Current Events > Non-Trumpers - Better: Pence president with Trump impeached or stick with Trump?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Interested in what non-Trump supporters, particularly Democrat voters, would prefer, since you have to have one or the other.
---

Liberals are funny

While Trump is incompetent, Pence is pure evil. Anything that takes Trump has to get Pence, too.
---

I don't think I have to say whose worse. One hint, I'm from Indiana.
---

wish i could vote for bob dole right now.
---

It's hard to say. My fear with Pence is that there would no longer be chaos and incompetence there to impede a still awful agenda.
---

Pence is less likely to do stupid shit than Trump is. That's about the only difference.

Trump is so incredibly stupid that I would rather have pure evil. At least evil is consistent and predictable.
---

Would rather have lawful evil than chaotic. At least you can fight him in a more even plane.
---

M-Watcher posted...

Pence is less likely to do stupid shit than Trump is. That's about the only difference.

Trump is so incredibly stupid that I would rather have pure evil. At least evil is consistent and predictable.

fair, but can we at least wait until the midterms?
---

Medussa posted...

While Trump is incompetent, Pence is pure evil. Anything that takes Trump has to get Pence, too.

Why is Pence pure evil?
---

Pence is 1000 times better
---

Trump is like a crazy grenade. It goes everywhere.

Pence is like a crazy pistol. It's more focused, but still crazy.
---

Trump is less likely to get things accomplished than Pence, but there's a higher chance of catastrophe under a Trump presidency. Do you want to shoot yourself in the foot or take your chances at (pun not intended) Russian Roulette?
---

Wreck_Chords posted...

Medussa posted...

While Trump is incompetent, Pence is pure evil. Anything that takes Trump has to get Pence, too.

Why is Pence pure evil?

Ultra religious right that would like to impose his beliefs on America.

n March, Pence signed a bill into law requiring burial or cremation for aborted fetuses.

Last month, Pence said he'd like to "send Roe v. Wade to the ash heap of history."

Pence signed a 2015 bill permitting Indiana business owners to cite religious beliefs as a reason to refuse service to gay and lesbian customers.

As Indiana's governor, Pence slashed Planned Parenthood funding, arguably contributing to one county's HIV outbreak.

During his 12 years as a congressman, Pence voted against nearly every piece of environmental legislation.

Pence voted to bar the Environmental Protection Agency from regulating greenhouse gases.
---

Pence will at least not fuck over my country as hard
---

JuanCarlos1 posted...

Wreck_Chords posted...

Medussa posted...

While Trump is incompetent, Pence is pure evil. Anything that takes Trump has to get Pence, too.

Why is Pence pure evil?

Ultra religious right that would like to impose his beliefs on America.

n March, Pence signed a bill into law requiring burial or cremation for aborted fetuses.

Last month, Pence said he'd like to "send Roe v. Wade to the ash heap of history."

Pence signed a 2015 bill permitting Indiana business owners to cite religious beliefs as a reason to refuse service to gay and lesbian customers.

As Indiana's governor, Pence slashed Planned Parenthood funding, arguably contributing to one county's HIV outbreak.

During his 12 years as a congressman, Pence voted against nearly every piece of environmental legislation.

Pence voted to bar the Environmental Protection Agency from regulating greenhouse gases.

Don't forget how his policies toward Planned Parenthood caused the worst HIV outbreak in Indiana history.
---

Pence wouldn't embarrass the country quite as much as Trump. He's still fucking awful but I'd definitely rather have him than Trump as president.

Edit: though now that I think about it the daily news would be far less entertaining
---

Pence would be better for our image abroad, Trump would be better domestically
I know it's trite and sort of a meme at this point, but Trump is incompetent enough that even when he tries to fuck us over he manages to screw that up. I'm sure Pence, Ryan, etc. are much more competent than him.
Not to mention the religious fundamentalism that Pence represents, much better for the church and state to be divided.

