Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Elma/Fox/W 100/Sorey/MM/Zeratul vs. Bayonetta/Vergil/ Dizzy/Flynn/Haseo

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HByGfz-NI6k

Regular speed Vergil ladies and gentlemen.
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Cool. Hes pretty fast. I even respect that in my argument.

Too bad there are 101 fucking Nova bombs homing on his teams position.
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If the wonderful 101 can traverse the airspace without crashing consistently they probably cannot lose. Terrain is important here as if they have say 1000 meters to fly 101 arwings... you are getting into heavy chances of collisions. And as you are saying they are carrying "nukes" that could be bad.
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Right, so you instantly nova bomb at the start with your entire team starting ten meters away from each other and everyone dies. GG no RE. Double KO
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Eddv posted...

Cool. Hes pretty fast. I even respect that in my argument.

Too bad there are 101 fucking Nova bombs homing on his teams position.

So your argument is that 101 arwings enter the map all with clear angles and paths directed straight at the enemy team and as ideal teammates try to kill the enemy and their own teammates?
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Clear angles what are you on.

Its a small forest grove.

My team knows what the plan is.

Theres really nothing complicated about "a team of 101 Arwings goes on a bombing run"
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I don't even see them needing their bombs can probably just mow by a bajillion lasers it's just sorta to illustrate how preposterous "can tank a couple of bombs" is in terms of relevancy given what the enemy fleet (it seems wrong to say team here) is packing
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Eddv posted...

Clear angles what are you on.

Its a small forest grove.

My team knows what the plan is.

Theres really nothing complicated about "a team of 101 Arwings goes on a bombing run"

I know it is hard to believe but 101 direct line of shots at one time from the onset is a bit difficult.

That said, you have repeatedly ignored the ideal teammate clause every time it has been brought up.
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Lopen posted...

I don't even see them needing their bombs can probably just mow by a bajillion lasers it's just sorta to illustrate how preposterous "can tank a couple of bombs" is in terms of relevancy given what the enemy fleet (it seems wrong to say team here) is packing

If a laser hits a tree what is the star fox effect? Does it shoot through it as nothing or does it cause the tree to explode, etc?
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Lopen posted...

I don't even see them needing their bombs can probably just mow by a bajillion lasers it's just sorta to illustrate how preposterous "can tank a couple of bombs" is in terms of relevancy given what the enemy fleet (it seems wrong to say team here) is packing

She tanked a nuke and lesser enemies have been seen to tank Nova bombs in SF than her. The power level between an Arwing and her is hysterical. Especially with double strength and speed, she's not going to just sit there after she gets hit and let them shoot.

...and double speed Vergil is just fucking absurd.
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What do you want out of me. If you dont buy the bombs then fine the lasers will do just as fine.

I feel like youre just completely underestimating the absurd advantage having 101 Arwings is. Just 4 of these things are a legendary squad that kills whole armies of highly advanced aliens.

I have 25x that many even if 100 of them are slippy tier.
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It's kinda like uh

In 300

Like those Spartans are really badass and all but lot of numbers there

Like it's not even unrealistic to argue that maybe like, 20-30 of the ships crash into each other and the falling ship wreckage kills everyone on the ground

It's just kind of a terrible terrain to win this fight I think.
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Well, I thought bayos team couldn't kill the airforce so probably lost in the end. But after I argued the arwings start in the air not 10 meters away due to the convenient starting spot disclaimer which would negate any blowing up shinanz. Kanz has made it known explicitly that every arwing starts ten meters away from the opposing team in a spot convenient to them from that distance.

Thus, every arwing crashes at the start. It is mathematically impossible for that starting position for the arwings which is why I thought the ideal starting spot disclaimer nullified that. However, Kanz is the administrator and his word is law thus.
Bayo and company
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Corrik posted...

Well, I thought bayos team couldn't kill the airforce so probably lost in the end. But after I argued the arwings start in the air not 10 meters away due to the convenient starting spot disclaimer which would negate any blowing up shinanz. Kanz has made it known explicitly that every arwing starts ten meters away from the opposing team in a spot convenient to them from that distance.

Thus, every arwing crashes at the start. It is mathematically impossible for that starting position for the arwings which is why I thought the ideal starting spot disclaimer nullified that. However, Kanz is the administrator and his word is law thus.
Bayo and company

What. Kanz said the exact opposite.

"There's at least some room. The terrain expands to fit all the Arwings as per the conventions, just to clarify this."
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StealThisSheen posted...

Corrik posted...

Well, I thought bayos team couldn't kill the airforce so probably lost in the end. But after I argued the arwings start in the air not 10 meters away due to the convenient starting spot disclaimer which would negate any blowing up shinanz. Kanz has made it known explicitly that every arwing starts ten meters away from the opposing team in a spot convenient to them from that distance.

