Current Events > Re-watching Voyager ...

(+) Yeah! (+)

and it isn't too bad. It actually had some decent episodes. It had a lot of bad ones, but it also had some decent ones. Got really tired towards the end though. I think what makes it so frustrating is how much potential it had and how it completely wasted it and played it safe.

I liked holo doc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIGxMENwq1k
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Voyager is my favourite series.

I finished watching Enterprise recently. I had always heard it was bad. When it was all added to Netflix last year, I thought I might as well watch it. Turns out I liked it a fair bit.
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K181 posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIGxMENwq1k

Like I said, wasted potential, but it could pretty easily be argued that they simply found a way.

Voyager is my least favorite followed by DS9
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Irony posted...

Voyager is my least favorite followed by DS9

DS9 is probably my favorite. Voyager is the goofiest but action-packed. TNG was smart and had some amazing performances, but was ridiculously optimistic and had some really, really bad episodes. The original series is classic but cheesy.

I could never make it through Enterprise though. They took out everything that made Star Trek what it was, like technology and weird aliens. Couldn't stand the cast. It was a ridiculously bad entry in the series.

I feel bad for all of the actors who didn't play Janeway, the Doctor, or Seven.
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Voyager definitely had its ups and downs, but I enjoyed it. Just wish they didn't make the Borg weak.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSuXtHpjI2s
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pegusus123456 posted...

I feel bad for all of the actors who didn't play Janeway, the Doctor, or Seven.

I know, and it gets incredibly bad towards the end, too.

Honestly, I would have done it all differently;
- I would have spent at least the first two or three seasons showing the friction between the two crews. Things like Chakotay's constant disagreeing and Tom and B'Lanna's relationship would have had so much more impact.
- I would have killed off Harry instead of Kes. I would have continued using Kes and having her grow more and more powerful. I would have still added Seven, but have Kes study under Tuvok instead.
- A bunch of season-long arcs like Year in Hell (with a less 'reset button' ending), the Hirogen's holodeck episode, and the Equinox.
- Have the three powerful races introduced in the first season form an alliance like they planned, forcing Voyager to build an alliance to fight them. I can't believe they didn't let the writers do this.
- Have Chakotay hook up with Janeway. They had way more chemistry than Chakotay and Seven.
- Speaking of Chakotay, completely get rid of the blatant racism about his character.
- Kept Seska and forced her to stay on board, either in the brig or as the token evil teammate.

Apparently they were actually going to kill Harry off, but Garret Wang was named one of People's sexiest men alive around that same time. So they ended up changing that.

And SFDebris proposed an alternate ending to Year of Hell which would help. Using some technobabble (like he had to be close to the temporal generator for some reason), have Harry Kim be the only person to remember that year. Then you have actual consequences for that episode and you shake up a boring-ass character.

But nah, you couldn't have continuity on Voyager.
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pegusus123456 posted...

Apparently they were actually going to kill Harry off, but Garret Wang was named one of People's sexiest men alive around that same time. So they ended up changing that.

And SFDebris proposed an alternate ending to Year of Hell which would help. Using some technobabble (like he had to be close to the temporal generator for some reason), have Harry Kim be the only person to remember that year. Then you have actual consequences for that episode and you shake up a boring-ass character.

But nah, you couldn't have continuity on Voyager.

Yeah, I heard the first part. The second I hadn't though. That would have been so awesome.

Also Lt. Suder! What a wasted character. Having him as a Hannibal Lecter-like character would have been so amazing. Hell, having him in a few more episodes would have at least made his death much more poignant.

Voyager had a good few parts, namely Kes, the Doctor, Tuvok, SevenOfNine, and B'Elanna. I admit I never really watch Deep Space 9 because I wasn't interested in watching the show centered around a stagnant Space Station. I hear it's got the best story and characters out of all of them, though.
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Alucard188 posted...

I admit I never really watch Deep Space 9 because I wasn't interested in watching the show centered around a stagnant Space Station. I hear it's got the best story and characters out of all of them, though.

I remember thinking that too. They remedy it in the third season by introducing a ship named the Defiant. Really though, the constant traffic from Gamma Quadrant species might as well have had made them a ship. It didn't really feel boring because the wormhole basically delivered an alien plot to the doorstep every week.

I'm on the sixth season now; the borg children are probably the only time in all of Star Trek history that child characters were absolutely horrible.

Oh! Another missed potential! The ship should have been visibly different each season or at least by the end from all the alien tech they scrounged. I realize that would have been a budget nightmare fo the ship model, but at least have some cues on the interior like maybe different style consoles or different light schemes or weapons or something.

Also ... holy shit!

Mark Sheppard (Crowley from Supernatural, was also on Firefly) was Icheb's dad.

