Current Events > "I Had 4 Boys Until One of Them Told Me She Was Really a Girl"

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smoliske 05/09/17 12:26:30 AM #1:	As early as 18 months old, Kimberly Shappley's son started showing signs he identified as female. Now, the Christian mom shares how she learned to embrace Kai's transition — for her child's happiness and safety. I remember one night when Kai was very young, and I was tucking her into bed. Her legs were cold and, concerned, I lifted the sheets, discovering she had taken a pair of panties off a baby doll and put them on herself. It was constricting her blood circulation and if she'd slept that way overnight, it could have become very dangerous. After that experience, I realized I could no longer ignore something very real about my child: My son, born Joseph Paul Shappley, is a girl. I was raised as a devout, conservative Christian with strong Republican values in the South. It's a place where being different can not only be unforgiving, but unsafe. I was, and am, an active member of our local church. I used to lead a small ministry teaching Bible study, and I didn't support or condone those living the LGBTQ lifestyle. That was just part of the Christian makeup I'd been brought up to believe. I knew I'd instill those same principles in my children. But all of my beliefs and convictions were brought into question when, at 18 months old, Kai began exhibiting very strong female characteristics. From the moment my child was born, everything about Kai was geared toward femininity. She would pull T-shirts down around her waist to make them into skirts. She would tie long-sleeved shirts around her head and pretend like it was long hair. I tried so hard to force her into wearing clothes with camouflage and superhero patterns, and I even gave her severe, flat-top haircuts. Kai has three other siblings who are boys, so it was also a very testosterone-filled family environment, which I thought might help. Everything was fishing and spitting and boy stuff. But Kai just continued to be Kai. As a Christian mother raising a Christian family, it was a very difficult time for me. I wasn't ready to give in and allow Kai to transition socially — especially at such a young age. My internal struggle beat me up daily. I felt like I couldn't go against everything I'd been taught to believe, and yet I also couldn't let Kai live in such obvious agony. I wasn't ready to face the fact that my one-and-a-half-year-old child was a girl. That battle lasted for a couple years. Shortly after Kai turned 2, friends and family were starting to notice her behavior. Living in Pearland, Texas, that meant we were getting a lot of sidelong glances and questions. Kai would only play with other girls and girls' toys. She said boys were "gross." Family members were flat-out asking me if this kid was gay. It made me nervous, and I was constantly worried about what people would think of me, of us and of my parenting. While family was questioning whether Kai was gay, a Christian friend of mine, who is also a child psychologist, asked me: "Have you noticed Kai's feminine behavior?" It was such a gentle question, as opposed to the harsh accusations of others. I said, "I've noticed, but I figure she'll just grow out of it." I can laugh at that now. It's so clear, in retrospect, that this was not a passing phase. But when my friend asked me that, I still wasn't ready to accept it. As I continued to watch my child developing, my friend started pointing out red flags that there was something very real going on. She told me that Kai being transgender may be something I needed to consider. <cite>smoliske posted [p:878742020] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote> <quote>As early as 18 months old, Kimberly Shappley's son started showing signs he identified as female. Now, the Christian mom shares how she learned to embrace Kai's transition — for her child's happiness and safety. I remember one night when Kai was very young, and I was tucking her into bed. Her legs were cold and, concerned, I lifted the sheets, discovering she had taken a pair of panties off a baby doll and put them on herself. It was constricting her blood circulation and if she'd slept that way overnight, it could have become very dangerous. After that experience, I realized I could no longer ignore something very real about my child: My son, born Joseph Paul Shappley, is a girl. I was raised as a devout, conservative Christian with strong Republican values in the South. It's a place where being different can not only be unforgiving, but unsafe. I was, and am, an active member of our local church. I used to lead a small ministry teaching Bible study, and I didn't support or condone those living the LGBTQ lifestyle. That was just part of the Christian makeup I'd been brought up to believe. I knew I'd instill those same principles in my children. But all of my beliefs and convictions were brought into question when, at 18 months old, Kai began exhibiting very strong female characteristics. From the moment my child was born, everything about Kai was geared toward femininity. She would pull T-shirts down around her waist to make them into skirts. She would tie long-sleeved shirts around her head and pretend like it was long hair. I tried so hard to force her into wearing clothes with camouflage and superhero patterns, and I even gave her severe, flat-top haircuts. Kai has three other siblings who are boys, so it was also a very testosterone-filled family environment, which I thought might help. Everything was fishing and spitting and boy stuff. But Kai just continued to be Kai. As a Christian mother raising a Christian family, it was a very difficult time for me. I wasn't ready to give in and allow Kai to transition socially — especially at such a young age. My internal struggle beat me up daily. I felt like I couldn't go against everything I'd been taught to believe, and yet I also couldn't let Kai live in such obvious agony. I wasn't ready to face the fact that my one-and-a-half-year-old child was a girl. That battle lasted for a couple years. Shortly after Kai turned 2, friends and family were starting to notice her behavior. Living in Pearland, Texas, that meant we were getting a lot of sidelong glances and questions. Kai would only play with other girls and girls' toys. She said boys were "gross." Family members were flat-out asking me if this kid was gay. It made me nervous, and I was constantly worried about what people would think of me, of us and of my parenting. While family was questioning whether Kai was gay, a Christian friend of mine, who is also a child psychologist, asked me: "Have you noticed Kai's feminine behavior?" It was such a gentle question, as opposed to the harsh accusations of others. I said, "I've noticed, but I figure she'll just grow out of it." I can laugh at that now. It's so clear, in retrospect, that this was not a passing phase. But when my friend asked me that, I still wasn't ready to accept it. As I continued to watch my child developing, my friend started pointing out red flags that there was something very real going on. She told me that Kai being transgender may be something I needed to consider.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
smoliske 05/09/17 12:26:43 AM #2:	By the time Kai was 3 1/2 years old, I couldn't ignore it anymore. She was verbalizing that she was a girl at least six times a day. Everything was: "I'm a princess" and "I'm a girl." Every time she'd say something like that, I'd get down on her level and firmly say, "No, you're a boy." It never worked. She would correct me by waiting until I was in the middle of something and unable to chase her around, then run into the room and yell, "I'm a girl!" and run out again. I did everything I could think of to cut off that kind of talk. There were time-outs, so many time-outs. There were spankings and yelling matches and endless prayers. I even contacted the daycare Kai attended and asked them to put away every single "girl" toy. They complied with it, but Kai never changed her tune. The tenaciousness and bravery of this child is something from which I've learned so much. I started reaching out to more professionals, including a child psychiatrist who asked me, "If you and Kai were on a deserted island, would you let her wear girls' clothes?'" I said, "Probably." The psychiatrist told me it wasn't God I had a problem with, but what other people would think of my child and me. That really got my gears spinning. I thought, Okay, I could start with girls' panties. It's something no one else will see. It took me three or four trips to Walmart until I could finally bring myself to do it. I'd go pick them up and then leave them in the store, crying as I walked out of the automatic doors. I would be so upset, and then I'd feel bad about not getting them. It was something so seemingly small, but it was a huge hurdle to overcome. Guilt and confusion were eating away at me in a constant battle to find a solution. Kai was still 3 1/2 when I came across Leelah Alcorn's story online. Leelah, born Josh Alcorn, had voiced a desire to live as a girl. Her parents said that, religiously, they wouldn't stand for it. Leelah later wrote a note to her parents and a specific passage stuck with me: "Even if you are Christian or against transgender people don't ever say that to your kid. That won't do anything but make them hate themselves. That's exactly what it did to me." Alcorn's story ended tragically — she committed suicide because her parents wouldn't let her be who God designed her to be. That hit me too close to home. I'd heard Kai praying to please let Joseph go home and live with Jesus. I mean, this