Board 8 > watching Avatar: The Legend of Korra - Long Live the Queen [spoilers]

(+) Yeah! (+)

If that 1% is the case then that just means 99% of earthbenders haven't trained in metal bending. Which makes sense, seems like an upper class thing to do. But obviously not all of Kuvira's army is metal benders.
---

what hotheaded decisions did she make in season4 tho?
---

CoolCly posted...

Sokka vs Bolin!

Oh man, Bolin... that dude is just no Sokka. I dunno, it feels transparently obvious that they were looking to exploit a similar character in terms of tone to Sokka - someone a little bumbling, less physically badass, very girl-crazy, and suitable for comic relief as an occasional buttmonkey.

Here's one of the problems: Sokka isn't very good in Season 1. It takes Sokka about eighteen episodes to become pretty likable, and then half a dozen more after that to become super-likable and one of the best parts of TLA. And by the way, this is with him right under center, as one of the three main characters.

You can probably see where this is going. Bolin doesn't even have a chance against that. He starts off a little more promising, being older and slightly more mature than Sokka. And the love triangle is a reasonable opening angle. The issue is, the attention is split among far more characters to start with in Season 1 of Korra, which is only twelve episodes - and then Season 2 turns him into Eska's buttmonkey and Varrick's tool. All the while, Bumi, Kya, and Tenzin become more interesting characters. Even Mako gets to have more meaningful connections than Bolin in Season 2. In short, Bolin never gets to kick his feet and make a season his own. Is it any wonder that his final fights in Seasons 3 and 4 feel empty?

One of the most important qualities that Bolin lacks: Sokka is actually the smartest member of his group. It's what so nicely enables his pessimistic sarcasm - because he's always contributing to the big picture. Meanwhile, Bolin... is kind of just an idiot.
---

I feel like Bolin gets dumber and dumber as the series went on too. Some of his ideas near the end were pretty out there.
---

at least he's a pretty good Bender
---

I'm not sure that being a good Bender makes it better - increasing plot importance without improving the cahracter isn't great!
---

will archive
---

Have you ever played Diablo 3?

Each class has two variants, a male or female, with full voice acting. A lot of them are really good, like the Male Wizard is voiced by Crispin Freeman, and he's excellent as always. But by far my favourite is the Female Wizard.

Here is some art for her

http://cdn.wallpapersafari.com/86/85/Wd7T1Y.jpg
https://c.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Diablo-3-wizard.jpg
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/diablo/images/d/d3/Portrait_Wizard_Female.png/revision/latest?cb=20140625120854
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/54/26/2c/54262c670a72a31708d42e3485c6d593.jpg

Guess who she's voiced by? It's Grey DeLisle, voice of Azula! And she plays the role extremely similarly. She's visually very similar, and her background is kind of the same - an arrogant prodigy who uses magic to wreack havoc. Her abilities are often not fire coloured, but behave the same - beams and blasts of energy etc.

Most playthroughs I play as her, and I like to think I'm playing a Chaotic Good, or maybe Chaotic Neutral version of Azula. Their personalities are very similar - the female wizard's comments are often about talking down to whoever you just destroyed and bragging bout how much better she is than everyone. She's *slightly* altruistic, but not nearly as much as most of the other Diablo 3 characters.

I really just love it.


For the last couple months I've began playing Heroes of the Storm, and to my glee they have brought the female version of the wizard into the game as Li-Ming. She's my favourite hero to play and my most played by far. Now I get to play as Azula EVERY DAY.


But it gets better! Normally you should purple coloured Arcane Missiles or what have you - but they released a new skin that's fire based!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLHfcb4iLZc

IM ACTUALLY FIREBENDING THIS IS INCREDIBLE

ALL HAIL FIRELORD AZULA
---

That's neat. Azula's fire itself also isn't really flame-y. (Though no, I haven't played Diablo 3). (Also, that was an enjoyable bump!)

For the interested, I'll post my Top 20 TLA episodes later. I think I have the twenty; just need to organize them.

