Current Events > America is regressing into a third world country for most people

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.ineteconomics.org/perspectives/blog/america-is-regressing-into-a-developing-nation-for-most-people
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What are your thoughts on the article?
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Bump.

Pretty sad read, but everyone should read it. We need to start thinking of solutions. We shouldn't live in a world where tens of millions of people in the wealthiest country in history are in abject poverty, while some large corporations that provide nothing of value are raking in billions of dollars.

I'm all for capitalism but there's gotta be some kind of change here. This is not sustainable. :/
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DNC shoulda let Bernie win
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Psycho_Poodle posted...

DNC shoulda let Bernie win

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BallerXRosetta- posted...

Psycho_Poodle posted...

DNC shoulda let Bernie win

>Implying the DNC isn't just a corrupt shell of what it pretends to be.
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my thoughts:

globalization is sending jobs to other countries, middle class and poor suffer, rich get richer.
Its part of neoliberalism as well. (neoliberalism and neoconservativism go beyond just "conservatives vs liberals").

people in the 1950s were better off (in some ways). the gap between rich and poor is growing. middle class is dying.




here are some statistics:

45 million live in poverity
98 million are low-income
1 in 5 kids in poverity

1% owns 43% percent of wealth
5% owns 72% percent of wealth

1/3 native americans are in poverty
1/4 African Americans
1/4 Hispanics
1/10 Asians
1/10 Europeans
1 in 9 us homes are vacant.
(kairos center)
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meingott posted...

Bump.

Pretty sad read, but everyone should read it. We need to start thinking of solutions. We shouldn't live in a world where tens of millions of people in the wealthiest country in history are in abject poverty, while some large corporations that provide nothing of value are raking in billions of dollars.

I'm all for capitalism but there's gotta be some kind of change here. This is not sustainable. :/

So true brother. Capitalism IS an incredibly useful way to structure our economy, but it's constantly being co-opted by greed and a lack of empathy for our fellow man.
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Psycho_Poodle posted...

DNC shoulda let Bernie win

Now we can ALL be poor!
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its only worse from here out
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FL81 posted...

Psycho_Poodle posted...

DNC shoulda let Bernie win

Now we can ALL be poor!

Yeah look how poor and decrepit Scandinavia is
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This is why we, the proletariat, need to take back our country from our evil corporate slave masters!
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The solution is to start holding politicians accountable. Take Chicago. Some neighborhoods that are violent and on the verge of collapsing...have no shortage of property taxes and income taxes funneling into the city. So where does all that money go? I'm looking at the CPS system as a great example of some shady shit going on. We need to find out where the corruption is and then bring back the guillotine.
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ASithLord7 posted...

FL81 posted...

Psycho_Poodle posted...

DNC shoulda let Bernie win

Now we can ALL be poor!

Yeah look how poor and decrepit Scandinavia is

None of those countries are actually implementing socialism. They're actually quite capitalistic. They're high on the economic freedom index and they're all heavily invested in the global economy.
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>"It's not true Socialism"
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BallerXRosetta- posted...

>"It's not true Socialism"

They're not. Venezuela is a better example of socialism than Norway/Sweden/Denmark/etc.
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Yeah, but that doesn't mean anything.

"We should be more like Scandinavia."

"Haha, not true socialism."

Name is irrelevant lol
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meingott posted...

ASithLord7 posted...

FL81 posted...

Psycho_Poodle posted...

DNC shoulda let Bernie win

Now we can ALL be poor!

Yeah look how poor and decrepit Scandinavia is

None of those countries are actually implementing socialism. They're actually quite capitalistic. They're high on the economic freedom index and they're all heavily invested in the global economy.

Right they're social democracies, which is in line with what Sanders supported. He's definitely not an actual Socialist despite calling himself that.

They've got a good thing going on there for the most part that we could learn from.
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meingott posted...

Bump.

Pretty sad read, but everyone should read it. We need to start thinking of solutions. We shouldn't live in a world where tens of millions of people in the wealthiest country in history are in abject poverty, while some large corporations that provide nothing of value are raking in billions of dollars.

I'm all for capitalism but there's gotta be some kind of change here. This is not sustainable. :/

The current system is not capitalism. Well, maybe you could call it crony capitalism. The government in our country bails out banks, subsidizes private companies, gives tax breaks to certain companies, regulates too much for small businesses to keep up with, etc. The economy/market in the US is very much manipulated by the government, giving "the elite" an edge over everyone else.

I'm not trying to start an argument, I promise. But yesterday you said it's on poor people to make better decisions, and stop having kids they can't afford and taking your tax money. That the childless and single shouldn't have to support those who choose to have children.

So if you're not interested in giving a little of yours to help the many, I don't know if there's much hope for corporations...or even politicians who are often pretty much bought out. There's a lot of poverty out there but almost all of us think the sacrifice should come from somewhere else. Again that's not you insult you. I'm sure we all feel we're stretched to our limits right now
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meingott posted...

