Board 8 > Liberals shut down Mexican restaurant because it's owned by white guy

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://heatst.com/culture-wars/portland-burrito-business-forced-to-close-after-getting-hounded-for-cultural-appropriation/

Remember: if your name isn't Enrique and you like burritos, you deserve to have your livelihood destroyed.

Heatstreet links aren't worth clicking

I will say, however, that by far the best burrito place in my city is run by a 90% white staff
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conservatives angry at the free market

Liberals shut down boring b8 topic because it's posted by white guy
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Guess they should have made better burritos.
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it's not a white guy, it's two white women

at least read the thing you post
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The funniest part is that five of the first six words in the article are the women's names.
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if they doubled down they probably would have gotten a lot of business

their loss
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Behindthecurve on observational skills

This is pretty terrible, though. Cultural appropriation is a legitimate concept, but it's woefully misapplied here.
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OliviaTremor posted...

The funniest part is that five of the first six words in the article are the women's names.

I don't know if this is a real Ulti alt or an imposter, so I don't know if that's the joke or not.
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HeroicGammaRay posted...

if they doubled down they probably would have gotten a lot of business

their loss
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Maybe. I'm thinking that they didn't expect that sort of attack and couldn't handle it. I don't know how severe the backlash was exactly in scale, but if it was only a handful of people then they really should have stuck it out better.
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Man all this topic did was made me want burritos

but my local burrito place closed at 9

and no fucking way I'm settling for taco bell after getting this craving
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Johnbobb posted...

Man all this topic did was made me want burritos

but my local burrito place closed at 9

and no fucking way I'm settling for taco bell after getting this craving

I also will be getting a burrito for lunch tomorrow because of this topic.
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Johnbobb posted...

Man all this topic did was made me want burritos

but my local burrito place closed at 9

and no fucking way I'm settling for taco bell after getting this craving

Sheetz has the best Burritos and they are open 24/7.
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Feathery posted...

This is pretty terrible, though. Cultural appropriation is a legitimate concept, but it's woefully misapplied here.

My default leaning is to agree. But I'm white, and should probably actually read what someone who is not white has to say about the issue. Googling....

http://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2017/05/22/19028161/this-week-in-appropriation-kooks-burritos-and-willamette-week

Yeah, I still don't feel like I fully understand the outrage here. But I do think there's a couple of decent points raised.

“If you knew anything of the restaurant industry (or Google) you'd know that this is true. ‘Ethnic’ chefs are expected to ‘cook from their ethnic backgrounds’ while White chefs can do what these [...] women did: vacation somewhere and ‘get inspired’ and appropriate an entire culture's cuisine and claim it as their own.”

This is...mostly a Portland thing near as I can tell? In Vancouver I know the closest pizza place to my house is owned by...I think a Vietnamese family. It's also not unusual to find sushi places run by Koreans.

But apparently Portland has enough of a trend that there's a spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JJuHMuAeuHxy-c4nyp6NLghhrCdZYO7I5kDGSt22Ie8/htmlview#

Which...looking through the spreadsheet...yeah, apparently Portland has 17+ Mexican restaurants owned by white people already.

(One important thing to realize when internet outrage happens over something seemingly inconsequential like this, is that it usually isn't an isolated incident. I don't think anyone would care in most other cities, but Portland apparently already had local communities of colour upset with white people owning many of their culture's restaurants).
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inb4 "isn't that racist of you to say that white people aren't allowed to cook non-white people's food"

The issue isn't necessarily "white people does a thing that other people does"

It's that "white people does a thing, are celebrated - other people do a thing, get shunned, kicked out of schools, refused jobs, etc."

Or "specific culture has a deeply respectful tradition that has a lot of depth for it - other people copies it for cheap, shallow fashion or to make a lot of money off of trendiness"

That's one of the big issues of appropriation; it's not just "you took something that belonged to someone else", it's also the whole "You took something and by virtue of belonging to a privileged class it became better in your hands, while the people you took it from have been spat on or refused to it just because they're a vilified class."

Like dreads. Black people (women, especially) have, to this day, been vilified for their dreads or even simply having their natural hair texture. And yet when a white person "dreads" their hair (White people don't really get dreadlocks, they get something else that's only partially similar) or otherwise manages to copy a hairstyle that black people have been vilified for, they tend to either get away with it effortlessly or even be celebrated for "exploring new fashion" or something.
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BowserCuffs posted...

inb4 "isn't that racist of you to say that white people aren't allowed to cook non-white people's food"

The issue isn't necessarily "white people does a thing that other people does"

It's that "white people does a thing, are celebrated - other people do a thing, get shunned, kicked out of schools, refused jobs, etc."