Thus, every arwing crashes at the start. It is mathematically impossible for that starting position for the arwings which is why I thought the ideal starting spot disclaimer nullified that. However, Kanz is the administrator and his word is law thus.
Bayo and company

What. Kanz said the exact opposite.

"There's at least some room. The terrain expands to fit all the Arwings as per the conventions, just to clarify this."

Do u want the discord log?
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So he's giving a completely different ruling outside of the topic?
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Vergil at double speed and strength could probably cut a swathe through half them before they've even gripped their fucking control panels.
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Like what he is ruling is 100% impossible. The obvious ruling is the arwings can start at a convenient spot on the terrain on their team's side. However, he is dying on the hill that this convenient spot is 10 meters from the enemy team where they all can have lasers trained on the enemy team from the onset with clear line of sights.

It is an impossible scenario and thus makes the arwings have to crash cuz otherwise the other team cannot even argue his side because he is dealing with an impossible scenario to argue against.
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never give up trust your instincts
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StealThisSheen posted...

So he's giving a completely different ruling outside of the topic?

No Kanz said the exact same thing in discord as he did here; corrik as usual is just trying to stir shit up because well hes corrik. Its what he does.
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Eddv posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

So he's giving a completely different ruling outside of the topic?

No Kanz said the exact same thing in discord as he did here; corrik as usual is just trying to stir shit up because well hes corrik. Its what he does.

Literally screenshotted what he said. No idea what ur talking about
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What he said here and there is the same.

You think its different because i dont know why.
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10 meters away is just too close for the arwings to have the impact you desire I think. Especially considering Vergils sword swings are also projectiles, as are most of Bayo's attacks and the second dizzy gets inevitably hit you've gotta deal with that at double strength and speed.

Like under these circumstances, I'd take Vergil and Dizzy over a million Arwings never mind 100. If you had a big open terrain sure you demolish, but you're cramped in like sardines in a can against three absolute monsters.
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StealThisSheen posted...

So he's giving a completely different ruling outside of the topic?

What I said is that the terrain starts combatants at ten meters' distance from each other - then the Arwings the W100 have gained put them in the air and perform all appropriate modifications, which I interpret as putting all the Arwings at a distance of ten meters from the enemy team. To me this means either all the Arwings in a huge line (with the terrain tweaked to accomodate this) or all Arwings placed at a ten meter distance from the enemy team in three dimensions (meaning Arwings behind, in front, straight above, etc.). To me there isn't a conflict between 'nearest convenient spot' and the terrain starting points, but if there is one the Arwing writeup would have primacy because it's an effect that modifies the writeups beneficially. It's not a ruling.
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I don't buy the fact that they all suddenly crash because the rules in mercs say no insta death due to terrain. But they're not gonna be able to fight very efficiently at all.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

So he's giving a completely different ruling outside of the topic?

What I said is that the terrain starts combatants at ten meters' distance from each other - then the Arwings the W100 have gained put them in the air and perform all appropriate modifications, which I interpret as putting all the Arwings at a distance of ten meters from the enemy team. To me this means either all the Arwings in a huge line (with the terrain tweaked to accomodate this) or all Arwings placed at a ten meter distance from the enemy team in three dimensions (meaning Arwings behind, in front, straight above, etc.). To me there isn't a conflict between 'nearest convenient spot' and the terrain starting points, but if there is one the Arwing writeup would have primacy. It's not a ruling.

You cannot fit 100 arwings let alone 40 arwings in a 3d surround at 10 meters. It is mathematically impossible.
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Corrik posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

So he's giving a completely different ruling outside of the topic?

What I said is that the terrain starts combatants at ten meters' distance from each other - then the Arwings the W100 have gained put them in the air and perform all appropriate modifications, which I interpret as putting all the Arwings at a distance of ten meters from the enemy team. To me this means either all the Arwings in a huge line (with the terrain tweaked to accomodate this) or all Arwings placed at a ten meter distance from the enemy team in three dimensions (meaning Arwings behind, in front, straight above, etc.). To me there isn't a conflict between 'nearest convenient spot' and the terrain starting points, but if there is one the Arwing writeup would have primacy. It's not a ruling.

You cannot fit 100 arwings let alone 40 arwings in a 3d surround at 10 meters. It is mathematically impossible.

Mercs rules the terrain spreads out to allow whoever is there to fit. It doesn't make them able to maneuvre at peak capacity but it certainly enables them to spawn and not instantly die.
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You cannot fit 100 arwings let alone 40 arwings in a 3d surround at 10 meters. It is mathematically impossible.

Then the Arwings' writeup has primacy and they appear at 'the nearest convenient location'. This is an instance where either they CAN fit and then none of them die instantly, or they can't fit and thus the ability text overwrites the default.
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And also what kanz said is what i screenshotted. Word for word. He even made sure to imply I was not reading and used the word "explicitly" to enphasize the 10 meters. It is just a dumb ruling, and I will consider it a ruling because the common sense approach to it was put down like a 4 yr old suggested it and responded to "explicitly".
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

You cannot fit 100 arwings let alone 40 arwings in a 3d surround at 10 meters. It is mathematically impossible.

