Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Frog/Tails/Kaos/ Claire/Nisha vs. Crono/Tidus/Juliet /Geese/Neclord

(+) Yeah! (+)

KJH posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vampire_traits_in_folklore_and_fiction

It's literally listed here. >_>

Everything's different though! Sunlight's easily the most universal one, but water (not even holy water) is totally brought up less than stakes, crosses, or garlic in most of the media I've seen. And then I'd have thought holy water as a weakness before regular water too.

To be fair, more video games on there list it as fatal than ones that don't!
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Initial thoughts now that I can like, actually look at matches:

-Borderlands gunz maybe no-sell water. Maybe. Unsure. Nisha already did her job by making juliet turrible tho
-Kaos vs Neclord is a really cool boss battle. Dunno who wins it but both are very good in this environment.
-Tidus vs Frog is close until Tidus hastes himself. Then it's not.
-Tails is actually decent here! He has underwater movement featz, don't mess yo
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ive come to the conclusion tidus > frog in water

the home field advantage for the amphibious denizen just isnt even for Star Blitzballer of the Zanarkand Abes
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Going back to Mythbusters, I recall they actually showed that firing something like an anti-tank rifle will do nothing in water. Doesn't matter how strong the gun is, the water adds mass to the bullets and the bullets drop like a stone. Science, dawg.
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bl guns are worthless in water can confirm this as an opinion
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Tidus has buffs, but Frog has healing. Also, Haste will really on benefit Tidus, as everyone else on his team can only just paddle around a bit.

Also, reppuken travels across the ground. Don't think it will necessarily work well here.

I don't think Frog is focusing on healing if he's trying to get to Neclord. He'll have his own problems getting cut up by Tidus and taking lightning bolts to the face.
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I'm also thinking all it really takes is Tidus smacking Frog with something like Delay Buster and this one is basically over as Neclord will proceed to fry him. Then the only threat left on the field is Kaos, and frankly those beams of his are the kind of thing a hasted Tidus would juke in his sleep.
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Something else to note about Kaos is that he also has attacks the generate healing items while homing on their target.

So if Tidus is giving him problems he probably just does thaf and spawns heals for Frog while hes at ut.
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I don't think Mr. Inferiority Complex Kaos would decide Tidus kicking his ass is a good cue to bother keeping Frog alive with heals (someone he would probably *hate* all things considered. Putting a do-gooder knight in front of him is a decent cue to send Kaos into a rant).
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tidus

DeathChicken posted...

I don't think Mr. Inferiority Complex Kaos would decide Tidus kicking his ass is a good cue to bother keeping Frog alive with heals (someone he would probably *hate* all things considered. Putting a do-gooder knight in front of him is a decent cue to send Kaos into a rant).

Its more of a "oh hes dodging my sharks? Guess ill do sonething else"
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I don't want to hear anything about ideal teammates either. If it comes down to Kaos helping Frog or Kaos saving his own ass versus the incoming death that is Tidus, Kaos is going to save his own ass. Not that he could, *Spyro* manages to do a decent enough job of dodging everything he has and shooting him in the face. Tidus gonna take him apart.
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Kaos has worked with the Skylanders on more than one occasion to accomplish his own goals, so...
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Its an attack that just coincidentally generates healing items and is homing which is what youd want to use on a dodgy dodgy
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StealThisSheen posted...

Kaos has worked with the Skylanders on more than one occasion to accomplish his own goals, so...

After which he happily betrayed them at the nearest opportunity. Hence the final boss battle.
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DeathChicken posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

Kaos has worked with the Skylanders on more than one occasion to accomplish his own goals, so...

After which he happily betrayed them at the nearest opportunity. Hence the final boss battle.

Right, but he'd have no reason to betray Frog until the job's done, as it'd hurt his own chances
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Frankly Tidus is annoying enough that if he got in his face, Kaos would probably blow his lid trying to kill Tidus dead. I don't think his attention would really be anywhere else.
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yeahhh waterball
- pistols are useless underwater (the water makes it so the gunpowder can't ignite properly iirc), unless someone wants to convince me that Nisha's pistols are super special
- lol Tails underwater
- lol Geese underwater
- I'm not super-sold on Frog. actual frogs are pretty good swimmers (see below), but Frog doesn't really have a frog's body shape/musculature -- he's more like a human with the head of a frog. lookit those stubby legs. I guess for now I'll give him the benefit of the doubt to be decent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_N3nEGyt4Ak#t=35s

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11122/111225835/5054018-frog.jpg

so that leaves us with Tidus + Neclord + Crono vs. Frog + Kaos. Tidus wins the ranged battle, Neclord/Crono win the ranged battle. not that it's that simple in the actual fight but there's a pretty big power mismatch here

I wanna be a blitzboy when I grow up (team tidus)
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It's not even the gunpowder (although that is a problem too) so much as water flooding the barrel jams up everything and makes bullets weigh a ton. There's a video out there of a guy testing this by standing on a pool a few feet away from an assault rifle, letting it shoot at him and the bullet falls dead at his feet.
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In a pool rather, I think you'd have to be Tidus to stand on a pool
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Found it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzm_yyl13yo
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if geese does a raging storm in waterball is the storm even greater.
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Probably

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkGwnKOxmLE
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Doom sharks
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I buy Tie-dus > Frog and then Neclord > Kaos.

