Board 8 > Chrono Cross Mafia Topic 4 - To get Hydra Humor or not?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Alright, first I'm going to post a defense because, frankly, I'm pissed that people are still so fucking suspicious of me. Have I played a good game? Not really, but how does scum-me make any kind of fucking sense.

Around topic 2 posts 400 - 500 Scare blatantly talks about his distrust of me. In fact when I suggest a Shadow b8 special he says this

ScareChan posted...

I would special shadow if anyone besides you offered to do so

Then beginning of day topic 2 post 133 as soon as I reveal my fake scan of ulti what happens?

ScareChan posted...

I buy Oddity

Followed by topic 2 post 178

ScareChan posted...

Lets just lynch Ulti

it will also help clear oddity

It's almost like he's done a complete 180 on what he thought of me at the end of day yesterday. As if... as if he had a SCAN!

Oh wait, is that topic 3 post 246 I see?

ScareChan posted...

Okay cool Terra and Ben are scum


I scanned Oddity innocent last night

After that he claims indie because he believes my scan is 100% true and I wasn't gambiting. So if that's the case, he's helped bury 3 scum and survivor is in a prime position to ride town's coat tails to a win.

If you believe I'm scum, you at least have to believe I'm godfather or that scare was insane. His actions don't line up otherwise.
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Alright here's the player list:

Town

ben - I have no specific posts to point to here, he just feels a lot like he did in mercs to me. ben and I soulread each other last game in precisely this manner, so I'm comfortable calling him town.
Nana - Apparently some sort of power (pretty sure I know which one too), also he apparently is not straying at all from his town play. Makes it all the more frustrating to be the target of all his freaking suspicion.
terra - on reread his opinions are very consistent. I felt he reacted badly from a logical standpoint to my gambit, because of all the info out there from me and scare, but I do think these are his genuine feelings.
vi - Very towny, was targeted by sheep. Makes it very likely he was saved, if he was saved he's town. Also T3P361-T3P363 in my mind autoconfirms VI town. It's town conversation with scum reacting in a cute way, again pure read by me.

Townish

ulti - he's lucky he's riding VI's night zero scan so well because his behavior has really not given me the town vibes I got from him last game.
red - His posts have been very helpful to town and he was on pj, all around good stuff. But red is quite good at mafia, not sure I can ever really put him in the town category.

Middle

sheep - Waiting on claim for final analysis.

Scum

death - ok first name's part: T1P54 had some bad reasoning to vote Mzero, town.

whatisurnameplz posted...

I didn't get that much sleep last night so I'm gonna go to bed now. Right now corrik is looking more and more scummy to me. I really don't understand why he's so adamant in VI by scum. I don't like how IGCD just posts one liners and votes while doing nothing substantial, like he's afraid he might say something that'll make him look scummy. Glad that Oddity is catching up. Shadow and VI both seem pretty town to me at the moment, probably the only ones I can definitely say that about. Ulti's looking less and less town after everyone's been pointing out his bad comments. I'll be back tomorrow, hopefully they more inactive people will be able to discuss then. Good night.

He scumpoked IGCD in my opinion right here. Corrik wanted name's lynch the most and in my experience, after corrik is dead and confirmed town (obviously not confirmed, but close enough I thinkk) his arguments are often very accurate (yes, I'm taking dead town's word as evidence, from past experience I know everybody thinks this logic is scummy but it's my read so bleh)

Onto Death

htaeD posted...

some math here
assuming 3 scum + 2 indies is the setup

basically 4 nontowns and 8 towns alive right now
if we mislynch twice, thats 4 towns and 4 nontowns on day4
so we only get 2 chances to lynch Scare, I dont think we need to do it today, but we should remember there's a timelimit on survivors

He wanted to defer Scare's death to put town in a worst position. Keep in mind this was before the pj train (T3P347).

He hasn't expressed any hard suspicions as far as I remember. He voted IGCD when pj became lynch leader so that he could get some good bussing in while not contributing to pj's death.

