Board 8 > Chrono Cross Mafia Topic 3 - Viper Manor: Nikki, Guile, or Pierre?

(+) Yeah! (+)

that is true, altriustic intentions cant change the fact that he claimed not-town

I just dont know why he would give away that he is independent
if an indy is the cop himself, what do they have to fear?

unless he's trying to fish out the actual cop
---

He literally put a giant target on his head. I'm not sure his game there. Maybe he thought mercy would be willed towards him for the scan.
---

also a little question to help me not waste too much time on night2 thoughts
can busdrivers target themselves?
I thought they couldnt
---

some bus drivers can, yes. Some bus drivers only can switch with themselves.

And Red- I figured if I dont crack this game while alive I dont deserve to see the end anyways.
---

I have been scum like... 4 games in a row, and won like all of them. Its just so taxing, and I cant act like scum this game, I just want to come clean and try and win as town like as possible, and if I dont I lose. I am okay with that
---

well the other part of your claim will make it so that scum cant leave you alive for long anyway, so I am okay with you right now
but will look funny at you if you're continuously left alone

(btw as an aside, I just remembered Korcha... ugh, worst character)
---

So Ulti whats your new claim
---

You would have been completely doomed from the start if I were scum, I hope you know this. Would have been a very short replace.
---

UltimaterializerX posted...

I called Scare being scum before he claimed, just FYI.

Can't change an honest claim.

Hey don't leave me hanging. I was right there with you. Now the big question is would a host really give an insane scan to an indy town with a single scan?

Eh, regardless, I don't see any reason to take what Scare says as completely veracious. He fucked up claiming indy this early. His claim also confuses me on the alignments this game. Would there seriously be 5 scum oriented players, one of which is sk, in a game meant for 15 or 16 players? Odds seems heavily against town if that were the case. Two mislynches and town could potentially be down to 4/5 players in by the beginning of day 3. But I digress.

I'm still fully on board with the Oddity lynch right now. Nothing anyone has said has changed that. I could go for a Scare lynch either tomorrow or the following night tbh
---

I was also considering various potential actions that could have occurred last night, and not much about Ulti targeting Shadow makes any sense. I feel 90% confident on calling his bluff.
---

I dont want to think too much about host meta
I trust eaed when he says he balanced the game for 16
---

wait he said he was a oneshot?
I missed that part
also if Scare is trying to save Oddity, he reallly shouldnt have claimed indy
---

red13n posted...

You would have been completely doomed from the start if I were scum, I hope you know this. Would have been a very short replace.

I am pretty sure I was a night 1 kill for you, yes. Definitely over scept.
---

htaeD posted...

I dont want to think too much about host meta
I trust eaed when he says he balanced the game for 16

He was prepared for a 15 player game though. And even 16 players is cutting it extremely close
---

htaeD posted...

wait he said he was a oneshot?
I missed that part
also if Scare is trying to save Oddity, he reallly shouldnt have claimed indy

My theory is that he either is scum and used this ruse as a gamble to save himself for a few more days, or the scan was insane/tampered with and Scare let the fact that he has a scan get to his head as opposed to realizing that it could very easily be wrong.
---

Terra did you take some strange drugs before posting?
---

red13n posted...

Terra did you take some strange drugs before posting?

Care to elaborate? I am half asleep I guess, but besides that I'm fine.
---

ah I see
well now it sounds more like a very convenient claim for Scare

for a second I wondered if he claimed his true role because of his flavor
but survivors should get safelists too
---

Your scenario requires a lot of unlikely things to be true all at once.

Very easily wrong for the scan is not even remotely true. The only chance is he hit godfather on a scum that was already gambitting. Board 8 doesn't see insane cops very often, and we certainly aren't going to see a 1 use insane cop(This is imbalanced). Some made up tampering role is highly unlikely as well.

You are basically banking your logic on a prayer here, for who knows what reason(Using the term logic here was generous).