kid was asking the Lord to let her die. After that, I started studying for a long time just about Jesus, getting to know more about His nature and character. I also read and reread His interactions with the Pharisees. The religious people of the Bible were always using scripture to justify their hateful actions, and Jesus consistently stepped in and asked them to view the scripture from the perspective of loving the person. So that's what I started to do. Online, I found a secret Facebook community of Christian moms of LGBTQ kids. It's a beautiful group with a combined total of more than 2,000 moms now. I found women who would pray with me and for me. I found a group of the least judgmental and loving Christian women I have met. They make me brave. I felt like I was armed with a new understanding of scripture. I had the support of other moms like me, who had been through the same thing I was going through. <cite>smoliske posted [p:878742036] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><quote>By the time Kai was 3 1/2 years old, I couldn't ignore it anymore. She was verbalizing that she was a girl at least six times a day. Everything was: "I'm a princess" and "I'm a girl." Every time she'd say something like that, I'd get down on her level and firmly say, "No, you're a boy." It never worked. She would correct me by waiting until I was in the middle of something and unable to chase her around, then run into the room and yell, "I'm a girl!" and run out again. I did everything I could think of to cut off that kind of talk. There were time-outs, so many time-outs. There were spankings and yelling matches and endless prayers. I even contacted the daycare Kai attended and asked them to put away every single "girl" toy. They complied with it, but Kai never changed her tune. The tenaciousness and bravery of this child is something from which I've learned so much. I started reaching out to more professionals, including a child psychiatrist who asked me, "If you and Kai were on a deserted island, would you let her wear girls' clothes?'" I said, "Probably." The psychiatrist told me it wasn't God I had a problem with, but what other people would think of my child and me. That really got my gears spinning. I thought, Okay, I could start with girls' panties. It's something no one else will see. It took me three or four trips to Walmart until I could finally bring myself to do it. I'd go pick them up and then leave them in the store, crying as I walked out of the automatic doors. I would be so upset, and then I'd feel bad about not getting them. It was something so seemingly small, but it was a huge hurdle to overcome. Guilt and confusion were eating away at me in a constant battle to find a solution. Kai was still 3 1/2 when I came across Leelah Alcorn's story online. Leelah, born Josh Alcorn, had voiced a desire to live as a girl. Her parents said that, religiously, they wouldn't stand for it. Leelah later wrote a note to her parents and a specific passage stuck with me: "Even if you are Christian or against transgender people don't ever say that to your kid. That won't do anything but make them hate themselves. That's exactly what it did to me." Alcorn's story ended tragically — she committed suicide because her parents wouldn't let her be who God designed her to be. That hit me too close to home. I'd heard Kai praying to please let Joseph go home and live with Jesus. I mean, this kid was asking the Lord to let her die. After that, I started studying for a long time just about Jesus, getting to know more about His nature and character. I also read and reread His interactions with the Pharisees. The religious people of the Bible were always using scripture to justify their hateful actions, and Jesus consistently stepped in and asked them to view the scripture from the perspective of loving the person. So that's what I started to do. Online, I found a secret Facebook community of Christian moms of LGBTQ kids. It's a beautiful group with a combined total of more than 2,000 moms now. I found women who would pray with me and for me. I found a group of the least judgmental and loving Christian women I have met. They make me brave. I felt like I was armed with a new understanding of scripture. I had the support of other moms like me, who had been through the same thing I was going through.</quote></quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DocileOrangeCup 05/09/17 12:27:31 AM #3:	it's something in the food alsotooyoung --- http://i.imgtc.com/3XIiHAWNS7.jpg http://i.imgtc.com/Aq6lDbu2v1.jpg http://i.imgtc.com/9i2uPgPsT3.jpg http://i.imgtc.com/BWXmiPQqOV gamefaqs.com/boards/1377- <cite>DocileOrangeCup posted [p:878742070] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote>it's something in the food alsotooyoung</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
smoliske 05/09/17 12:27:42 AM #4:	With all of that, when Kai turned 4, I finally let her transition. There was still fear and confusion. I was defying the societal and cultural expectations of our community, family and friends. But I knew I had to choose to accept my daughter exactly the way God created her — and there was also a beautiful freedom in that. A few weeks after I stopped punishing Kai for "acting girly," she put on a wizard robe she'd received as a birthday gift, making it her "first dress." She stole my headband to make a belt and pulled her hair forward as much as possible. When I look back at photos of that day, I have mixed emotions: Regret that I made her suffer so long. Pride for what a tough cookie she is. Respect for such a young child to teach me unconditional love. And then I just laugh, like, how could I not tell this kid is a girl? While my biggest personal struggle was the choice to let Kai, now 6, transition, my greatest trial as a woman of faith has been the persecution I've received from other Christians. Family members, friends and church members have judged our family and ostracized us to the point that we've considered moving. I'm so disappointed in the hatred they call "love the sinner, hate the sin." You cannot have fresh water and salt water from the same spring. But despite the ignorance and hurtful words of others, I choose to arm myself with knowledge. My child is at the highest risk of suicide and/or being murdered in a hate crime. I have surrounded my family with transgender men and women who are leaders in the community. They encourage Kai to be proud of who she is and where she comes from. We're building a stronger community together. When Kai was finally allowed to be her true self, she blossomed. I put princess panties in her drawer and she fell to the ground, hugging those panties and sobbing, saying, "Thank you, Mommy, thank you." Within a few short weeks of letting her transition, she was no longer lying, no bed-wetting, no more nightmares. I now have a happy, healthy, outgoing, loving, beautiful, sweet little girl who loves Jesus and loves her brothers. Yes, the emotional challenge has been great, but I'd rather face that challenge myself than have my child face it alone like so many transgender children have to because their parents won't let them transition. There's never been a moment of doubt or regret after making the choice to let Kai transition. I've learned too much about identity and faith in loving my beautiful daughter exactly the way she is. She's a loud, happy and joyful girl who expects that everybody's going to be kind and good. It's her persistent spirit that has enabled her to transition so young. She knows who she is and has no problem making sure that everyone else knows too. <cite>smoliske posted [p:878742076] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><quote>With all of that, when Kai turned 4, I finally let her transition. There was still fear and confusion. I was defying the societal and cultural expectations of our community, family and friends. But I knew I had to choose to accept my daughter exactly the way God created her — and there was also a beautiful freedom in that. A few weeks after I stopped punishing Kai for "acting girly," she put on a wizard robe she'd received as a birthday gift, making it her "first dress." She stole my headband to make a belt and pulled her hair forward as much as possible. When I look back at photos of that day, I have mixed emotions: Regret that I made her suffer so long. Pride for what a tough cookie she is. Respect for such a young child to teach me unconditional love. And then I just laugh, like, how could I not tell this kid is a girl? While my biggest personal struggle was the choice to let Kai, now 6, transition, my greatest trial as a woman of faith has been the persecution I've received from other Christians. Family members, friends and church members have judged our family and ostracized us to the point that we've considered moving. I'm so disappointed in the hatred they call "love the sinner, hate the sin." You cannot have fresh water and salt water from the same spring. But despite the ignorance and hurtful words of others, I choose to arm myself with knowledge. My child is at the highest risk of suicide and/or being murdered in a hate crime. I have surrounded my family with transgender men and women who are leaders in the community. They encourage Kai to be proud of who she is and where she comes from. We're building a stronger community together. When Kai was finally allowed to be her true self, she blossomed. I put princess panties in her drawer and she fell to the ground, hugging those panties and sobbing, saying, "Thank you, Mommy, thank you." Within a few short weeks of letting her transition, she was no longer lying, no bed-wetting, no more nightmares. I now have a happy, healthy, outgoing, loving, beautiful, sweet little girl who loves Jesus and loves her brothers. Yes, the emotional challenge has been great, but I'd rather face that challenge myself than have my child face it alone like so many transgender children have to because their parents won't let them transition. There's never been a moment of doubt or regret after making the choice to let Kai transition. I've learned too much about identity and faith in loving my beautiful daughter exactly the way she is. She's a loud, happy and joyful girl who expects that everybody's going to be kind and good. It's her persistent spirit that has enabled her to transition so young. She knows who she is and has no problem making sure that everyone else knows too. </quote> </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PiOverlord 05/09/17 12:30:31 AM #5:	Okay, this is why the transgender community is not getting support. What the hell! --- Number of legendary 500 post topics: 26, 500th posts: 15; PiO ATTN: 2 Thank the lord, the PiOverlord! RotM wins 1 <cite>PiOverlord posted [p:878742198] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote>Okay, this is why the transgender community is not getting support. What the hell!