Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Zeratul/Selvaria/Lu Bu/Squall/Turok vs. Raiden/Sorey/Kefka/Y' shtola

(+) Yeah! (+)

Zeratul, Selvaria, Lu Bu, Squall and Turok have challenged Raiden, Sorey, Lailah and Dezel, Kefka and Y'shtola to a fight! Location of the fight: Limsa Lominsa - The state capital of La Noscea; a bustling naval port with extensive docks, barracks and businesses, although no residents are present. Attackers will start by the Ferry Docks, with defenders starting at the Drowning Wench. Which side will win?

Guidelines
- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting
- Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
- You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
- Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
- The following conventions are in use for match topics: www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427
- If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
- This match will end in 24 hours.

Raiden is as seen in Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance with access to all of his weapons (save the Fox Blade) and upgrades available in that game. He doesn't require Zandatsu to recover. He has access to roughly one full bar of energy for Blade Mode and Ripper Mode. He also randomly has the power to expel lightning from his body in a limited capacity, as seen in Metal Gear Solid 4. He will start the battle naked and fully human. He'll run and cartwheel around the terrain, desperately hoping to avoid being seen. If he makes it to the other end of the terrain, Snake will be there to give him his gear back -- in this case his exoskeleton, weaponry and lightning powers. For some strange reason, all the enemy mercenaries after Raiden gets his equipment back will be using swords almost exclusively, and will have their weaponry replaced with blades for Honorable Samurai Combat.

Sorey is as he appears in Tales of Zestiria, with all orbs and talismans (though they buff only himself and his seraphim) and an endgame skill build. He enters the battle with 5 Blast Gauges and may armatize freely with his seraphim during the course of the battle, but armatization cannot be used to revive anyone. He does not have access to Siegfried.

Lailah, Mikleo, Edna and Dezel are accompanying Sorey into battle. They are as they appear in Tales of Zestiria, with an endgame skill build. They will enter battle with 5 Blast Gauges, and will be permanently invisible and inaudible to Y'shtola, Selvaria, Lu Bu, Joshua Fireseed, and Squall. Only two Seraphim may be on the battlefield at a time, with Lailah and Dezel beginning on the battlefield, and the others dwelling inside him. He may swap between them as seen in the game, and inactive seraphim will heal gradually over time, including from death, but they are considered defeated once Sorey is killed.
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Kefka is as he appears in FF6A in the last battle, having access to all attacks and skills from the fight aside from Trine and Heartless Angel. He additionally has all his Brave and HP attacks from Dissidia: Final Fantasy, as well as the Exhilarating Magic skill.

Y'shtola Rhul is as seen in Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward, with all the skills and traits of a Level 60 White Mage, including Raise. She also has the cross-class skills of Arcanist and Thaumaturge, and her Bravery/HP attacks from Dissidia. She cannot use Flow or Repose.


~VS~

Zeratul is as he appears in the Starcraft series, and Heroes of the Storm, with all of his skills other than Void Prison. During combat, he will be permanently invisible, detectable only by the shimmer of light refracting against his cloak.

Selvaria is as seen in Valkyria Chronicles, with access to her Valkyrur lance and shield as well as her Rhum machine gun. She cannot use her Valkyrur Flame self destruct power. Selvaria will prioritize the safety of Lu Bu over all else, even if they're on different teams.

Lu Bu is as he appears in Dynasty Warriors 7 and 8: Xtreme Legends, with his moveset from those games, as well as his additional moves from Dynasty Warriors Next and Warriors Orochi 3. He is equipped with a Halberd, Great Halberd, Sky Piercer (fire) and Sky Scorcher (lightning), starts with full Musou and has completed his skill tree. Lu Bu has come to battle on his war horse, Red Hare.

Joshua Fireseed is as he appears in Turok 2: Seeds of Evil, equipped with the Firestorm Cannon, Plasma Rifle, Razor Wind, Scorpion Launcher and some Sunfire Pods.

Squall is as he appears in FFVIII, Dissidia, and Kingdom Hearts (minus magic immunity) with all attacks, limit breaks, and spells featured within, but cannot cast Aura, Demi, Apocalypse, or negative status-inflicting magic. He is considered to have an optimal junction setup for stat bonuses, but gains no other benefits from junctioning and cannot summon. He has the benefit of the support ability SPR+60%.