Voyager's good is as good as any Star Trek, and it's bad is as bad as any Star Trek. but there's a lot more bad than good compared to DS9 and TNG.
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He was also a lawyer in BSG
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Lvaneede posted...

Voyager is my favourite series.

I finished watching Enterprise recently. I had always heard it was bad. When it was all added to Netflix last year, I thought I might as well watch it. Turns out I liked it a fair bit.

Enterprise got a lot of run-off Voyager hate. Voyager is a worse series overall though it is more consistent in what it is. Voyager is pretty consistently low-mediocre. Enterprise has several episodes and arcs that are really great.

TNG > DS9 > TOS = ENT > VOY
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Dash_Harber posted...

Alucard188 posted...

I admit I never really watch Deep Space 9 because I wasn't interested in watching the show centered around a stagnant Space Station. I hear it's got the best story and characters out of all of them, though.

I remember thinking that too. They remedy it in the third season by introducing a ship named the Defiant. Really though, the constant traffic from Gamma Quadrant species might as well have had made them a ship. It didn't really feel boring because the wormhole basically delivered an alien plot to the doorstep every week.

I'm on the sixth season now; the borg children are probably the only time in all of Star Trek history that child characters were absolutely horrible.

Oh! Another missed potential! The ship should have been visibly different each season or at least by the end from all the alien tech they scrounged. I realize that would have been a budget nightmare fo the ship model, but at least have some cues on the interior like maybe different style consoles or different light schemes or weapons or something.

The ship looking different with time and evolving based on the "lost in space" premise was part of the original pitch of the show. But yeah they never followed through with it. Episodic as fuck to the very end.

Another area where Enterprise beats it.

Also the recent Star Trek movie, Star Trek Beyond references Enterprise *spoilers* The Xindi Wars are referenced and an NX class ship is seen, and even though it's a different timeline those things I think happened before the timeline split
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joe40001 posted...

Also the recent Star Trek movie, Star Trek Beyond references Enterprise *spoilers* The Xindi Wars are referenced and an NX class ship is seen, and even though it's a different timeline those things I think happened before the timeline split

yeah, they did happen before the split so a lot of it is unchanged (we can assume) but the writers have said that the jump to the Kelvinverse did have ripples in both directions (such as Chekov being older, among many others)
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Part of me wishes I could go back and rewatch star trek again.

DS9>TNG>ENT>VOY

Also, isnt a new one being made right now?
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emblem boy posted...

Also, isnt a new one being made right now?

Discovery, yeah
it's having some problems, and it takes place between ENT and TOS, so we'll see

I wish we had a post-Nemesis / VOY show. kinda like the jump from TOS to TNG, we do again into the 25th century
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TNG>Voyager>Ent>DS9.

TNG was mostly good.
Voyager was okay.
Ent got better at the end.
Ds9 is just a Bablyon 5 copy with more boring characters and everything worst. Babylon 5 was very good though.
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prince_leo posted...

joe40001 posted...

Also the recent Star Trek movie, Star Trek Beyond references Enterprise *spoilers* The Xindi Wars are referenced and an NX class ship is seen, and even though it's a different timeline those things I think happened before the timeline split

yeah, they did happen before the split so a lot of it is unchanged (we can assume) but the writers have said that the jump to the Kelvinverse did have ripples in both directions (such as Chekov being older, among many others)

That's really cool. I'm probably one of the few old-school fans that actually really enjoyed the new movies. My only real complaint was that Beyond had the perfect setup to introduce the borg to the Kelvinverse; the enemies already looked like hi-tech borg, they glowed green, the villain kept talking about unity and all that.

prince_leo posted...

Discovery, yeah
it's having some problems, and it takes place between ENT and TOS, so we'll see

I wish we had a post-Nemesis / VOY show. kinda like the jump from TOS to TNG, we do again into the 25th century

I was so excited, but my excitement totally trailed off after I heard the time period. The keep trying to get rid of the technology and the deep space exploration, and that is sort of the whole damn point of the series.

AmonAmarth posted...

TNG>Voyager>Ent>DS9.

TNG was mostly good.
Voyager was okay.
Ent got better at the end.
Ds9 is just a Bablyon 5 copy with more boring characters and everything worst. Babylon 5 was very good though.

Agree on Voyager and TNG. I absolutely loved DS9 as it did something completely different without being to different. ENT, as I mentioned before, I hated and didn't bother watching after the first season. I hated the characters, I hated the cast, I hated the no-tech premise, I hated the timeframe that forced us to get reintroduced to species we already knew for years. It was just a mess.

Dash_Harber posted...

prince_leo posted...

joe40001 posted...