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Microwaved_Eggs 05/09/17 12:31:23 AM #6:	PiOverlord posted... Okay, this is why the transgender community is not getting support. What the hell! what's wrong? no medical transition or anything dude. Sad! --- No rights reserved. <cite>Microwaved_Eggs posted [p:878742237] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Okay, this is why the transgender community is not getting support. What the hell!</quote> what's wrong? no medical transition or anything dude. Sad!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 05/09/17 12:32:29 AM #7:	inb4CEsaystooyoung --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:878742296] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote>inb4CEsaystooyoung</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 05/09/17 12:33:55 AM #8:	PiOverlord posted... Okay, this is why the transgender community is not getting support. What the hell! "How dare this mother place value in the happiness and life of her child above upholding false narratives regarding gender" --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:878742360] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Okay, this is why the transgender community is not getting support. What the hell!</quote> "How dare this mother place value in the happiness and life of her child above upholding false narratives regarding gender"</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_Rinku_ 05/09/17 12:35:38 AM #9:	PiOverlord posted... Okay, this is why the transgender community is not getting support. What the hell! Explain yourself. What on Earth do you take issue with here? <cite>_Rinku_ posted [p:878742443] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Okay, this is why the transgender community is not getting support. What the hell!</quote> Explain yourself. What on Earth do you take issue with here?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
alexg1989 05/09/17 12:41:58 AM #10:	gunplagirl posted... PiOverlord posted... Okay, this is why the transgender community is not getting support. What the hell! "How dare this mother place value in the happiness and life of her child above upholding false narratives regarding gender" That's the thing though, she's encouraging false narratives about gender and allowing her son's mind to be warped. --- Check my MUSIC http://m.youtube.com/channel/UCFSZPGv1OYn94A5L_KHuiuw <cite>alexg1989 posted [p:878742742] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Okay, this is why the transgender community is not getting support. What the hell!</quote> "How dare this mother place value in the happiness and life of her child above upholding false narratives regarding gender"</quote> That's the thing though, she's encouraging false narratives about gender and allowing her son's mind to be warped.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
TheVipaGTS 05/09/17 12:44:17 AM #11:	Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet. <cite>TheVipaGTS posted [p:878742862] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote>Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 05/09/17 12:47:32 AM #12:	alexg1989 posted... gunplagirl posted... PiOverlord posted... Okay, this is why the transgender community is not getting support. What the hell! "How dare this mother place value in the happiness and life of her child above upholding false narratives regarding gender" That's the thing though, she's encouraging false narratives about gender and allowing her son's mind to be warped. Transgender people exist --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:878742988] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>alexg1989 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Okay, this is why the transgender community is not getting support. What the hell!</quote> "How dare this mother place value in the happiness and life of her child above upholding false narratives regarding gender"</quote> That's the thing though, she's encouraging false narratives about gender and allowing her son's mind to be warped.</quote> Transgender people exist</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Capn Circus 05/09/17 12:48:00 AM #13:	Since the OP isn't stating the source, this is from goodhousekeeping.com, owned by the mainstream leftist Hearst Communications. Put on your dresses and get ready for dinner. --- "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks <cite>Capn Circus posted [p:878743007] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote>Since the OP isn't stating the source, this is from goodhousekeeping.com, owned by the mainstream leftist Hearst Communications. Put on your dresses and get ready for dinner.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DDoS 05/09/17 12:48:16 AM #14:	It's hard to believe he came to that realization by himself within 18 months of life. What could have possibly affected the decision in such a short period of time? <cite>DDoS posted [p:878743018] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote>It's hard to believe he came to that realization by himself within 18 months of life. What could have possibly affected the decision in such a short period of time?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 05/09/17 12:48:49 AM #15:	TheVipaGTS posted... Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet. Did you not read the article or behaviors at all? All are very strong signs of gender inconsistency with respect to the assigned birth gender. And they were consistent for years. No fluctuations at all. Actually, they got more and more powerful as time went by. --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:878743049] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>TheVipaGTS posted...</cite> <quote>Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet.</quote> Did you not read the article or behaviors at all? All are very strong signs of gender inconsistency with respect to the assigned birth gender. And they were consistent for years. No fluctuations at all. Actually, they got more and more powerful as time went by.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 05/09/17 12:49:39 AM #16:	DDoS posted... It's hard to believe he came to that realization by himself within 18 months of life. What could have possibly affected the decision in such a short period of time? Transgender people, like other people, are generally cognizant by that period. --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:878743082] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>DDoS posted...</cite> <quote>It's hard to believe he came to that realization by himself within 18 months of life. What could have possibly affected the decision in such a short period of time?</quote> Transgender people, like other people, are generally cognizant by that period.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PiOverlord 05/09/17 12:53:05 AM #17:	Do y'all really think a 3.5 year old realizes that they are the wrong gender?!? --- Number of legendary 500 post topics: 26, 500th posts: 15; PiO ATTN: 2 Thank the lord, the PiOverlord! RotM wins 1 <cite>PiOverlord posted [p:878743205] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote>Do y'all really think a 3.5 year old realizes that they are the wrong gender?!?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_Rinku_ 05/09/17 12:53:09 AM #18:	TheVipaGTS posted... Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet. If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with. <cite>_Rinku_ posted [p:878743211] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>TheVipaGTS posted...</cite> <quote>Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet.</quote> If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
alexg1989 05/09/17 12:53:41 AM #19:	gunplagirl posted... alexg1989 posted... gunplagirl posted... PiOverlord posted... Okay, this is why the transgender community is not getting support. What the hell! "How dare this mother place value in the happiness and life of her child above upholding false narratives regarding gender" That's the thing though, she's encouraging false narratives about gender and allowing her son's mind to be warped. Transgender people exist So do Siamese twins. However we aren't calling them a new species are we? --- Check my MUSIC http://m.youtube.com/channel/UCFSZPGv1OYn94A5L_KHuiuw <cite>alexg1989 posted [p:878743228] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>alexg1989 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Okay, this is why the transgender community is not getting support. What the hell!</quote> "How dare this mother place value in the happiness and life of her child above upholding false narratives regarding gender"</quote> That's the thing though, she's encouraging false narratives about gender and allowing her son's mind to be warped.</quote> Transgender people exist</quote> So do Siamese twins. However we aren't calling them a new species are we?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
