Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Flyn/Jaesa/Nep Haseo/Selvria/Richtr v Bowsr/Mants/Wily/ Heihachi/Alucrd

(+) Yeah! (+)

Flynn, Jaesa Willsaam, Haseo, Selvaria Bles, Richter Belmont and Neptune have challenged Bowser, Psycho Mantis, Dr. Wily, Strike Man, Heihachi and Alucard to a fight! Location of the fight: Commander's Room - The site of the battle with Psycho Mantis in Metal Gear Solid, complete with lots of random furniture to throw at opponents. Access to the rest of Shadow Moses is denied. Attackers start at the entrance, and defenders start by the commander's desk.. Which side will win?


Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

-Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
-You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
-Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
-If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
-This match will end in 24 hours.
-The following conventions are in use for match topics: www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427


Bowser has launched his massive, spiked shell from Mario Kart: Double Dash at the enemy team. It will start right in front of the enemy and rocket towards them when the battle begins, going in a straight line and ricocheting off of walls while gradually losing speed until it disappears.

Sega has won the console wars! Flynn, Jaesa, Haseo, Neptune and Selvaria will all benefit from a 50% boost to all parameters for the duration of today's battle.

Richter Belmont is as he appears in the Castlevania series, wielding his trademark Vampire Killer whip, 99 hearts, and all of his sub-weapons aside from the clock. He may use item crash attacks, though they will be demanding on his heart supply.

Flynn is as he appears by the end of Shin Megami Tensei IV, equipped with only the Plasma Sword, Plasma Gun, Almighty Rounds, White King armor set, and Hero Earrings. The only skills he has are all -dyne level elemental spells, Luster Candy, Great Logos, Doping and Salvation. The only apps he has are MP Recovery 2 and Auto-Pinpoint, and he cannot summon.

Jaesa Willsaam is as seen in SW:TOR, using her best equipment, fully leveled and with access to all of her role skills and other abilities, as well as cutscene powers (though no mind control or anything else that would fall under the 'broken' clause).

Haseo has the best armor, weapons, and skills from the end of .hack//G.U. Vol. 2. He does not have access to any Alchemized items, the Doppleganger weapons, or battle items (potions, scrolls, etc.)
---

Neptune is as she appears in Hyperdimension Neptunia Re;Birth1, at max level and with her best non-broken skills and equipment. She may activate her HDD form at any time, and whilst she cannot use Linked attacks, EX Finishers and EXE Drive skills can be used once the EXE Drive Gauge has been built up.

Selvaria Bles is as seen in Valkyria Chronicles, with access to her Valkyrur lance and shield as well as her Rhum machine gun. She cannot use her Valkyrur Flame self destruct power. She will be able to use a version of Astral Vision, creating a mirror image of them that copies all of her attacks, lasting 30 seconds at her choice of activation.

~VS~

Bloody Tears will play loudly throughout the entire match. Additionally, whenever Neptune speaks she will somehow do so in SoTN-style voice acting. All part of the Plan!

Bowser is as he appears in Super Smash Bros. 4, with his full moveset (except for his Final Smash and game mechanics like double jump and overshield), all of his abilities from Super Mario Galaxy, Bowser's Inside Story, and limited use of his Mario RPG spells. He may use his minion summoning techniques from Bowser's Inside Story. He will transform into Giga Bowser, as he appears in the Super Smash Bros. series. The transformation begins from when Bowser first encounters the enemy team, and lasts for 50 seconds.

Heihachi Mishima is as seen in the Tekken series, a skilled practitioner of Mishima Style Fighting Karate.

Psycho Mantis is as seen in Metal Gear Solid. He has full use of his psychokinesis and telepathy, levitation, and his optic camouflage. He will not necessarily be able to dodge every attack just because he can read his opponent's minds, cannot mind control his opponents, and cannot break the fourth wall or use his BLACKOUT attack in the battle.

Dr. Wily is as he appears in Mega Man 10 in his respective Wily Machine. He does not have access to the Wily Capsule. Wily cannot exit his machine and will be considered defeated when his machine is defeated.

Strike Man is as seen in Mega Man 10. He is not limited to using his boss patterns exclusively.