Or "specific culture has a deeply respectful tradition that has a lot of depth for it - other people copies it for cheap, shallow fashion or to make a lot of money off of trendiness"

That's one of the big issues of appropriation; it's not just "you took something that belonged to someone else", it's also the whole "You took something and by virtue of belonging to a privileged class it became better in your hands, while the people you took it from have been spat on or refused to it just because they're a vilified class."

Like dreads. Black people (women, especially) have, to this day, been vilified for their dreads or even simply having their natural hair texture. And yet when a white person "dreads" their hair (White people don't really get dreadlocks, they get something else that's only partially similar) or otherwise manages to copy a hairstyle that black people have been vilified for, they tend to either get away with it effortlessly or even be celebrated for "exploring new fashion" or something.

Yes, we need to pamper all races except white people to ensure they aren't manipulated or injured by the privileged. Here's an incomplete list of racist cultural appropriations that need to be erased from the world:
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Samurai Jack
Three Ninjas
Black Panther the superhero
Mulan, Aladdin, and Moana
Spaghetti
Mexican restaurants owned by white people who just happen to like Mexican food

Behindthecurve posted...

Yes, we need to pamper all races except white people

More like "we need to stop pampering white people", really.
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BowserCuffs posted...

Behindthecurve posted...

Yes, we need to pamper all races except white people

More like "we need to stop pampering white people", really.

Step 1. Ruin the businesses of white people who like Mexican food
Step 2. ???
Step 3. Racism is over.

metroid composite posted...

This is...mostly a Portland thing near as I can tell?

Probably

From what I know of the restaurant industry, the main problem is that no matter what the race of the owner/head chef is (usually white male), the line chefs are largely immigrants (Mexican in the US usually). From low end to the super high end $300 plates restaurants, it's all Mexicans cooking your food. They're really freakin good chefs and fuel the restaurant industry, but rarely get recognition or opportunity for higher positions.
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Behindthecurve posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

Behindthecurve posted...

Yes, we need to pamper all races except white people

More like "we need to stop pampering white people", really.

Step 1. Ruin the businesses of white people who like Mexican food
Step 2. ???
Step 3. Racism is over.

Not even remotely close, but you've already decided what "reality" you live in so okay.
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BowserCuffs posted...

Behindthecurve posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

Behindthecurve posted...

Yes, we need to pamper all races except white people

More like "we need to stop pampering white people", really.

Step 1. Ruin the businesses of white people who like Mexican food
Step 2. ???
Step 3. Racism is over.

Not even remotely close, but you've already decided what "reality" you live in so okay.

Alright, well maybe it's not step 1. You seem to agree with the sentiment behind these people's actions, so explain to me how getting a restaurant shut down because it's run by white people (since it's clear they wouldn't have done this if it was run by Mexican people) helps anyone.

Behindthecurve posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

Behindthecurve posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

Behindthecurve posted...

Yes, we need to pamper all races except white people

More like "we need to stop pampering white people", really.

Step 1. Ruin the businesses of white people who like Mexican food
Step 2. ???
Step 3. Racism is over.

Not even remotely close, but you've already decided what "reality" you live in so okay.

Alright, well maybe it's not step 1. You seem to agree with the sentiment behind these people's actions, so explain to me how getting a restaurant shut down because it's run by white people (since it's clear they wouldn't have done this if it was run by Mexican people) helps anyone.

Well, it certainly helps the local Mexican population by allowing them to make a living off of their own culture, as opposed to white tourists getting preferential treatment.

But rather, the best way it helps them is the cessation of the harm that's being done to them.

I already explained, in-depth, why cultural appropriation is bad and how harmful it is to the people being stolen from. In fact, you even quoted the post, but clearly the only thing you got from it is "white people are bad waaaaaaaah"
When really what I was saying was "White people being celebrated for the same thing that other people are villified for is bad"

(It should also go without saying that simply "white people eating tacos" is not cultural appropriation, but I know you've probably been exposed to a few people that believe that so I will say it. White people eating tacos isn't cultural appropriation.)

Here's the actual step program, by the way.

