Current Events > Currently arguing with this girl of babies can go vegan successfully

(+) Yeah! (+)

She saying no (outside of breast milk)

While I'm saying, it's probably a bad idea given how easy it is to fuck up that kinda diet nutrient wise but it's totally possible with out using breast milk.
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There have been cases where children have been taken away from parents who tried to force veganism on an infant. There have been other cases of parents who have been taken to court because their infant died.

If it is not medically necessary and you attempt to force an infant to be vegan you deserve a swift kick to the privates and a punch to the face.
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NES4EVER posted...

There have been cases where children have been taken away from parents who tried to force veganism on an infant. There have been other cases of parents who have been taken to court because their infant died.

If it is not medically necessary and you attempt to force an infant to be vegan you deserve a swift kick to the privates and a punch to the face.

This.
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That's almost as dumb as trying to force a dog or cat to be vegan

i had no idea vegans were against breastfeeding

i get that people can be considered animals but since they would be the ones affected by it wouldnt they be able to say its not harmful to themselves or whatever lol
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Isn't breast milk vegan though? I thought it was dairy products from animals, I never read humans and animals as part of being vegan.
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Well, you should probably apologize to that girl, because you are super fucking wrong.
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Haven't babies literally died from being put on a vegan diet
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I would imagine it's possible, but I would not recommend it.

Personally I would raise my baby in accordance to established medicine and advice from knowledgeable parents during the earliest years, even if that meant going against my principles for a while.

To me the baby's welfare > principles that can be reintroduced later.
I understand valuing opportunities to prove one's agenda, but I would never exploit my child's health as one.
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isn't all baby food vegan anyway? i've never seen meat-based baby foods. also couldn't you just feed your baby soylent?
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No one is gonna tackle my question? What's more natural than human breast milk? How isn't it vegan? Surely you can't call it "Dairy".
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LysistrataMedea posted...

isn't all baby food vegan anyway? i've never seen meat-based baby foods. also couldn't you just feed your baby soylent?

Vegetarians don't eat meat. Vegans don't eat anything that comes from an animal which includes foods such as meat, eggs, and milk.
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MabusIncarnate posted...

No one is gonna tackle my question? What's more natural than human breast milk? How isn't it vegan? Surely you can't call it "Dairy".

Because it's an animal product.

Tmaster148 posted...

LysistrataMedea posted...

isn't all baby food vegan anyway? i've never seen meat-based baby foods. also couldn't you just feed your baby soylent?

Vegetarians don't eat meat. Vegans don't eat anything that comes from an animal which includes foods such as meat, eggs, and milk.

so all babyfood is made from animal byproducts? also again, i don't see why soylent wouldn't be baby friendly, but i guess it might not be
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JE19426 posted...

MabusIncarnate posted...

No one is gonna tackle my question? What's more natural than human breast milk? How isn't it vegan? Surely you can't call it "Dairy".

Because it's an animal product.

You can call a human whatever you want, but the entire premise of vegan is as natural and pure as possible. It develops in the same body that produces what you are calling an "animal product" which makes no sense whatsoever.
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Consent is a big part of ethical veganism, so breast milk is fine so long as the mother is consenting to give it (again, this doesn't apply to all types of veganism).
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Nevermind, decided to google it and every source I clicked determined it is vegan.

"When you think about it, the answer is quite simple. Anything that comes from an animal with consent and without any external force is vegan. As long as the animal is not forced to give something up and does so willingly, that would be vegetarian. And that is why human breast milk is also vegan, as the mother willingly decides to give something of her own body to her child."
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LysistrataMedea posted...

Tmaster148 posted...

LysistrataMedea posted...

isn't all baby food vegan anyway? i've never seen meat-based baby foods. also couldn't you just feed your baby soylent?

Vegetarians don't eat meat. Vegans don't eat anything that comes from an animal which includes foods such as meat, eggs, and milk.

so all babyfood is made from animal byproducts? also again, i don't see why soylent wouldn't be baby friendly, but i guess it might not be

I don't actually know what goes into babyfood. I was just pointing out that Vegan is more than just not eating meat.
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MabusIncarnate posted...

You can call a human whatever you want, but the entire premise of vegan is as natural and pure as possible.

No it's not. How is eating meat any less natural or pure than eating onions?