The reasonable scenarios are: Oddity and Scare are both scum or Ulti is scum. Thinking scum would trade 2 for 1 at this point is, well, more than a little insane.
---

red13n posted...

Your scenario requires a lot of unlikely

red13n posted...

Board 8 doesn't see insane cops very often

That's where your argument falls apart. Also there are other roles that could result in an inaccurate scan. So the "drug" reference is pretty dumb considering the vast amount of potential explanations. I can think of 4 possible scenarios off the top of my head and there are probably more.

And that's only half of my theory. If they truly decided to trade 2 for 1 maybe they had a reason for doing so. Regardless, this is a whole lot of conjecture, so it's silly to try to call people out when there's almost too many potential outcomes that could have occurred. Likely or unlikely it only makes sense to consider them all at least somewhat.
---

Oh terra...

I honestly dont know what to think of you guys sometimes.

reading topic1 in full now
few comments
- did PJ ever explain how he knew so quickly that 3 millers had claimed already? might be important if Ulti flips scum
- there is one part of Oddity I dont like/understand, where he claims VI is making everyone focus on Corrik VS Ulti, when thats not at all the case from what I am reading, comes off as a questionable bit of misreading (in general I am wary of anyone trying to avoid the miller discussion alltogether)
---

Votals
[5] Ulti - Oddity, Scare, PJ, IGCD, Ben
[3] Oddity - Nana, (Ben), Terra, Oddity

Day Ends Saturday 10PM EST. It takes 7 to lynch.
---

I'm around for a whole 15 minutes.
---

ok
Oddity what did you mean with this?

Oddity posted...

I caught up. Not really willing to sort out the 3 miller claims right now. I have to go to work like 5 mins ago. I kind of want to lynch VI for trying to make this a Corrik/Ulti day.

##Vote: VeryInsane

---

didnt mean to bold there
just to be sure
##Unvote
---

His previous comment at that point had been basically pushing corrik/ulti pretty hard. I mean, you say I misread it, but I don't think I did. Unfortunately, now I have to go. See ya later death.
---

eh I didnt think he was that serious about it, mostly just frustrated to point of threatening them to play nice
now I can see where you're coming from, but I dont have any problems with the post
---

benjamin3740 posted...

Terra-enforcer posted...

benjamin3740 posted...

I doubt Oddity is Godather. If he's scum then he's gotta be tracker like he claims. Why go into the whole ordeal of trying to match flavor with your role otherwise?

Godfather isn't even the only scenario in which Scare scans inno. The fact that Scare has been so certain with all of his questionable choices this game, plus not even considering something being wrong with his scan makes him soar up on the scum list imo

Scare and oddity would be like admitting scum team if that is the case.

I look at it as more of a straight up dis towards the CE players, look how easily you are just blindly accepting claims. A cop and "mislabeled tracker," yet you don't question either of their targets
---

benjamin3740 posted...

Problem for me is that Oddity being scum WAS the simplest explanation until the double layered scans came along. I dont really have any real thoughts on the game now except for "Better trust the scans".

Don't ever, "just trust the scans" unless the scanner has flipped
---

Leafeon13N posted...

Oddity being scum was never the simple explanation. It was literally assuming he was somehow making a 1 for 1 play in a needlessly stupid way.

You seem to not understand the concept of simple in the slightest.

So oddity was doing the same thing Ulti is apparently doing but you think he's town but ulti is scum, seems contradictory to me.
---

Everyone saying "trust the simplest explanation" is literally ignoring the simplest explanation that is
Sceptile killed Shadow
Mafia killed Sceptile
Mafia janitored Corrik.

If a bus driver hadn't flipped, players like Scare, Red, etc wouldn't even be entertaining the idea of kills being switched around.

There are 105 possible combinations of targets a bus driver has. The only way this is anything BUT TE above only happens in 1 of those.

Scare's scan doesn't mean anything if he truly is indy survivor cop. There's no guarantee that his scan isn't a "Hey Mafia, I got your back yo."