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It's a game of cat, mouse, and rain that transforms into lightning! FIGHT!
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@greengravy294
@redrocket_pub

The floor is yours.
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"Remember Raiden, this is a Sneaking Mission." - Roy Campbell, paraphrased.

Starring Raiden as Naked Raiden. A young man, with plenty to prove. He's performing naked cartwheels. He's very embarrassed being tailed by a man wearing a top hat.

And Dezel, his funny and charming partner.

gravy presents, "A Big Man at the Missing Member" coming to your Mercs match.......now.


Anyway outside of the funny movie tagline (poster this tbqh).

Raiden is tagged along by Dezel. Dezel has Quickness, a buff that literally increases movement speed. On this terrain, we're basically in a city. Attackers start at the pier, defenders in the Missing Member (lol). What this says is they are on two decks. The enemies start on the lower deck, while Raiden and pals are on the upper level.

Y'shtola knows a lot about exposing herself (https://youtu.be/-kNrqqaurrY?t=144) so she has symphy (typo intended) for Raiden. Strategic mind, and common denizen of La Noscea she also knows the in's and outs of the town. For instance there are Aethryte Crystals that are scattered throughout the terrain. Using them sends them to different zones of the city (auction block, guilds, etc).

With Dezel actively on the field he knows 1) where HIS allies are through wind-sense at all times as well as 2) where the enemies are as well. Presumably, he could use his wind-sense to locate where Snake is waiting on the map with his gear. With Quickness, Raiden and he are very mobile as well.

The use of the Aethrytes in city for quick travel and Dezel's locating, Raiden will find his comrade and mentor Solid "Ironquis Plisken (spelled it wrong deal with it)" Snake who will give him back his gear. The enemies will all fight with HONORABLE SAMURAI COMBAT which really nerfs I dunno all of them.

Even if Raiden doesn't want to use the Aether crystal to activate the travel exposing his junk to Dezel, they can still get around the map. There are many ways around in Limsa Lominsa:

http://www.ffxivinfo.com/maps/limsa-lominsa.php

There are four stairways between the Upper and Lower Decks. There is also an elevator, IIRC, that connects the Missing Member to the rest of the body. I mean, uh, there's an elevator that connects Upper and Lower, basically. And those little blue things that look like diamonds? Those are the Aethrite. IIRC, to use the crystals, you must attune at the central crystal: thankfully with a short elevator ride, they can attune very fast if the teleporting idea is sound (i.e. Snake is near a place connected to the travel system).

Finding Snake is only a matter of time and evading the enemies on this map is quite simple. Especially for a Man On A Sneaking Mission like Raiden.
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well this is a clusterfuck
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haha what Raiden

will read arguments later, but leaning toward Sorey + Kefka with healing backup being able to win the match regardless
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anyway basically even if raiden doesnt find snake fast, he can still evade the enemy. once he does, he can pretty much clean everyone up that's super hella nerfed.
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raiden cartwheels; kefka nukes
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sell me on why Raiden can't cross the terrain because Y'sh terrain knowledge + tactical espionage action is pretty compelling
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raiden

So basically if Raiden makes it, Selvaria loses her lance, loses her powers and they're all dead
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she doesn't lose her undying devotion to Lu Bu-sama
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Raiden crosses the terrain and he solos very very easily

Selvaria? No more lance, no more powers.
Zeratul? Not really a very good swordsman without his overpowered warp blades.
Lu Bu? Fights with a spear. Can probably handle a sword fine but it's not his forte.
Joshua? No guns.
Squall? Hurt the least, but his sword is downgraded tremendously even so, and he isn't going to be inclined to use magic.

Not even considering that Raiden's sword cuts through their swords super easily.
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Zeratul isn't that nerfed without warp blades in terms of skill - he's a blinky guy who managed to precisely cut somebody's hair braids without killing them even against a superior opponent. He just loses a lot of damage-dealing capability, which really blows against Raiden.
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I think Zeratul's aim is top notch

But he's an invisible assassin who uses a blade that basically cuts through anything. I doubt his actual technique game is very good at all when parrying and such is actually needed.
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If Raiden makes it does the horse get a sword?
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DeathChicken posted...

If Raiden makes it does the horse get a sword?

