Poll of the Day > Mark Zuckerberg calls for a universal basic income

(+) Yeah! (+)

Revelation34 posted...

Unless they have a major scientific breakthrough by then there wouldn't be more jobs created. Except engineers who can repair the robots when they break down.

Firstly, you think engineers are the ones who repair robots?
Secondly, you don't think it's reasonable to make a robot who fixes other robots?

shadowsword87 posted...

Revelation34 posted...

Unless they have a major scientific breakthrough by then there wouldn't be more jobs created. Except engineers who can repair the robots when they break down.

Firstly, you think engineers are the ones who repair robots?
Secondly, you don't think it's reasonable to make a robot who fixes other robots?

So then the robot that fixes that robot breaks down. Then the next one does too.
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Revelation34 posted...

So then the robot that fixes that robot breaks down. Then the next one does too.

It's called a maintenance cycle, and exists purely for that reason.
So things don't all break at once.

shadowsword87 posted...

Revelation34 posted...

So then the robot that fixes that robot breaks down. Then the next one does too.

It's called a maintenance cycle, and exists purely for that reason.
So things don't all break at once.

Right. And there may be other forms of custodial automation that could detect all of the repair bots having been broken and order more (from another robot).
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shadowsword87 posted...

Revelation34 posted...

So then the robot that fixes that robot breaks down. Then the next one does too.

It's called a maintenance cycle, and exists purely for that reason.
So things don't all break at once.

Tell that to the EMPs
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I've got a better idea Mr. Zuckerberg. Instead of a basic universal income for everyone how about a maximum income of say 200k a person. Anything a person earns over 200k is automatically transferred into a basic income tax that would be used to help the less fortunate.
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Sounds good on paper. Execution would be literally impossible though. There's just too many variables. Inflation would make the whole thing obselete anyhow.

jamieyello3 posted...

Zeus posted...

In general, celebrities are just laypeople with a louder voice. There's really no reason to take their opinions on matters outside their realm of experience any more seriously seriously than those of the guy bagging your groceries (aka Argo, zing!)

With lay people opinions average out into one. For them to get to the top they have to be good at representing people. With celebrities, it's just one zany unproven person in who bought themselves a good slander campaign. Someone who maybe didn't even make their own fortune. *cough*

Given your jumbled mess, I suspect you don't understand what a layperson is.

shadowsword87 posted...

Zeus posted...

As humorous as it is to see you bringing luddism to the 21st century, major disruptions to labor lead to labor shifts. Back when industrialization was rendering people obsolete, nobody could have predicted the jobs that later followed yet somehow employment picked up. Sitting in your armchair today, you can't predict tomorrow's jobs either. More importantly, all of this overlooks that countless jobs that were done in the US are now being done overseas and not by robots, but by people.

And horses would have been saying that when cars were invented and popularized, at look at them now.
Saying "things will work out in the future", doesn't always work.

Countless things wrong with that argument. First off, horses had no function for most of recorded history. They were domesticated reasonably late, took forever to be selectively bred into a useful form, and then briefly enjoyed a period of moderate ubiquity. However, horses were never as mainstream as most people assume because, as a form of transit, they were too expensive for the common man to keep. Cars are far more prevalent than horses ever were.

Secondly, horses STILL serve countless functions as is. It's not like they were entirely replaced by cars or other conveniences. They're still used for sport and recreation, not to meant used in popular entertainment.

Finally, you're trying to equate mankind to a TOOL that mankind employed, which is flawed for countless reasons. There are a lot of tools we stopped using. However, we've never stopped using people in societies. The vast majority of the human population started off as gatherer-hunters. From there, most transitioned to farmers while a select few occupied other roles. When we got good at farming, the old farmers transitioned to new roles in production. When the industrial revolution happened, labor gradually changed again. Throughout human history, the human worker has undergone multiple major shifts. The idea that "oh, this is it for them!" is a complete farce believed primarily by people with little imagination. Frankly, we're more likely to see cars become obsolete than human workers.
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Revelation34 posted...

Unless they have a major scientific breakthrough by then there wouldn't be more jobs created. Except engineers who can repair the robots when they break down.

It's not just a matter of science. Most of the jobs that didn't exist a thousand years ago weren't the product of science, they were the product of an evolving society with new wants and needs.

Revelation34 posted...

shadowsword87 posted...

Revelation34 posted...

Unless they have a major scientific breakthrough by then there wouldn't be more jobs created. Except engineers who can repair the robots when they break down.

Firstly, you think engineers are the ones who repair robots?
Secondly, you don't think it's reasonable to make a robot who fixes other robots?

So then the robot that fixes that robot breaks down. Then the next one does too.

Robots which repair and build robots -- a Master Mold, if you will -- are entirely within the realm of possibility. If you have a wide enough infrastructure for self-repair, that's not much issue. The harder part is robots with enough sentience and intelligence to continually upgrade and develop robots with human needs in mind. Otherwise you just keep having the same things constructed forever.

Kungfu Kenobi posted...

Right. And there may be other forms of custodial automation that could detect all of the repair bots having been broken and order more (from another robot).

Yes, specialized machines.

Sensual_T_Rex posted...

I've got a better idea Mr. Zuckerberg. Instead of a basic universal income for everyone how about a maximum income of say 200k a person. Anything a person earns over 200k is automatically transferred into a basic income tax that would be used to help the less fortunate.

That would discourage innovation and creation. In general, salary caps are neither a new idea nor a clever one.
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Zeus posted...

First off, horses had no function for most of recorded history. They were domesticated reasonably late, took forever to be selectively bred into a useful form, and then briefly enjoyed a period of moderate ubiquity

Bro, f***ing what?
Atilla the Hun, Gengas Khan, the Assyrians, all uses horses to wreck hell on the societies of the day. Basically from recorded history (the Bible) until literally World War 1, horses were used.

Transportation they were ubiquitous like American Culture, but that's it.

Zeus posted...

Secondly, horses STILL serve countless functions as is. It's not like they were entirely replaced by cars or other conveniences. They're still used for sport and recreation, not to meant used in popular entertainment.

I could compare numbers of horse populations, but I think you know they're not exactly reasonably matched nowadays.

Zeus posted...

Throughout human history, the human worker has undergone multiple major shifts. The idea that "oh, this is it for them!" is a complete farce believed primarily by people with little imagination.

But we have never seen mass displacements of workers, the closest we have seen is The Great Depression, which had unemployment at about 15%, we have never seen an entire workforce gone in a generation before, this will be something else entirely.

Also, whose job is it to make new jobs?
That's how the world works atm.