alexg1989 05/09/17 12:54:25 AM #20:	_Rinku_ posted... TheVipaGTS posted... Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet. If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with. God I fucking hate you... --- Check my MUSIC http://m.youtube.com/channel/UCFSZPGv1OYn94A5L_KHuiuw <cite>alexg1989 posted [p:878743263] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>_Rinku_ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>TheVipaGTS posted...</cite> <quote>Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet.</quote> If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with.</quote> God I fucking hate you...</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
PiOverlord 05/09/17 12:54:54 AM #21:	_Rinku_ posted... TheVipaGTS posted... Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet. If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with. Alrighty bud. You are only hurting the LGBT community with this mindset. --- Number of legendary 500 post topics: 26, 500th posts: 15; PiO ATTN: 2 Thank the lord, the PiOverlord! RotM wins 1 <cite>PiOverlord posted [p:878743290] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>_Rinku_ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>TheVipaGTS posted...</cite> <quote>Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet.</quote> If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with.</quote> Alrighty bud. You are only hurting the LGBT community with this mindset.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Capn Circus 05/09/17 1:00:15 AM #22:	_Rinku_ posted... TheVipaGTS posted... Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet. If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with. And then what? You turn into some sort of zombie where you don't even know what's going on or what you're feeling? Because you're all of a sudden 13 years old wearing skirts, taking hormone blockers, taking estrogen as a male, etc. etc. Even many people who "transition" don't even end up happy. --- "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks <cite>Capn Circus posted [p:878743541] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>_Rinku_ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>TheVipaGTS posted...</cite> <quote>Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet.</quote> If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with.</quote> And then what? You turn into some sort of zombie where you don't even know what's going on or what you're feeling? Because you're all of a sudden 13 years old wearing skirts, taking hormone blockers, taking estrogen as a male, etc. etc. Even many people who "transition" don't even end up happy.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DDoS 05/09/17 1:06:07 AM #23:	gunplagirl posted... Transgender people, like other people, are generally cognizant by that period. I don't believe he was born a transgender. If gender identity is a social construct then it's learned from the environment and cannot be inherited through birth. That raises the question what made him choose the female identity so early and amidst majority opinion. <cite>DDoS posted [p:878743766] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote>Transgender people, like other people, are generally cognizant by that period.</quote> I don't believe he was born a transgender. If gender identity is a social construct then it's learned from the environment and cannot be inherited through birth. That raises the question what made him choose the female identity so early and amidst majority opinion.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 05/09/17 1:07:02 AM #24:	Capn Circus posted... _Rinku_ posted... TheVipaGTS posted... Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet. If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with. And then what? You turn into some sort of zombie where you don't even know what's going on or what you're feeling? Because you're all of a sudden 13 years old wearing skirts, taking hormone blockers, taking estrogen as a male, etc. etc. Even many people who "transition" don't even end up happy. Most actually are happy with themselves after transitioning begins. However, due to external abuses suffered (such as being targeted for violent crimes, discrimination in jobs and apartments with zero legal recourse in most states, constant threats of violence, oh and of course being banned from bathrooms), it becomes incredibly difficult to live a happy life in a generalized sense. --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:878743802] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>Capn Circus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>_Rinku_ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>TheVipaGTS posted...</cite> <quote>Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet.</quote> If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with.</quote> And then what? You turn into some sort of zombie where you don't even know what's going on or what you're feeling? Because you're all of a sudden 13 years old wearing skirts, taking hormone blockers, taking estrogen as a male, etc. etc. Even many people who "transition" don't even end up happy.</quote> Most actually are happy with themselves after transitioning begins. However, due to external abuses suffered (such as being targeted for violent crimes, discrimination in jobs and apartments with zero legal recourse in most states, constant threats of violence, oh and of course being banned from bathrooms), it becomes incredibly difficult to live a happy life in a generalized sense.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Capn Circus 05/09/17 1:09:12 AM #25:	gunplagirl posted... Capn Circus posted... _Rinku_ posted... TheVipaGTS posted... Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet. If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with. And then what? You turn into some sort of zombie where you don't even know what's going on or what you're feeling? Because you're all of a sudden 13 years old wearing skirts, taking hormone blockers, taking estrogen as a male, etc. etc. Even many people who "transition" don't even end up happy. Most actually are happy with themselves after transitioning begins. However, due to external abuses suffered (such as being targeted for violent crimes, discrimination in jobs and apartments with zero legal recourse in most states, constant threats of violence, oh and of course being banned from bathrooms), it becomes incredibly difficult to live a happy life in a generalized sense. You forgot the main factor: Actual men (or actual women) not wanting to date someone who isn't an actual male or actual woman. --- "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks <cite>Capn Circus posted [p:878743883] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Capn Circus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>_Rinku_ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>TheVipaGTS posted...</cite> <quote>Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet.</quote> If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with.</quote> And then what? You turn into some sort of zombie where you don't even know what's going on or what you're feeling? Because you're all of a sudden 13 years old wearing skirts, taking hormone blockers, taking estrogen as a male, etc. etc. Even many people who "transition" don't even end up happy.</quote> Most actually are happy with themselves after transitioning begins. However, due to external abuses suffered (such as being targeted for violent crimes, discrimination in jobs and apartments with zero legal recourse in most states, constant threats of violence, oh and of course being banned from bathrooms), it becomes incredibly difficult to live a happy life in a generalized sense.</quote> You forgot the main factor: Actual men (or actual women) not wanting to date someone who isn't an actual male or actual woman.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 05/09/17 1:10:57 AM #26:	DDoS posted... gunplagirl posted... Transgender people, like other people, are generally cognizant by that period. I don't believe he was born a transgender. If gender identity is a social construct then it's learned from the environment and cannot be inherited through birth. That raises the question what made him choose the female identity so early and amidst majority opinion. Gender, that is how they are labeled, is a social construct. As is gender expression, how one portrays themselves within a gender (for instance, femme, masc, butch, androgynous). However! Gender identity is set before birth. It may be fluid to some degree however, but that's veering into a different topic. --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:878743945] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>DDoS posted...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote>Transgender people, like other people, are generally cognizant by that period.</quote> I don't believe he was born a transgender. If gender identity is a social construct then it's learned from the environment and cannot be inherited through birth. That raises the question what made him choose the female identity so early and amidst majority opinion.