Current Events > Fareed Zakaria apparently had a epiphany about political correctness

(+) Yeah! (+)

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/28/us/fareed-zakaria-liberals-cnntv/

CNN)Fareed Zakaria said Saturday that though many liberals think they are tolerant, often they aren't.

Zakaria noted that "at the height of commencement season," many new graduates across the country had made their political views apparent, fromthe Notre Dame students who walked out as Vice President Mike Pence gave his commencement addressto thecrowd members who booed Secretary of Education Betsy DeVosduring a speech at Bethune-Cookman University.

"American universities seem committed to every kind of diversity except intellectual diversity. Conservative voices and views are being silenced entirely," Zakaria said.

The CNN host said he found this attitude strange, especially given that these incidents occurred on college campuses that "promised to give their undergraduates a liberal education."

"The word liberal in this context has nothing to do with today's partisan language, but refers instead to the Latin root, pertaining to liberty. And at the heart of liberty in the Western world has been freedom of speech. From the beginning, people understood that this meant protecting and listening to speech with which you disagreed," Zakaria argued.

That means, he said, not drowning out "the ideas that we find offensive."

In addition, Zakaria noted what he called "an anti-intellectualism" on the left.

"It's an attitude of self-righteousness that says we are so pure, we're so morally superior, we cannot bear to hear an idea with which we disagree," he said.

"Liberals think they are tolerant but often they aren't," he added.



To be fair conservatives are overall pretty intolerant, but it's good to see someone fighting back against this tendency to silence opposing views. Banning or avoiding ideas that challenge your worldview is the antithesis of what college should be about.
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Conservatives would need to go to college first in order to be silenced.

Yeah, that's what I call shitposting.
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He is absolutely right and it's good to see people finally waking up to this
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I'd boo Betsy DeVos as well, but I imagine I'd be willing to give almost anyone else a fair listen.
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people are being red pilled left and right lately.

Milkman5 posted...

people are being red pilled left and right lately.

As a libertarian I'm used to being ignored so it's all good
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has Fareed Zakaria had an epiphany about plagiarism yet?
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averagejoel posted...

has Fareed Zakaria had an epiphany about plagiarism yet?

Only if someone writes about it first
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Milkman5 posted...

people are being red pilled left and right lately.

As a libertarian I'm used to being ignored so it's all good

Likewise, but lord help me if I talk about race.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Zakaria noted that "at the height of commencement season," many new graduates across the country had made their political views apparent, fromthe Notre Dame students who walked out as Vice President Mike Pence gave his commencement addressto thecrowd members who booed Secretary of Education Betsy DeVosduring a speech at Bethune-Cookman University.

He is trying to say these were bad actions? Mike Pence and Betsy DeVos are horrible people.
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Iodine posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Zakaria noted that "at the height of commencement season," many new graduates across the country had made their political views apparent, fromthe Notre Dame students who walked out as Vice President Mike Pence gave his commencement addressto thecrowd members who booed Secretary of Education Betsy DeVosduring a speech at Bethune-Cookman University.

He is trying to say these were bad actions? Mike Pence and Betsy DeVos are horrible people.

Yes, but good people turn the other cheek, not boo.
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Iodine posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Zakaria noted that "at the height of commencement season," many new graduates across the country had made their political views apparent, fromthe Notre Dame students who walked out as Vice President Mike Pence gave his commencement addressto thecrowd members who booed Secretary of Education Betsy DeVosduring a speech at Bethune-Cookman University.

He is trying to say these were bad actions? Mike Pence and Betsy DeVos are horrible people.

You should not set out to silence those you strongly disagree with.
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joe40001 posted...

Iodine posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Zakaria noted that "at the height of commencement season," many new graduates across the country had made their political views apparent, fromthe Notre Dame students who walked out as Vice President Mike Pence gave his commencement addressto thecrowd members who booed Secretary of Education Betsy DeVosduring a speech at Bethune-Cookman University.

He is trying to say these were bad actions? Mike Pence and Betsy DeVos are horrible people.

You should not set out to silence those you strongly disagree with.

Shouldn't public speakers realize that they may have to deal with the possibility that people don't want to hear their shit?

Shit, the Baptist university I graduated from didn't allow Bill Nye on campus. He spoke at the local community college, which makes a lot of money because of the fact that my alma mater will be selective on who speaks there.
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Kineth posted...

joe40001 posted...

