Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Mega Man X, Sephiroth, Yuna and Ifrit vs. Zeratul, D.Va, Fetch and Elma

(+) Yeah! (+)

FFDragon posted...

I don't think the match lasts long enough either way for her to build up meter for neon singularity.

She doesnt need to build up meter she starts off with full neon.
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So does anyone from either team besides DVA survive the inevitable self destruct
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Probably Elma?
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Eddv posted...

She doesnt need to build up meter she starts off with full neon.

yeah but it works like a limit break and not off of neon supply

it's a separate meter that builds up by killing enemies
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D.Va DEFINITELY doesn't live long enough to build her ult.

wait have you been trying to sell neon singularity as something she can just pop off?

that's awful disingenuous of you
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Why not shes in armor and can take a bit of a beating. seph and X are going to have their hands full with bigger targets anyway.

And yeah i just figured she started with one in the tank FFD because thise moves are stockable.
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We generally don't allow people to start with limit breaks/ultras/ultimates/meter moves unless specifically stated and I don't see why it would be different here.
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FFDragon posted...

We generally don't allow people to start with limit breaks/ultras/ultimates/meter moves unless specifically stated and I don't see why it would be different here.

Well because shes written in such a way as to not screw her and because its set up like Delsins Karma Bombs which are built in ways that arent just killing people - i did admittedly forget it works just slightly differently in First Light.
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I still have yet to see any counterargument to "Sephiroth fills the enemy's side of the room with huge AoEs during their initial hesitation."

Skyridge87 posted...

I still have yet to see any counterargument to "Sephiroth fills the enemy's side of the room with huge AoEs during their initial hesitation."

How about "theyre tanky as fuck".

Like big woop Fire. This isnt low tier.

Plus those still have casting times and Fetch and Zeratul are what you would call fast.

If there were some place to go they might sit there and cower but these are cornered animals they have no choice but to lash out - and they have great tools for that lashing out.

and as a note to FFD this is the first match I've gotten to use Fetch in and I am relying more on memory here than anything; no scum intended
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Seems plausible, although Sephiroth is never that efficient. He'd rather gloat and stab you and gloat some more.
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No seriously doesn't DVA essentially solo in this dumbest arena with no cover thanks to NERF THIS
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It doesn't screw her any more than every other merc who has to build up to do their ultimate move.

She starts with full neon, she can do whatever she likes with that.

Just not the thing she has to build up to.
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KamikazePotato posted...

No seriously doesn't DVA essentially solo in this dumbest arena with no cover thanks to NERF THIS

How long does it take for her to build up her ult?
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FFDragon posted...

It doesn't screw her any more than every other merc who has to build up to do their ultimate move.

She starts with full neon, she can do whatever she likes with that.

Just not the thing she has to build up to.

Yeah i forgot that mechanically she works a bit different than cole - who does in fact get ult ammo fron draining electricity - and even slightly different from Delsin.
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This all having been said, I think if X was here from the start things would be a bit clearer. But I don't know if Seph and Ifrit can HOLD THE LINE and come out in good enough condition for X to make a hero's entrance and save the day.
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She has to do a lot of damage first. In Overwatch matches, she never gets it in the first minute.

Also, I'm failing to see the cast times in those attacks in the videos I posted.

While true you generally arent in a position where D Va can really use most of her attacks to even start building meter right away in overwatch.

Not so here. She will build it faster than average in this setting.
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FFDragon posted...

This all having been said, I think if X was here from the start things would be a bit clearer. But I don't know if Seph and Ifrit can HOLD THE LINE and come out in good enough condition for X to make a hero's entrance and save the day.

There being nowhere to go does cut both ways especially since I have a pair of great melees and a pair of great "ranged"

a sword slash from the versus cain would be pretty devastating here but the fact that this thing has damn gatling gun in this kind of arena is prettyOP.
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In the specific 3vs3 mode in Overwatch, D.Va almost never gets her ult.