</quote> Gender, that is how they are labeled, is a social construct. As is gender expression, how one portrays themselves within a gender (for instance, femme, masc, butch, androgynous). However! Gender identity is set before birth. It may be fluid to some degree however, but that's veering into a different topic.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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gunplagirl 05/09/17 1:13:27 AM #28:	Capn Circus posted... gunplagirl posted... Capn Circus posted... _Rinku_ posted... TheVipaGTS posted... Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet. If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with. And then what? You turn into some sort of zombie where you don't even know what's going on or what you're feeling? Because you're all of a sudden 13 years old wearing skirts, taking hormone blockers, taking estrogen as a male, etc. etc. Even many people who "transition" don't even end up happy. Most actually are happy with themselves after transitioning begins. However, due to external abuses suffered (such as being targeted for violent crimes, discrimination in jobs and apartments with zero legal recourse in most states, constant threats of violence, oh and of course being banned from bathrooms), it becomes incredibly difficult to live a happy life in a generalized sense. You forgot the main factor: Actual men (or actual women) not wanting to date someone who isn't an actual male or actual woman. "Actual" In truth, only transgender people ever have to validate their gender identities, in a self-actualized way. So actually, only trans women are women. Do you know any cis women who have had to demonstrate to doctors and therapists repeatedly and consistently over the course of years that they are indeed women, without relying on simply stating the gender identity that their parents assigned them at birth? --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:878744029] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>Capn Circus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Capn Circus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>_Rinku_ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>TheVipaGTS posted...</cite> <quote>Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet.</quote> If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with.</quote> And then what? You turn into some sort of zombie where you don't even know what's going on or what you're feeling? Because you're all of a sudden 13 years old wearing skirts, taking hormone blockers, taking estrogen as a male, etc. etc. Even many people who "transition" don't even end up happy.</quote> Most actually are happy with themselves after transitioning begins. However, due to external abuses suffered (such as being targeted for violent crimes, discrimination in jobs and apartments with zero legal recourse in most states, constant threats of violence, oh and of course being banned from bathrooms), it becomes incredibly difficult to live a happy life in a generalized sense.</quote> You forgot the main factor: Actual men (or actual women) not wanting to date someone who isn't an actual male or actual woman.</quote> "Actual" In truth, only transgender people ever have to validate their gender identities, in a self-actualized way. So actually, only trans women are women. Do you know any cis women who have had to demonstrate to doctors and therapists repeatedly and consistently over the course of years that they are indeed women, without relying on simply stating the gender identity that their parents assigned them at birth?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 05/09/17 1:14:41 AM #29:	Also, I know way more lesbians than straight or bi trans women. --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:878744064] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote>Also, I know way more lesbians than straight or bi trans women.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
WafflehouseJK 05/09/17 1:22:25 AM #30:	The real issue is our society's insistence on clinging to gender roles. The mother trying to essentially force her child to be a boy by dressing them up in camouflage and making them play with super hero toys and shit like that is a big part of the problem. Just let the child do what they want, wear what they want, and play with what they want. That stuff has nothing to do with gender, just individual, personal preference. Stop putting people in this dumbass bubble of "Oh, my son likes playing with barbies? He must really be a girl!" I played with barbies when I was a kid. I dressed up as a purple butterfly for Halloween once, and shit, I think I even once wore a tutu when I was like, 4. I still very much consider myself a guy, and am straight. Yes, there are actual cases of gender misidentity, but I personally feel like it's less common than people are making it out to be. Too often it's parents having this misguided idea that just because a boy doesn't act "manly" enough or a girl doesn't act "girly" enough, they must be a completely different gender. Like, holy fuck, just let them be them. Stop trying to put them into little bubbles because of your backwards ideas of what boys and girls are "supposed" to do. --- "She was like, 'Oh, did you see that firefighter? Hes so cute.' And I was like, Mom, I just got blown up." <cite>WafflehouseJK posted [p:878744340] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote>The real issue is our society's insistence on clinging to gender roles. The mother trying to essentially force her child to be a boy by dressing them up in camouflage and making them play with super hero toys and shit like that is a big part of the problem. Just let the child do what they want, wear what they want, and play with what they want. That stuff has nothing to do with gender, just individual, personal preference. Stop putting people in this dumbass bubble of "Oh, my son likes playing with barbies? He must really be a girl!" I played with barbies when I was a kid. I dressed up as a purple butterfly for Halloween once, and shit, I think I even once wore a tutu when I was like, 4. I still very much consider myself a guy, and am straight. Yes, there are actual cases of gender misidentity, but I personally feel like it's less common than people are making it out to be. Too often it's parents having this misguided idea that just because a boy doesn't act "manly" enough or a girl doesn't act "girly" enough, they must be a completely different gender. Like, holy fuck, just let them be them. Stop trying to put them into little bubbles because of your backwards ideas of what boys and girls are "supposed" to do.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Capn Circus 05/09/17 1:22:50 AM #31:	gunplagirl posted... Capn Circus posted... gunplagirl posted... Capn Circus posted... _Rinku_ posted... TheVipaGTS posted... Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet. If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with. And then what? You turn into some sort of zombie where you don't even know what's going on or what you're feeling? Because you're all of a sudden 13 years old wearing skirts, taking hormone blockers, taking estrogen as a male, etc. etc. Even many people who "transition" don't even end up happy. Most actually are happy with themselves after transitioning begins. However, due to external abuses suffered (such as being targeted for violent crimes, discrimination in jobs and apartments with zero legal recourse in most states, constant threats of violence, oh and of course being banned from bathrooms), it becomes incredibly difficult to live a happy life in a generalized sense. You forgot the main factor: Actual men (or actual women) not wanting to date someone who isn't an actual male or actual woman. "Actual" In truth, only transgender people ever have to validate their gender identities, in a self-actualized way. So actually, only trans women are women. Do you know any cis women who have had to demonstrate to doctors and therapists repeatedly and consistently over the course of years that they are indeed women, without relying on simply stating the gender identity that their parents assigned them at birth? I'm not too sure what you're going on about. I'm simply saying you forgot to mention the main factor, which is men who want to be women are still going to be let down because straight men likely will not date them. Their fantasy of being a woman, living as a women, and having a man likely will not come into fruition. A Women to Male probably has it a bit easier, as there are probably some lesbians who may be attracted to that. But still, more or less the same difference. gunplagirl posted... Also, I know way more lesbians than straight or bi trans women. I'm sure some of them aren't that happy, either. --- "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks <cite>Capn Circus posted [p:878744360] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Capn Circus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Capn Circus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>_Rinku_ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>TheVipaGTS posted...</cite> <quote>Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet.</quote> If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with.</quote> And then what? You turn into some sort of zombie where you don't even know what's going on or what you're feeling? Because you're all of a sudden 13 years old wearing skirts, taking hormone blockers, taking estrogen as a male, etc. etc. Even many people who "transition" don't even end up happy.