Poll of the Day > Vegan: I Refuse to eat anything that comes from a living creature

(+) Yeah! (+)

"But You Eat Plants! and plants are alive all around us!"

Vegan: It's not the same! if it can't act or respond to anything then it's not the same as eating a living breathing sentient creature

"Whatever"

how do you feel on this?
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I feel that the actual definition for a Vegan is "a person who does not eat or use animal products"

I heard in the soon to be release gtav for pc you can be a vegan
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SmokeMassTree posted...

I heard in the soon to be release gtav for pc you can be a vegan

So hyped for that game.
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Eh, whatever suits the person. So long as they don't lambaste me for eating said sentient-creature flesh.
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It's always struck me as hypocritical to act morally superior for deciding that some life is worth more than others. Being vegetarian because you don't want to support the factory farming livestock industry? That's fair, a lot of **** happens there that really isn't cool. Being a vegetarian because you find meat icky? Sure, you do you. Being a vegetarian because you've decided that a cow's life is worth more than a tomato's? No, screw you, and don't try to act morally superior for passing such an arbitrary judgement.
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Zangulus posted...

Except there are emerging studies showing plants do react and respond to stimuli applied to it.

Emerging? That's been known for centuries. How do you think Sunflowers face the sun if not by responding to stimuli?
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There are emerging studies that show Earth is in fact, not at the center of the universe.
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NightMareBunny posted...

how do you feel on this?

Their life, their choice and I feel indifferent about other peoples eating habits.
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It's not the same, and it's annoying when meat eaters try to paint it all with the same brush. The most annoying vegans and the most annoying meat eaters tend to be equally annoying. Everyone gets to draw the line where they most feel comfortable drawing it. There's nothing wrong with one person drawing their personal line at a different spot than another person. Pretending that killing a potato and killing a cow are equally horrific is ludicrous, though. I love meat, and I can still see how stupid that argument is.
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I despise they're fake meat and cheese bastardizations but other than that they're fine.
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Plants aren't creatures

adjl posted...

It's always struck me as hypocritical to act morally superior for deciding that some life is worth more than others. Being vegetarian because you don't want to support the factory farming livestock industry? That's fair, a lot of **** happens there that really isn't cool. Being a vegetarian because you find meat icky? Sure, you do you. Being a vegetarian because you've decided that a cow's life is worth more than a tomato's? No, screw you, and don't try to act morally superior for passing such an arbitrary judgement.

Seriously! Plants are cool and strangely aware of their surroundings!

Plants grow towards sunlight, grow faster with different kinds of music, can tell what kinds of other plants are growing near them, eat animals, and more!
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adjl posted...

It's always struck me as hypocritical to act morally superior for deciding that some life is worth more than others. Being vegetarian because you don't want to support the factory farming livestock industry? That's fair, a lot of **** happens there that really isn't cool. Being a vegetarian because you find meat icky? Sure, you do you. Being a vegetarian because you've decided that a cow's life is worth more than a tomato's? No, screw you, and don't try to act morally superior for passing such an arbitrary judgement.

Yeah but what do those animals eat? Feed that comes from plants. A lot more plants make up that pound of meat than the plants you need to eat on your own. So not only are you eating an animal that had to die, they had to eat a lot of those same plants. And there's a lot of environmental destruction to make crops to feed those animals.

A tomato is not the plant anyway. It's the fruit of one. You can keep harvesting those tomatoes.
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No one is truly vegan unless they go full on hermit/commune. Animal products are in damn near everything, and it would be exceedingly tough to avoid using any without making all of your own stuff.
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AlleRacing posted...

No one is truly vegan unless they go full on hermit/commune. Animal products are in damn near everything, and it would be exceedingly tough to avoid using any without making all of your own stuff.

It's not that hard to avoid them most of the time and with more people making that lifestyle choice more options become available.
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Even if plants are feeling or sentient, you have to kill far more plants to eat a meat inclusive diet than one free of animal products so it's basically a moot point. Plants die in the food chain. Animals don't have to. And if you do eat animals, you're contributing to much more plant death to feed your meat.

Meat is ok I just try to not have it every day.
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why do people care about vegans so much
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People have some serious small dick syndrome when it comes to vegans.

Out of nowhere, "FUCK VEGANS"
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Doctor Foxx posted...

A tomato is not the plant anyway. It's the fruit of one. You can keep harvesting those tomatoes.