I haven't come up with a comparable list of TLoK episodes, but I can probably come up with 10-15, too.
---

ranking almost complete!
---

alright, mainly doing this for myself i guess. rankings have shifted even while doing writeups!

15. Bitter Work (2x09)

This is the Toph-training-Aang (and Iroh-training-Zuko-on-lightning-redirection) episode. Toph is always awesome, but the best part of this episode is almost certainly Sokka getting randomly stuck in a crevasse and promising to give up both meat and sarcasm - practically his whole identity.

14. The Western Air Temple (3x12)

In general, the episodes with Zuko as agood guy are just awesome. Sparky Sparky Boom Man is pretty lame, but Sokka taking him out is cool, and Zuko finally earning people's trust (minus Katara) is really enjoyable as a long-time fan.

13. The Beach (3x05)

Aside from being fun to watch Azula try (and fail miserably) to be a normal person, I love this episode for its campfire scene most. Zuko has everything he's ever wanted - but he's angrier than ever before. The articulation of this is magnificent. The goofy Fire Nation bros are also a positive.

12. The Cave of Two Lovers (2x02)

I died like five times laughing at the minor character who guides Sokka through the cave. There's a throwaway cut of Appa getting absolutely pelted by the Fire Nation which is hysterical, too. Add in badger-moles and funky art for the past - how can we not love it? This was the first episode that floored me laughing - it's one of the funniest of the series IMO.

11. The Puppetmaster (3x08)

Bloodbending is seriously creepy as f***. This is the only truly depiction of an evil member of the Water Tribe (as opposed to just being a jerk like in the North). Yet Hama is a victim of the war. An incredible display of the costs of war, Southern Water Tribe Waterbending mythos, and general creepiness.
---

Why is your forehead all red?
*sokka facepalms*

Yesss love for the Beach. One of my favourites, but a lot of people don't seem to like it nearly as much. I looooove the campfire scene. It's obviously all about Zuko, but it was nice to see the reflections from Azula's gang too.
---

You had to be there, knowing it was the final season, wanting epic stuff to happen, and being treated with a freaking beach episode.

It's a good episode yes, but Book 3 has way too much filler.

I mean as someone who was there in that situation... I disagree completely. The Beach is top 10 for me.

But to each their own.
---

I was on the fence. I liked the episode, but I didn't like how the writers were basically stalling the plot till the day of black sun.

After season 2 and its tight plot, going back to episodic pace felt weird.

There wasn't much 'plot' to be told, but plenty of story. I neglected to mention a bunch of other fun episodes in this list, but for example, The Runaway was a really good one, too.

I think the time at the beginning of the season was absolutely necessary for Zuko to stew in his own juices at the beginning of Season 3.

Also, most of the plot-driven stuff that characterizes the last 5 or so episodes of Season 2 weren't that good. The chakra episode was just off and included one of the least funny episode-long running gags ever (Aang's banana tea or whatever it was).
---

The Beach is my #1 episode and I was watching live.
---

10. The Ember Island Players (3x17)

Another one of the funniest episodes. Love all the in-jokes and love how the characters react to their on-stage depictions. It's somewhat surprising that there are legit consequences/character development here!

9. Crossroads of Destiny (2x20)

A few decent fights, Iroh being a badass, and a truly magnificent heel turn from Zuko. Brought down by the lame way the Avatar State hype gets quashed, but a cataclysmic, unexpected end to the Earth Kingdom arc.

8. The Chase (2x08)

Some steam engine prevents Team Avatar from sleeping, which puts major strain on their relationships, especially between Toph and Katara. Turns out it's AZULA b****ES, and she's been tracking them based on Appa... the episode winds up with a giant confrontation between the entire gang - including Zuko! - and Azula, who escapes by sneak-attacking Iroh. Love everything about this episode except possibly the ending where she gets that bulls*** escape. The sleep deprivation angle cranks up the tension so much.

7. The Day of Black Sun, Parts 1 and 2 (3x10-11)

The first half just super-good, consistent action throughout, along with the buildup you expect in a finale type of episode. The second half has Trollzula and Ozai and the Zuko face turn.