Iodine posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Zakaria noted that "at the height of commencement season," many new graduates across the country had made their political views apparent, fromthe Notre Dame students who walked out as Vice President Mike Pence gave his commencement addressto thecrowd members who booed Secretary of Education Betsy DeVosduring a speech at Bethune-Cookman University.

He is trying to say these were bad actions? Mike Pence and Betsy DeVos are horrible people.

You should not set out to silence those you strongly disagree with.

Shouldn't public speakers realize that they may have to deal with the possibility that people don't want to hear their shit?

Shit, the Baptist university I graduated from didn't allow Bill Nye on campus. He spoke at the local community college, which makes a lot of money because of the fact that my alma mater will be selective on who speaks there.

But it should not be institutions of learning or vocal boos or protests that silence discourse. You personally don't have to listen, but don't try to prevent others from talking.
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joe40001 posted...

But it should not be institutions of learning or vocal boos or protests that silence discourse.

A) who should silence discourse then?
B) what the hell do you think the purpose of a protest is?

You personally don't have to listen, but don't try to prevent others from talking.

That's true. Not everyone feels that way, hence why some people protest.
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And at the heart of liberty in the Western world has been freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech does not necessarily entitle one to an audience though.

It's why the booing (and other attempts to shut down speakers at colleges) is uncalled for, but I can't really fault anyone who walks out or simply doesn't attend in the first place. Only the former tries to induce silence, the latter not so much.
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The Catgirl Fondler posted...

And at the heart of liberty in the Western world has been freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech does not necessarily entitle one to an audience though.

It's why the booing (and other attempts to shut down speakers at colleges) is uncalled for, but I can't really fault anyone who walks out or simply doesn't attend in the first place. Only the former tries to induce silence, the latter not so much.

Yeah that's fair.
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joe40001 posted...

Iodine posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Zakaria noted that "at the height of commencement season," many new graduates across the country had made their political views apparent, fromthe Notre Dame students who walked out as Vice President Mike Pence gave his commencement addressto thecrowd members who booed Secretary of Education Betsy DeVosduring a speech at Bethune-Cookman University.

He is trying to say these were bad actions? Mike Pence and Betsy DeVos are horrible people.

You should not set out to silence those you strongly disagree with.

it's not an issue of disagreement. it's an issue of them being horrible people who don't deserve an audience
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I've had to listen to numerous idiots give commencement addressess but never considered walking out because I respected the platform they were given. Fuck these sensitive little fucks.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

CNN)Fareed Zakaria said Saturday that though many liberals think they are tolerant, often they aren't.

Understatement of the century
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averagejoel posted...

joe40001 posted...

Iodine posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Zakaria noted that "at the height of commencement season," many new graduates across the country had made their political views apparent, fromthe Notre Dame students who walked out as Vice President Mike Pence gave his commencement addressto thecrowd members who booed Secretary of Education Betsy DeVosduring a speech at Bethune-Cookman University.

He is trying to say these were bad actions? Mike Pence and Betsy DeVos are horrible people.

You should not set out to silence those you strongly disagree with.

it's not an issue of disagreement. it's an issue of them being horrible people who don't deserve an audience

Why are they horrible people who don't deserve an audience?
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lmao are people trying to argue against others using their own free speech to boo someone like DeVos? Jesus Christ.

And you're fucking brainwashed if you think there was anything wrong with the students walking out on Pence. Freedom of speech does not mean there is a requirement you are given an audience.
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Bio1590 posted...

lmao are people trying to argue against others using their own free speech to boo someone like DeVos? Jesus Christ.

And you're fucking brainwashed if you think there was anything wrong with the students walking out on Pence. Freedom of speech does not mean there is a requirement you are given an audience.

You have fundamentally missed the entire point of that article.

No one ever suggested that people don't have the right to be intolerant of other ideas.
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Mal_Fet posted...

Bio1590 posted...

lmao are people trying to argue against others using their own free speech to boo someone like DeVos? Jesus Christ.

And you're fucking brainwashed if you think there was anything wrong with the students walking out on Pence. Freedom of speech does not mean there is a requirement you are given an audience.

You have fundamentally missed the entire point of that article.