JE19426 posted...

MabusIncarnate posted...

You can call a human whatever you want, but the entire premise of vegan is as natural and pure as possible.

No it's not. How is eating meat any less natural or pure than eating onions?

Well, for one, onions don't have nerve endings, and the requirement of getting meat is killing, skinning, and butchering an animal. There's a slight difference there compared to pulling an onion out of dirt.
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MabusIncarnate posted...

Well, for one, onions don't have nerve endings, and the requirement of getting meat is killing, skinning, and butchering an animal. There's a slight difference there compared to pulling an onion out of dirt.

Really. You don't skin, kill and butcher onions? How do you eat them?

Wouldn't formula count as an animal byproduct? Wouldn't be allowed.
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JE19426 posted...

MabusIncarnate posted...

Well, for one, onions don't have nerve endings, and the requirement of getting meat is killing, skinning, and butchering an animal. There's a slight difference there compared to pulling an onion out of dirt.

Really. You don't skin, kill and butcher onions? How do you eat them?

God I hope you are just trying to troll me right now.

An animal, stay with me here, is a living, breathing, thing that feels pain, has a brain and a circulatory system. An onion is a fucking plant.

Dog? Broccoli. Which one makes more sense for you to eat? Which one will you feel less bad about eating? I'll give you a knife and let you decide which one you want to cut into, and tell me they are the same.
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MabusIncarnate posted...

An animal, stay with me here, is a living, breathing, thing that feels pain, has a brain and a circulatory system. An onion is a fucking plant.

Dog? Broccoli. Which one makes more sense for you to eat? Which one will you feel less bad about eating? I'll give you a knife and let you decide which one you want to cut into, and tell me they are the same.

So how does that make eating one more nature than the other?

JE19426 posted...

MabusIncarnate posted...

An animal, stay with me here, is a living, breathing, thing that feels pain, has a brain and a circulatory system. An onion is a fucking plant.

Dog? Broccoli. Which one makes more sense for you to eat? Which one will you feel less bad about eating? I'll give you a knife and let you decide which one you want to cut into, and tell me they are the same.

So how does that make eating one more nature than the other?

If you go by vegan rules, an animal doesn't volunteer it's life to you, therefore it's unnatural to butcher it against it's will and eat it. An onion, incapable of thought, that comes from the earth, is unable to voluntarily offer itself or not offer itself because it's a mindless fucking onion.

I'm not replying to you anymore because I feel myself getting stupider.
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MabusIncarnate posted...

If you go by vegan rules, an animal doesn't volunteer it's life to you, therefore it's unnatural to butcher it against it's will and eat it. An onion, incapable of thought, that comes from the earth, is unable to voluntarily offer itself or not offer itself because it's a mindless fucking onion.

That makes zero sense. If eating meat is unnatural because it didn't volunteer then how is eating onion natural even though it also didn't volunteer?

Eating meat is extremely natural. You can not agree with it all you want, but it's natural.
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MabusIncarnate posted...

Dog? Broccoli. Which one makes more sense for you to eat?

If I'm in a situation where I'm starving, which do I have on hand right at that second? That one.
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Wasn't there a study that proved that plants actually react to getting harvested?
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Chicken posted...

Wasn't there a study that proved that plants actually react to getting harvested?

Even if that's true, it's still highly unlikely that plants feel pain in any way we'd understand. Much like crabs or insects.
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Crazyman93 posted...

Even if that's true, it's still highly unlikely that plants feel pain in any way we'd understand. Much like crabs or insects.

So is it Vegan to eat Crab and insects?

JE19426 posted...

Crazyman93 posted...

Even if that's true, it's still highly unlikely that plants feel pain in any way we'd understand. Much like crabs or insects.

So is it Vegan to eat Crab and insects?

Fuck if I know, I'm not vegan. All I know is it's not Kosher, Halal, or in accordance to Leviticus.
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MabusIncarnate posted...

JE19426 posted...

MabusIncarnate posted...

You can call a human whatever you want, but the entire premise of vegan is as natural and pure as possible.

No it's not. How is eating meat any less natural or pure than eating onions?

Well, for one, onions don't have nerve endings, and the requirement of getting meat is killing, skinning, and butchering an animal. There's a slight difference there compared to pulling an onion out of dirt.