1. Stop ruining the business/lives/education/employment of people for participating in their own cultures that they were born and raised in, or for being black and not straightening their hair.
2. Stop pampering white people who do the same things that other people get their lives ruined for in Step 1
3. Learn to communicate and integrate with each other in a natural way, sharing culture instead of appropriating it. A white person and a latinx person working together to run a Mexican restaurant would be an example of cooperation. As would a black person and a latinx person, a Japanese-American person and a latinx person, etc. (White people aren't the only ones that appropriate, though they are the most major appropriator in America.)
4. Make sure that schools in poor places have plenty of funding and space to handle the amount of students have, and equal job opportunities - but not gentrification.
5. ???
6. We're a step closer to ending racism but we've still got a long way to go and every time a white person stops being pampered, they throw a fit about how other races are receiving preferential treatment, even though an objective look at the situation shows that white people, on average, get away with more crimes, get jobs with less competence, and can exist in middle-class neighborhoods without cops breathing down their necks.

A lot of people like to point towards homeless white people as proof that they don't have privilege (though you should hear me rant about discrimination against poor/homeless people) but fail to realize that black people are disproportionately homeless than white people, with quite a few factors that discriminate against black people which lead them there (residential segregation is a very real thing)

White people aren't evil, but god damn we can be complacent as fuck about how much preferential treatment we get.
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Just to be clear: White people selling tacos is cultural appropriation, but Mexican people selling pizza (for instance) isn't, right?

Behindthecurve posted...

Just to be clear: White people selling tacos is cultural appropriation, but Mexican people selling pizza (for instance) isn't, right?

If we're talking about a situation where lots of Mexicans, who visited Italy as tourists once, and came back and decided to open up a whole bunch of "Italian Restaurants" and push Italians, especially if they're a vilified class, out of business, while exoticizing Italian culture and making a lot of money off of a culture that isn't theirs, yes, that would be cultural appropriation.
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Man haven't you had a Mexican pizza before?
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TheRock1525 posted...

Man haven't you had a Mexican pizza before?

Now that is an interesting thing, because this is what happens when cultures blend instead of appropriate.

But I was reading past the oversimplification of Mexican food into "tacos and burritos" and Italian food into "pizzas" to go with a relevant example.
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Even after reading this topic I don't understand the outrage.


Someone wants to make a restaurant that sells food. They make a restaurant that sells food.

That's as complicated as it needs to be. Unless they are going above and beyond to be racially insensitive (I can't even think of an example short of a white person name John opening a restaurant and calling it "Jose's Tacos" or something like that) then whether or not you go to the restaurant should depend on whether or not you feel the food is good enough to be worth the amount of money they are charging for it.


If they are shitty to their workers? Sure, boycott.

If they go out of their way to promote some terrible political viewpoint that you don't agree with? Sure, boycott.


But if all they did was have an anecdote that explains the type of food the restaurant serves, then you either like the food or you don't. I don't see how this is a race thing.
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I think this is the first time I've ever seen behindthecurve taken seriously
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BowserCuffs posted...

Behindthecurve posted...

Just to be clear: White people selling tacos is cultural appropriation, but Mexican people selling pizza (for instance) isn't, right?

If we're talking about a situation where lots of Mexicans, who visited Italy as tourists once, and came back and decided to open up a whole bunch of "Italian Restaurants" and push Italians, especially if they're a vilified class, out of business, while exoticizing Italian culture and making a lot of money off of a culture that isn't theirs, yes, that would be cultural appropriation.

This seems to be the objection in Portland, yes. That white people own a unreasonable number of Mexican restaruants, and that this is a part of a larger economic problem where white people in Oregon are 50% more likely to own a business.

I don't imagine anyone would give a shit if these two girls lived in California, which doesn't have this problem.

I also don't think anyone in Oregon would be bothered if these two girls got jobs at a local Taqueria.

The problem isn't with them making tacos. I've made tacos. My mom made tacos for us growing up, and we're Canadian. This is fine, and nobody cares. The objection seems to be centered around who has a profit-making stake in the businesses that profit off of Mexican culture. In Portland specifically, it seems like a lot of white people do.

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And just clarifying something here--cultural appropriation isn't illegal. Near as I can tell there was nothing actually stopping these girls from making a business. And personally I don't think such a law should exist.

Now sure, I'm very aware that people on the internet can get downright nasty--I've been in the game industry 12 years now, and I'm personal friends with...several people who were targetted by trolls flying the GamerGate flag (four at least?) I get it, internet assholes making death threats, leaving 1 star reviews, and screwing up your google search results seriously sucks. I wish people didn't act like this (on either side). That said, among these four friends...only one left the industry.

These white taqueria girls...they could have stayed in the taco business. I don't blame these girls for backing out in the face of an internet mob, but I have personal friends who got sent worse shit than they did, and kept on working. (Although...do we know why they closed the business? Was it because of not wanting to deal with the internet mob, or were they swayed by the arguments?)
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Cultural appropriation is as non existent as white privilege. What they did to these girls was a crime and heinous.

VeryInsane posted...

