Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Booker/Chrom/Yuffie/Ryu 3/Nilin vs. Lara Croft and Sonic the Hedgehog

(+) Yeah! (+)

Lopen posted...

Hyperbolic flavor text imo. What it's describing is not hell on earth

Let it be known that's a verbatim quote from the ability itself. If it's hyperbolic, it's because it was hyperbolic in Lara's build itself.
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To me I'm thinking like some movie action scene where the ground randomly crumbles away every once in a while for cinematic effect and to potentially disorient those who are light on their feet not the end of a Metroid game.
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I always imaged the ability quite literally means the terrain is breaking apart
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I mean, to me, it's just consistent.

Gale force winds ripping things off the ground. Lightning striking anything in the air.

Pairing "slowly crumbling ground" with that is just inconsistent with the rest of the ability. It makes more sense that the ground is crumbling at a decent pace. "Gradual" is just relative.
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So what you're saying is the match is a draw because there will be literally no ground to stand on before any fighting occurs
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I'm saying Sonic is the last to fall because he's dealt with this exact thing numerous times before, so he'd win by default.
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Lopen posted...

So what you're saying is the match is a draw because there will be literally no ground to stand on before any fighting occurs

Ding ding ding.

No one is heavy enough to not be scooped up by gale force winds. And random lightning is gonna kill everyone in the air.
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I don't see this kinda stuff doing Yuffie in until there's literally no ground though. She has great jumping and agility and teleporting to correct any missed jumps. Unless you get some weird situation where she's on an island surrounded by bottomless pit it feels unlikely she'd die here.
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I guess it is debatable because the strength of the gale is not specified.
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I mean, the Sonic CD intro and several other things have literally shown Sonic jumping from rock to rock in crumbling ground/mountain/etc., which I don't think even Yuffie could keep up with. >_>

Experience alone wins out
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sonic's always been legit, he's just not respected much due to being kinda squishy. over the years they've def boosted him up more and more but.... eh. he's usually just very easy to dismiss, despite the fact that he really is quite strong. fortunately his main ability of "jumping and running up walls with no issue" is actually quite useful here since... well, he might be doing that a lot. it's damn near impossible for him to die thanks to the terrain in this match so it's largely down to A) his opponents killing him and B) his opponents knowing that they have to kill him. normally B isn't that big an issue but in this match, if they get into the same thinking we all have - that it's a question of who survives the terrain first - then they're screwed: they won't.

they have to actively look for sonic or get lucky in that the terrain makes them get near each other at close enough ranges where they can actually hit him. which, between the terrain hazards, is a pretty difficult thing in and of itself.
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Lopen posted...

I don't see this kinda stuff doing Yuffie in until there's literally no ground though. She has great jumping and agility and teleporting to correct any missed jumps. Unless you get some weird situation where she's on an island surrounded by bottomless pit it feels unlikely she'd die here.

with gale-force winds liable to tear apart anything not securely fixed to the ground, whilst anything airborne will be subject to constant electrocution from suspiciously accurate lightning bolts. I

Dude anyone jumping or going airborne at all is dead.
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I again am not saying Sonic isn't better

I'm just saying that to get to the point where the enemy team loses the terrain would need to be mangled to the point where Sonic being better doesn't matter because there's nothing to platform to.
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Also if we wanna talk winds I think a 70lb midget (that's you Sonic) is getting blown around a lot more than Chrom
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It's Green Hill Zone.

The place falls apart by Sonic walking on it too hard.
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im redownloading sonic generations right now

i suspect doing the stage backwards in this hell might be a tad more difficult than doing it forwards but idk
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sonic can platform to many, many more things than his opponents can. sonic's got a better jump than anyone,
can instantly boost his speed, and can literally run up walls. he's also done this countless times by now so really, to him it's a normal thing where he's not going to make any mistakes and the same can't be said of yuffie.

if anybody else jumps to a wall, they're pretty much screwed. Sonic can run up it, spindash through it, whatever.
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im imagining if theres a zipline near the end that goes almost straight down sonic is in for a rough time
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Wanglicious posted...

sonic can platform to many, many more things than his opponents can. sonic's got a better jump than anyone,
can instantly boost his speed, and can literally run up walls. he's also done this countless times by now so really, to him it's a normal thing where he's not going to make any mistakes and the same can't be said of yuffie.

if anybody else jumps to a wall, they're pretty much screwed. Sonic can run up it, spindash through it, whatever.