Yuna and Ifrit are going away nearly immediately, given the combo of D.Va and Elma just going full blast with machine gun fire. Yuna's not surviving that kind of hailstorm of bullets.

Also fun thing, Xenoblade X does have morale as a battle mechanic. Battles generally start at 0 Morale unless you came directly from another one, builds up based off of team-based attacks or activating special effects of attacks (like someone landing a debuff, getting a critical hit, toppling a staggered enemy, etc.). The higher it is, the more characters will call out attacks they need for you to follow up from them, and the more TP you gain when you do that (which is used for Overdrive/special moves). It only really pops up in protracted fights, or if you want to spam Overdrive to keep it active for more than like, 30 seconds at a time.

Another nice thing is Elma has a really strong buff on-foot as well. Ghost Factory, which makes it so her entire party gets the Decoy status for 30 to 70 seconds (depends on how long she waits to activate it, so in this case, almost definitely just 30 seconds). Decoy status makes the next 4 attacks that hit any of the characters with it miss, regardless of the type of attack. It's also one of Elma's two signature moves (unique to her), the other one being Shadowstrike (variation of Backslash), so it should be something she knows to use often.
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I have been waiting for you KJH!

I have read over that wiki a bunch of times and couldnt make sense of what a lot of those abils even did.

Ghost Factory sounds amazingly useful here.
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XBX's mechanics go waaaaaaaaaay too deep. Like, so much so that the online manual (not even a strategy guide that tells you how to use things, just the standard "what is it" manual) is 142 pages long.

https://goo.gl/KmvkS7

It's a bit excessive.
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Ghost Factory seems really good here.

Google is telling me that some powerful arts can bypass Decoy - can you elaborate on that?
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Would Elma even think to use buffs with the terror and the enemy starting right in front of her? And didn't you say Elma has to be on foot to use it? So she's either not in her skell or not using buffs.

Xenoblade is pretty fast paced from the videos ive seen so its not totally unreasonable to think Elma might pop off a buff.

Also i think the on foot stuff not being doable in a skell is probably as much "gameplay" as anything else but i do admit XCX lore is not my strong suit
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Yeah, some extra-effects of attacks don't get dodged by decoy (though the damage does). The main instance is stuff like this:

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Up1873-DEY4/maxresdefault.jpg

Where if a giant enemy stomps and physically touches you with it, your character will still get sent flying and knocked down (while taking 0 damage) instead of just clipping through the foot. After that, Decoy remains inactive until you get back on your feet, then starts auto-dodging damage again.

Decoy's also a focal point for one of the main endgame builds, where you keep overdrive active an entire fight and use the decreased cooldown to keep re-upping your Decoy faster than enemies can eat through it. If you look up any "infinite overdrive" fights on youtube, that's what almost all of them are doing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bXu5GUVhRU#t=1m28s

Like there's someone using it and still dodging through those same kind of enemies' stomps because he didn't put his character under them. Just nonstop MISS popping up in red because of decoy.

EDIT: Also, not saying Elma's gonna be an infinite overdrive character or anything, but just that Decoy's good and one of her signature moves with nice practical applications. She does have like 3 passives devoted to extending Overdrive, too, so the possibility of at least getting a few off is there.
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Has Sephiroth ever did the "Fill the room with AOE" thing

Hell, has he ever even defaulted to AOE attacks before? He seems much more like the "Must stabby-stabby" type, so I don't think "Seph fills the room with AOE" is a strategy even worth humoring
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He uses quite a lot of big AOE attacks against Sora in KH fights I don't see why he wouldn't use it liberally particularly in a teamfighting situations.
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for me it's about whether or not hasted x just kinda sweeps when he comes back in

can elma deal with him
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Tough fight this one. I guess you could also argue with the size of the room that Sephiroth's horizontal attacks are gonna be straight AoE anyway.

Especially with the other team being terrified at the start of the battle, Megaman definitely shows up before anyone on his teams gone down.

