cut out.

Aside from the characters I also really enjoyed the setting for the film. It was wonderfully animated, and the scene where Cody is soaring on the eagle’s back is exceptionally well done. This was actually the first film to use the computerized CAPS system, allowing for the incredible vistas of the Australian Outback and sleek animation throughout.

Though not quite up to snuff with the rest of the films from the Renaissance, The Rescuers Down Under is one of the rare instances where a sequel is better than the original. It’s brighter, more exciting, and better animated than the original, and I was more invested in the story. Unfortunately this film often gets forgotten among the rest of the Renaissance films, but it’s really an underrated film I wish I could place higher.

Next Up: This film is often considered the best Disney film ever made
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StifledSilence
06/16/12 12:59:00 PM
#364:


As Piglett woul say, oh d-d-d-dear...

Another member of my top ten hath fallen!

As for the next one, people love saying the first is the best. So I'll guess Snow White.

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DoctorBIind
06/16/12 1:01:00 PM
#365:


BrettEagles posted...
Hey guys, if you get the chance to see The Lion King on Broadway or off-Broadway, don't miss it. I went to see it last night and it absolutely phenomenal. Mufasa & Scar top tier.


I've always wanted to. I've been itching to go but last time I checked it wasn't coming to the Northwest any time soon. The closest I've been to seeing it was the performance they put on at The Animal Kingdom, a 30 minute performance titled Festival of the Lion King. It was good, but I'm sure it doesn't compare to the real thing.
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DoctorBIind
06/16/12 1:02:00 PM
#366:


StifledSilence posted...

But Chicken Little...

Wait for it...

Unpopular opinion incoming...

Was good! I enjoyed it quite a bit. I'm gonna go reread the write ups about it to see what the hate was about.


Ugh I just saw this. Stifled how could you!?
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BrettEagles
06/16/12 1:15:00 PM
#367:


From: DoctorBIind | #365
BrettEagles posted...
Hey guys, if you get the chance to see The Lion King on Broadway or off-Broadway, don't miss it. I went to see it last night and it absolutely phenomenal. Mufasa & Scar top tier.


I've always wanted to. I've been itching to go but last time I checked it wasn't coming to the Northwest any time soon. The closest I've been to seeing it was the performance they put on at The Animal Kingdom, a 30 minute performance titled Festival of the Lion King. It was good, but I'm sure it doesn't compare to the real thing.

The Festival of the Lion King is pretty damn awesome. Love that show.

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GenesisSaga
06/16/12 1:15:00 PM
#368:


StifledSilence posted...
So I watched Home on the Range and Chicken Little.

Home on the Range was effing terrible.

But Chicken Little...

Wait for it...

Unpopular opinion incoming...

Was good! I enjoyed it quite a bit. I'm gonna go reread the write ups about it to see what the hate was about.


Disgusting...

I'm antivoting you in the next Save My Save My Disney Character Contest Voters Contest.
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StifledSilence
06/16/12 1:20:00 PM
#369:


lol I'm Stifled! That's how I could. But yeah I read your write up. Here are my thoughts.

I liked Abby and Chicken's romance. She hinted she liked him a few times early in the movie. However it was strange they went from making out during the alien invasion to being all shy about holding hands a year later.

And the thing was his dad was more the dad sucked for acting ashamed and embarrassed by his son. Sure, aliens are tough to believe, but he was super dismissive and sided with the town automatically. Plus he was only around for the good, not the bad. He was ashamed during baseball until Chicken won the game. So yeah crappy father.

The lack of a villain was kinda lame, but I didn't exactly miss it either. It felt like a sitcom to me. With aliens.

I went into the movie expecting fun fluff and that's what I got. Definitely can't take it seriously at all lol

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BrettEagles
06/16/12 1:27:00 PM
#370:


From: DoctorBIind | #363
Next Up: This film is often considered the best Disney film ever made

Definitely going to be Aladdin next.

For the real guess... maybe Pinocchio or Bambi.

Also, I agree completely on the Rescuers DU writeup Doc. Much better than the original, but it still doesn't hold up to the other classics. Good movie though.

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vcharon
06/16/12 1:49:00 PM
#371:


Oh dear... seriously the Lion King or Aladdin up next? ABORT ABORT... I hope it was just a response to the nostalgia crazies and it'll be an older film.

As for TRDU, I agree on all your points. It improves off the original like few sequels do and makes me wish for more proper sequels (that aren't low budget, etc.). Agree with your character opinions here as well, just about 100% of what you said. McLeach might be one of the most unappreciated villains in terms of when the film is released (he's generally forgotten amongst the huge names of the Renaissance period).