IGCD - Super uninvested in the game as far as I can tell. His reaction to my gambit was really bad (basically 'ulti is sacrificing himself? cool')

##Vote: Sheep

Claim. I'm fine with IGCD claiming before you, also. I have been busy/sick for most of this game, so yah I've had a poor game. But I'm town.
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I guess I should mention I'm not sure exactly when Death's vote went down (if the pj train was up and running or not) but I believe it to be true.
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They are going to do the claim thing in the timing and order Nana had requested. No other way.
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Oddity posted...

I felt he reacted badly from a logical standpoint to my gambit, because of all the info out there from me and scare

A reach? No, no it definitely was not a reach by any stretch of the imagination. Funny how you and VI use this against me when Nana pretty much said the same thing. And for the last time, you got my playstyle all wrong if you think I'd blindly believe a literal scum player. Not sure how many times I can repeat the same sentence until you get it. I pretty much don't believe him at all now. If I thought there was a 20 to 30% chance of him telling the truth before, now it's more like 1% or less.

And your gambit was poorly executed and had little going for it. I had no reason to buy it, and your sole alibi (after you lied then lied again) was a claimed scum player, so you can't even try to act as if I had no reason not to believe you. I also said a plethora of times now that I thought you were scum before the whole incident, and nothing in your claim did anything to change my mind. Heck nothing you've done now has changed my mind either.

Like I seriously wish I could see from your perspective where your plan was apparently the smartest mafia play ever made and executed with the utmost finesse, but I sure as hell don't see it. And I've thoroughly explained my case on the subject. Hell, this isn't even the first time I've made my case on you this day and we just started not too long ago.
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Hmmm... maybe you should read my post again. I didn't say reach, I said react. Was my gambit poorly executed, yah, I think it was. But, tbqh, I felt the need to prove myself or die considering how day 1 ended. After I revealed the gambit, I fully expected to die. It's that simple. I must define scum differently than most people because I think of independents more like town than scum. I kill them when I find them because that's how you play the game. Though for scare I felt pretty guilty for drawing him out.
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Oddity posted...

Hmmm... maybe you should read my post again. I didn't say reach, I said react. Was my gambit poorly executed, yah, I think it was. But, tbqh, I felt the need to prove myself or die considering how day 1 ended. After I revealed the gambit, I fully expected to die. It's that simple. I must define scum differently than most people because I think of independents more like town than scum. I kill them when I find them because that's how you play the game. Though for scare I felt pretty guilty for drawing him out.

Even still, to make the excuse that I reacted poorly "from a logical standpoint" is pretty dumb. You yourself admitted that it was poorly executed, and like I said:
Terra-enforcer posted...

your sole alibi (after you lied then lied again) was a claimed scum player

Knowing this and all I've restated multiple times before, what "logical" reason would I have, as a person who already believed you to be scum (when your track record had not been the best), to make a 540 and call you the most towniest person I've seen all game?

If anything, me doing anything other than what I did would be suspect as hell. I'm still not sure what the heck your mindset is, but if you consider a person like me who didn't believe Scare, what oh so compelling reason would I have to make such an instant turn around and believe that you were town all of a sudden?
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I disagree with your stance on the claimed scum player. He claimed survivor, which has no reason to lie to town considering his actions. I understand that you didn't believe him, I happen to think that's illogical. So agree to disagree I guess.
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I never said you should call me towny, I'm saying with the information available to you at the time, in my opinion you should have voted Ulti. Obviously you didn't.
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Really my little blurb about you Terra, was just me attempting to cover how I have felt about you all game. I was all on board for your lynch yesterday, but upon reread I discovered that you just disagree with me on a fundamental level. I wasn't trying to accuse or anything, I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. The scare thing did obviously piss me off which is why I posted about it, but it wasn't directed at you, I just needed to vent.
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Oddity posted...