What kind of feats does Feltch have? Pretty unfamiliar with her. D.Va's massively outclassed here though.
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Also, just to show more XBX buffs in action, they even get used in cutscenes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwkYt21iMoI#t=0m32s

Nagi uses an Aura (self-buff) skill here, since those all get accompanied with the same glow when active. They trigger super quick.
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If that's true, then his KH showings kinda blatantly do not mesh with all his other showings.
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HeroicGammaRay posted...

for me it's about whether or not hasted x just kinda sweeps when he comes back in

can elma deal with him
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Worth noting X will have to actually CAST haste in a room thats not going to be very safe for it.


And frankly i think Elma can given the scale of the threats that she usually has to deal with and that in this environment most of her normal attacks are basically AoE.
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MenuWars posted...

Tough fight this one. I guess you could also argue with the size of the room that Sephiroth's horizontal attacks are gonna be straight AoE anyway.

Especially with the other team being terrified at the start of the battle, Megaman definitely shows up before anyone on his teams gone down.

What kind of feats does Feltch have? Pretty unfamiliar with her. D.Va's massively outclassed here though.

I have posted a few videos of what fetch does

She is basically a super hero - she falls from long distances tanks gunfire and tank shells, has a pretty decently quick healing factor and her offense is really fast since she moves as beams of neon. Not quite light speed but still very very fast.
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StealThisSheen posted...

If that's true, then his KH showings kinda blatantly do not mesh with all his other showings.

Not... exactly. In the Cloud flashback he tends to use a lot of -aga spells to clear out goons. His boss fights vs the party use a lot of spells too. He tends to use his sword exclusively more vs Cloud and Zack but I think that's out of a respect he has for them more than anything.
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StealThisSheen posted...

If that's true, then his KH showings kinda blatantly do not mesh with all his other showings.

Welcome to Kingdom hearts.
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Lopen posted...

In the Cloud flashback he tends to use a lot of -aga spells to clear out goons

I guess that's true
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Also KH kinda tends to stick with that narrative too. He tends to slashy slashy when he fights Cloud. Sora he just kinda styles all over the place-- Tifa gets disrespected too though he mostly kinda just ignores her more than tossing spells around.
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Im just saying in kingdom hearts squall cares about things and vivi is a heartless its not 100% lore consistent.
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I dunno, I think Sephiroth gets out-AoE'd here. Like, he's going to have to be casting -aga level spells at a faster rate than two gunner mechs + Fetch's neon projectiles. Even assuming really, really short cast times, that many attacks should break spell-casting focus really hard (and hurt him).
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Squall has always cared about things. The entire reason he's aloof is that he's scared of losing those he cares for. I'll give you Heartless Vivi tho.
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Havent actually played ff8 just going off the meme
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Hmmmm the Neon Singularity's pretty damn impressive, but slow and even she seems to be drawn into it albeit to a lesser extent so it's forces are resistable from a distance, but if she used it here I feel like D'Va and Fetch and Yuna (along with Ifrit too) Get one shotted. So can't see her doing that unless she goes Mental, and with the time it takes to go off, Megaman X would be showing up a few seconds after it finished going off. It would also ruin any potential ganks from Zeratul.

Xenoblade crew are impressive so that's a toss up between Seph versus Elma.

How tanky is Zeratul? I know he's good at eviscerating his targets, but can he take a hit?
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How tanky is Zeratul? I know he's good at eviscerating his targets, but can he take a hit?

Hard to say. In cutscenes, he only fights extremely powerful people (Kerrigan and Possessed Artanis) and both get strong hits on him IIRC that leave him wounded. In gameplay he has a massive psionic shield that defends him, which is totally absent in the cutscenes. So ????, really.
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MenuWars posted...

Hmmmm the Neon Singularity's pretty damn impressive, but slow and even she seems to be drawn into it albeit to a lesser extent so it's forces are resistable from a distance, but if she used it here I feel like D'Va and Fetch and Yuna (along with Ifrit too) Get one shotted. So can't see her doing that unless she goes Mental, and with the time it takes to go off, Megaman X would be showing up a few seconds after it finished going off. It would also ruin any potential ganks from Zeratul.