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Kotetsu534
06/16/12 1:56:00 PM
#372:


Fantasia or Pinocchio I expect.

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StifledSilence
06/16/12 4:08:00 PM
#373:


I got my copy of Meet the Robinsons from Disney Movie Rewards. I liked that one a lot too. A bit on the predictable side, but still a fantastic movie and very touching in spots.

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Pokewars
06/16/12 4:18:00 PM
#374:


Zero chance it's a Renaissance film. Gotta be Pinocchio.

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GenesisSaga
06/16/12 7:49:00 PM
#375:


It's most definitely either Fantasia or Pinocchio. I'll guess the former.
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PrinceKaro
06/16/12 10:39:00 PM
#376:


The Rescuers Down Under

Doc's Ranking: 30/51
Karo's Ranking: 24/49

The only sequel movie that is part of the Disney canon. As with most sequels, Disney or otherwise, it falls far short of the original. Despite the title, this movie bears little resemblance to the first one, and Miss Bianca and Bernard aren't even really the main characters his time around, as they constantly have to play second fiddle to Cody and Marahute. Our favorite mouse heroes do absolutely nothing of significance to the primary story until the final scene where Bernard eats his spinach and becomes Supermouse. It's like watching two separate movies at once.
The animation is absolutely astounding in the flying scenes with Cody and the eagle, but not so much in most other places. Bernard and Bianca getting the short end of the stick again.
This movie probably has the biggest jerk move in the history of Disney animation in it. After beating the bad guy, our heroes fly straight home on the eagle. But, hey now, aren't you forgetting something? No, I'm not talking about abandoning Wilbur on the cliff (though that wasn't very nice either), I'm talking about forgetting about all the poor animals held captive in McLeach's secret hideout, condemning them to a slow painful death by starvation. Awesome, guys.
All in all Rescuers Down Under is a very funny (though plot hole filled) movie that has some great scenes but ultimately pales in comparison to the original.



Best (new) Character: Wilbur

Wilbur has possibly the funniest moments in Disney history with the hospital scenes. Epidermal Tissue Disruptor, ftw!


Worst (new) Character: Frank

If Jar Jar Binks ever had a son, Frank is what he would be like. That is all.

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EmDubyaSee
06/16/12 10:51:00 PM
#377:


Here are the only films I can think of that can ever be often called that.

Snow White (by idiots, movie should have shown up by now, hope it is next)
Pinocchio (by idiots, move should have shown up by now, hope it is next is not Snow White)
Fantasia (no way it shows up before F2000, even if you DON'T like Fantasia for some weird reason, it is unquestionably better than F2000)
Dumbo. (Could be, maybe should be)
Cinderella (could be, maybe should be)
The Little Mermaid (****ing ABORT if it is this one)
Beauty and the Beast (****ING ABORT LIKE CRAZY if it is this one)
Aladdin (It BETTER not be is all I can say)
The Lion King (No way is it not top 28 on ANYONES list)


Of those, I will guess Pinocchio, but I am really hoping for Snow White

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Vengeful_KBM
06/16/12 10:53:00 PM
#378:


EmDubyaSee posted...
Here are the only films I can think of that can ever be often called that.

Snow White (by idiots, movie should have shown up by now, hope it is next)
Pinocchio (by idiots, move should have shown up by now, hope it is next is not Snow White)


Stopped reading here. Both of these are astoundingly good films.
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Pokewars
06/16/12 11:02:00 PM
#379:


From: EmDubyaSee | #377
The Little Mermaid (****ing ABORT if it is this one)
Beauty and the Beast (****ING ABORT LIKE CRAZY if it is this one)


Don't even have to worry about these showing up. But what's with the Pinitchio hate?

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Pram_the_Oracle
06/16/12 11:04:00 PM
#380:


... Either Snow White or Pinocchio.

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Vengeful_KBM
06/16/12 11:09:00 PM
#381:


(I'm hoping for Dumbo, myself. Cinderella would be acceptable. Pinocchio anywhere outside the Top 5 is a travesty.)
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EmDubyaSee
06/16/12 11:12:00 PM
#382:


From: Pokewars | #379
From: EmDubyaSee | #377
The Little Mermaid (****ing ABORT if it is this one)
Beauty and the Beast (****ING ABORT LIKE CRAZY if it is this one)


Don't even have to worry about these showing up. But what's with the Pinitchio hate?



