Current Events > Jewish atheist Sam Harris claims the left will die due to it's growing violence.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-z_GAygD7c

Wanted to quote a transcript but couldn't find one and I'm not typing out 4 minutes. Just watch it.


Some of you will know him as the "gross" "racist" guy who Ben Affleck owned over Islam on Bill Maher's show.

He argues that due to the violence from the left, silencing right wing and quasi right wing opinions instead of critizing them ,and the media pundits who feed into that violence and fuel it, the "left" has become irredeemable and in many aspects identical to the far-right, causing it to die. Meanwhile there is a new "Center" in political groups.

https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/540104411-11.jpg

Do you think he is right? Or is he as "gross" as ever?
---

a Jew named Harris?
---

Why is there a flat yes answer but not a flat no answer?
---

I think antifa are a joke but he is wrong. They need to get their shit together though.
---

Not trying to start a debate here but "Jewish atheist" sounds weird.
---

How can a political ideology "die"? Even Nazism of all things still has devoted followers.
---

SpiralDrift posted...

Not trying to start a debate here but "Jewish atheist" sounds weird.

Yeah, Jew is a religious and cultural term.
---

Samurontai posted...

Why is there a flat yes answer but not a flat no answer?

Because there is only one yes to the question, however there is a split on No.

Either it gets weaker, dies or gets stronger
---

teepan95 posted...

How can a political ideology "die"? Even Nazism of all things still has devoted followers.

He didn't say the idealogy will die, he said it's no longer the "left." and there is a new center
---

How is "the left" defined anyway
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

Samurontai posted...

Why is there a flat yes answer but not a flat no answer?

Because there is only one yes to the question, however there is a split on No.

Either it gets weaker, dies or gets stronger

Or doesn't change at all, which could be interpreted as just a flat "no".
---

why do you have the word gross in quotations so many times
---

There is a plethora of people that defend the violence, although they don't actively participate in the violence. The horrors of the terrorist groups such as Antifa do not discourage the moderates that agree with them, but that do not participate in the actual violence.

Overall, the violence doesn't sway liberals either way. It's ok/justifiable when your side does it.
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

teepan95 posted...

How can a political ideology "die"? Even Nazism of all things still has devoted followers.

He didn't say the idealogy will die, he said it's no longer the "left." and there is a new center

Oh I see

He has a point over tumblrism

But generalising tumblrism to "the left" is misleading, imo
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

Some of you will know him as the "gross" "racist" guy who Ben Affleck owned over Islam on Bill Maher's show.

That's something only a contrarian would post

I think the left will be fine if they speak out against people who want to commit terror such as Antifa and Bernie Sanders.
---

Samurontai posted...

Why is there a flat yes answer but not a flat no answer?

because OP is biased and doesn't actually care about what people who disagree with him say
---

Samurontai posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Samurontai posted...

Why is there a flat yes answer but not a flat no answer?

Because there is only one yes to the question, however there is a split on No.

Either it gets weaker, dies or gets stronger

Or doesn't change at all, which could be interpreted as just a flat "no".

I reject the notion that mass violence, riots and protests (containing millions) literally have no effect whatsoever on the strength or weaknesses of the idealogy being promoted by the people doing it.

I think that's a dumb thing to say. Like arguing the atomic bomb had "no effect" on Japan, America or WW2.

Microwaved_Eggs posted...

why do you have the word gross in quotations so many times

Because it's a quote?
---

DifferentialEquation posted...

I think the left will be fine if they speak out against people who want to commit terror such as Antifa and Bernie Sanders.

If that ever does happen, I think it'll be too little too late.
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

I think that's a dumb thing to say. Like arguing the atomic bomb had "no effect" on Japan, America or WW2.

Why are you trying to start an argument about the nuclear bombing of Japan in your thread about the future of the leftwing in America?

That seems insanely weird and not at all in character for you.

DifferentialEquation posted...

I think the left will be fine if they speak out against people who want to commit terror such as Antifa and Bernie Sanders.

What terror does Bernie Sanders want to commit?

P01ntyDmonspank posted...

Why are you trying to start an argument about the nuclear bombing of Japan in your thread about the future of the leftwing in America?

I'm not?

That seems insanely weird and not at all in character for you.

I don't have a character
---

you really are a triggered little snowflake
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

I reject the notion that mass violence, riots and protests (containing millions) literally have no effect whatsoever on the strength or weaknesses of the idealogy being promoted by the people doing it.

Why ask a question if you are just going to reject answers you don't like?

JE19426 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

I reject the notion that mass violence, riots and protests (containing millions) literally have no effect whatsoever on the strength or weaknesses of the idealogy being promoted by the people doing it.

Why ask a question if you are just going to reject answers you don't like?

I reject answers I don't believe make any sense.

You'll note "A teapot orbiting the moon" is not an option either.