Then the Arwings' writeup has primacy and they appear at 'the nearest convenient location'. This is an instance where either they CAN fit and then none of them die instantly, or they can't fit and thus the ability text overwrites the default.

Which is what I said. They start in the air at a covenient location, and you argued "explicitly" was not the case.
no vote
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Yes, because I believe there's space. If you don't then they start wherever the closest possible convenient location is at. Please don't call my thoughts on a match 'a ruling', I will announce any such rulings myself.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Yes, because I believe there's space. If you don't then they start wherever the closest possible convenient location is at. Please don't call my thoughts on a match 'a ruling', I will announce any such rulings myself.

Then don't talk down to ppl for their interpretation.
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So what? I'm supposed to not be allowed to say 'this shit's dumb yo' if I think so? Come on now. >_>
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MenuWars posted...

I'd take Vergil and Dizzy over a million Arwings never mind 100.

Lmao i strongly disagree but with that sort of absurd overhype theres not much reason to keep engaging you; youre unconvincable.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

So what? I'm supposed to not be allowed to say 'this shit's dumb yo' if I think so? Come on now. >_>

You literally argued it was dumb in favor of a 3d surround at 10 meters argument and are now saying exactly what my interpretation was. The only thing dumb that was said was your explicit 10 meters comment.
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I can beat 10000 arwings by breaking Star Fox Adventures over my knee too
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(inconceivable)

...and yes that was hyperbole to show just how ineffective that group would be at deal with these foes at that range. They're fucked.
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I get where you're coming from Corrik the whole 10 meters away from each other is why I can't vote in favour of the Arwings but they DO all fit BECAUSE mercs magic. It doesn't always make sense.
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If only Vergil had more power id flip my vote

Like 20 seconds of DT close..=(
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Wonder Red is a natural leader, you constantly have generics entering your group that he commands pretty much perfectly. The nature of almost all their moves is team-based, and they all personally end up piloting their own mechs at the end too (and at that point, it's a team of 200 of them that Wonder Red's commanding, with them still using all of their Unite Morphs and other team moves).

Simply flying forward and shooting lasers is way beyond what the enemy team can take from 101 arwings, or if somehow they start losing arwings left and right by some miracle of the enemy team, even if 20 of them were left that's more than enough for an easy complete and total overkill via bombs + pulling up.
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greengravy294 posted...

If only Vergil had more power id flip my vote

Like 20 seconds of DT close..=(

15 seconds of double power double speed isn't enough for you then? Damn yo.
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5 seconds is everything when it comes to life or death
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I see it going as. Arwings dont fire at first due to melee fighting on top of each other due to ideal teammate. Arwings are crashing into each other a lot dropping exploded arwings below which are setting off bombs in their crashes and explosions. Bayo and Vergil are the only two below who could competently survive the arwing carnage. After bayos team mops up below and much of the damage in the air has subsided. It is about 10-15 arwings or less vs bayo and vergil. And they just pick em apart from the air eventually due to range. Not sure there is a true answer to all the airpower here.


However it is a great lesson on why in vietnam there wasn't 200 jets circling in the battlezone above dropping bombs and machine gun fire. It is a stupid as fuck strategy that is gonna friendly fire the fuck out of you and set your pilots up to crash.

Team Fox
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Corrik posted...

However it is a great lesson on why in vietnam there wasn't 200 jets circling in the battlezone above dropping bombs and machine gun fire. It is a stupid as fuck strategy that is gonna friendly fire the fuck out of you and set your pilots up to crash.

This is the best. I'm rolling.
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Lopen posted...

Corrik posted...

However it is a great lesson on why in vietnam there wasn't 200 jets circling in the battlezone above dropping bombs and machine gun fire. It is a stupid as fuck strategy that is gonna friendly fire the fuck out of you and set your pilots up to crash.

This is the best. I'm rolling.

Fives
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I mean in the video I posted he moves about 20 metres in an instant whilst cutting several things into pieces. That was without DT, and without double speed and strength buffs. This dude's now insane.

Unless the debuffer can actually see him she can't debuff him and he clearly moves at blink like speeds at regular speed. Nevermind double that.

That's why I can't vote against him this is broken as fuck.
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Vergil and Fox square off in outer space as he leaves thinking the day was won. Vergil tries to commandeer the ship, using dt in outer space but dies shortly before prying the cockpit open.
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MenuWars posted...

I mean in the video I posted he moves about 20 metres in an instant whilst cutting several things into pieces. That was without DT, and without double speed and strength buffs. This dude's now insane.

Unless the debuffer can actually see him she can't debuff him and he clearly moves at blink like speeds at regular speed. Nevermind double that.

That's why I can't vote against him this is broken as fuck.

Most mercs are insane.
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Unless I'm wrong the mercs can't leave the battlefield so nope.
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Sry headcanon
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