Alucard is as he appears through the second castle of Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. He is equipped with the Cross, has access to his best non-broken equipment and relics up to that point, and does not have the Shield Rod or his intro equipment. He has the Mist relic, but no Mist time extension or poison. The only familiar he has with him is the Bat, which summons more bats to help Alucard when he transforms.

---

What is a Plan? A miserable little pile of secrets! But enough talk! HAVE AT YOU! FIGHT!
---

Even without the parameter buffs, Team Haseo are likely a good deal stronger here. Being 50% better on top of that and they just overpower the other team.

Don't get me wrong, this whole match is a mess, but the chaos doesn't really help Team Mantis at all. Giga Bowser and the Wily Machine are big enough that they likely take up all their team's space on their side of the room, and everyone over there is going to find moving pretty difficult. Which leaves them pretty vulnerable to the raw firepower coming from the other side. Double 150% Selvaria for example is pretty nasty just using her Lance where no-one can avoid it. Flynn and Jaesa can even fully heal the party up if necessary, with no cast times.

As for the shell, they have several ways of countering it. Selvaria effortlessly bats away tank shells in-game - this is a bigger target, is moving slower, and her reactions are 50% quicker than normal too. Jaesa also has Force Telekinesis to stop it in it's tracks

In short, Selvaria & co can withstand the initial attack and then overwhelm with buffed up better fighters.
---

@Luis_Sera89
@Kamekguy

The floor is yours. ENGAGE IN MELODRAMATIC COLLOQUY!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgkxSkF7QOU
---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWsFYSn7Gtg#t=40s

For those of you who forget just what the Commander’s Room looks like, it’s… slightly more generous than Spekkio’s Arena, but with no haven for flyers to avoid, say, a massive shell careening around. I’m sorry, did I say “a massive”? Let’s make that “two massive”.

Giga Bowser is here, and he is both mad and eternal. Now, there’s a funny property about Double Dash Bowser shells: they do not decrease in speed upon hitting something. In fact, if two Bowser Shells hit each other, they go careening in opposite directions. This is in contrast to Mario Kart’s green shells, which shatter if two hit each other. Bowser’s made of much sterner stuff. The thing doesn’t shatter when an entire Bowser’s Castle is dropped on it. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFtd8WG-FVg#t=15m57s). The only thing that can survive Bowser is, in fact, Bowser.

“But why would Giga Bowser, brute of fantastic strength and eater of children, withdraw immediately, incredibly handsome Kamek?” Well, first off, Bowser has planned for this shit, so he’s probably pretty set on it. Even if he’s not, though, Psycho Mantis can EASILY influence Giga Bowser’s puny mind into withdrawl. Keep in mind that Mantis is able to control an entire genome soldier army through essentially mental elevator music, and even while keeping an ENTIRE ARMY under control, he had time to fuck with Snake and try to get him to make love to Meryl. Dude saying “go in your shell” shouldn’t be a problem.

As a reminder, the Mario Kart Double Dash shell moves at a speed of 65 MPH and mows down non-cartoon semi trucks. This is starting MAYBE a meter away from the enemy team who doesn’t see it comin’. Just putting in some numbers with REAL MATH, 65 MPH travels at a speed of 29.0576 meters per second. This means that any merc on the enemy team has a two-frame window or 1/30th of a second to dodge the shell My team, meanwhile, KNOWS that the shell is coming and can prep themselves. Which can be done in the following ways:
---

Alucard - MIST FORM. Easy peasy mac & cheesey. Let’s just zip outta reality for a quick sec and let everyone else die. It’s only a few seconds, but it’s a FAR better position than most will be in.

Giga Bowser - Aforementioned shell and ‘being Giga Bowser’.

Heihachi Mishima - Honestly probably the most durable guy here, even past buffs and the like. Observe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4gNtaSj1zM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU3NKqO_LP4#t=1m15s (he survives this, I promise. No zombie shit either he just tanks it)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=birCrYH5gGA

Also his reaction times here are bullshit because he gets shot. Bullets, by the way, have about a muzzle velocity of around 1,700 mph. The guy is able to dodge bullshit like no one’s business.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0JkFTyKG48#t=3m30s

Heihachi is Akuma’s equal and dumb as Hell. Only instead of teleporting and murdering your soul and punching an island in half, he just tanks it and shakes it off because he’s a pissy old grandpa.