I think the hope is for Dems to use Trump's low approval to inspire voters to vote for them. Hopefully it works, but we'll see.
---

I find it hard to believe there's only 1 Trump supporter here...
---

I go back and forth on this

Pro-Trump
- His incompetency is a blessing given the agenda at hand
- He can be rallied against as a singularly odious figure, and perhaps drive opposition turnout (though, a lot of good that did last year). Mike Pence polls fairly well
- I think he exposes the nakedness of it all (the GOP, DC, American politics writ large) in a very useful way

Pro-Pence
- The GOP ousting Trump (because they are the only ones with the power to do so) may alienate a significant chunk of their current voters.
- Democrats might just be forced to criticize Pence and the GOP on policy grounds, rather than reacting to the personal indignities of Trump. That would be a good thing.
---

Pence is the better-equipped leader, all views aside.

I'd rather have that.
---

Trump mobilizes the left in a way that Pence would never be able to.


However, losing Trump also removes his base from the GOP

And while Pence would govern as a standard Republican (with a few populist things tossed out now and again) he's much more adept at playing the game than Trump. As Antifar pointed out, he "exposes the nakedness of it all", which makes it easier to rally against and confront.

However, Trump is incredibly unstable.


So I'm torn.


But I've said before, and I'll stand by this (until it doesn't happen) but if Trump goes down for the Russia thing, Pence is probably going with him.
---

How the fuck did was their an HIV outbreak in a country because planned parenthood was defunded.
---

ManWithGun posted...

How the f*** did was their an HIV outbreak in a country because planned parenthood was defunded.

Your average Trump supporter.
---

Pence is by far the lesser of two evils. Thankfully though if Trump gets impeached Pence will most definitely go down with him. They might be taking Ryan, too, which would be even better.
---

toptopmax posted...

ManWithGun posted...

How the f*** did was their an HIV outbreak in a country because planned parenthood was defunded.

Your average Trump supporter.

I didn't vote for Trump. Are there any more false assumptions you would like to make?
---

ManWithGun posted...

How the fuck did was their an HIV outbreak in a country because planned parenthood was defunded.

u serious mate
---

Doom_Art posted...

ManWithGun posted...

How the fuck did was their an HIV outbreak in a country because planned parenthood was defunded.

u serious mate

I'm sorry. Let me correct myself. How the FUCK was THERE an HIV outbreak in a COUNTY because planned parenthood FUNDING WAS SLASHED?
---

I live in Indiana Pence is incompetent too with being a religious extremist on the side.
---

ManWithGun posted...

I'm sorry. Let me correct myself. How the FUCK was THERE an HIV outbreak in a COUNTY because planned parenthood FUNDING WAS SLASHED?

I'm sorry let me correct myself


ARE YOU SERIOUS, MATE?
---

Pence would get bent over and fucked in the ass by congress at every turn. But I would prefer that over a tyrannical mongoloid.
---

ManWithGun posted...

How the fuck did was their an HIV outbreak in a country because planned parenthood was defunded.

Good question. Here's an answer:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mike-pence-indiana-hiv_us_57f53b9be4b002a7312022ef

Pence first laid the groundwork for Indiana’s HIV outbreak as a congressman back in 2011, when the House passed his amendment to defund Planned Parenthood. Then in 2013, Pence’s first year as governor of Indiana, Scott County’s one Planned Parenthood closed in the wake of public health spending cuts. Since that particular Planned Parenthood was also the county’s only HIV testing center, there was no longer a place for the county’s 24,000 residents to get tested.

Nearly 20 percent of Scott County residents live below the poverty line. Injection drug use there is a major problem, increasing the risk of HIV outbreak.

Fast-forward to 2015. Local health officials began to report HIV cases linked to intravenous prescription opioid use in Scott County. Scott County residents were sharing needles to inject their opioids, and nobody was getting tested.

The situation quickly spiraled out of control. At the height of the outbreak, 20 new cases of HIV were being diagnosed each week, reaching a total of nearly 200 cases by the time the outbreak was finally under control.

---

Doom_Art posted...

ManWithGun posted...

I'm sorry. Let me correct myself. How the FUCK was THERE an HIV outbreak in a COUNTY because planned parenthood FUNDING WAS SLASHED?

I'm sorry let me correct myself


ARE YOU SERIOUS, MATE?

Are you going to answer or what?
---

CrimsonAngeI posted...

I live in Indiana Pence is incompetent too with being a religious extremist on the side.

Fun fact, my cousin's wife lost her job when she was outed as gay thanks to one of Pence's "religious freedom" laws apparently.
---

The best part is I live in Scott County :l
---

Antifar posted...