He can't platform to shit. If you go airborne you are dead. Literally bolded in the write up.
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Wanglicious posted...

sonic's always been legit, he's just not respected much due to being kinda squishy.

No, he's disrespected because he doesn't go that fast in gameplay and he 'has only one angle of attack' if you ask KJH. >_>

Shit's kinda dumb if you ask me considering the dude has some Quicksilver-level feats like making a hurricane to just wipe a horde of foes or rapidly disassesmbling bots piecemeal in instants. I've always felt like yeah, Sonic jobs to homing/spawns-on-you magic but trying to hit him with melee or kinetic weapons is just foolish. He's just way too fast for anybody below the 5/week range.
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Corrik posted...

Wanglicious posted...

sonic can platform to many, many more things than his opponents can. sonic's got a better jump than anyone,
can instantly boost his speed, and can literally run up walls. he's also done this countless times by now so really, to him it's a normal thing where he's not going to make any mistakes and the same can't be said of yuffie.

if anybody else jumps to a wall, they're pretty much screwed. Sonic can run up it, spindash through it, whatever.

He can't platform to shit. If you go airborne you are dead. Literally bolded in the write up.

People have been arguing both sides with the assumption that jumping doesn't count as being in the air long enough to get hit.
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it took too long so i just watched a youtube video, looks like green hill is more horizontal than vertical so it's about the same

idk man i'm out of this fight topic have fun
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StealThisSheen posted...

Corrik posted...

Wanglicious posted...

sonic can platform to many, many more things than his opponents can. sonic's got a better jump than anyone,
can instantly boost his speed, and can literally run up walls. he's also done this countless times by now so really, to him it's a normal thing where he's not going to make any mistakes and the same can't be said of yuffie.

if anybody else jumps to a wall, they're pretty much screwed. Sonic can run up it, spindash through it, whatever.

He can't platform to shit. If you go airborne you are dead. Literally bolded in the write up.

People have been arguing both sides with the assumption that jumping doesn't count as being in the air long enough to get hit.

Or at least not really brief jumps. If you gain slo-mo big air for 30 secs I feel like the storm starts targeting you, but a second or two? Not really.
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StealThisSheen posted...

Corrik posted...

Wanglicious posted...

sonic can platform to many, many more things than his opponents can. sonic's got a better jump than anyone,
can instantly boost his speed, and can literally run up walls. he's also done this countless times by now so really, to him it's a normal thing where he's not going to make any mistakes and the same can't be said of yuffie.

if anybody else jumps to a wall, they're pretty much screwed. Sonic can run up it, spindash through it, whatever.

He can't platform to shit. If you go airborne you are dead. Literally bolded in the write up.

People have been arguing both sides with the assumption that jumping doesn't count as being in the air long enough to get hit.

And the assumption is wrong. If you are airborne the wind is strong enough to tear you apart and electrocute you to death. This is a purely ground combat fight with awareness being huge due to fissures and ground breaking apart.
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Kamekguy posted...

It's Green Hill Zone.

The place falls apart by Sonic walking on it too hard.

this

this is the post that sells me on Sonic and Lara winning
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eh, i don't see homing magic as fast enough and spawn-on-you magic is hard when he's constantly moving. but i get your point at least. sure he's pretty much "spindash?" and "super fast?" which make him essentially a one trick pony but it's a pretty great one trick pony considering it means you're gonna have a hard time touching him. eventually you reach a point where bullet blockers are a thing and at that point people go "well, sonic's screwed." but that never really gets into the fight. it ignores that his opponent should have issue because he's coming at them with a crazy amount of force and it shouldn't be that easy to ignore or deal with because he's got reflexes and agility good enough to know how, where, and when to move even at top speeds, making both significantly higher. it's never that "well they might be able to sometimes block him but they still can't actually hit him because he's faster on reactions and quick movements," it's always "well if they can block him then he's useless."
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Corrik posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

Corrik posted...