Psycho Mantis - Is dead, yeah.

Dr. Wily - Let’s not mince words, Wily’s a durable SOB. Mega Man’s Mega Buster punches through steel and stone walls alike uncharged. Wily Machine 10 takes one little pew pew of damage, for a total of tanking 56 direct Mega Buster shots. Moreover, here’s the boss in action (with someone perfecting it)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS5DLU2VNdc#t=4m28s

What’s notable about this Wily encounter, outside of the giant fuck-you tomahawk missiles coming out of PIRATE WILY’s mouth, is that he has a very quick projectile that holds Mega Man in place. The player quickly mashes out of it here in about a second, knowing it’s coming, but Wily able to just blindly throw out stuns at any time for the continued mowdown is just ridiculous.

Strike Man - It’s his last game until retirement. Hometown hero =)

NO ONE has time to dodge. Not Neptune, who will probably be stunlocked trying to transform over and over again with constant interruption. Not Jass-whatever, who even if she saw it coming just does not have the time to avoid something so large in an environment where everything’s getting smashed. Not literally who. No one has the force to bat it back or stop it - they will be reeling before they can do anything, and even if they could, Wily and Giga have the strongest brute repulsion on the field. Everything is dead, Giga Bowser is still spinning and likely relatively unharmed after all is done, and Alucard has an out even in the worst case “everyone gets nuked and dies in their own huge friendly fire explosion” situation.
---

Location of the fight: Commander's Room

Bowser has launched his massive, spiked shell from Mario Kart: Double Dash at the enemy team.

oh. well hmm.

I was just gonna vote for Team Lots of Powerful Dudes and call it a day, but this kind of makes things ugly fast.
---

Preliminary thoughts:

A) This is a clusterfuck.

B) No seriously this is a complete clusterfuck.

C) Bloody Tears for Alucard v Richter aww yiss

D) No matter who wins this clash, THIS IS AWESOME
---

tl;dr version:

-It is impossible for anyone to move their body fast enough to avoid shelllock at the speed and distance they’re at.
-If the shell hits Giga Bowser, his shell will move at the same speed, thus creating shell pinball
-Dr. Wily is the most durable mofo here even with parameter boosts and can stun and shoot giant missiles and is a pirate.
-Heihachi is cool. Age hasn’t slowed you down one bit.
-Alucard can turn into gas to avoid any AoE fallout from OH FUCK WE ARE TURTLE SOUP
-Bowser solos
---

Alucard, Bowser, and Wily are by far the best ones to cope with the shell running wild all over the place in the commander's room which gives me some pause when there shouldn't be much.
---

@Gatarix

Fun fact we almost also had a Tyrant in the middle of the room, complete with a giant claw, a giant heart, and a nonexistent penis

This match is just the greatest
---

On the other hand, these are good points:

Luis_Sera89 posted...

Selvaria effortlessly bats away tank shells in-game - this is a bigger target, is moving slower, and her reactions are 50% quicker than normal too. Jaesa also has Force Telekinesis to stop it in it's tracks

Does Jaesa have any particular TK feats?
---

Was about to instavote parameter boost team, but

Uh

This match
---

It takes no time at all to use Force TK since it's effectively done psychically and instinctively. Even if you don't think enhanced reactions Selvaria can manage it, it takes no effort at all for Jaesa to stop things like that dead and then toss them back.
---

Again, let me put into perspective that the shell is at most, a meter traveling at a speed of, being generously slow, 55 MPH. There is barely time to realize "oh hey there's a thing here" before it's already hit you. The human brain requires 0.25 seconds for a visual stimulus to register. The shell will be arriving in LESS than that time.
---

So my thoughts are these now that I've had time to look over arguments:

-Heihachi is good yo, Heihachi is really good. Tekken 7 did wonders for him!
-Giga Bowser is really scary here. In a bigger terrain he just gets kited, but he's totally inescapable in such close quarters.
-Contingent on Gigabowser's existence, Mantis gets to do some serious hallucination bullshit. This helps a lot in such a messy melee, friendly fire is real and possible.
-Selvaria batting away a tank shot isn't worth that much - IIRC she sees it's there and has multiple seconds to prep herself. It's more 'aim dodging' than anything else. Same for Jaesa reacting here - she has the usual Jedi/Sith precog, but that doesn't help when something's spontaneously generated by a Start of Battle ability and sent flying at you before you can react.
-Shell is just brutal at these distances. Everybody on team Flynn is getting shellacked by it - I don't think they die but it lets Team Bowser get a powerful first strike, which matters cause Team Flynn would crush them if they didn't get it.