No one ever suggested that people don't have the right to be intolerant of other ideas.

Exactly. Just because you have the right to act like an entitled, intolerant little bitch doesn't mean you're immune from criticism for acting that way.

Fareed is totally right about colleges fostering racial diversity but pushing intellectual homogeneity.
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joe40001 posted...

averagejoel posted...

joe40001 posted...

Iodine posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Zakaria noted that "at the height of commencement season," many new graduates across the country had made their political views apparent, fromthe Notre Dame students who walked out as Vice President Mike Pence gave his commencement addressto thecrowd members who booed Secretary of Education Betsy DeVosduring a speech at Bethune-Cookman University.

He is trying to say these were bad actions? Mike Pence and Betsy DeVos are horrible people.

You should not set out to silence those you strongly disagree with.

it's not an issue of disagreement. it's an issue of them being horrible people who don't deserve an audience

Why are they horrible people who don't deserve an audience?

Mike Pence wants to electrocute gay people aed Betsy Devos wants to make the american education system even worse
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averagejoel posted...

joe40001 posted...

averagejoel posted...

joe40001 posted...

Iodine posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Zakaria noted that "at the height of commencement season," many new graduates across the country had made their political views apparent, fromthe Notre Dame students who walked out as Vice President Mike Pence gave his commencement addressto thecrowd members who booed Secretary of Education Betsy DeVosduring a speech at Bethune-Cookman University.

He is trying to say these were bad actions? Mike Pence and Betsy DeVos are horrible people.

You should not set out to silence those you strongly disagree with.

it's not an issue of disagreement. it's an issue of them being horrible people who don't deserve an audience

Why are they horrible people who don't deserve an audience?

Mike Pence wants to electrocute gay people aed Betsy Devos wants to make the american education system even worse

Trying to figure out whether what you said was dense satire of the over-simplification of opponents' views resulting in ignorantly shutting down discourse, or an actual example of it
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averagejoel posted...

joe40001 posted...

averagejoel posted...

joe40001 posted...

Iodine posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Zakaria noted that "at the height of commencement season," many new graduates across the country had made their political views apparent, fromthe Notre Dame students who walked out as Vice President Mike Pence gave his commencement addressto thecrowd members who booed Secretary of Education Betsy DeVosduring a speech at Bethune-Cookman University.

He is trying to say these were bad actions? Mike Pence and Betsy DeVos are horrible people.

You should not set out to silence those you strongly disagree with.

it's not an issue of disagreement. it's an issue of them being horrible people who don't deserve an audience

Why are they horrible people who don't deserve an audience?

Mike Pence wants to electrocute gay people aed Betsy Devos wants to make the american education system even worse

He probably wants to shock them because electrocute is murder.

Still sounds more ideological than actually "being horrible", like murdering is horrible. Thinking bullshit about cutting funding about education is dumb but not horrible, unless she legitimately is just doing it because it gets her off to know children will suffer.
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averagejoel posted...

joe40001 posted...

averagejoel posted...

joe40001 posted...

Iodine posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

Zakaria noted that "at the height of commencement season," many new graduates across the country had made their political views apparent, fromthe Notre Dame students who walked out as Vice President Mike Pence gave his commencement addressto thecrowd members who booed Secretary of Education Betsy DeVosduring a speech at Bethune-Cookman University.

He is trying to say these were bad actions? Mike Pence and Betsy DeVos are horrible people.

You should not set out to silence those you strongly disagree with.

it's not an issue of disagreement. it's an issue of them being horrible people who don't deserve an audience

Why are they horrible people who don't deserve an audience?

Mike Pence wants to electrocute gay people aed Betsy Devos wants to make the american education system even worse

Where does this guy get his information? This level of ignorance is even worse than cjsdowg.
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You choose terrible people to defend on a regular basis.
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Kineth posted...

You choose terrible people to defend on a regular basis.

You can say somebody shouldn't be silenced without liking them at all.

One thing you seem to not get is that often the best way to make a stupid person look stupid is to give them a platform to talk. It relates to both this topic and the other one.
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Being able to listen to an opposing viewpoint without having a temper tantrum should be a basic requirement to be a voter in a democracy.

No matter how self-righteous you think your cause is, there's always room for improvement and self-reflection.