They're not. Venezuela is a better example of socialism than Norway/Sweden/Denmark/etc.

While that's true, Venezuela's problems run deeper than socialism and are largely the result of a dictatorship and reliance on low-quality oil. Blaming socialism for that is like blaming capitalism for everything wrong with the USA, it's true that many of our problems stem from it but it's not like it couldn't have been kept in check and held accountable.

ASithLord7 posted...

meingott posted...

ASithLord7 posted...

FL81 posted...

Psycho_Poodle posted...

DNC shoulda let Bernie win

Now we can ALL be poor!

Yeah look how poor and decrepit Scandinavia is

None of those countries are actually implementing socialism. They're actually quite capitalistic. They're high on the economic freedom index and they're all heavily invested in the global economy.

Right they're social democracies, which is in line with what Sanders supported. He's definitely not an actual Socialist despite calling himself that.

They've got a good thing going on there for the most part that we could learn from.

They do have a good thing going on there. But it isn't for the reasons you think.

1) They have a small population, so their tax dollars stretch much farther and have deeper effects.

2) They have a homogenous population, which means less conflict and crime due to racial or cultural disputes.

3) They are heavily invested into an economy that exists only because America is not like those countries. IE America has been the engine of prosperity for every country on earth, almost to a detriment to itself.

The best things we could learn from them are...to limit our population growth, to be very picky about who we let into the country, to prioritize true education (and not just some shitty government funded scheme to get degrees, as if degrees mean people are educated and productive), etc.

What people see in those countries is "if we can tax people more, everything will be okay!" But that's not the case. It's nowhere near that simple.

By the way, I think it was...Denmark's (or was it Sweden's) prime minister who flat out rejected what Bernie said about their country being a "democratic socialist" country. That conception was popularized in America, but it's not actually true. Those countries are more capitalistic than they are socialist.
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That_Happened posted...

I'm not trying to start an argument, I promise. But yesterday you said it's on poor people to make better decisions, and stop having kids they can't afford and taking your tax money. That the childless and single shouldn't have to support those who choose to have children.

So if you're not interested in giving a little of yours to help the many, I don't know if there's much hope for corporations...or even politicians who are often pretty much bought out. There's a lot of poverty out there but almost all of us think the sacrifice should come from somewhere else. Again that's not you insult you. I'm sure we all feel we're stretched to our limits right now

Nothing I said yesterday contradicts anything I'm saying today. You can maintain that people not have kids they can't afford, that people reduce their impact on public services, etc, and still maintain that we need to find solutions for these problems.

Last year I contributed around $20,000 to the pot and this year I'll have contributed around $30,000 to the pot. That's a lot more than "giving a little of yours" bro.
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meingott posted...

By the way, I think it was...Denmark's (or was it Sweden's) prime minister who flat out rejected what Bernie said about their country being a "democratic socialist" country. That conception was popularized in America, but it's not actually true. Those countries are more capitalistic than they are socialist.

Denmark

"I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy."
Rasmussen acknowledged that "the Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security to its citizens," but he also noted that it is "a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish."
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KarmaMuffin posted...

meingott posted...

They're not. Venezuela is a better example of socialism than Norway/Sweden/Denmark/etc.

While that's true, Venezuela's problems run deeper than socialism and are largely the result of a dictatorship and reliance on low-quality oil. Blaming socialism for that is like blaming capitalism for everything wrong with the USA, it's true that many of our problems stem from it but it's not like it couldn't have been kept in check and held accountable.

This is a common talking point that is demonstrably false. Venezuela did suffer because of oil, but they've been adopting socialistic practices for over a decade now. With the results getting worse and worse over the years. They've been nationalizing many things, not just their oil. Long story short, socialism is to blame for what's happening there. Their government is literally an example of what happens when you seize the means of production, try to redistribute wealth, etc. And many of the people there voted for Chavez under those pretenses. For years.
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Bullet_Wing posted...

That_Happened posted...

I'm not trying to start an argument, I promise. But yesterday you said it's on poor people to make better decisions, and stop having kids they can't afford and taking your tax money. That the childless and single shouldn't have to support those who choose to have children.

So if you're not interested in giving a little of yours to help the many, I don't know if there's much hope for corporations...or even politicians who are often pretty much bought out. There's a lot of poverty out there but almost all of us think the sacrifice should come from somewhere else. Again that's not you insult you. I'm sure we all feel we're stretched to our limits right now

I think you misread Prouclads message. If I'm not mistaken, he is unhappy at paying exorbitant taxes that don't actually do anything. I am of the same mindset, that I'm happy to help people in need, but currently the system is helping leeches and actually screwing over the people who need it.

Sure feels great contributing what amounts to a salary's worth of taxes...only to see Chicago remain a piece of shit.
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prince_leo posted...

meingott posted...

By the way, I think it was...Denmark's (or was it Sweden's) prime minister who flat out rejected what Bernie said about their country being a "democratic socialist" country. That conception was popularized in America, but it's not actually true. Those countries are more capitalistic than they are socialist.