I disagree with your stance on the claimed scum player. He claimed survivor, which has no reason to lie to town considering his actions. I understand that you didn't believe him, I happen to think that's illogical. So agree to disagree I guess.

What about it is illogical? A player with no investment in town and playing for himself who we were bound to kill regardless of what he told us is totally going to blindly work for town, right I forgot >_>

The only reason I'm questioning you right now because what you say isn't adding up. It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing, you're calling me illogical based on the flimsiest of reasoning. I already explained a plethora of potential reasons (to which Leaf backed me up on one of them) and there's easily plenty more. To use the term "illogical" is outright proof of ignorance of the word. If anything it would be more illogical to assume that his scan is 100% perfect with ZERO potential of error, and to additionally make the assumption that no other player or no innate ability of your own tampered with the scan, and to also assume that he wasn't bullshitting us because Scare isn't fond of third party roles and clearly wasn't in it after a while.
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Oddity posted...

I never said you should call me towny, I'm saying with the information available to you at the time, in my opinion you should have voted Ulti. Obviously you didn't.

Which I've explained my reasoning to a good 4 or 5 times now. It's like you aren't even reading my posts...

Oddity posted...

Really my little blurb about you Terra, was just me attempting to cover how I have felt about you all game. I was all on board for your lynch yesterday, but upon reread I discovered that you just disagree with me on a fundamental level. I wasn't trying to accuse or anything, I'm sorry if I gave you that impression. The scare thing did obviously piss me off which is why I posted about it, but it wasn't directed at you, I just needed to vent.

That still doesn't validate your reasoning. A lot of what you say hinges on believing a claimed scum player and also assuming that everything surrounding his night action was 100% perfect. Heck it's not even safe to always believe town cops sometimes, but I digress. I'm not trying to blow this up, but I really dislike how you seem to put so much stock in Scare's claim, even to this point in the game.

If you want to prove you're town there's a lot better ways of doing it. Just feels as if you're still clinging to that paper thin shield as you did seemingly all of yesterday.
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I'm not saying his scan wasn't tampered with. But you gave me the impression you didn't believe any scan had gone on at all. Upon reflection, if you believed the scan was tampered with back then, then I suppose your position does make sense. I hadn't really considered that because I don't remember you posting that back then, but I could be wrong. I just think it's ludicrous to think that he didn't scan considering how he acted. You're still free to think I'm scum based off that stuff, but what I was trying to say is that you would at least have to concede that I was godfather or scare was insane. That's what pissed me off, the fact that the scan was assumed not to have happened when it was obvious to me.
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Oddity posted...

But you gave me the impression you didn't believe any scan had gone on at all. Upon reflection, if you believed the scan was tampered with back then, then I suppose your position does make sense.

...


That was literally one of the first points I made on the topic of the scan.

Sigh, I don't even think it's worth me explaining myself if you're just going to ignore most of it. It's like you already know what you want to think and so preoccupied by that scan that you don't even want to accept even just hearing an opposing position.
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I see you talking about scan tampering in vague terms back then. It was very short... and I did miss it. Sorry about that. But recently, you've been talking about Scare lying about his scan, which is why I went off the handle on that front. Do you really think he lied about there being some sort of scan and that he scanned me inno, and if so... why? Frankly, I just don't understand that. Survivor isn't invested in town winning, but he is invested in surviving. If he didn't get a scan why would he put himself out there for no reason?
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Well, I've got to go to bed. Good night.
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Oddity posted...

I see you talking about scan tampering in vague terms back then. It was very short... and I did miss it. Sorry about that. But recently, you've been talking about Scare lying about his scan, which is why I went off the handle on that front. Do you really think he lied about there being some sort of scan and that he scanned me inno, and if so... why? Frankly, I just don't understand that. Survivor isn't invested in town winning, but he is invested in surviving. If he didn't get a scan why would he put himself out there for no reason?