Overall, I feel like the Shell is just too strong here. Alucard wins, and it's all part of the Plan. A lot of things had to come together to make this possible, and while it surprises me I'm voting this way, I feel like it's correct. Good job, Kamek.
---

Videos of relevant story cutscenes from TOR are impossible to find on the internet, but the offical Star Wars wiki vouches that it's something she can do (under Powers and abilities)

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jaesa_Willsaam

Off the top of my head, she never has to deal with projectiles, but she does use it to catch falling rocks in collapsing rooms, and held falling giant machinery in place to stop her and the player from getting crushed, so weight isn't an issue either.
---

Shell is just brutal at these distances. Everybody on team Flynn is getting shellacked by it - I don't think they die but it lets Team Bowser get a powerful first strike, which matters cause Team Flynn would crush them if they didn't get it.

It's worth noting that the shell from DD isn't that big, and the room that small, that the entire team of 6 would be in the direct line of it at the beginning. To suggest they're all grouped together like skittles when there's no reason for them to be is taking liberties too far in favour of Bowser's team.
---

team haseo slices the shell in half

come on guys
---

Oh, well there's that too. If you're going to give Frog credit to straight up slice the shell, there's at least four stronger melee fighters here who can do likewise.
---

It's worth noting that the shell from DD isn't that big, and the room that small, that the entire team of 6 would be in the direct line of it at the beginning. To suggest they're all grouped together like skittles when there's no reason for them to be is taking liberties too far in favour of Bowser's team.

I mean, I picture them standing in a loose line (some slightly ahead, some further behind) near the door. What the terrain says basically. Maybe not all of them are hit, but it's still a big deal and there's no real room to dodge the wily stuns or the gigabowser coming at them.
---

-FFDragon- posted...

Was about to instavote parameter boost team, but

Uh

This match

---

i kinda feel like the shell bipartisanly fucks with both teams equally though

man what a mess
---

greengravy294 posted...

i kinda feel like the shell bipartisanly fucks with both teams equally though

man what a mess

See if Bowser was his normal self I would agree

But the dude's kinda uh, big

https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/2/25/Giga_Bowser_Trophy.png/revision/latest?cb=20141201233125

He's what, three or four Marios/Peaches high? So like 15-18 feet? He can bodyblock the shell if it bounces back at him. It's why I think Alucard's team survives it more or less intact - bowser too big and, as per the Conventions, the room expands vertically so he can fit in if it's not big enough and would get telefragged. That turtle boy's gonna do work here.
---

KanzarisKelshen posted...

He's what, three or four Marios/Peaches high? So like 15-18 feet? He can bodyblock the shell if it bounces back at him. It's why I think Alucard's team survives it more or less intact - bowser too big and, as per the Conventions, the room expands vertically so he can fit in if it's not big enough and would get telefragged. That turtle boy's gonna do work here.

thats true i suppose
---

And again, unless you subscribe to the belief that the shell can't be stopped and the entire team is getting wiped, or that Flynn and Jaesa both happen to be in it's path by coincidence, they both have instant cast heals (and Salvation is a full heal), whereas the other team does not.

You need to be arguing that things go perfectly for Wily's team where the shell incapacitates everyone to the point they can't even use any of their instant cast spells, to allow the WIly Machine and Bowser to just wail on them without response for them to win. Because otherwise Flynn is fully healing someone strong to take the fight back to them.
---

Even if Bowser doesn't facetank, Wily can. Additionally, him facetanking doesn't interrupt the fact that he can shoot missiles and laser balls and shit, unlike everyone else. And again...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22tLJXcaCes#t=4m24s (check the right side of the screen here)

If a Bowser Shell and another Bowser Shell make contact, no matter the speed of the shell, they will start each other off in opposite directions.