Denmark

"I would like to make one thing clear. Denmark is far from a socialist planned economy. Denmark is a market economy."
Rasmussen acknowledged that "the Nordic model is an expanded welfare state which provides a high level of security to its citizens," but he also noted that it is "a successful market economy with much freedom to pursue your dreams and live your life as you wish."

Yup. If it wasn't for America specifically focusing on growing its own economy (even at the expense of high taxes) then Denmark wouldn't exist in its current form, tbqh.
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meingott posted...

KarmaMuffin posted...

meingott posted...

They're not. Venezuela is a better example of socialism than Norway/Sweden/Denmark/etc.

While that's true, Venezuela's problems run deeper than socialism and are largely the result of a dictatorship and reliance on low-quality oil. Blaming socialism for that is like blaming capitalism for everything wrong with the USA, it's true that many of our problems stem from it but it's not like it couldn't have been kept in check and held accountable.

This is a common talking point that is demonstrably false. Venezuela did suffer because of oil, but they've been adopting socialistic practices for over a decade now. With the results getting worse and worse over the years. They've been nationalizing many things, not just their oil. Long story short, socialism is to blame for what's happening there. Their government is literally an example of what happens when you seize the means of production, try to redistribute wealth, etc. And many of the people there voted for Chavez under those pretenses. For years.

God forbid we give the people some power to break free from their corporate slave masters
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America has been pretty delusional for a very long time about how many of our fellow citizens live in absolute shit conditions for a developed country
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Does this really surprised anyone given who we have in office right now?
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GOATTHlEF posted...

Wth happened to you Proudclad? You used to be a tier 5 or 6 CEuser but have regressed to a tier 3. I would think you or all people would have been immune to the brain slugs that are infecting others in your party? This is pure conspiracy trash donphan

this isnt even my final form
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Novice User User Since: Jan 2017Karma: 32Active Posts: 246Total Badges: 7

These stats say it all: this guy is a shit posting troll
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My simplified platform for KILBOTz 2020:

tax policy:
Reduce corporate income tax to a competitive global rate. Increase dividends tax rate for a cash neutral solution.

(a state's right thing but) have state education funding be more spread evenly than how it is currently mostly local.

Cuts:
US spends $150B a year on oversea bases. Get rid of all but the most strategically important ones. Maybe one in S. Korea and Japan and someplace good in the Middle East.

US spends $20B on farm subsidies a year, with the 15% of largest farms getting 85% of the funding. Have hard size caps and cut funding by $15B.

Reduce federal government workforce by 10% through attrition, from 2.1M to 1.9M and annual expenditures from $267B to to $240B or a $27B reduction.

Reduce the military budget by 10% with a move more towards defense than power projection for about another $100B reduction.


New expenditures:

in 2012 Goldman Sach's estimated that it would cost Google $140B to have nationwide fiberoptic cable. Rent the capacity to ISPs for the maintenance costs and have price ceilings.

Increase federal infrastructure spending by $100B/year including things like making sure cities have clean water, roads are usable and safe and hopefully widened, etc.
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KILBOTz posted...

(a state's right thing but) have state education funding be more spread evenly than how it is currently mostly local.

i disagree with this one because then peoples property taxes wouldnt be funding their kid's education. itd fund someone else's. which is unfair considering some people pay higher propert taxes and do so willingly because they want to invest in their own community. what youre proposing would reduce the overall quality of education, not improve it...seeing as the amount of money isnt actually the issue.

Chicago Public Schools spend around $16,000 per year per student. For a shitty education. The problem is much deeper than not having enough funding.
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If you don't want your tax money to help other people's children the future described in the article seems to a certainty rather than a warning. Your me first attitude isn't going to help a divided country.
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KILBOTz posted...

If you don't want your tax money to help other people's children the future described in the article seems to a certainty rather than a warning. Your me first attitude isn't going to help a divided country.

1) We already spend a ton of money on education. Like I said, an average of $16,000 per student for Chicago Public Schools. I went to one of those schools from kindergarten to 8th grade and it was awful despite the cost. More money isn't what will fix the issue. More accountability and less corruption will.

2) Who the fuck works to put food on someone else's table and to send their earnings into someone else's community? That's nonsense. You aren't advocating helping anyone - you're advocating reducing the standard of living and education over-all. People work and invest into their communities with the expectation that the investment is actually going into their communities. Anything else would be even worse of a situation than what we have now.

3) There is absolutely nothing wrong wth a "me first" attitude. In fact, I'd argue that any sane and rational individual needs to put themselves first, and has a moral obligation to do so. Especially when they're providing for children. My earnings are first and foremost for myself, then for my community, and then for the federal government. I'd stop working and investing as much as I do if my labor was just going to making someone else's children competitive whilst my kids and my community's kids are shafted with increasingly bad education in the name of "equality."
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3) There is absolutely nothing wrong wth a "me first" attitude.

The corporations agree with you here. That's why they buy the politicians. There's your corruption and greed.
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