</quote> Most actually are happy with themselves after transitioning begins. However, due to external abuses suffered (such as being targeted for violent crimes, discrimination in jobs and apartments with zero legal recourse in most states, constant threats of violence, oh and of course being banned from bathrooms), it becomes incredibly difficult to live a happy life in a generalized sense.</quote> You forgot the main factor: Actual men (or actual women) not wanting to date someone who isn't an actual male or actual woman.</quote> "Actual" In truth, only transgender people ever have to validate their gender identities, in a self-actualized way. So actually, only trans women are women. Do you know any cis women who have had to demonstrate to doctors and therapists repeatedly and consistently over the course of years that they are indeed women, without relying on simply stating the gender identity that their parents assigned them at birth?</quote> I'm not too sure what you're going on about. I'm simply saying you forgot to mention the main factor, which is men who want to be women are still going to be let down because straight men likely will not date them. Their fantasy of being a woman, living as a women, and having a man likely will not come into fruition. A Women to Male probably has it a bit easier, as there are probably some lesbians who may be attracted to that. But still, more or less the same difference. <cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote>Also, I know way more lesbians than straight or bi trans women.</quote> I'm sure some of them aren't that happy, either.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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gunplagirl 05/09/17 1:27:19 AM #33:	Capn, nobody transitions because they want to date guys. Or girls. They transition because they have gender dysphoria and transitioning is the most effective course of treatment. BTW all research on the subject shows that younger transitioners are far happier. What even are the parameters of how you're measuring happiness? --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:878744508] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote>Capn, nobody transitions because they want to date guys. Or girls. They transition because they have gender dysphoria and transitioning is the most effective course of treatment. BTW all research on the subject shows that younger transitioners are far happier. What even are the parameters of how you're measuring happiness?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Darmik 05/09/17 1:32:21 AM #35:	Why do people think they more about what's going on in this kids brain than the kid and the Mother? Do they have personal experience? I'm guessing no. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:878744662] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote>Why do people think they more about what's going on in this kids brain than the kid and the Mother? Do they have personal experience? I'm guessing no.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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Darmik 05/09/17 1:42:41 AM #37:	Asherlee10 posted... Darmik posted... Do they have personal experience? Well, you don't have to have personal experience. You can back up statements with evidence. Also, there are several transgendered people on CE and some that have experience with them. That at least counts for something. I'm more talking about the people who think it's because of the Mom or that she's too young for her behavior. I think a lot of people refuse to relate to a mind that's developing in a way that they don't understand. Happened (still happens?) with homosexuality too. I'll never pretend to understand what it's like to go through this. It sounds very complex and complicated to deal with. So it annoys me when people make blanket statements about their lives because they spent two minutes reading an article. The Mom and her daughter live with it every day. So I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Nothing in the article sounds extreme or crazy either. --- Kind Regards, Darmik <cite>Darmik posted [p:878745027] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Darmik posted...</cite> <quote> Do they have personal experience? </quote> Well, you don't have to have personal experience. You can back up statements with evidence. Also, there are several transgendered people on CE and some that have experience with them. That at least counts for something.</quote> I'm more talking about the people who think it's because of the Mom or that she's too young for her behavior. I think a lot of people refuse to relate to a mind that's developing in a way that they don't understand. Happened (still happens?) with homosexuality too. I'll never pretend to understand what it's like to go through this. It sounds very complex and complicated to deal with. So it annoys me when people make blanket statements about their lives because they spent two minutes reading an article. The Mom and her daughter live with it every day. So I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Nothing in the article sounds extreme or crazy either.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Capn Circus 05/09/17 1:44:36 AM #38:	gunplagirl posted... Capn, nobody transitions because they want to date guys. Or girls. They transition because they have gender dysphoria and transitioning is the most effective course of treatment. BTW all research on the subject shows that younger transitioners are far happier. What even are the parameters of how you're measuring happiness? Maybe not specifically because they want to date guys or girls, but gender is part of one's sexual identity as are gender roles. Not only is that something the transgender community has to deal with, but the gay community as well. I think it's disingenuous for you to say the main source of their troubles or pain comes from the outside world through housing discrimination or harassment. Sure, that may be the case sometimes, but the main source of pain comes from within---knowing that they are different and knowing they won't have a "normal" life. For you to completely dismiss that is ridiculous. I'm sure the research on the subject of young transitioners is extremely limited. I doubt there is extended research on <10 year olds who "transitioned" that are now nearing in their late twenties or thirties. --- "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks <cite>Capn Circus posted [p:878745093] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote>Capn, nobody transitions because they want to date guys. Or girls. They transition because they have gender dysphoria and transitioning is the most effective course of treatment. BTW all research on the subject shows that younger transitioners are far happier. What even are the parameters of how you're measuring happiness?</quote> Maybe not specifically because they want to date guys or girls, but gender is part of one's sexual identity as are gender roles. Not only is that something the transgender community has to deal with, but the gay community as well. I think it's disingenuous for you to say the main source of their troubles or pain comes from the outside world through housing discrimination or harassment. Sure, that may be the case sometimes, but the main source of pain comes from within---knowing that they are different and knowing they won't have a "normal" life. For you to completely dismiss that is ridiculous. I'm sure the research on the subject of young transitioners is extremely limited. I doubt there is extended research on <10 year olds who "transitioned" that are now nearing in their late twenties or thirties.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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DDoS 05/09/17 1:46:46 AM #40:	Asherlee10 posted... Gender dysphoria exists. At 18 months? I'd understand if it was school age but naw. Something must have happened. Or the article if exaggerating. gunplagirl posted... Gender, that is how they are labeled, is a social construct. As is gender expression, how one portrays themselves within a gender (for instance, femme, masc, butch, androgynous). However! Gender identity is set before birth. It may be fluid to some degree however, but that's veering into a different topic. Hogwash. Give science a gigantic controlled environment and several centuries of experiments of children raised in a community of a single gender and I'm sure not one of them would believe they are of the opposite sex. <cite>DDoS posted [p:878745159] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>Gender dysphoria exists.</quote> At 18 months? I'd understand if it was school age but naw. Something must have happened. Or the article if exaggerating. <cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote>Gender, that is how they are labeled, is a social construct. As is gender expression, how one portrays themselves within a gender (for instance, femme, masc, butch, androgynous). However! Gender identity is set before birth. It may be fluid to some degree however, but that's veering into a different topic.</quote> Hogwash. Give science a gigantic controlled environment and several centuries of experiments of children raised in a community of a single gender and I'm sure not one of them would believe they are of the opposite sex.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