Additionally, Bowser's shell doubles as a Bowser Shell. Therefore when the Bowser Shell hits Bowser's Shell, Bowser's Shell will act like a Bowser Shell. Because it is, in fact, a Bowser Shell. Or he could just, y'know, Whirling Fortress.
---

I don't have a vote here but if I did it would be "Giant Bowser kills everyone on this silly terrain"
---

My issue with the 'heal' idea is that works under the assumption that the shell is getting one pass at every team. It's getting several, and in that time, Wily is the best suited to do anything. Heihachi can probably honestly camp behind the desk or Bowser himself or something if you're giving time to react (and I honestly think that no one but Alucard "I choose to form into mist through the power of wanting to turn into it" Tepes has that reaction time with the shell travelling at a minimum 24 meters per second, which is, you know, longer than the entire room twice over).

Like if you can get a heal off in less than a second, I commend you there. And then the shell is coming back.
---

greengravy294 posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

He's what, three or four Marios/Peaches high? So like 15-18 feet? He can bodyblock the shell if it bounces back at him. It's why I think Alucard's team survives it more or less intact - bowser too big and, as per the Conventions, the room expands vertically so he can fit in if it's not big enough and would get telefragged. That turtle boy's gonna do work here.

thats true i suppose

How is Giga Bowser manoeuvring in this room? He's going to be cramped enough as it is, never mind with the Wily Machine next to him, so how is he bodyblocking it? He'd have to be starting with his back to the enemy in order for it to ping off of his shell, the front of him is a lot softer and would be getting hit just like anyone else could. I doubt he could retreat into his shell on reaction either - if you think the other team can't dodge on reaction, how if someone as relatively slow as Bowser going to?
---

It's in the conventions Luis (see the first post, 'the following conventions...' and follow the link - for some reason it's not highlighted, idk why). He's definitely gonna be cramped, but not 'literally can't move at all' cramped.
---

Uh... Giga Bowser doesn't really flinch though. That's like, his big thing. Like call 'gameplay mechanics', but GB not flinching at all from attacks or recovering really, really quickly from them is what Giga Bowser do, or at least what has been done in Brawl and Smash 4. GB getting into shell happens because he no-sells the other shell 'cause it's his thing to do that.
---

Kamekguy posted...

My issue with the 'heal' idea is that works under the assumption that the shell is getting one pass at every team. It's getting several, and in that time, Wily is the best suited to do anything. Heihachi can probably honestly camp behind the desk or Bowser himself or something if you're giving time to react (and I honestly think that no one but Alucard "I choose to form into mist through the power of wanting to turn into it" Tepes has that reaction time with the shell travelling at a minimum 24 meters per second, which is, you know, longer than the entire room twice over).

Like if you can get a heal off in less than a second, I commend you there. And then the shell is coming back.

In all likelihood, the shell is getting trapped in something bigger and softer than it, Giga Bowser, on it's return trip, if Jaesa doesn't outright stop it in the first place. I very much doubt it's getting the chance to ping around multiple times.
---

True. Don't think it's really going to deal much relevant damage but the disruption is very legit.
---

The shell bounces off of shit. Like, there's a giant dinosaur in MK:DD in Dino Dino Jungle, and the shell bounces off of its foot if it makes contact. Despite the dino's foot being bigger and squishier than the shell.
---

Also I do agree with Luis that Bowser isn't effectively bodyblocking. Guy is fucking slow. The shell is too fast for him, so it's probably bowling over dudes and ends up fizzling eventually from Jedi powers/whatnot.

So...perhaps the shell doesn't mean much. I dunno.
---

KanzarisKelshen posted...

It's in the conventions Luis (see the first post, 'the following conventions...' and follow the link - for some reason it's not highlighted, idk why). He's definitely gonna be cramped, but not 'literally can't move at all' cramped.

Oh, I didn't think he'd be literally locked in place, but having a yard's room to move is not the same as being able to freely move around without difficulty in a terrain that's smaller than you'd like. Especially not if his spikes get lodged in a wall when trying to do so, which is plausible.
---

I don't think Bowser really has to try to bodyblock. He's huge and going to do so pretty much just by virtue of being there. Luis is effectively arguing that Bowser is too big to move, yet not big enough that the shell will just... Go around him? C'mon, now.
---

Would you buy the other giant thing in the room to bodyblock even if you don't believe Bowser can (... which he by all accounts should be able to be because A.) game evidence he doesn't flinch and B.) the shell bounces off of squishier things than Giga Bowser while keeping momentum), by which I mean the robot that can shoot a missile the size of the shell at the shell? Or at Bowser, who could be in a shell? Thus making a second shell out of this shell hell?
---

Luis_Sera89 posted...