Wanglicious posted...

sonic can platform to many, many more things than his opponents can. sonic's got a better jump than anyone,
can instantly boost his speed, and can literally run up walls. he's also done this countless times by now so really, to him it's a normal thing where he's not going to make any mistakes and the same can't be said of yuffie.

if anybody else jumps to a wall, they're pretty much screwed. Sonic can run up it, spindash through it, whatever.

He can't platform to shit. If you go airborne you are dead. Literally bolded in the write up.

People have been arguing both sides with the assumption that jumping doesn't count as being in the air long enough to get hit.

And the assumption is wrong. If you are airborne the wind is strong enough to tear you apart and electrocute you to death. This is a purely ground combat fight with awareness being huge due to fissures and ground breaking apart.

Well then Sonic would be the only one even remotely speedy enough to survive by purely staying on the ground, wouldn't you agree?
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super ninja Yuffie
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Right, which is super binary and I feel like it isn't true. I wonder sometimes if Sonic would get a huge respect hike if you gave him the Black Knight sword just because people wouldn't argue 'they can block him gg sonic', or he'd remain disrespected because people go 'lol Robotnik robots' or something.
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I think not taking the writeup as gospel for the lightning mechanics but saying hell on earth matters or trying to claim gradual crumbling is something super fierce is a double standard but that's just me I guess.
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Lopen posted...

I think not taking the writeup as gospel for the lightning mechanics but saying hell on earth matters or trying to claim gradual crumbling is something super fierce is a double standard but that's just me I guess.

If nobody can jump, then only Sonic's ever dealt with running on crumbling ground, anyway, so he's still got the vast advantage

So yeah, I'm okay with taking it as gospel
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sonic
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Tankiest one probably wins because everyone here jumps on instinct eventually and is smited by lord Raiden

Which is Chrom tbqh
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StealThisSheen posted...

Lopen posted...

I think not taking the writeup as gospel for the lightning mechanics but saying hell on earth matters or trying to claim gradual crumbling is something super fierce is a double standard but that's just me I guess.

If nobody can jump, then only Sonic's ever dealt with running on crumbling ground, anyway, so he's still got the vast advantage

So yeah, I'm okay with taking it as gospel

I think anyone with high awareness is at a huge advantage. Speed is great and all but if the fast person is a doofus and trips over a crumbling spot in the ground or such then gg.

The terrain is gonna win this match regardless.
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Lopen posted...

Tankiest one probably wins because everyone here jumps on instinct eventually and is smited by lord Raiden

Which is Chrom tbqh

If we're gonna go that route, one could argue Sonic jumps last since he has the least need to jump until things really fall apart because of his speed. If the ground starts crumbling under Chrom's feet, he has to jump. If it starts crumbling under Sonic's, he runs faster
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Chrom sucks
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it's more that airborne is rarely meaning jumping. you ain't floating, flying, or traveling in/with the air. movements are your force against the ground and gravity's force against you - nothing to do with the air. i mean if you alter gravity to make it like the moon or something, sure i guess people would consider it more that way, though that's not the case here.

if you get caught in the winds, yeah that should count - air is moving you, airborne fits. but if it's just moving and jumping, nah.

<_< besides, i'm not even sure lightning works on sonic in a spindash.
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Lopen posted...

Tankiest one probably wins because everyone here jumps on instinct eventually and is smited by lord Raiden

Which is Chrom tbqh

Depends on if you think anyone survives it or not. Like I think none of these mercs are getting oneshotted by a lightning bolt. They might get tagged once in this scenario but will stick to ground afterward.
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Corrik posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

Lopen posted...