If you would like to, then you create a poll where you include options that don't make sense, go right ahead but first you'll need to petition gamefaqs to have infinite answers.

And if you're that bothered by it just post your answer that makes no sense and then leave while actual intellectuals can talk.
---

jesus christ this is sad
---

The only thing that was "gross" was how Ben Affleck had a CE-esque meltdown when a well-reasoned Jew laid out his arguments against Islam in its current state logically.
---

The implosion of the left is beautiful to watch.

The left can't die anymore than the idea of being "conservative" can die. The only thing that will happen is the left will stop holding onto certain values or change. As long as society has existed there have always been "progressives" who want new values and "conservatives" who want a return to old values.
---

M_Live posted...

Why can't I just vote no

because UnfairRepresent posted...

I reject answers I don't believe make any sense.

---

Where's the "No because the left is too big of an ideology to die" option?

ThanksUglyGod posted...

Where's the "No because the left is too big of an ideology to die" option?

No. It won't "die" but this weakens it.
No. The violence makes it stronger.
I don't know.
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

ThanksUglyGod posted...

Where's the "No because the left is too big of an ideology to die" option?

No. It won't "die" but this weakens it.
No. The violence makes it stronger.
I don't know.

I was looking more for a "No. It stays the same" option

ThanksUglyGod posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

ThanksUglyGod posted...

Where's the "No because the left is too big of an ideology to die" option?

No. It won't "die" but this weakens it.
No. The violence makes it stronger.
I don't know.

I was looking more for a "No. It stays the same" option

Sigless user logic
---

CrimsonRage posted...

pinky0926 posted...

The left can't die anymore than the idea of being "conservative" can die. The only thing that will happen is the left will stop holding onto certain values or change. As long as society has existed there have always been "progressives" who want new values and "conservatives" who want a return to old values.

And progressives always ultimately win because a return to "old values" has never improved a society.

The other side of that argument is what constitutes progress? Not everything new is automatically better. Radical change comes in lots of forms and can be utterly devastating to civilisation. I see myself as a social liberal but even I'm scratching my head at some of the actions of would-be progressives that seems utterly totalitarian to me.
---

pinky0926 posted...

The other side of that argument is what constitutes progress?

This is a question for the ages
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

I reject answers I don't believe make any sense.

And you think the answer "No" to a yes or no question doesn't make sense?

Free speech is bad if it allows nazis to speak.
---

JE19426 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

I reject answers I don't believe make any sense.

And you think the answer "No" to a yes or no question doesn't make sense?

Not at all, which is why there are 2 no answers that cover 2 of the 3 possibilites.
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

Not at all, which is why there are 2 no answers that cover 2 of the 3 possibilites.

There’s two "No with some additional reasoning that may or may not apply to the reader" no simple "No" answer.

Psycho_Poodle posted...

Free speech is bad if it allows nazis to speak.

Spoken like a member of the Sturmabteilung.
---

JE19426 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Not at all, which is why there are 2 no answers that cover 2 of the 3 possibilites.

There’s two "No with some additional reasoning that may or may not apply to the reader" no simple "No" answer.

Sigless user logic
---

I agree with Harris for the most part but wtf @ that picture of Cenk lol
---

emblem boy posted...

How is "the left" defined anyway

Depends if you're asking about social or economic policy.

You'll then need to cross-reference it against authoritarian or liberal (not current usage of the word).

The left that there is so much discussion about now puts itself forward as being anti-fascist while behaving like fascists (authoritarian), screams about liberalism while refusing to accept any other views. It's obsessed with identarian politics while struggling to form a cohesive identity of its own. It exists to shit things up and just be "against" whatever happens to be in charge. As long as there is an "other" for them to rail against though then they'll exist in some form. The more they scream and fight though the more the populations of the nations they are shitting up will turn to the extremes.

There'll likely be a "redefinition" of ideologies and the "centre" ground at least socially will shift to the left (eventually leading to an even stronger reactionary return in the future) while economically it'll be the same corporate shit show it has been for decades - at least in what would be described as the Western World.

The left won't die, it'll just find new ways to fuck up and fail to understand that humans and the authoritarian left ideology, have not and will not ever work.

Reign in the corporate friendly environment that puts business and trade as the priority and you've got a chance to put the wider population of a nation first. That would require scaling back of globalism and a return to a more insular, nation based line of thought.
---

UnfairRepresent posted...

Sigless user logic

It's not logic of any kind. It's a statement of fact.

JRaasin posted...

I agree with Harris for the most part but wtf @ that picture of Cenk lol

Harris didn't make the video
---

SpiralDrift posted...

Not trying to start a debate here but "Jewish atheist" sounds weird.

---

GeneralZhao posted...

SpiralDrift posted...

Not trying to start a debate here but "Jewish atheist" sounds weird.

WW2 took the God out of Judaism for a lot of jews. Now they're mainly about culture as opposed to a religion.
---