...until the first frost, when the tomato plant withers and dies.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

A tomato is not the plant anyway. It's the fruit of one. You can keep harvesting those tomatoes.

...until the first frost, when the tomato plant withers and dies.

Yes and many other plants, cultivated or not, will meet that same fate each year in climates with winter. What is your point?

Tomatoes are a perennial in their native climate and don't necessarily die. There are also more and more greenhouses that grow year round and I imagine they don't let plants like that die.
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Doctor Foxx posted...

A tomato is not the plant anyway. It's the fruit of one. You can keep harvesting those tomatoes.

...until the first frost, when the tomato plant withers and dies.

Yes and many other plants, cultivated or not, will meet that same fate each year in climates with winter. What is your point?

Tomatoes are a perennial in their native climate and don't necessarily die. There are also more and more greenhouses that grow year round and I imagine they don't let plants like that die.

It'll be awkward as hell when the cops bust a basement hydro op, and find nothing but tomatoes and various legumes.

Questionmarktarius posted...

It'll be awkward as hell when the cops bust a basement hydro op, and find nothing but tomatoes and various legumes.

Like this?

http://www.kctv5.com/story/23951053/leawood-family-seeks-7-million-for-swat-style

There are big commercial greenhouses that operate year round. There's one in my home city and we have winter weather around 8 months of the year. Always fresh produce. I'm excited for more operations like that and I'll leave the hydro growing to them
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Vegans have no problems wearing clotes made out of dead animals. lol

Nikra posted...

Vegans have no problems wearing clotes made out of dead animals. lol

What vegans do you know? They don't wear leather or wool things.
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Plants do react to stimulus sometimes though, something with a basic nervous system like a cricket or a worm isn't that much higher up in terms of development, honestly. Not to mention that everything basically has living bacteria cultures on it all the time... It's a weird self-imposed punishment. I know some cool people that are vegans (part of what makes them cool is that I didn't even know for ages until food discussions naturally ended up revealing it). From an appreciation of animals perspective, I respect it. I couldn't live without animal products though, but try my best to buy stuff that's ethical. I'm okay with something dying to feed me, I just don't want it to be mistreated. Its life is already bad enough being raised for slaughter, let it enjoy what time it has.

I'm proud of McDonald's for moving away from eggs laid by those battery hens. The amount that they use is enough to force farmers to convert (many already have or are doing so). Chickens easily get it the worst, and if I were to ever cut something out for moral reasons, it'd be that. Cruelty is always unnecessary. I help with wildlife rehabilitation, so I'm obviously not inclined to tolerate it. All the girls I work with there are vegans, pretty much.
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NightMareBunny posted...

Vegan: It's not the same! if it can't act or respond to anything then it's not the same as eating a living breathing sentient creature

So you like to prey on the weak and helpless. Living things that most of the time can't defend themselves in anyway. (This statement is directed at Vegans, not the creator of the topic.)
Then there is the probability that if every person in the world went Vegan we would have to use all the land that these other animals live and eat on, to grow food that humans can even eat. So in the end we would have to kill them all to be able to eat food that isn't from an animal.

adjl posted...

Being a vegetarian because you've decided that a cow's life is worth more than a tomato's? No, screw you, and don't try to act morally superior for passing such an arbitrary judgement.

dude what the fuck, this is one of the dumbest things youve ever said
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DirtBasedSoap posted...

adjl posted...

Being a vegetarian because you've decided that a cow's life is worth more than a tomato's? No, screw you, and don't try to act morally superior for passing such an arbitrary judgement.

dude what the fuck, this is one of the dumbest things youve ever said

Well, I dunno. This may be mathematically correct.
Hamburger is close to $4 a pound, while tomatoes are about $2.

I'd say a cow is worth about twice as much as a tomato, by mass anyway.

Playsaver posted...

NightMareBunny posted...

Vegan: It's not the same! if it can't act or respond to anything then it's not the same as eating a living breathing sentient creature

So you like to prey on the weak and helpless. Living things that most of the time can't defend themselves in anyway. (This statement is directed at Vegans, not the creator of the topic.)
Then there is the probability that if every person in the world went Vegan we would have to use all the land that these other animals live and eat on, to grow food that humans can even eat. So in the end we would have to kill them all to be able to eat food that isn't from an animal.