Oh, well there's that too. If you're going to give Frog credit to straight up slice the shell, there's at least four stronger melee fighters here who can do likewise.

to address this: i sincerely don't think anyone actually believed this.

...right?
---

yeah thing with bowser is that he bodyblocks by default, but he's not going to be able to tank it by repositioning. my vision of the fight is that he's in that back as a brooding monster, because that makes sense as a starting point. like if you have all your dudes behind the giant guy, you kind of are actually screwing yourself in a way by blocking your line of sight because giga bowser's butt is in your face
---

This match is amazing. This is why I love mercs.
---

greengravy294 posted...

Luis_Sera89 posted...

Oh, well there's that too. If you're going to give Frog credit to straight up slice the shell, there's at least four stronger melee fighters here who can do likewise.

to address this: i sincerely don't think anyone actually believed this.

...right?

At least one person (they know who they are) did!
---

greengravy294 posted...

yeah thing with bowser is that he bodyblocks by default, but he's not going to be able to tank it by repositioning. my vision of the fight is that he's in that back as a brooding monster, because that makes sense as a starting point. like if you have all your dudes behind the giant guy, you kind of are actually screwing yourself in a way by blocking your line of sight because giga bowser's butt is in your face

Oh, I agree. At the same time, I don't really think HE has to reposition as much as his team does. Heihachi for one definitely has the reaction feats to do so.
---

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-Mk_2Yt4Lc0/hqdefault.jpg

Wily is also big. But more than that, he is long.

Like it's kind of hard, even if he was put against the back wall, to not poke out in front. Odds of shell hitting that big skull face are quite high. And if not... well I'd imagine Bowser's on the other side of the room?

Skulls to the left of me.
Koopas to the right.
Here I am
Stuck in the middle with PSYCHO MANTIS

... also if Jessy over there can force push the shell, why not THE MOST POWERFUL PRACTITIONER OF PSYCHOKINESIS AND TELEPATHY IN THE WORLD
---

giga bowser booty is also kind of detrimental for team giga bowser as his spikey shell might be bad (joke)


I dunno, I think the raw parameter boost, better overall mercs (like Selvaria kinda sucks on this terrain but having 30 seconds of double image Selvaria firing a machine gun is kind of 'damn' tbqh), and instant full party cure probably offsets whatever the shell does at first. Flynn is certainly going to be able to dodge the shell (guy dodges lightning from Odin), and that's enough for me to strongly feel that the shell is probably ineffective in general.

i can be convinced if like kamek sells how the shell is good against certain members. i don't really think the shell is going to be split in half of something, so it's definitely going to go and bounce back -- unless jedi shit but fuck i dont know star wars sorry
---

StealThisSheen posted...

I don't think Bowser really has to try to bodyblock. He's huge and going to do so pretty much just by virtue of being there. Luis is effectively arguing that Bowser is too big to move, yet not big enough that the shell will just... Go around him? C'mon, now.

I don't understand what you're getting it, but I'm arguing that the Sith who can stop large objects travelling at high speed without even really needing to think about it stops the shell before it becomes an issue in the first place. But if it IS allowed to go on it's merry way, Bowser isn't in a position to be perfectly pinging it back.
---

... also if Jessy over there can force push the shell, why not THE MOST POWERFUL PRACTITIONER OF PSYCHOKINESIS AND TELEPATHY IN THE WORLD

If Jaesa and Mantis want to have a battle of telekinetic wills whilst the rest of the battle is going on around them, I think she's pretty ok with that!
---

I am also going to say that I think Bowser shell just isn't that impressive against mid tier calibur mercs. I think it ends up being a net neutral here. Like I feel the only guys on Team Rawstatz that wouldn't dodge are someone like MAYBE Jaesa but I really don't know her. Richter, Flynn, Haseo...all dodge without a problem. Selvaria with 50% probably dodges too, but I kinda forget her physical feats.
---

Like if Jaesa has Force Push that'd probably be compelling in itself.

That being said all I know in SW is basically force push/pull and force lightning so lmao
---