gunplagirl 05/09/17 1:48:04 AM #41:	Capn Circus posted... gunplagirl posted... Capn, nobody transitions because they want to date guys. Or girls. They transition because they have gender dysphoria and transitioning is the most effective course of treatment. BTW all research on the subject shows that younger transitioners are far happier. What even are the parameters of how you're measuring happiness? Maybe not specifically because they want to date guys or girls, but gender is part of one's sexual identity as are gender roles. Not only is that something the transgender community has to deal with, but the gay community as well. I think it's disingenuous for you to say the main source of their troubles or pain comes from the outside world through housing discrimination or harassment. Sure, that may be the case sometimes, but the main source of pain comes from within---knowing that they are different and knowing they won't have a "normal" life. For you to completely dismiss that is ridiculous. I'm sure the research on the subject of young transitioners is extremely limited. I doubt there is extended research on <10 year olds who "transitioned" that are now nearing in their late twenties or thirties. So being discriminated against has zero impact upon their ability to live a "normal" life? And there's plenty who are in their 20s by now. --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:878745190] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>Capn Circus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote>Capn, nobody transitions because they want to date guys. Or girls. They transition because they have gender dysphoria and transitioning is the most effective course of treatment. BTW all research on the subject shows that younger transitioners are far happier. What even are the parameters of how you're measuring happiness?</quote> Maybe not specifically because they want to date guys or girls, but gender is part of one's sexual identity as are gender roles. Not only is that something the transgender community has to deal with, but the gay community as well. I think it's disingenuous for you to say the main source of their troubles or pain comes from the outside world through housing discrimination or harassment. Sure, that may be the case sometimes, but the main source of pain comes from within---knowing that they are different and knowing they won't have a "normal" life. For you to completely dismiss that is ridiculous. I'm sure the research on the subject of young transitioners is extremely limited. I doubt there is extended research on <10 year olds who "transitioned" that are now nearing in their late twenties or thirties.</quote> So being discriminated against has zero impact upon their ability to live a "normal" life? And there's plenty who are in their 20s by now.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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gunplagirl 05/09/17 1:50:41 AM #43:	DDoS posted... Asherlee10 posted... Gender dysphoria exists. At 18 months? I'd understand if it was school age but naw. Something must have happened. Or the article if exaggerating. gunplagirl posted... Gender, that is how they are labeled, is a social construct. As is gender expression, how one portrays themselves within a gender (for instance, femme, masc, butch, androgynous). However! Gender identity is set before birth. It may be fluid to some degree however, but that's veering into a different topic. Hogwash. Give science a gigantic controlled environment and several centuries of experiments of children raised in a community of a single gender and I'm sure not one of them would believe they are of the opposite sex. So to refute things that are academically being accepted and treated as truths, to the benefit of patients no less, you bring up a hypothetical that cannot ever even be performed. Oh plus there's that David Reimer case as an a example of forcing an identity on somebody only to have them revert to their actual one. --- Pokemon Moon FC: 1994-2190-5020 IGN: Vanessa <cite>gunplagirl posted [p:878745286] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>DDoS posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote>Gender dysphoria exists.</quote> At 18 months? I'd understand if it was school age but naw. Something must have happened. Or the article if exaggerating. <cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote>Gender, that is how they are labeled, is a social construct. As is gender expression, how one portrays themselves within a gender (for instance, femme, masc, butch, androgynous). However! Gender identity is set before birth. It may be fluid to some degree however, but that's veering into a different topic.</quote> Hogwash. Give science a gigantic controlled environment and several centuries of experiments of children raised in a community of a single gender and I'm sure not one of them would believe they are of the opposite sex.</quote> So to refute things that are academically being accepted and treated as truths, to the benefit of patients no less, you bring up a hypothetical that cannot ever even be performed. Oh plus there's that David Reimer case as an a example of forcing an identity on somebody only to have them revert to their actual one.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Capn Circus 05/09/17 1:53:20 AM #44:	Asherlee10 posted... Capn Circus posted... I'm simply saying you forgot to mention the main factor, which is men who want to be women are still going to be let down because straight men likely will not date them. Their fantasy of being a woman, living as a women, and having a man likely will not come into fruition. I don't know why you think this is an issue. There are plenty of people that have no problems dating someone that transitioned. Going further, the end goal isn't about finding a partner, it's about making their brain match their body and being happy. I don't necessarily have a problem with it. I'm mostly tired of hearing about it. The rate this is being published online, being discussed on television, being discussed politics, etc. is astronomically higher than the number of people this dysmorphia syndrome effects. I'm also not convinced a one and a half year old baby still in diapers knows that much about gender. --- "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks <cite>Capn Circus posted [p:878745380] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>Asherlee10 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Capn Circus posted...</cite> <quote>I'm simply saying you forgot to mention the main factor, which is men who want to be women are still going to be let down because straight men likely will not date them. Their fantasy of being a woman, living as a women, and having a man likely will not come into fruition. </quote> I don't know why you think this is an issue. There are plenty of people that have no problems dating someone that transitioned. Going further, the end goal isn't about finding a partner, it's about making their brain match their body and being happy.</quote> I don't necessarily have a problem with it. I'm mostly tired of hearing about it. The rate this is being published online, being discussed on television, being discussed politics, etc. is astronomically higher than the number of people this dysmorphia syndrome effects. I'm also not convinced a one and a half year old baby still in diapers knows that much about gender.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Capn Circus 05/09/17 2:15:38 AM #45:	gunplagirl posted... Capn Circus posted... gunplagirl posted... Capn, nobody transitions because they want to date guys. Or girls. They transition because they have gender dysphoria and transitioning is the most effective course of treatment. BTW all research on the subject shows that younger transitioners are far happier. What even are the parameters of how you're measuring happiness? Maybe not specifically because they want to date guys or girls, but gender is part of one's sexual identity as are gender roles. Not only is that something the transgender community has to deal with, but the gay community as well. I think it's disingenuous for you to say the main source of their troubles or pain comes from the outside world through housing discrimination or harassment. Sure, that may be the case sometimes, but the main source of pain comes from within---knowing that they are different and knowing they won't have a "normal" life. For you to completely dismiss that is ridiculous. I'm sure the research on the subject of young transitioners is extremely limited. I doubt there is extended research on <10 year olds who "transitioned" that are now nearing in their late twenties or thirties. So being discriminated against has zero impact upon their ability to live a "normal" life? And there's plenty who are in their 20s by now. I'm not saying it's a zero impact. But it's the only examples that you gave, while completely ignoring the major elephant in the room, which is their own struggle with identity, feelings, emotions, and their place in the world. Much of that has nothing to do with external factors, at least nothing that can be significantly changed. Same thing with gays and lesbians. Despite the fact marriage is legal, acceptance is increasing, there are still internal struggles to be had that have nothing to do with discrimination. Also, if you post some research of individuals that are 25+ that transitioned before they were 10 years old, I'll gladly read it tomorrow (I'm fixing to go to bed). --- "I think that man will be president right about the time when spaceships come down filled with dinosaurs in red capes" - Tom Hanks <cite>Capn Circus posted [p:878746056] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>Capn Circus posted...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote>Capn, nobody transitions because they want to date guys. Or girls. They transition because they have gender dysphoria and transitioning is the most effective course of treatment. BTW all research on the subject shows that younger transitioners are far happier. What even are the parameters of how you're measuring happiness?