That's not really true. Livestock require land for grazing and for their feed production. It's leading to great environmental destruction to keep up with the demand of meat eaters.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/04/veganism-could-save-world-new-study-argues

http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20160926-what-would-happen-if-the-world-suddenly-went-vegetarian

More vertical farming efficiency will greatly help with this issue. Meat requires more land used for agriculture.

The BBC article discussing the ramifications for impoverished nations really does need to be taken into account. That's a serious concern. As is the greenhouse gas emission situation for continuing on a meat heavy diet--in time the climate change from that agriculture will also lead to further poverty, mass migration, agricultural collapse, and mass deaths. Something has to change. Purely vegan may not be the way to go, but meat consumption really does need to be curbed for the benefit of the planet.
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Golden Road posted...

Pretending that killing a potato and killing a cow are equally horrific is ludicrous, though. I love meat, and I can still see how stupid that argument is.

They are equally horrific since there is nothing wrong with either.
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How dare you say plants are not sentient!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8IpyLLdbpQ
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I think vegans who do it because they don't like how animals are treated are great. I know I couldn't do it. I like meat too much and I can't afford to go with the free range version every time I want meat.

Then again I wish I could just eat vegtables even as a side. I have tried. I can't do it. I can eat corn and potatoes. And apples, but apples with leave me with really bad gas.
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The irony for me is that animals contribute nothing, they just take up space and use resources like we do. Plants are actually productive for the planet, and vegans are trying to wipe them out.
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Aggrobiscuit posted...

The irony for me is that animals contribute nothing, they just take up space and use resources like we do. Plants are actually productive for the planet, and vegans are trying to wipe them out.

If the animals weren't being raised for meat they just wouldn't exist and could not take up that space. And they take up a lot more space and use far more resources than crops do. Similarly, raising plants for consumption is not the same as removing plants from the planet: that's something done at an alarming rate to clear cut for animal pasture and feed crops.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_meat_production

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2010/september/farmland-cutting-forests-090210.html
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Doctor Foxx posted...

Aggrobiscuit posted...

The irony for me is that animals contribute nothing, they just take up space and use resources like we do. Plants are actually productive for the planet, and vegans are trying to wipe them out.

If the animals weren't being raised for meat they just wouldn't exist and could not take up that space. And they take up a lot more space and use far more resources than crops do. Similarly, raising plants for consumption is not the same as removing plants from the planet: that's something done at an alarming rate to clear cut for animal pasture and feed crops.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_meat_production

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2010/september/farmland-cutting-forests-090210.html

Sorry kinda in a hurry. Don't have time to read that.
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Aggrobiscuit posted...

Sorry kinda in a hurry. Don't have time to read that.

tl;dr version:
Cows would be extinct outside of India, if we didn't eat them.
Also we'd clear-cut rainforests anyway, for tomatoes.

Doctor Foxx posted...

If the animals weren't being raised for meat they just wouldn't exist and could not take up that space. And they take up a lot more space and use far more resources than crops do. Similarly, raising plants for consumption is not the same as removing plants from the planet: that's something done at an alarming rate to clear cut for animal pasture and feed crops.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_meat_production

Yes. People totally raise lions and gorillas for meat.
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Revelation34 posted...

Yes. People totally raise lions and gorillas for meat.

They'd be far less endangered if we did.

Revelation34 posted...

Yes. People totally raise lions and gorillas for meat.

Who was talking about lions and gorillas? If you want clarification my remark was about animals humans raise as livestock. Since this is a topic about eating meat...

If you want to talk lions and gorillas, animals in their natural habitats contribute to natural ecological cycles. Their waste feeds plants. They live, they influence their ecosystem, and in time return to the earth and nourish plants that will potentially nourish more animals. They do not just take up space. Plants and animals need each other.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/Biology/enercyc.html

In a human related way lions and gorillas are both killed for meat and other things as well. That's just poaching.

And given enough time without oversight they will cease to exist.
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adjl posted...

It's always struck me as hypocritical to act morally superior for deciding that some life is worth more than others. Being vegetarian because you don't want to support the factory farming livestock industry? That's fair, a lot of **** happens there that really isn't cool. Being a vegetarian because you find meat icky? Sure, you do you. Being a vegetarian because you've decided that a cow's life is worth more than a tomato's? No, screw you, and don't try to act morally superior for passing such an arbitrary judgement.

do people actually believe something this stupid, or are they just that addicted to meat
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green dragon posted...

Plants aren't creatures

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2E9kBc7xG0
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