ManWithGun posted...

How the fuck did was their an HIV outbreak in a country because planned parenthood was defunded.

Good question. Here's an answer:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mike-pence-indiana-hiv_us_57f53b9be4b002a7312022ef

Pence first laid the groundwork for Indiana?s HIV outbreak as a congressman back in 2011, when the House passed his amendment to defund Planned Parenthood. Then in 2013, Pence?s first year as governor of Indiana, Scott County?s one Planned Parenthood closed in the wake of public health spending cuts. Since that particular Planned Parenthood was also the county?s only HIV testing center, there was no longer a place for the county?s 24,000 residents to get tested.

Nearly 20 percent of Scott County residents live below the poverty line. Injection drug use there is a major problem, increasing the risk of HIV outbreak.

Fast-forward to 2015. Local health officials began to report HIV cases linked to intravenous prescription opioid use in Scott County. Scott County residents were sharing needles to inject their opioids, and nobody was getting tested.

The situation quickly spiraled out of control. At the height of the outbreak, 20 new cases of HIV were being diagnosed each week, reaching a total of nearly 200 cases by the time the outbreak was finally under control.

So then how is this his fault if people were using dirty needles. They would have contracted HIV regardless, no?
---

Doom_Art posted...

CrimsonAngeI posted...

I live in Indiana Pence is incompetent too with being a religious extremist on the side.

Fun fact, my cousin's wife lost her job when she was outed as gay thanks to one of Pence's "religious freedom" laws apparently.

That's really shitty man. Fuck Pence.
---

ManWithGun posted...

So then how is this his fault if people were using dirty needles.

Because he resisted needle exchanges for months.
---

Antifar posted...

ManWithGun posted...

So then how is this his fault if people were using dirty needles.

Because he resisted needle exchanges for months.

This is interesting. What drugs were they injecting? Why would he resist using clean needles?
---

ManWithGun posted...

Why would he resist using clean needles?

He felt it would further encourage drug use

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/08/us/politics/mike-pence-needle-exchanges-indiana.html

n the evening of March 24, 2015, Sheriff Dan McClain got an unexpected voice mail: “This is Gov. Mike Pence calling. I would welcome the opportunity to get your counsel on what’s going on in Scott County.”

What was going on was unprecedented in Indiana and rare in the United States: H.I.V. was spreading with terrifying speed among intravenous drug users in this rural community near the Kentucky border. Local, state and federal health officials were urging the governor to allow clean needles to be distributed to slow the outbreak.

But Indiana law made it illegal to possess a syringe without a prescription. And Mr. Pence, a steadfast conservative, was morally opposed to needle exchanges on the grounds that they supported drug abuse.

As Sheriff McClain called the governor back, the pressure was mounting. The number of new H.I.V. cases in the county was nearing 90.

“Don’t give me any political views; I want to know your opinion,” the sheriff recalled Mr. Pence saying.

Sheriff McClain, who was not a fan of needle exchanges, was quick to reply: “I believe the only thing we can do to stop or slow this thing is to get clean needles out there.”

As the Republican vice-presidential candidate, Mr. Pence brings a long record of social and fiscal conservatism that serves as a counterweight to Donald J. Trump’s frequently shifting views. But rarely have the governor’s principles been tested like they were during Indiana’s worst public health crisis in years.

Much as Tim Kaine, the Democratic vice-presidential candidate, had to wrestle with his deeply felt opposition to capital punishment in a death penalty state, allowing 11 executions when he was Virginia’s governor, the H.I.V. outbreak forced Mr. Pence to balance strong beliefs against ground-level reality: an epidemic that was growing more dire by the day.

In recent interviews, local, state and federal health officials said Mr. Pence initially held firm. So as they struggled to contain the spread of H.I.V., the officials embarked on a behind-the-scenes effort over several weeks to persuade him to change his mind, using political pressure, research and pleas for help from this remote, poor community.

On March 23, more than two months after the outbreak was detected, Mr. Pence said he was going to go home and pray on it. He spoke to the sheriff the next night.

Two days later, he issued an executive order allowing syringes to be distributed in Scott County.

---

So these people contracting hiv aren't drug addicts but actual patients with actual prescriptions? I didn't see the article specify but it said people with prescriptions could have needles.
---