</quote> Maybe not specifically because they want to date guys or girls, but gender is part of one's sexual identity as are gender roles. Not only is that something the transgender community has to deal with, but the gay community as well. I think it's disingenuous for you to say the main source of their troubles or pain comes from the outside world through housing discrimination or harassment. Sure, that may be the case sometimes, but the main source of pain comes from within---knowing that they are different and knowing they won't have a "normal" life. For you to completely dismiss that is ridiculous. I'm sure the research on the subject of young transitioners is extremely limited. I doubt there is extended research on <10 year olds who "transitioned" that are now nearing in their late twenties or thirties.</quote> So being discriminated against has zero impact upon their ability to live a "normal" life? And there's plenty who are in their 20s by now.</quote> I'm not saying it's a zero impact. But it's the only examples that you gave, while completely ignoring the major elephant in the room, which is their own struggle with identity, feelings, emotions, and their place in the world. Much of that has nothing to do with external factors, at least nothing that can be significantly changed. Same thing with gays and lesbians. Despite the fact marriage is legal, acceptance is increasing, there are still internal struggles to be had that have nothing to do with discrimination. Also, if you post some research of individuals that are 25+ that transitioned before they were 10 years old, I'll gladly read it tomorrow (I'm fixing to go to bed).</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_Rinku_ 05/09/17 2:39:08 AM #46:	alexg1989 posted... _Rinku_ posted... TheVipaGTS posted... Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet. If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with. God I fucking hate you... Why, because I won't misgender someone? You must have an awful lot of hatred in your heart then. I hope someday you can be a happier person. <cite>_Rinku_ posted [p:878746777] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>alexg1989 posted...</cite> <quote><cite>_Rinku_ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>TheVipaGTS posted...</cite> <quote>Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet.</quote> If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with.</quote> God I fucking hate you...</quote> Why, because I won't misgender someone? You must have an awful lot of hatred in your heart then. I hope someday you can be a happier person.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_Rinku_ 05/09/17 3:34:22 AM #48:	alexg1989 posted... You're encouraging a fucking mental illness dude. I don't particularly care if some adult decides he or she wants to dress and act like the opposite gender, but don't fucking encourage that shit in kids, and especially don't impede puberty. What the fuck kind of shit is that? In this case, you're encouraging a child's delusions. If a kid thinks he can fly, you wouldn't tell him to jump out a fucking window, but you'd let him fuck himself up for life with ridiculous ideas that he could become another gender? 1. It is easier to transition if you don't go through the "wrong" puberty. It's much easier to pass as a woman if you never develop an Adam's apple (or to pass as a man if you never develop wide hips). You can always stop the hormone blockers and puberty will happen as normal. I don't understand your issue here. 2. Gender dysphoria is a mental illnes and transition is the treatment 3. The fact that you would compare letting someone be who they are to physically hurting themselves for no reason? Really just shows how transphobic you are. <cite>_Rinku_ posted [p:878748307] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>alexg1989 posted...</cite> <quote> You're encouraging a fucking mental illness dude. I don't particularly care if some adult decides he or she wants to dress and act like the opposite gender, but don't fucking encourage that shit in kids, and especially don't impede puberty. What the fuck kind of shit is that? In this case, you're encouraging a child's delusions. If a kid thinks he can fly, you wouldn't tell him to jump out a fucking window, but you'd let him fuck himself up for life with ridiculous ideas that he could become another gender?</quote> 1. It is easier to transition if you don't go through the "wrong" puberty. It's much easier to pass as a woman if you never develop an Adam's apple (or to pass as a man if you never develop wide hips). You can always stop the hormone blockers and puberty will happen as normal. I don't understand your issue here. 2. Gender dysphoria is a mental illnes and transition is the treatment 3. The fact that you would compare letting someone be who they are to physically hurting themselves for no reason? Really just shows how transphobic you are.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
DDoS 05/09/17 3:52:07 AM #49:	gunplagirl posted... So to refute things that are academically being accepted and treated as truths, to the benefit of patients no less, you bring up a hypothetical that cannot ever even be performed. Oh plus there's that David Reimer case as an a example of forcing an identity on somebody only to have them revert to their actual one. It's impossible for a study to prove any of stuff in this day and age since humans are ironically not treated as animals. Exposure to undesirable factors can only be limited. And that Reimer case is full of such factors as well. He never went through with vaginal construction. Nothing says I am a male more than a penis, botched or not, or lack of female genitalia. <cite>DDoS posted [p:878748751] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote>So to refute things that are academically being accepted and treated as truths, to the benefit of patients no less, you bring up a hypothetical that cannot ever even be performed. Oh plus there's that David Reimer case as an a example of forcing an identity on somebody only to have them revert to their actual one.</quote> It's impossible for a study to prove any of stuff in this day and age since humans are ironically not treated as animals. Exposure to undesirable factors can only be limited. And that Reimer case is full of such factors as well. He never went through with vaginal construction. Nothing says I am a male more than a penis, botched or not, or lack of female genitalia.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
scoobydoobydont 05/09/17 4:35:57 AM #50:	gunplagirl posted... PiOverlord posted... Okay, this is why the transgender community is not getting support. What the hell! "How dare this mother place value in the happiness and life of her child above upholding false narratives regarding gender" This. DDoS posted... It's impossible for a study to prove any of stuff in this day and age since humans are ironically not treated as animals. Exposure to undesirable factors can only be limited. And that Reimer case is full of such factors as well. He never went through with vaginal construction. Nothing says I am a male more than a penis, botched or not, or lack of female genitalia. You're ignorant. --- http://i.imgur.com/z16bN1C.gif <cite>scoobydoobydont posted [p:878749754] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>gunplagirl posted...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote>Okay, this is why the transgender community is not getting support. What the hell!</quote> "How dare this mother place value in the happiness and life of her child above upholding false narratives regarding gender"</quote> This. <cite>DDoS posted...</cite> <quote>It's impossible for a study to prove any of stuff in this day and age since humans are ironically not treated as animals. Exposure to undesirable factors can only be limited. And that Reimer case is full of such factors as well. He never went through with vaginal construction. Nothing says I am a male more than a penis, botched or not, or lack of female genitalia.</quote> You're ignorant.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_Rinku_ 05/09/17 5:51:52 AM #51:	PiOverlord posted... _Rinku_ posted... TheVipaGTS posted... Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet. If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with. Alrighty bud. You are only hurting the LGBT community with this mindset. How so, bud? <cite>_Rinku_ posted [p:878751175] in "I Ha... [t:75326585]...</cite> <quote><cite>PiOverlord posted...</cite> <quote><cite>_Rinku_ posted...</cite> <quote><cite>TheVipaGTS posted...</cite> <quote>Yea I support the trans community fully....but that child hasn't developed a mind able to put those thoughts together yet. It's like...kids don't hit puberty until their teens. Someone younger can't know they're gay yet. Liking female things as a young boy isn't a sign of being trans. It's just normal. They don't have the capacity to put all of that together yet.</quote> If you wait until puberty has begun, it's much harder to transition. Best path is social transition, then hormone blockers to delay puberty, and then hormones like estrogen/testosterone. Also, I knew I liked girls from a young age. So did many other guys. But keep on talking like you have any clue what this little girl is dealing with.</quote> Alrighty bud. You are only hurting the LGBT community with this mindset.</quote> How so, bud?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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