I've literally explained this too, just like I said. Hell, I've answered this point at least two or three times now. Scare's no fool. He knew he was dead the moment he claimed indy.

You're seriously acting like a real novice right now. Literally the go-to mode of action if there are no better leads is to kill the indy. And that's assuming that the town doesn't decide to kill them instantly like what actually happened just yesterday. He didn't have much to lose and went for a gamble that fell flat. He saw the opportunity to pass for an asset to town and failed. That was one of my assumptions, and would you look at that, it seems as if that's almost certainly what he did. It's like it isn't illogical to believe something that actually happened or something like that.
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no idea whats going on, I just woke up and only read the first few posts
but I am willing to give Oddity the benefit of the doubt here
and a Sheep claim should have happened yesterday if he hadnt been so MIA
first things first, what are votals
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Theres something like 2 worthless votes right now death. We are waiting on a couple of claims nana requested. Neither person has checked in yet which basically has the day stalled.
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I see
well that makes this simple then

##Vote: Sheep

at work right now, so reading up will be minimal
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I don't expect this day to be that simple.
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I can hope
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If anyone was around...I tend not to often read games I don't play. What is this ulti being survivor story he was talking about?
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I might remember
where does he talk about this?
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he mentioned it awhile back when he was talking about being vindictive with Scare.
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Oh it's literally just the last game we played, Mercs 4. Where he was lynched Day 1 as survivor
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oh right, I even remember mentioning back then how it was funny seeing as how he lynched me when i was a survivor yeeeeaaaars back
still, Mercs was like a blur (and another game I had to replace into)
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Yay insomnia. Since I apparently can't let anything go without getting the last word in here goes:

Terra-enforcer posted...

Oddity posted...

I see you talking about scan tampering in vague terms back then. It was very short... and I did miss it. Sorry about that. But recently, you've been talking about Scare lying about his scan, which is why I went off the handle on that front. Do you really think he lied about there being some sort of scan and that he scanned me inno, and if so... why? Frankly, I just don't understand that. Survivor isn't invested in town winning, but he is invested in surviving. If he didn't get a scan why would he put himself out there for no reason?

I've literally explained this too, just like I said. Hell, I've answered this point at least two or three times now. Scare's no fool. He knew he was dead the moment he claimed indy.

You're seriously acting like a real novice right now. Literally the go-to mode of action if there are no better leads is to kill the indy. And that's assuming that the town doesn't decide to kill them instantly like what actually happened just yesterday. He didn't have much to lose and went for a gamble that fell flat. He saw the opportunity to pass for an asset to town and failed. That was one of my assumptions, and would you look at that, it seems as if that's almost certainly what he did. It's like it isn't illogical to believe something that actually happened or something like that.

Obviously true about the indy part. Except he didn't claim the independent part before the scan. You're right about him wanting to be an asset to town, which is why he claimed the scan. Then after he 'pegged' the two other scum he felt comfortable claiming the survivor part, because at that point town can afford to just mow scum down.

Anything else assumes that as survivor with no scan he decided to all of a sudden believe everything I said after my disastrous day 1. That's the stupidest gamble ever. A survivor wouldn't gamble his life away on my freaking scan if he didn't have some great reason to believe my scan. Your estimation of scare's intelligence is low.

As an aside, maybe just stick to calling my arguments stupid; I'm not a novice, I'm just having a poor game. Anyway, tired of arguing this point. Going to move on. Maybe I'll try to get some more sleep. >.<
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And yah, ulti claimed survivor day 1 last game and instantly got lynched for it.
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yeah in the end I dont see why Scare would lie if it meant him having to reveal his role to begin with
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aside, there has to be at least one more scum on Scare besides PJ and Sheep feels like the most logical choice
on the flipside, there may be scum on PJ, but thats not necessary and it at least makes me feel better about Ben and Red (not because I thought they were scum, but because I had a hard time reading them at all)
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around for 23ish minutes
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Just occurred to me I have an errand before work. Oh well, my brief morning times can't all be productive.
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When is deadline?