Did I miss Scare's flavor claim?
---

So does anybody else think the track could be bugged?


Seems like OP Town so I figure scum has OP stuff too
---

Posting from work briefly. Time to seal my fate I guess. I was role blocked and was gambitting my track on ulti. No longer so sure he's scum. I think red, terra, and possibly scare look bad if ulti is town. Literally have no time to explain cuzco I'm at work.

##Unvote

Feared the hammer.
---

I'm bored, so I will make a statement to prove my point that this game is silly broken and you shouldn't take anything at face value because the odds Pddity's scan is tampered is really high

I had a 1 use, Night 0 flavor scan on Ulti. I got a Acacia Bellflower, which is a trademark item for Riddel. I never pursued him and stated I thought he was Town quite a few times

So yeah; a game with literally night 0 scans. I doubt Oddity's scan is 100% the truth
---

Oh lol

There you go. Ulti's Town.

Get off him you fuckers
---

Really wish I read that sooner Oddity

You turned this day from complicated into pretty easy

##vote: red
---

Actually I'm tempted to call for a

MASS CLAIM CHOO CHOO

Why not?
---

oh
well that explains away my question of 'why/how would scumUlti target Shadow'

and that was unfortunate timing for you VI
on the other hand I like that Oddity revealed his bluff before you came out with your info, so there is that
---

VeryInsane posted...

Actually I'm tempted to call for a

MASS CLAIM CHOO CHOO

Why not?

normally I'd say 'hold on a second'
but with all these powers outed, we might as well!
---

if Oddity and Ulti are both town, we should definitely look at anyone who wanted the day to end early (which apparently was called out for, before someone mentioned that I hadnt shown up yet)

and also anyone who sat on the sidelines
---

Changing my mind

##unvote:
##vote:Terra
---

though if I think about it
its not really a good bluff from Oddity, seeing as scum probably would know that Oddity was RBed, so Ulti wouldnt be affraid of Oddity anyway (if he's ever known fear to begin with)

but it still was a decent reaction from Ulti all things told
---

This game.

That was really a mess of claims, but I trust VI. And Oddity had no reason to give up on Ulti, unless he really was gambiting for the good of town. He revealed it BEFORE VI's claim afterall. Not sure what to think about Scare. I'm of the mindset of always lynching scum before survivors, but I'm not fond of leashing survivors either

##Unvote
---

@Sheep007

You still want PJ dead?
---

some math here
assuming 3 scum + 2 indies is the setup

basically 4 nontowns and 8 towns alive right now
if we mislynch twice, thats 4 towns and 4 nontowns on day4
so we only get 2 chances to lynch Scare, I dont think we need to do it today, but we should remember there's a timelimit on survivors
---

Dont like Nana and Red taking such firm stances on either side of the game (Nana saying Oddity is the only one we should lynch while Red says Ulti), trying to steer the game really hard that way, and also having little interaction with each other despite their opposing stances.

Also dont like Sheep but what's new. Time stamps say he's been around and was online like 15 minutes ago, and yet he hasnt posted since that vote at the end of day 1 that i didnt like. Feel like he was avoiding talkijg during Oddity VS Ulti
---

to be fair, on a day like this it would be stupid to pursue anyone but Oddity/Scare or Ulti

that is, before Oddity claimed that he didnt have info after all
---

benjamin3740 posted...

Dont like Nana and Red taking such firm stances on either side of the game (Nana saying Oddity is the only one we should lynch while Red says Ulti), trying to steer the game really hard that way, and also having little interaction with each other despite their opposing stances.

Also dont like Sheep but what's new. Time stamps say he's been around and was online like 15 minutes ago, and yet he hasnt posted since that vote at the end of day 1 that i didnt like. Feel like he was avoiding talkijg during Oddity VS Ulti

I'm 100% positive I said I was comfortable lynching you. I implied I was fine lynching Scare, but I guess that isn't obvious.
---