This obsessive mentality with living entirely within a like-minded echo chamber prevents people from developing a good understanding of their opposition - hence why your political opponents become "terrible people". Life's a lot easier when you can throw aside cognitive dissonance by assuming your opposition are a bunch of baby-eating Nazis.
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The Admiral posted...

Exactly. Just because you have the right to act like an entitled, intolerant little bitch doesn't mean you're immune from criticism for acting that way.

But then when you criticize the conservatives for acting like that you get the whole "intolerant of my intolerance" loop that never ends.

"If you're not interested in listening to speeches by people you find to be morally repugnant, you're intolerant"

DeVos should of never been given the invite anyway. It was some ti grab headlines and the study body made its disapproval known well before she showed up
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Raikuro posted...

The Admiral posted...

Exactly. Just because you have the right to act like an entitled, intolerant little bitch doesn't mean you're immune from criticism for acting that way.

But then when you criticize the conservatives for acting like that you get the whole "intolerant of my intolerance" loop that never ends.

It's not that complicated. Unless Mike Pence was going off on a speech about converting gays or something, those students who walked out were just bitches. Conservatives would deserve the same criticism for walking out on Hillary.
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"If you're not interested in listening to speeches by people you find to be morally repugnant, you're intolerant

You can't objectively brand someone without letting them speak for themselves instead of learning about their views through the prism of others.

Otherwise you're likely basing everything you know about an individual on propaganda from your preferred political echo chamber.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

"If you're not interested in listening to speeches by people you find to be morally repugnant, you're intolerant

You can't objectively brand someone without letting them speak for themselves instead of learning about their views through the prism of others.

1. Pence and DeVos' views have been know for sometime now
2. You're not "learning about their views" from a commencement speech
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FrisbeeDude posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

"If you're not interested in listening to speeches by people you find to be morally repugnant, you're intolerant

You can't objectively brand someone without letting them speak for themselves instead of learning about their views through the prism of others.

1. Pence and DeVos' views have been know for sometime now
2. You're not "learning about their views" from a commencement speech

Known how? Based on selectively quoting them out of context? Based on OpEd articles? If you don't let them speak for themselves, everything you know could just be propagandist BS.

This is true for conservatives who only get their news from talk radio as well. If you plant yourself firmly into a comfortable echo chamber, you really aren't getting the full picture on anything, and you're not actually making educated observations.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

FrisbeeDude posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

"If you're not interested in listening to speeches by people you find to be morally repugnant, you're intolerant

You can't objectively brand someone without letting them speak for themselves instead of learning about their views through the prism of others.

1. Pence and DeVos' views have been know for sometime now
2. You're not "learning about their views" from a commencement speech

Known how? Based on selectively quoting them out of context? Based on OpEd articles? If you don't let them speak for themselves, everything you know could just be propagandist BS.

This is true for conservatives who only get their news from talk radio as well. If you plant yourself firmly into a comfortable echo chamber, you really aren't getting the full picture on anything, and you're not actually making educated observations.

Ok
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May I make a counter-argument?

The Republican party has been on a long march towards ideological purity. People here who are honest-to-God Republicans know this; people who don't hew to the conservative orthodoxy are pilloried, tarred and feathered, labeled "RINOs" (Republicans in name only) and shunned. This trend is clearly visible in the data, which shows the party drifting every further and further to the extreme right over the last thirty years.

https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/silver-datalab-boehner-3.png

First of all, I would argue that the party has not shown any tolerance of viewpoints towards people in its own midst, and so any self-pitying assessment by the right is fairly hypocritical.

Second, I posit that the really, really bad views -- things like racism, know-nothingism, anti-Semitism, anti-Muslimism, homophobia, etc. -- become all but enshrined in doctrine as you approach the extreme conservative fringe of the party.

This is the reason why, in the last few years, we have seen the re-emergence of white-supremacist and Neo Nazi groups into mainstream popularity. And why many people here will now immediately tell me it's okay for them to forget all the lessons they were taught growing up about prejudice, stereotypes, and not judging a book by its cover, and say it's perfectly justifiable for them to harbor fear and hatred and suspicion of Muslims based on this or that.

The truth of the matter is that these viewpoints are not defensible. They are hateful and bigoted, and the notion that they should now be entertained simply because they're becoming mainstream flies in the face of all logic. It's a piteous thing that being "red pilled" is now somehow considered a positive trait, given the misogynist overtone that term carries; it's a *ruinous* thing that our society now is being infected by so many of these -isms, which after Barack Obama's election in 2008, I was told had been forever defeated.