6. Boiling Rock, Parts 1 and 2 (3x14-15)

Zuko/Sokka is the absolute dream team here. Feels like a legitimate payoff to Sokka's understated daddy issues subplot, and an ultimate vindication of him as a character overall. The odds feel really stacked against the good guys and the Warden is a hilariously great one-off villain. Mai and Ty Lee betraying Azula is also awesome.
---

wait holy s*** my mind is blown AUBREY PLAZA VOICES ESKA???

also i had no idea that jk simmons was the voice of tenzin, either
---

I understand not hearing JK Simmons but how could you not hear Aubrey Plaza instantly?!
---

i thought she was just intentionally similar to aubrey plaza and that the character just happened to be inspired by her <___<
---

LOL

I remember saying not every one is on board with Aubrey Plaza humour when you didnt like Eska at first, and you replied saying you actually do like Aubrey Plaza

It's hilarious that you managed to not realize she's Aubrey Plaza in that exchange
.
---

I got that it was Aubrey Plaza humor! Just not...

... Never mind, I don't think this one is coming out well for me.
---

My Immortal posted...

I understand not hearing JK Simmons but how could you not hear Aubrey Plaza instantly?!

I would say literally the opposite thing you said.

Every time Tenzin opened his mouth I expected him to demand Korra get him pictures of Spider-Man.
---

5. The Firebending Masters (3x13)

The first full Zuko as a good guy episode, and it's probably the best one. He and Aang have a hilarious buddy-cop dynamic that's just completely silly. It looked like it was going to be a bit of a drag, but the ending sequence with the Dance of the Dragons was one of the single greatest moments of the show's run.

4. City of Walls and Secrets (2x14)

I'm still bitter about the way that the political intrigue in Ba Sing Se gets wrapped up, but holy s*** this is good. A look at a secret police-controlled society, with a thoroughly creepy Joo Dee being seamlessly replaced at the end of the episode.

3. The Blind Bandit (2x06)

THE BOULDER and THE BLIND BANDIT are in charge of explaining why this episode ROCKS.

2. Tales of Ba Sing Se (2x15)

I think I mostly covered this episode during the watchthrough, but my god this episode is just so delightful. I love slice of life stuff and the vignette style works out perfectly for everyone involved, with the sole possible exception of Aang.

1. Sozin's Comet, Parts 2, 3, and 4

I believe Part 1 is the Lion Turtle crap. But this part covers Aang versus Ozai (hnnng), Azula's downfall, Toph/Sokka/Suki rescuing the Fire Nation, and Zuko and Iroh's reunion. It's an unconditionally successful climax and conclusion to the series.
---

SeabassDebeste posted...

1. Sozin's Comet, Parts 2, 3, and 4

I believe Part 1 is the Lion Turtle crap.

And how would it affect your ranking if I told you the Lion Turtle stuff isn't in Part 1?
---

THE BOULDER FEELS CONFLICTED ABOUT NOT BEING THE TOP 1!

good ratings though.
---

SeabassDebeste posted...

6. Boiling Rock, Parts 1 and 2 (3x14-15)

Zuko/Sokka is the absolute dream team here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vr9xPqGD8o
---

that has to be the 'that's rough buddy' scene, right?

*click*

yesss
---

one for the archive
---

argh
---

Definitely good collection of episodes there.

The entire Blind Bandit is pretty decent, but the finale where she takes on all of the earthbenders is one of my favourite fights in the series. Soooo good.
---

toph was too good. the way she uses her feet in her earthbending was probably the single coolest bending technique out of anyone, in terms of visual appeal.
---

my approximate top ten korra episodes:

The Metal Clan (3x05)
Welcome to Republic City / A Leaf in the Wind (1x01-02)
Civil Wars Part 1 (2x03)
The Coronation (4x03)
The Sting (2x06)
The Spirit of Competition (1x05)
Endgame (1x12)
Peacekeepers (2x05)
Night of a Thousand Stars/Harmonic Convergence (2x11-12)
The Last Stand (4x13)
The Ultimatum (3x11)
---

I have a hard time remembering individual Korra episodes.