Xenoblade crew are impressive so that's a toss up between Seph versus Elma.

How tanky is Zeratul? I know he's good at eviscerating his targets, but can he take a hit?

Why would Fetch be OHKOing herself?

Regardless Zeratul goes one on one with protoss shit like Hydralisks iirc and wins. Not sure exactly how tanky he is tbh but i assume decently to handle that kinda stuff.

hes pretty great in melee. His great weakness is he doesnt have ranged options but the terrain has really done the work for him here. No one can run no one can hide.
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I'm not saying Sephiroth out aoes necessarily (though the demoralization probably helps him get a jump on that) just that him using spells is not out of character or a KHism. He's a spellsword in every sense -- his fighting style is a mix unless he has some pride thing going on in the fight. I don't think a teamfight situation is ever gonna have him doing that either unless he's like 1v2ing Cloud + Zack or something
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Eddv posted...

MenuWars posted...

Hmmmm the Neon Singularity's pretty damn impressive, but slow and even she seems to be drawn into it albeit to a lesser extent so it's forces are resistable from a distance, but if she used it here I feel like D'Va and Fetch and Yuna (along with Ifrit too) Get one shotted. So can't see her doing that unless she goes Mental, and with the time it takes to go off, Megaman X would be showing up a few seconds after it finished going off. It would also ruin any potential ganks from Zeratul.

Xenoblade crew are impressive so that's a toss up between Seph versus Elma.

How tanky is Zeratul? I know he's good at eviscerating his targets, but can he take a hit?

Why would Fetch be OHKOing herself?

Regardless Zeratul goes one on one with protoss shit like Hydralisks iirc and wins. Not sure exactly how tanky he is tbh but i assume decently to handle that kinda stuff.

hes pretty great in melee. His great weakness is he doesnt have ranged options but the terrain has really done the work for him here. No one can run no one can hide.

from the videos posted she doesn't seem particularly tanky, powerful yes, but I wouldn't say tanky enough to survive being in her own singularity, I'm not saying she one shots herself, I'm more saying I don't see the use of Singularity being feasible here as it's not particularly targeted and is indiscriminate in what it gobbles up. So her main show of strength is kind of eh in this confined space.

As for Zeratul good to know. I'll have to consider.
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MenuWars posted...

Eddv posted...

MenuWars posted...

Hmmmm the Neon Singularity's pretty damn impressive, but slow and even she seems to be drawn into it albeit to a lesser extent so it's forces are resistable from a distance, but if she used it here I feel like D'Va and Fetch and Yuna (along with Ifrit too) Get one shotted. So can't see her doing that unless she goes Mental, and with the time it takes to go off, Megaman X would be showing up a few seconds after it finished going off. It would also ruin any potential ganks from Zeratul.

Xenoblade crew are impressive so that's a toss up between Seph versus Elma.

How tanky is Zeratul? I know he's good at eviscerating his targets, but can he take a hit?

Why would Fetch be OHKOing herself?

Regardless Zeratul goes one on one with protoss shit like Hydralisks iirc and wins. Not sure exactly how tanky he is tbh but i assume decently to handle that kinda stuff.

hes pretty great in melee. His great weakness is he doesnt have ranged options but the terrain has really done the work for him here. No one can run no one can hide.

from the videos posted she doesn't seem particularly tanky, powerful yes, but I wouldn't say tanky enough to survive being in her own singularity, I'm not saying she one shots herself, I'm more saying I don't see the use of Singularity being feasible here as it's not particularly targeted and is indiscriminate in what it gobbles up. So her main show of strength is kind of eh in this confined space.

As for Zeratul good to know. I'll have to consider.

I actually wonder about that - how TALL is this room.

Is it actually enclosed?
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