Also the recent Star Trek movie, Star Trek Beyond references Enterprise *spoilers* The Xindi Wars are referenced and an NX class ship is seen, and even though it's a different timeline those things I think happened before the timeline split

yeah, they did happen before the split so a lot of it is unchanged (we can assume) but the writers have said that the jump to the Kelvinverse did have ripples in both directions (such as Chekov being older, among many others)

That's really cool. I'm probably one of the few old-school fans that actually really enjoyed the new movies. My only real complaint was that Beyond had the perfect setup to introduce the borg to the Kelvinverse; the enemies already looked like hi-tech borg, they glowed green, the villain kept talking about unity and all that.

prince_leo posted...

Discovery, yeah
it's having some problems, and it takes place between ENT and TOS, so we'll see

I wish we had a post-Nemesis / VOY show. kinda like the jump from TOS to TNG, we do again into the 25th century

I was so excited, but my excitement totally trailed off after I heard the time period. The keep trying to get rid of the technology and the deep space exploration, and that is sort of the whole damn point of the series.

AmonAmarth posted...

TNG>Voyager>Ent>DS9.

TNG was mostly good.
Voyager was okay.
Ent got better at the end.
Ds9 is just a Bablyon 5 copy with more boring characters and everything worst. Babylon 5 was very good though.

Agree on Voyager and TNG. I absolutely loved DS9 as it did something completely different without being to different. ENT, as I mentioned before, I hated and didn't bother watching after the first season. I hated the characters, I hated the cast, I hated the no-tech premise, I hated the timeframe that forced us to get reintroduced to species we already knew for years. It was just a mess.

S3 and S4 of ENT are better than any season of VOY
(Don't watch the final episode TATV though, it's not cannon)
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Harry Kim was super cringe worthy. And like all the time too.
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Gojak_v3 posted...

Harry Kim was super cringe worthy. And like all the time too.

There is one episode of his I actually really liked; the one where Harry and Chakotay are the only survivors of a slipstream disaster that caused Voyager to crash into an ice planet and they try to send a message back in time to make sure it works while Geordi LaForge pursues them for stealing the Delta Flyer and messing with time. He actually had some character development in that episode. Of course, this being Voyager, they mashed the reset button at the end and it was never mentioned again, despite them having evidence.

Dash_Harber posted...

Gojak_v3 posted...

Harry Kim was super cringe worthy. And like all the time too.

There is one episode of his I actually really liked; the one where Harry and Chakotay are the only survivors of a slipstream disaster that caused Voyager to crash into an ice planet and they try to send a message back in time to make sure it works while Geordi LaForge pursues them for stealing the Delta Flyer and messing with time. He actually had some character development in that episode. Of course, this being Voyager, they mashed the reset button at the end and it was never mentioned again, despite them having evidence.

yep that was a good episode.
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Dash_Harber posted...

That's really cool. I'm probably one of the few old-school fans that actually really enjoyed the new movies. My only real complaint was that Beyond had the perfect setup to introduce the borg to the Kelvinverse; the enemies already looked like hi-tech borg, they glowed green, the villain kept talking about unity and all that.

I feel ya man, I grew up during the TNG/DS9/VOY era and watched TOS and ENT later on, love it all and I still enjoyed the new trilogy
I get why fans don't like it, but I give most of the problems a pass because the movies are always different from the shows

and yeah, I think the Borg would have been the perfect fit into the movie, especially with how advanced the Kelvin!Federation is for the 23rd Century
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mobilebloechel posted...

Janeway is best captain

Janeway isn't even the best captain if you don't count Picard, Sisko, and Kirk.
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pegusus123456 posted...

mobilebloechel posted...

Janeway is best captain

Janeway isn't even the best captain if you don't count Picard, Sisko, and Kirk.

To be fair, Sisko wasn't a captain until like season 3.

Sisko was given a retroactive promotion which made him a captain from the time he was in utero.
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pegusus123456 posted...

Sisko was given a retroactive promotion which made him a captain from the time he was in utero.

Don't get me started on the wormhole aliens. It's the one thing I disliked about DS9.

Because they're presented as gods?
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pegusus123456 posted...

Because they're presented as gods?

No, because their interactions with Sisko make zero sense. They exist outside of temporal space; everything that has been, is, and will be is existing right now. However, when they meet Sisko, they are surprised he exists and have no understanding of how temporal life exists. How are they surprised if the always knew him?

They are also obviously not influencing the Bajorans, since then they'd understand temporal existence. How the fuck do they help the Bajorans if they don't understand how things are born/grow/etc. So it's more likely they aren't the prophets.

Then there are the pah-wraiths, who they somehow locked up at some point for being evil, which is pretty fucking weird since they don't seem to have any god damn morals for sexual or violent crimes. Plus, how do you lock them up if they are simultaneously both being locked up, imprisoned, and being freed.

There is no way for them to exist in their universe without time, and yet influencing the Bajorans, steering Sisko, and dealing with the Pah Wraiths.