Your heart knows the answer
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This is a compelling argument for the horse's team. Gravy, what say you?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcJAWKdawuM


replace it w/ a sword
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i feel as if raiden can out sword in mouth a horse since he has experience doing it in mgs4
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Also a fair point
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in terms of sword in mouth to sword in mouth combat raiden's horse zapping powers truly is a difference maker.
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Raiden.

Sneak king.
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Nekkid Raiden
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Raiden isn't a native to Limsa Lominsa, the use of aetherite is not a valid argument (you have to attune each crystal seperately)

Quickness doesn't actually work that way. It doesn't even heal slow in game. It heals fatigue. But it doesn't matter. Naked Raiden gets to his gear and it becomes a stomp.
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I'd respect Red Hare with a sword.

Lu Bu on Red Hare actually has absurd movement speed. Going by him in the games he can cover this terrain in under 30 seconds or so. He can, incidentally carry a few people with him. In this case that'd likely be devoted Selvaria riding backseat. Personally I find this combo pretty damn powerful and while the two alone wouldn't be able to kill the enemy team, it'd be enough to knock out nude Raiden and probably Y'sh. Might die to Kefka.

I personally think Lu Bu on Red Hare has both the disregard for his own team and the might to carve a swathe through the enemy team here if he finds them. Looking at the terrain, personally I think it's more than possible for Lu Bu to find them.

Raiden would SOLO Lu Bu, come on now.
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ZeeksFire posted...

Raiden isn't a native to Limsa Lominsa, the use of aetherite is not a valid argument (you have to attune each crystal seperately)

Oh, in that case this is even more of a stomp.

On another note, what blades are the replacements? HF blades like in the fight after Raiden actually gets his shit back? That would actually mean Zeratul's pretty stronk and that you've given Lu Bu a MASSIVE strength upgrade.

Hell, HF Blade > Gun Blade too. Selveria and Turok get nerfed admittedly though.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Raiden would SOLO Lu Bu, come on now.

With everything he has on him, yeah. But I'm assuming here that he can't get to the other side, hence why I brought up movement speed and the fact I don't believe the terrain provides enough sneaking potential (especially with a guide).

Couple that with TPing not being a thing, Zeratul's tracking and telepathy and whatnot and honestly this looks pretty clear cut to me.

Actually, I think Raiden's screwed. He can't get the tactical backup of the Seraphim (hear or see, can get spells from them) until he gets his gear back (the ability writeup states he is fully human, which the upgrade to the seraphim state they can't hear/see), Limsa Lominsa is not exactly the best location to actually try to sneak through, and Selvaria there means that the attackers can deal with finding the opponent by just destroying buildings until they come into view.

To not make an edit to my last post, Raiden can't hear or see the seraphim but can get spells casted from them. He is considered just Human until he gets his gear back, which puts him under the invisibility notice of the seraphim ability.

ZeeksFire posted...

Actually, I think Raiden's screwed. He can't get the tactical backup of the Seraphim (hear or see, can get spells from them) until he gets his gear back (the ability writeup states he is fully human, which the upgrade to the seraphim state they can't hear/see), Limsa Lominsa is not exactly the best location to actually try to sneak through, and Selvaria there means that the attackers can deal with finding the opponent by just destroying buildings until they come into view.

raiden can see seraphim, he's partially robotic and the write up doesnt exclude him from seeing him. It Works
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Naked Cartwheels (Start of Battle) - Once every seven weeks, Raiden can show up to battle mysteriously fully human, completely naked. He'll run and cartwheel around the terrain, desperately hoping to avoid being seen. If he makes it to the other end of the terrain, Snake will be there to give him his gear back -- in this case his exoskeleton and weaponry. For some strange reason, all the enemies after Raiden gets his equipment back will be using swords almost exclusively. All enemy mercenaries will have their weaponry replaced with blades for Honorable Samurai Combat.

Note the bolded.

KanzarisKelshen posted...

and will be permanently invisible and inaudible to Y'shtola, Selvaria, Lu Bu, Joshua Fireseed, and Squall.

unless this is wrong, he can hear them
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Lailah, Mikleo, Edna and Dezel are accompanying Sorey into battle. They are as they appear in Tales of Zestiria, with an endgame skill build. They will enter battle with 5 Blast Gauges, and will be permanently invisible and inaudible to Y'shtola, Selvaria, Lu Bu, Joshua Fireseed, and Squall.

note the write up
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ZeeksFire posted...