That doesn't answer the question. It doesn't explain how killing and eating an animal is less natural or pure than eating an onion. What does an onion not having nerve endings have to do with nature or purity? Eating meat is totally natural for many animals. Including humans.
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Guys, why is killing a person worse than killing a carrot?

Crazyman93 posted...

Chicken posted...

Wasn't there a study that proved that plants actually react to getting harvested?

Even if that's true, it's still highly unlikely that plants feel pain in any way we'd understand. Much like crabs or insects.

That's an important distinction - "in any way we'd understand". It completely depends on how we define pain. Because we know for sure that plants react to injury. Now, I'm perfectly sympathetic with veganism, however I think it's also important to not forget that we are humans. It's quite necessary to value ourselves more highly than other animals.
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Why is that most vegans are fucking morons?
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knutjob posted...

Guys, why is killing a person worse than killing a carrot?

You might want to make a new topic about that.

Counundrum posted...

Why is that most vegans are fucking morons?

Most might lack the scientific background.

Infants need lots of fat and cholesterol from their diet at this stage. By forcing veganism to an infant you are practically denying the infant of two essential building blocks at the most crucial time.
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3_1_1_FTW posted...

Counundrum posted...

Why is that most vegans are fucking morons?

Most might lack the scientific background.

Infants need lots of fat and cholesterol from their diet at this stage. By forcing veganism to an infant you are practically denying the infant of two essential building blocks at the most crucial time.

These same people are likely anti-vaxxers.

Don't expect much from them in terms of thinking things through.
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chrono625 posted...

3_1_1_FTW posted...

Counundrum posted...

Why is that most vegans are fucking morons?

Most might lack the scientific background.

Infants need lots of fat and cholesterol from their diet at this stage. By forcing veganism to an infant you are practically denying the infant of two essential building blocks at the most crucial time.

These same people are likely anti-vaxxers.

Don't expect much from them in terms of thinking things through.

To be fair, the science behind vaccines is a lot clearer than the science behind vegan vs meat diets.
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Technically, plants do have a rudimentary stimulus response process that could be interpreted as a plant equivalent to thought. They avoid negative stimulus by turning and even rerouting themselves away from whatever caused harm. Ever seen an oddly shaped plant? Something likely caused harm to it, and it grew in an odd shape to attempt to avoid it.
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MabusIncarnate posted...

JE19426 posted...

MabusIncarnate posted...

No one is gonna tackle my question? What's more natural than human breast milk? How isn't it vegan? Surely you can't call it "Dairy".

Because it's an animal product.

You can call a human whatever you want, but the entire premise of vegan is as natural and pure as possible. It develops in the same body that produces what you are calling an "animal product" which makes no sense whatsoever.

That's not what veganism is

There's nothing wrong with raising a baby vegan as long as you discuss it with your doctor and make sure your breast milk (varies from person to person) is provided the proper nutrients. If it's not, you'll have to supplement appropriately, which may or may not require breaking the diet.

Also babies shouldn't be eating eggs anyway, it's a common allergy. You're supposed to wait until they're at least a year
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There are some basic traps to fall into if you're looking to feed your baby vegan food, such as iron deficiencies, vitamin B12, vitamin D, and calorie intake. Vegan food can be pretty filling without a lot of calories, so there's a risk that babies who get full still didn't get all the nutrients they need.
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Anyone who forces veganism on their children shouldn't be a parent.
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CE is the place where we discuss whether breast milk is vegan.
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vegan baby diet is theoretically possible but stupid. babies need lots of protein and fat. plants usually have very little of both. And unless you've got a pretty good biological understanding, you won't know which plants have which essential amino acids to make sure the baby is getting all of them.
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If you're going to try to force a baby to be vegan, might as well just feed it a diet of peanut butter, eggs, and shellfish. If you're dumb enough to accidentally kill a baby with food, you might as well try to natural selection the shit out of it from the get-go.
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marthsheretoo posted...

Consent is a big part of ethical veganism, so breast milk is fine so long as the mother is consenting to give it (again, this doesn't apply to all types of veganism).

But dairy cows actually want to get milked. Hell if a dairy cow doesn't get milked regularly, it can develop infections in the udder.
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