I do not fault the next generation one bit for resisting. Rather, I fault Fareed Zakaria for buying into yet another narrative from the right and enabling this transformation of our country further. Equating intolerance towards black people or gays with intolerance towards racists and homophobes is false equivalency.

Equating intolerance towards black people or gays with intolerance towards racists and homophobes is false equivalency.

Straw man argument
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joe40001 posted...

One thing you seem to not get is that often the best way to make a stupid person look stupid is to give them a platform to talk.

unfortunately, it also leads more people to believe whrt they say. which the US election demonstrated perfectly
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Coffeebeanz posted...

Equating intolerance towards black people or gays with intolerance towards racists and homophobes is false equivalency.

I don't know what a straw man is, but I'm going to pretend that this is one, because I can, and you can't stop me

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If you don't like someone's message, then don't listen to them. I don't get the idea of "I don't like this person, therefore YOU can't listen to them!"

Most conservative public speakers have a Q&A at the end of their speech. If what they're saying is horseshit, call them out on it.

Most of what I hear as to why liberals want to shut down conservatives is because they're spreading "hate speech." If "hate speech" is that persuasive then you need to step up your game and combat it intellectually. No, what is actually happening is conservatives are the only ones bringing logic, reasoning, facts, science, statistics, data, history, law, and court precedent to the argument. That IS persuasive, and it's why so many people are being red Pilled.

Screaming "racism" doesn't work against a well articulated argument. Liberals can't use facts because facts go against their narrative. Screaming "racism" doesn't work anymore. So, they're in a corner and must resort to physical violence.
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Coffeebeanz posted...

As a libertarian I'm used to being ignored so it's all good

that helps explain why you're so insufferable

treewojima posted...

Coffeebeanz posted...

As a libertarian I'm used to being ignored so it's all good

that helps explain why you're so insufferable

Since when did anyone think I was annoying? It's not like I talk politics often.
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ITT people don't see the glaring hypocrisy of deriding "the liberals!" and throwing out a plethora of insults towards them while preaching how they are the real intolerant ones.

But that's typical of CE
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Most of the responses are typical. Deflection onto the other side as per usual. What I think people fail to see is that this isn't an Us vs Them debate or article. It is an opportunity for a lot of Liberals to use something called self-reflection and realize that you know, he's right. Liberals are so used to existing in insulated bubbles of support for their ideas that they have all become Kings unto themselves. Their opinion, their beliefs are sacrosanct and not to be questioned or disagreed with. To do that is to invite derision or even banishment from their fiefdoms whether they be in college campuses or in online "communities". If you are so mentally immature and unfit to handle someone sharing an idea that doesn't jive with yours then perhaps you need to re-examine yourself and grow up a little bit.

"But Republicans!" Not the issue here, the issue is Liberals silencing all dissenting opinion and the fact that it's becoming more and more widespread and accepted by other Liberals. This is not the way. Look at the pure nonsense that's festering in the Liberal mind and ask yourselves if that's the way you want things to be. Being Liberal used to mean something much different than it does now. It's truly frightening to a lot of people to see how far the far Left is trying to take things. In their zeal to stamp out opposition and "evil" as they see it, they are becoming the same thing they claim to despise. It's a classic cycle and once again proving true.
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I think people just equate being Politically Correct with supporting Republican ideas.

Political Correctness has nothing to with you walking out or booing nasty people. If a Jewish person walked out on a Nazi giving a speech would people complain about political correctness.
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kewldude475 posted...

Is this another one of those "Be tolerant of my intolerance!" stances? Cuz by that logic everyone should be tolerant about every belief, and opinion we have about each other regardless since tolerance is king.

It's kind of a halfway thing. Like it's saying to be willing to and listen to the opposing view point but it's also presuming that they have something worth saying. Personally I find Pence and DeVos to be terrible people and at least in one of their cases completely unfit for office but if I was attending something they were scheduled to speak at I'd give them a shot.

Giving someone a chance to state their opinions and listening doesn't hurt anyone. Now when the positions they hold don't stand up under any sort of questioning or scrutiny that's when you learn they can't be trust.
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