The overall plot is less episodic.

Yeah. I'd say after having seen both shows that that is hugely to Korra's disadvantage - episodes have less of their own identity.

I think 3x05, 1x01-02, 2x06, 1x05, and 1x12 are fairly standalone of my list. Less so the other ones.
---

how do you feel about the trend in the last 5 or so years of being very negative towards episode shows?

I see this a lot in TV discussions where someone will bring up something like Person of Interest, which every episode involves the main characters getting a social security number of someone that's going to be involved in a violent crime (victim or perpetrator). Then someone says "oh, I'm really not into episodic shows. I prefer serialized stuff like Breaking Bad."

I think what's happening here is that they see a show with excellent long running storylines and characters that they enjoyed, and assumed that it's because they are a more serialized format. But a serialized format doesn't mean better growth. It can mean it's a bit more likely to have good growth, since lower quality procedurals just do their case of the week with no growth, but serials can be bad too. You can have serialized shows with excellent growth, you can have serialized shows with poor growth. You can have episodic procedurals with excellent growth, and you can have episodic procedurals with poor growth. You aren't going to get Breaking Bad in every serialized format, and an episodic format show can be just as good as BB too.


Buffy and Angel for example are incredibly episodic. They typically have a monster of the week, but that does not stop them from building up story arcs or themes, or growing character development.

TLA is episodic compared to Korra's serlalized nature... yet it had a better long term plot and character development.

I think people are making a mistake when they make this distinction.
---

I think a lot of people define episodic shows to have no growth because that allows you to just skip episodes. So it comes from a misunderstanding of what episodic means.
---

Depends on the story. A lot of the time you have shows that start with a great pilot, then forget about the main plot for 15 episodes because the network demans a 26 episode season and there is not enough plot for it. It leaves a sour taste. An most of the time it's some police procedural or a format we have seen a million times already, so it's just boring.

That said, some shows (particulary older ones), are built for the episodic format, because they have something interesting that is worth following with different stories. But nowadays it seems producers want to have a thrilling, Breaking Bad-like plot with a unrealistic number of episodes. They want to have their cake and eat it.

On the other side of the coin, we have stories that keep forcing the searialized plot too for 5 seasons even though there wasn't enough plot for it in the first place too, and episodic might have been better.

The solution is to only make the number of episodes your story can actually handle. Which is why I like Netflix.

Episodic shows necessarily are just wayyyy longer and fluffier. Like when you use Buffy as an example you should get the idea. They can have great arcs and character development, but there's gonna be a bunch of crap that you have to get through as well. If you don't like that crap, then it's gonna suck. Even if you do like that crap, it's gonna be less tight.

ATLA is legendary BECAUSE of how strongly serialized it is while still retaining its episodic feel that makes it perfect for syndicated cartoon broadcast. The writing is just constantly working at so many scales - second to second, scene to scene, episode to episode, season to season - that it's completely captivating and efficient for serialized viewing, but also understandable to any first time viewer. What other episodic shows do that?
---

Well, I feel like my point of view on episodic stuff is pretty transparent, based on my favorite episodes list, right? I mean, my #2 episode is Tales of Ba Sing Se! I also addressed it in a recent thread about LOST.

I think both episodic shows with long-forming story arcs and constant action/story-churner shows have their place. Like you said, it's all in the execution, and I think many episodes deserve to be viewed in their own right as opposed to checking off boxes of 'did they advance the storyline? How about did they advance it in the way I wanted?' So count me hard against anyone who's 'anti-episodic' or 'anti-filler' by definition. (To me, filler means non-canon stuff added to an adaptation, not any scene that doesn't seem to advance the storyline.)