Well, for the Pinocchio thing, I just believe it is the second worst of the ones I named, (after Snow White), it actually should probably not show up till around 23-20 or so, I spoke too soon on that one.

Snow White however, should have shown up a LONG time ago. So yeah, I really really hope for Snow White next.

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Pokewars
06/17/12 1:34:00 AM
#383:


[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
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Pokewars
06/17/12 1:40:00 AM
#384:


[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
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DoctorBIind
06/17/12 11:10:00 AM
#385:


Probably won't be an update today bump
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vcharon
06/17/12 5:36:00 PM
#386:


I think Fantasia is entirely a probability. I feel about the same towards both films, so I don't think it's much of a stretch that someone would like 2000 more than the original.

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StifledSilence
06/18/12 12:58:00 PM
#387:


Definitely should be an update today bump.

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DoctorBIind
06/18/12 1:12:00 PM
#388:


*raises flame shield*

#29 – Fantasia (1940)

Best Character: Mickey Mouse
Worst Character: Hyacinth Hippo

Fantasia is a classic, and it surely was incredibly innovative for its time. It’s a beautiful film that holds up well even to this day. Fantasia is incredibly creative – to take existing music and add animated interpretations of what the listener might see in their head is incredible. Most of the segments are wonderfully animated, and the accompanying music is sublime. To think that such a film would come out today is beyond strange. Unfortunately I don’t think Disney will take such a risk ever again. During its time it was a box office failure but has since become one of the most beloved films in the Disney canon. I don’t share this feeling, but I can’t ignore the impact it had on films today, nor the beauty derived from the segments, nor the creativity and imagination used to create them.

This film contains eight segments, some of which are extraordinary, and others that are very boring. It’s thus difficult to place Fantasia on this list, as while it does contain some phenomenal segments, a few of the others dragged on for much too long. Fantasia runs for just over two hours, and frankly is one of the biggest reasons I’ve ranked it relatively low. While this means that the good segments are give plenty of screen time, it also means that the worst segments are also given plenty of screen time. It was during these segments that I found myself drifting off or impatiently awaiting the end of the segment.

I typically don’t like abstract segments devoid of plot. While I can appreciate the imagination it took to simply animate characters and the environment based off of a piece of music, it’s just not enjoyable for me to watch. Segments such as Toccata and Fugue in D Minor and even the intermission were very boring. The former in particular dragged on for much, much too long. To have such a film open Fantasia immediately had me worrying the rest of the film would follow suit.

Thankfully it doesn’t, and it’s instead filled with a few gems. The Sorcerer’s Apprentice is of course the most well-known and beloved of the segments, and for good reason. It’s a beautifully animated story about Mickey Mouse serving as an apprentice to Yen Sid, the sorcerer. Mickey attempts to take a shortcut through his chores by using magic he can’t yet control, and things quickly get out of hand. I wish this were longer, as it’s one of my favorite animated shorts of all time and because I honestly believe it could hold its own as an expanded feature length film.

Night on Bald Mountain is my next favorite, and it’s an exceptional close to the film. It again is wonderfully animated, and there is clear tension between the characters. Chernabog summons evil spirits at night and they proceed to dance and fly though the air until dawn approaches to send them back. It’s an interesting segment for sure, and visually it’s stunning.

The only other segment that I enjoyed was The Pastoral Symphony. It contains a number of mythological creatures, each with their own story. My favorite of which was the one about the centaurs, but I found the cupids to be creepy. Nevertheless it was a sweet segment about love. I also enjoyed the portion with Zeus and Bacchus, the god of wine, but not as much as I did the portion with the focus on the centaurs. The rest of the segments were largely forgettable and honestly kind of boring. Hyacinth Hippo earns the status of worst character not because she’s an awful character by any means, only because she took the lead in an exceptionally boring segment titled Dance of the Hours.

Ultimately Fantasia is a film that I can respect and appreciate, but not one that I can necessarily sit down and enjoy watching. A few of the segments, sure, but I don’t want to sit through a two hour film where I’m subjected to segments like Tocatta and Fugue in D Minor.

Next Up: This film employed the use of watercolors in its design
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PrinceKaro
06/18/12 1:20:00 PM
#389:


I think you forgot a '2000' after the title there, Doc. -_-


Fantasia

Doc's Ranking: 29/51
Karo's Ranking 16/49

Fantasia is a difficult movie to rate, with its focus on artistry rather than plot. Although it is one of the most beautiful works of animation every created, it can only get so far on that alone. So, it is placed here. Fantasia is made up of many different segments, which are detailed below:


Toccata and Fugue in D Minor:

The only really unremarkable segment in Fantasia. By the time you get through the part with the cheapass orchestra silhouettes lit by glowy lights, and get to the part that is, y'know, real art, one has already lost interest in the scene.