Pieces fall from there.
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But doom sharks
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It's a slightly ambiguous whether or not water would harm Neclord, we never see him take a dip in a pool but it is true that Runic Vampires do not have the traditional vampire weakness and that water magic can be used to heal your Runic Vampire teammate in Suikoden II.

Lopen posted...

... actually now that I think about it the water runes only have healing in Suikoden 1/2. Are there any water (not ice) attacks in those games?

In Suikoden I you can attach a water rune piece to your weapon, giving it Water damage. Neclord is still listed as being resistant to all elemental damage post-SDS besides Holy/Resurrection

http://gensopedia.com/wiki/Neclord_(Suikoden_Boss)
[click Neclord Castle tab]
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I only just now realized I posted the same video as SEP (which I independently googled)

^5 SEP
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edit: and ^5 eddv
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The main thought would be is if Frog could land a slurp cut on Neclord.which would be the best shot in neutralizing the situation, but the odds don't look that good in getting a successful hit in a pool, (although the odds of not-tidus dodging it successfully is the same) It's the best shot strategy but i don't buy the chances of it happening.

Come on guys a pool is NOT running water. Even if it's a Blitzball pool.
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FFDragon posted...

I buy Tie-dus > Frog and then Neclord > Kaos.

Pieces fall from there.

I buy this too, leaning in this direction. Does Frog have any water related feats short of "being a frog" because he's really kind of a dude/frog combo that mostly does dude things. Unless having water spells as his elemental mastery means something? He does have his frog summon attack, which could be cool.
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Can team kaos ride the doom sharks?
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As said earlier, I think the closest Frog even gets to water in Chrono Trigger is when Magus knocks him in a river and he washes up on the shore unconscious.
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Neclord

Agreed on Drak's hot take that Frog is a good swimmer but has poor swordsmanship form. Neclord unchecked is very bad.
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Tidus. Strongest already, especially with Haste. Neclord's next strongest with his range thanks to huge durability, and Frog would have to swim across an entire blitzball arena to reach him, and there's not even much in the way of things he could latch onto with his tongue given it's just a massive sphere of water. He'd end up having to fight Tidus to even stand a chance at reaching Neclord, nevermind Neclord's attacks along the way.
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Tidus + Neclord

With his swimming skills and time magic, Tidus is unmatchable in melee here. Neclord provides some very nice ranged back-up. His lightning will be very effective and he could also switch to slanging ghosts if he's worried about friendly fire.
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Tidus

Yeah, I'm sold. Tidus is enough to keep Neclord from getting tagged.
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the doom sharks have failed me

To be fair it was actually a pretty clever strategy (the sharks don't look impressive, but it's a huge ass deluge of 'em so it takes out most of the fodder in the pool imo). But there's not much you can do against Neclord. Though I guess most voters prefer Tidus here and I'm one of the few dudes that think Neclord is a top tier 3 merc that can bullshit matches into broken clause territory if you can't deal with him effectively.
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I think Neclord is very necessary to make the win clean

Tidus schools Frog or Sharkman but both at the same time I'm less convinced. With Neclord the match is kinda not debatable though.
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greengravy294 posted...

To be fair it was actually a pretty clever strategy (the sharks don't look impressive, but it's a huge ass deluge of 'em so it takes out most of the fodder in the pool imo).

That's what I was getting at. The sharks kill everyone but Tidus and Neclord, and Tidus has to spend all his time dodging them letting Frog probably land a hit on Neclord.

Yeah I just don't see Frog besting Tidus in swordplay. I'm pretty low on Tidus (I had O&S beating them in a duel for the record <_<) but he's very good in water. Even though Frog I think is definitely going to be a better swimmer I just can't see him beating Tidus. Maybe it's just my brain envisioning a frog, swimming in the water holding a sword that's partially anthropomorphized and how ridiculous it is.

Also I kinda feel like Neclord would find it really amusing a frog is charging him with a sword. Even if Tidus can't intercept (my headcanon says Frog can actually evade Tidus) Neclord is totally going to roast Frog with lightning that's supercharged in water. And have a really good, evil, laugh.

Thing with Neclord is if he's unchecked he basically solos. I don't feel like there is all that much in low tier that actually can bypass his extreme damage resilience. Like in mid you have guys with better weaponry that I think ignores it like say plasma but in low the only thing I can truly think of even being able to damage Neclord without disabling his "passive" is Juliet. Who is on his team to begin with and doesn't even have her chainsaw.

Fun match though. On land it's a lot more interesting so good choice of terrain. Tidus+Neclord in waterball is a nasty lineup that I don't think any constructed low squads really can deal with beside Lightning bullshit/Zero/ability hax.
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Like in mid you have guys with better weaponry that I think ignores it like say plasma but in low the only thing I can truly think of even being able to damage Neclord without disabling his "passive" is Juliet. Who is on his team to begin with and doesn't even have her chainsaw.

Y'shtola would take Neclord to the cleaners tbqh. White Mage vs Vampire is a hecka countermatchup. Same for Agnes. Great mages with holy access can bop him, but yeah it's kinda hard if you don't got that.

Neclord. Terrain won the match. On land Nisha absolutely massacres everybody here except for him and then Frog slashes him and that's all she wrote.
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Key word is weaponry. Obviously Holy is going to dumpster him!
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Another thing though is that I personally put Neclord as *faster* on the draw than most mages. He...doesn't have a windup for most of his stuff. He just points and kills you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgAyRkSlioo&t=2m37s
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Neclord
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(Still an utter travesty he beat Alice though. Alice with the Star Dragon pastes Neclord so fast his head would spin)
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