That's not to say there aren't stories that can't be better told when they're laser-focused on advancement. A lot of time things are about expectations, though. Some of the most satisfying story advancements happen when I don't expect them because I've been lulled into a sense of 'case of the week' idleness. In stories where character development is important, the non-main-arc episodes often can flesh out relationships and establish the status quo that's being disrupted. Even on a ridiculously serial like 24, the fact that we see the hour-to-hour operations of CTU is what increases the pathos when it inevitably gets attacked. (Admittedly, this can also be hilariously weak in this show.)

It's hard to boil it down to one criterion, but for dramatic shows with story arcs, the most important point of tension (aside from pure entertainment value) might be 'How often does/how willingly will the show mix up the status quo?' TLA gives us constant growth in characters' bending ability, the villains pursuing Team Avatar, Zuko's relationship with Iroh, and the state of the War of the Earth Kingdom. Toph joins the party halfway into the series (!!) and makes the show a dozen times better. Buffy and Angel have one-offs, but they're unafraid to mess with relationships, kill off characters, and nuke the set en route to different worlds.

It can often result in some bad one-off episodes and ill-conceived characters (Gavin and Linwood on Angel S4 were awful). But I think there's something great about the TV show where you can seem to spin your wheels for half a season and then just take off. LOST Season 3 has a miserable first few and an insane run to end it. 24 Season 8 is rote for about half the season and then the best the show has ever been during the second half. Angel Season 5 is amazing throughout, but it follows a terrible season. The way the tone of the show can shift as writers adapt and push themselves is really fun, and you don't really get that with heavily auteur-controlled shows like Mad Men, or one-off anthologies like True Detective.
---

I think that just ends up feeling sloppy though. Like you just have to appreciate the sheer craftsmanship of a tightly authored season, like you're witnessing an artifact of heaven that could not possibly be created by humans. With a badly paced episodic series, it feels like you're sitting in the writers room watching them shoot the s*** with each other and occasionally stumble upon good ideas. Which I guess can be fun in its own way.
---

I agree its all execution, and Korra is an example of execution of serialized format done wrong. It badly needed more episodes to develop those supporting characters. Of course, the show still ended up being good overall, due to the skill of the writers in spite of Nick trying to sabotage them at every turn.

But overall, I think it's easier to make high quality shows with serial format than episodic. They allow for more complex plots and better tension. And nowadays, I have a hard time liking episodic stuff after already seeing the light. Watching something like Flash after seeing serialized shows like Daredevil and Agents of Shield is underwhelming.

ATLA feels more like an exception than otherwise.

Oh is Daredevil serial? I've been watching Flash and I like the characters and stories and everything but I reallyyyy wish it was just half as long. I figured all super hero shows were like that.
---

They hit different parts of me, I think. A show like Breaking Bad tells an amazing, specific story. Long-running shows tend become stories about family due to the familiarity that you develop with the cast.

LoK's issue (versus TLA), perhaps even moreso than the supporting characters, was the fact that the seasons were sooooo self-contained. It's super-serial for twelve episodes, and then BOOM everything's tied up into a neat little bow with a 'check this out, there's a hook for next season!' comment. Season 4's ending feels like this, even - only Season 1 felt like a real series ending.

The writers were quite good, but it's not Nick's fault that Unalaq was straight garb. (And the montage episode in S4 is actually really good - it's one of the examples of imposed constraints forcing creative solutions! I don't know if there was a budget constraint on 'Fly' from Breaking Bad but it's also awesome.)
---

foolm0r0n posted...

Oh is Daredevil serial? I've been watching Flash and I like the characters and stories and everything but I reallyyyy wish it was just half as long. I figured all super hero shows were like that.

All the Marvel Netflix shows are serial
---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-edE_IJoHH0&feature=youtu.be

(spoilers for Rogue One)
---

foolm0r0n posted...

Oh is Daredevil serial? I've been watching Flash and I like the characters and stories and everything but I reallyyyy wish it was just half as long. I figured all super hero shows were like that.

Yes and season 1 is the best super hero show ever made. I'm not exaggerating.

And it's extremely serial. 13 episodes with a very tight plot. Though they drop the ball a little on season 2 (but it's still good overall).

Actually all Marvel Nextlix shows follow the same format.