Nutcracker Suite:

There are a bunch of different parts to this scene, most of which feature dancing by fairies or anthropomorphized elements of nature. This is one of the better segments, and probably the most artsy.


The Sorcerer's Apprentice:

Probably the most overrated of the Fantasia segments, I've never really seen what was so great about it. It's basically just a Mickey Mouse short set to music, and it is missing a lot of the artistry that most of the other segments have.


The Rite of Spring:

Aka the dinosaur scene. I believe that this is the first realistic portrayal of dinosaurs in animation (though I could be wrong about that). The highlight of this segment is the T-Rex/Stegosaurus battle.
A good scene, but it seems to drag on a bit with the excessively slow pacing.


The Pastoral Symphony:

One of my favorite scenes in the film. An assortment of mythological creatures frolic in a 'Hercules'-esque world. This segment was also the subject of controversy due to the black servant centaur 'Sunflower' (who has been digitally deleted from all recent releases of the film).


Dance of the Hours:

For this rather humorous segment, they decided to take four of the most ungraceful animals imaginable and have them all dance ballet. Hilarity ensues.


Night on Bald Mountain:

The grand finale, and probably one of the darkest things Disney has ever done. The demon Chernabog (not Satan, as is often incorrectly believed) calls all manner of evil creatures to a gathering on top of the mountain. Interestingly, this movie gets a G rating despite the bare breasted harpies in this scene (which, unlike the centaurettes, shockingly have nipples).
The one thing that prevents this segment from becoming perfect is the completely and utterly unnecessary addition of the 'Ave Maria' scenes onto the end. We have the perfect place to end the movie after Chernabog goes to sleep and the camera pans out to a wide shot of Bald Mountain. But no, we have to endure the boring and anticlimactic scenes of a bunch of stupid monks/priests/druids (or whatever the hell they are supposed to be) marching pointlessly with agonizing slowness. Really, what the f*** were you thinking?

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StifledSilence
06/18/12 1:39:00 PM
#390:


Kudos for it being Fantasia. I was worried you might have it in your top ten or something.

Now we've just gotta get rid of Fantasia 2000!

Personally, I don't like either of them that much.

As for the next one, I'm gonna go with Princess and the Frog. Some of the Tiana's diner fantasy scenes appeared to have watercolor themes going on.

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GenesisSaga
06/18/12 2:55:00 PM
#391:


Aw yeah, my guess was right!

Watercolor huh?

I guess The Rescuers! Oh wait...

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GenesisSaga
06/18/12 2:59:00 PM
#392:


Sadly, I think it might be Mulan.

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Vengeful_KBM
06/18/12 3:32:00 PM
#393:


Night on Bald Mountain/Ave Maria IS perfect, dammit! I love the Ave Maria section, personally - beauty in simplicity. But to each their own.

Thank God it wasn't Pinocchio or Snow White.
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BrettEagles
06/18/12 4:20:00 PM
#394:


I might bein the minority, but overall Fantasia 2000 > Fantasia. I love 2000's Rhapsody in Blue segment.

As for the next one, definitely Aladdin. He was totally underwater at one point and the water was colored.

Honest guess, DISASTER is incoming. I hope it's not Lilo & Stitch.

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GenesisSaga
06/18/12 4:21:00 PM
#395:


I also like 2000 more than the original

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GenesisSaga
06/18/12 6:09:00 PM
#396:


More guesses bump maybe?

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StifledSilence
06/18/12 6:51:00 PM
#397:


I like 2000 better because it's mercifully shorter. Two hours was torture for the first one. Plus Steadfast Toy Soldier owns hard.

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AdmiralZephyr
06/18/12 6:53:00 PM
#398:


How is Fantasia out but 2000 still in?

And is Atlantis really still in this?

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vcharon
06/18/12 7:02:00 PM
#399:


The thing about Fantasia is that the focus is more on music. I can appreciate the "art" behind the animation along with the music, but I'm a story guy. I need a plot to interest me, so all but a few of the Fantasia segments bore me a bit (I can't watch plotless animation for 10+ minutes, no matter what type of music is playing).

I do enjoy some good classical music, but generally music is something I play in the background while I am doing something else. With Fantasia, you can't really do that since you are supposed to be watching the screen as well as listening to the music.

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Kotetsu534
06/18/12 7:27:00 PM
#400:


Ah damn. 28 spots too low.

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