I am Greco town vanilla, because I have seen people wanting my claim.

Despite being an awesome luchador I am vanilla or something like that.

Spent the day with the wife and kids doing stuff for mothers day yesterday and have an easy day so I should be able to catch up before deadline regardless of when it is.
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there were so many excuses and 'excuses' in Mercs Mafia that I forgot if I already knew you spent a lot of time with the family

but thats a nice claim
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

When is deadline?

I am Greco town vanilla, because I have seen people wanting my claim.

Despite being an awesome luchador I am vanilla or something like that.

Spent the day with the wife and kids doing stuff for mothers day yesterday and have an easy day so I should be able to catch up before deadline regardless of when it is.

<3 Greco, was one of my favorite dudes.

##Vote: IGCD

I think it's fake.
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I also don't need a claim from Sheep, just a claim from him if he did or did not visit VI.
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##Unvote
##Vote: IGCD
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I'm more than willing to claim if 2 additional people want me to, but that does NOT include IGCD and Oddity.

Full disclaimer - I do NOT have a scan on IGCD.
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well you were right about PJ in the end, but I am curious why you think this flavor is fake..
nearly forgot who Greco was, but he strikes me as vanilla-able
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Sorry for all of the missing information. Yesterday night was a bad night for me to start a day. Nonetheless, here is the up to date Playerlist and votals.

The Playerlist!
1.benjamin3740
2.IfGodCouldDie
3.Nanahara715
4.Oddity
5.red13n
6.Sheep007
7.Terra-enforcer
8.UltimaterializerX
9.VeryInsane
10.hteaD (replaced whatisurnameplz)

No Longer Exist:
[LD1] MZero - Glenn, TOWN Miller
[NK1] Shadow_goer16, TOWN Bus Driver
[NK1] Sceptilesolar - Lynx, INDEPENDENT Serial Killer
[NK1] Corrik - ???? ?????
[LD2] ScareChan - Dragon God, INDEPENDENT Survivor
[NK2] pjbasis - Karsh, DRAGOONS Jack of All Trades

Votals
[2] Sheep - Oddity, Death
[1] IGCD- Nana
[1] red - Ulti
[1] Death - Terra
[0] Oddity - Nana

With 13 alive it takes 6 to lynch. Day Ends Tuesday the 16th at 10PM
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You should remove the n1 deaths from the player list.

(tag)
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Nanahara715 posted...

IfGodCouldDie posted...

When is deadline?

I am Greco town vanilla, because I have seen people wanting my claim.

Despite being an awesome luchador I am vanilla or something like that.

Spent the day with the wife and kids doing stuff for mothers day yesterday and have an easy day so I should be able to catch up before deadline regardless of when it is.

<3 Greco, was one of my favorite dudes.

##Vote: IGCD

I think it's fake.

What makes you think its fake?
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Also what page did the day start on?
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Page 5
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IfGodCouldDie posted...

Nanahara715 posted...

IfGodCouldDie posted...

When is deadline?

I am Greco town vanilla, because I have seen people wanting my claim.

Despite being an awesome luchador I am vanilla or something like that.

Spent the day with the wife and kids doing stuff for mothers day yesterday and have an easy day so I should be able to catch up before deadline regardless of when it is.

<3 Greco, was one of my favorite dudes.

##Vote: IGCD

I think it's fake.

What makes you think its fake?

Interesting choice of words.

I mean, you could have gone with "It's not fake" or something else.
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Nanahara715 posted...

I also don't need a claim from Sheep, just a claim from him if he did or did not visit VI.

Can I get a claim from you?

And I want Sheep to claim
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Nanahara715 posted...

Interesting choice of words.

I mean, you could have gone with "It's not fake" or something else.

Well that certainly answered my question.
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Oh wait I think I figured it out

But man that's silly if true
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well it is a curious response, IGCD
but I still want an answer myself
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