I think this is the first time I've ever seen behindthecurve taken seriously

Had to happen at some point.

Though in this case, I'm fairly certain I won't convince him of anything. However, I might've made someone else think and look into the matter for themselves. Even if they end up disagreeing with me, that's still an accomplishment.
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IronmikeC posted...

Cultural appropriation is as non existent as white privilege.

It's funny because I can actually agree with this statement and have it mean the exact opposite of what you intended it to mean.

IronmikeC posted...

What they did to these girls was a crime and heinous.

White Republicans have done worse and defended it as free speech.
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BowserCuffs posted...

IronmikeC posted...

Cultural appropriation is as non existent as white privilege.

It's funny because I can actually agree with this statement and have it mean the exact opposite of what you intended it to mean.

IronmikeC posted...

What they did to these girls was a crime and heinous.

White Republicans have done worse and defended it as free speech.

They both don't exist...


And please name examples.

I live in Portland and think that sounds more like a Portlandia sketch than real life. My girlfriend's favorite cuisine is Mexican, so besides Chipotle we tend to get around and try as many places as we can (and there's fucking plenty in the PDX metro). I will say I've still yet to be served by a non-Latino person. I don't really care who owns it; I would assume financial status being equal the Latino person with the killer family recipe for enchiladas or something would have the advantage since we tend to judge pretty harshly around here on taste.

So I slant toward capitalism on this; I don't care who opens what kind of restaurant, it just better not suck. But I also wish the Latino/minority population had equal access to capital to start said business.

Sometimes I think Portland feels guilty for being the whitest major metro and wants to sound nice while currently gentrifying the north side.
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The bottom line is that burrito looks like garbage. There's literally french fries in it.
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foolm0r0n posted...

The bottom line is that burrito looks like garbage. There's literally french fries in it.

Burritos with potatoes in them are next level, step your game up.
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i gotta side with whoevers alt this is

shutting down restaurants because they're owned by white people feels like pointless revenge at best

like i'm trying to understand the opposite side but failing.

okay, so you're saying...it's harder for non white people to have the money to start a business? so we should even things out by... shutting down white people that want to start a business?

or... because some white people are racist towards Mexicans, no white people should be allowed to profit off of Mexican food?
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BowserCuffs posted...

Behindthecurve posted...

Just to be clear: White people selling tacos is cultural appropriation, but Mexican people selling pizza (for instance) isn't, right?

If we're talking about a situation where lots of Mexicans, who visited Italy as tourists once, and came back and decided to open up a whole bunch of "Italian Restaurants" and push Italians, especially if they're a vilified class, out of business, while exoticizing Italian culture and making a lot of money off of a culture that isn't theirs, yes, that would be cultural appropriation.

I don't get it, though. If they're being pushed out of business, doesn't that mean the Mexican weren't doing a good job with their businesses in the first place? If white people are making better-accepted Mexican food than the Mexicans, then maybe the Mexicans need to step up their game.
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This topic is hilarious

People getting tilted over stupid crap
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Burritos with potatoes in them are next level, step your game up.

Thanks for your opinion 3rd whitest person on b8
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Who are 1 and 2
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foolm0r0n posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Burritos with potatoes in them are next level, step your game up.

Thanks for your opinion 3rd whitest person on b8

Lmao someone's never eaten a burrito from actual Mexicans in Southern California.

Spoiler-alert: Lots of diced fried potato
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I know how good potatoes are in burritos

Not fucking french fries
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BowserCuffs posted...

It's that "white people does a thing, are celebrated - other people do a thing, get shunned, kicked out of schools, refused jobs, etc."

Well we all know how villified mexicans who own restaurants are in out society.
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VeryInsane posted...

Who are 1 and 2

Probably Ulti and whoever owns this alt.
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This is dumb and I feel bad for these legitimate business owners. It's not as often as the right, but the 'left' can do stupid stuff too.
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foolm0r0n posted...

I know how good potatoes are in burritos

Not fucking french fries

You know what french fries are made of, right?

Also, I lived in New Mexico for 7 years, where every other burrito is literally a burrito, covered in french fries, then all of that is covered in chile.

Then you eat the burrito + fries together with a fork.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

It's that "white people does a thing, are celebrated - other people do a thing, get shunned, kicked out of schools, refused jobs, etc."

Well we all know how villified mexicans who own restaurants are in out society.

You're snarking, but Mexican immigrants are pretty vilified all around in our society, actually.

That vilification, in no small part, helped elect Trump.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

literally a burrito, covered in french fries, then all of that is covered in chile.

want

Also I'm with everyone else who is mystified by people getting upset over a taco truck.
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