I think not taking the writeup as gospel for the lightning mechanics but saying hell on earth matters or trying to claim gradual crumbling is something super fierce is a double standard but that's just me I guess.

If nobody can jump, then only Sonic's ever dealt with running on crumbling ground, anyway, so he's still got the vast advantage

So yeah, I'm okay with taking it as gospel

I think anyone with high awareness is at a huge advantage. Speed is great and all but if the fast person is a doofus and trips over a crumbling spot in the ground or such then gg.

The terrain is gonna win this match regardless.

Home field advantage. And Sonic is used to tornado conditions and the ground breaking apart.

He'd definitely have the most awareness and experience
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StealThisSheen posted...

Lopen posted...

Tankiest one probably wins because everyone here jumps on instinct eventually and is smited by lord Raiden

Which is Chrom tbqh

If we're gonna go that route, one could argue Sonic jumps last since he has the least need to jump until things really fall apart because of his speed. If the ground starts crumbling under Chrom's feet, he has to jump. If it starts crumbling under Sonic's, he runs faster

It's actually Yuffie in that case since she can cover distances with no ground to run on by teleporting
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Team Sonic
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https://youtu.be/52Axf4LP2A0?t=32m50s

To give a better idea of the lightning bolts, that plane is in the air for a while once the storm clouds start gathering and it's targeted by the lightning. Jumping probably wouldn't suffice.
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Team Sonic, I think. I fully admit I'm biased in favor of him because I hate to see him get disrespected, but I think the key is this: if the ground collapses fast and lighting hits you the second you jump, Sonic can use his speed to stay ahead and carry Lara. If the ground collapses slow, he balls all over the terrain and is likely to be able to use his terrain advantage to find the place that will fall last - which I think isn't a given Chrom and friends can find it, because Green Hill Zone is just massive in this incarnation. If jumping doesn't instantly pop lightning, Sonic is completely unhindered. He just doesn't have to fight here, only outlast, and he's well equipped for it I feel.
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I disagree that teleporting is better than running on crumbling ground, since when running you constantly are looking ahead, whereas teleporting around leaves you with moments of no sight and thus you may reappear and have to instantly react
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also kan, if you want to talk about sonic's best feat, i think Colors has it.

https://youtu.be/AaqOfy2RaP8?t=10m57s

probably is his best feat for speed, strength, and durability considering he didn't literally disintegrate like... everything else did.

nevermind having the strength and speed to do that. all of which is in his base form.
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...though for the record, no, that's not a black hole.
it certainly has similarities to a weaker one, has a gravity pulling things thousands of times heavier than sonic even as he stands still, has it instantly disintegrating them but not him who is somehow able to briefly survive inside that, and it has has him briefly outrun it, including multiple jumping points... but still, not a black hole.

just an all around ridiculous feat everyone forgot exists in Colors/never played because it's Colors.
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Just want to chip in, Chrom's fought on the back of a mountain-sized dragon flying across continents without losing his footing. He's also fought inside active volcanoes (Yen'fay chapter), during earthquakes (Risen chapters), and is pretty damn good at dodging lightning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7H-LFdqZng

That's also the dragon he fought on top of.

Also has plot durability in that he's survived cutscene attacks like lightning blasts that went through his body (unguarded) and destroyed a stone column behind him, and also has survived divine dragon breath in order to unlock his Falchion's powers. The Falchion also heals him, with no limit on uses.

I really doubt the terrain is doing him in.
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KJH posted...

Just want to chip in, Chrom's fought on the back of a mountain-sized dragon flying across continents without losing his footing.

This example is game mechanic-y as all hell, because then you're saying this is some kind of footing achievement for the entire playable cast of Awakening, even the big tanky armor dudes.
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And again, the issue isn't him tanking parts of the terrain

The issue is what does he do when the terrain literally is falling apart underneath his feet
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Well I mean canonically that fight did happen. It's not like the stage wasn't one that was beaten. With Chrom it's rock solid because he's a forced roster too.
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