Naked Cartwheels (Start of Battle) - Once every seven weeks, Raiden can show up to battle mysteriously fully human, completely naked. He'll run and cartwheel around the terrain, desperately hoping to avoid being seen. If he makes it to the other end of the terrain, Snake will be there to give him his gear back -- in this case his exoskeleton and weaponry. For some strange reason, all the enemies after Raiden gets his equipment back will be using swords almost exclusively. All enemy mercenaries will have their weaponry replaced with blades for Honorable Samurai Combat.

Note the bolded.

It's irrelevant. The Seraphim check for wiki classification and Raiden doesn't lose his Robot classification due to wording slop on naked cartwheels. He can see Dezel even though he's fully human.
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I kinda buy that Raiden can't see the Seraphim if that's flavor and not just random mercs garbage

But he also doesn't need them
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I disagree. That ability seems to even ACKNOWLEDGE the difference from his main write up by saying he shows up MYSTERIOUSLY Fully Human.
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yeah I'm going with my initial reaction here

Kefka + Sorey with good healing backup win this match regardless of what Raiden does. if Raiden makes it in time, then so much the better for his team.
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Lopen posted...

I kinda buy that Raiden can't see the Seraphim if that's flavor and not just random mercs garbage

But he also doesn't need them

It's both. And he certainly does need them.

1. Raiden is Human until getting gear back. He is taking his scene from MGS 2 where he doesn't have any of his abilities to run up/down walls, damage resistance, etc.
2. The actual writing of the seraphim from the mercs' setup, Sorey's seraphim are permanently invisible and inaudible to all humans and beasts, both allies and enemies, except for Sorey. This is also canon legitimate, as shown from the tales wiki. Seraphim are invisible to all humans except those with high resonance.

And lets be honest, Raiden is really garbage in the mgs2 naked scene. I'd put him as a 2, (would 3 but -1 due to not being able to attack per writeup) Anyone on the opposing team could kill him, and Limsa lominsa is a lousy map for stealth. Sure the majority are voting the other way, but this is much akin to the situations that happened in early mercs, where people grabbed defeat from the jaws of victory, due to bad ability/location usage. Without bothering to use cartwheels, it would have been an easy fight, but via using that ability, it is such a power swing to the team comparing a team with Raiden vs a team without.

Zeratul

this match feels nostalgic
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hot take

they don't need raiden to make it to win

it's just a lolstomp if he does
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Fun Fact, Squall has access to Curaga and Esuna. Raiden's team isn't the only one with healing spells. Squall is a full blown white mage himself. Oh wait, there's more! He also has access to haste, protect, and shell for buffing his team, and offensively he has access to all -aga spells, Flare, Holy, and the ULTIMATE POWER.......Ultima. He's a full blown red mage actually, on top of his impressive swordsmanship.

Zeratul defintely has what it takes to find Raiden. Once Zeratul discovers him, a naked Raiden gets insta ganked. From there we have Lu Bu holding the front line with insane backup fire from Selvaria and Turok's arsenal of weaponry. Squall can sit there and spam curagas all day on a team that's already covered with protect and shell. Meanwhile, Perma invisible Zeratul sneaks around to wreck devastation on the opposing team's backfield. A phase blade through the back drops Y'shtola and with their healer down the other team is on their way to destruction.
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How is Raiden gonna stealth across the map versus a basically invisible person, a dude riding a horse giving him better ability to survey the terrain, and a dude with a scorpion launcher?
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Because Dezel knows where all of the enemies and Snake are in a rather large terrain? They dont even start in line of sight let alone the same floor.
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He sneaks past dozens of armed military guards and surveillance cameras in narrow singular rooms.

Sneaking past 5 people in an entire city seems super easy.
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Angel Kefka in the middle of the terrain going UWEE HEE HEE HEE and nuking everything in sight is a pretty big distraction.

Also, because it's a city, there's a decent amount of cover and a lot of alternate paths to take. It's not a primo stealth terrain but with Kefka/Sorey drawing the aggro I think it'll do.
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He sneaks past dozens of people who aren't aware they're in combat, true this is different, also being naked in a city is a large disadvantage as he'll stick out like a sore thumb.
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