Current Events > McEnroe: "Serena Williams would be '700 in the world' on men's tour"

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/jun/26/serena-williams-would-be-700-in-the-world-on-mens-tour-says-mcenroe

Why has this been causing such uproar when there is probably some truth behind it.

In mens tennis there is no way she is in the top 10.

From what i heard low rank pros could probably beat her and even college players can too. Its just physical differences and the reason why sports are seperated by the genders.

Because if all was made equal, no split gender leagues and everything was based on athleticism and talent then very few....if any, women would make it to a pro level.

hasn't she lost to people ranked around there?

EDIT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)#1998:_Karsten_Braasch_vs._the_Williams_sisters
it wasn't 700, but she lost to a guy ranked 203 very badly, and he claimed he was holding back so that he was playing about a rank 600 level.
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Lol McEnroe also blamed Andy Warhol for ruining his sex life

Lmao the speed of the balls they hit alone pretty much singlehandedly proves why women can't compete against men in Tennis.
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Axiom posted...

Lol McEnroe also blamed Andy Warhol for ruining his sex life

Warhol ruined a lot of sex lives.
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Its true whats the problemm?

Remember that time thr womens usa world champion soccer team lost to the usa boys under 16 team...yea...
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lilORANG posted...

hasn't she lost to people ranked around there?

I don't think it was someone quite ranked that low, but it was still a pretty low ranked person.
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Omega Hunter posted...

Its true whats the problemm?

Remember that time thr womens usa world champion soccer team lost to the usa boys under 16 team...yea...

When did this happen? You have a link?
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He's not wrong.
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TommyG663513 posted...

Omega Hunter posted...

Its true whats the problemm?

Remember that time thr womens usa world champion soccer team lost to the usa boys under 16 team...yea...

When did this happen? You have a link?

http://usatodayhss.com/2017/the-fc-dallas-u-15-academy-team-beat-the-u-s-women-s-national-team-5-2

the lady teams regularly play mens teams to practice. When they play college teams they lose by hilarious numbers.
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DrizztLink posted...

Axiom posted...

Lol McEnroe also blamed Andy Warhol for ruining his sex life

Warhol ruined a lot of sex lives.

Heh I'm kind of tempted to read his book. It's probably pretty entertaining

TommyG663513 posted...

Omega Hunter posted...

Its true whats the problemm?

Remember that time thr womens usa world champion soccer team lost to the usa boys under 16 team...yea...

When did this happen? You have a link?

I'm pretty sure he's confusing them with the Australian team.
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men's tennis is completely in another league compared to women's
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He's not wrong.
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lilORANG posted...

hasn't she lost to people ranked around there?

EDIT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)#1998:_Karsten_Braasch_vs._the_Williams_sisters
it wasn't 700, but she lost to a guy ranked 203 very badly, and he claimed he was holding back so that he was playing about a rank 600 level.

She was like 18. Serena in her prime would probably have done a lot better
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NinjaWarrior455 posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

Omega Hunter posted...

Its true whats the problemm?

Remember that time thr womens usa world champion soccer team lost to the usa boys under 16 team...yea...

When did this happen? You have a link?

I'm pretty sure he's confusing them with the Australian team.

Nah, the US women's team regularly loses to JV teams. I don't see the problem here, the more lean and muscular sex is surprise the better athlete
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lilORANG posted...

hasn't she lost to people ranked around there?

EDIT: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Sexes_(tennis)#1998:_Karsten_Braasch_vs._the_Williams_sisters
it wasn't 700, but she lost to a guy ranked 203 very badly, and he claimed he was holding back so that he was playing about a rank 600 level.

Keep in mind they were in their prime too.
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NinjaWarrior455 posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

Omega Hunter posted...

Its true whats the problemm?

Remember that time thr womens usa world champion soccer team lost to the usa boys under 16 team...yea...

When did this happen? You have a link?

I'm pretty sure he's confusing them with the Australian team.

http://usatodayhss.com/2017/the-fc-dallas-u-15-academy-team-beat-the-u-s-women-s-national-team-5-2
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my question is 'why did he bring this up'

it is widely understood among actual tennis fans of both genders, and a subject of much wailing and gnashing of teeth by non-fans looking for something stupid to tweet about

there's no reason or benefit to talk about it. nobody is claiming she'd do well among mens' leagues (except the morons who feel the need to get upset over his comments)
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Isn't she basically a man anyway?
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Darkman124 posted...

my question is 'why did he bring this up'

it is widely understood among actual tennis fans of both genders, and a subject of much wailing and gnashing of teeth by non-fans looking for something stupid to tweet about

there's no reason or benefit to talk about it. nobody is claiming she'd do well among mens' leagues (except the morons who feel the need to get upset over his comments)

He said this because the NPR interviewer got on his case when he qualified her as being the best "female" tennis player. This was a fairly stupid line of questioning designed to sound politically correct, and I'm not surprised the clickbait articles ignore this context leading up to it. Here is the interview exchange.

Garcia-Navarro: We're talking about male players but there is of course wonderful female players. Let's talk about Serena Williams. You say she is the best female player in the world in the book.

McEnroe: Best female player ever — no question.

Garcia-Navarro: Some wouldn't qualify it, some would say she's the best player in the world. Why qualify it?

McEnroe: Oh! Uh, she's not, you mean, the best player in the world, period?

Garcia-Navarro: Yeah, the best tennis player in the world. You know, why say female player?

McEnroe: Well because if she was in, if she played the men's circuit she'd be like 700 in the world.

http://www.npr.org/2017/06/25/534149646/but-seriously-tennis-great-john-mcenroe-says-hes-seeking-inner-peace
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Terra-enforcer posted...

Isn't she basically a man anyway?

...no?

But McEnroe is correct.
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He's right, but it's a pointless statement. She's still the most dominant tennis player of all time.
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the interviewer was bullshit and had an agenda.

she asked how great he thought Serena was and he said shes the greatest women's tennis player.

then the interviewer pressed "why do you have to classify it"

So he explained.

Keep in mine Serena herself already admitted as much on Letterman.
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CableZL posted...

He's right, but it's a pointless statement. She's still the most dominant female tennis player of all time.

If you agree the men and women are a class apart then you agree the most dominant players of each need to be distinguished as such.
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shouldn't be controversial, and blame the interviewer for baiting this story btw. She's still probably the goat tennis player
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WhinyZach posted...

Some people just don't understand that men dominate in athletics, and the top tier of female athletes couldn't even play semi pro mens leagues.

You can call her the most dominant female tennis player, but I mean she's blatantly on PED's so really it's nothing impressive.

lol stfu
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WhinyZach posted...

Some people just don't understand that men dominate in athletics, and the top tier of female athletes couldn't even play semi pro mens leagues.

You can call her the most dominant female tennis player, but I mean she's blatantly on PED's so really it's nothing impressive.

You mean like every star athlete
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voldothegr8 posted...

CableZL posted...

He's right, but it's a pointless statement. She's still the most dominant female tennis player of all time.

If you agree the men and women are a class apart then you agree the most dominant players of each need to be distinguished as such.

Not necessarily, since men and women don't play against each other professionally unless it's mixed doubles. No one dominated against their competition like Serena Williams.
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CableZL posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

CableZL posted...

He's right, but it's a pointless statement. She's still the most dominant female tennis player of all time.

If you agree the men and women are a class apart then you agree the most dominant players of each need to be distinguished as such.

Not necessarily, since men and women don't play against each other professionally unless it's mixed doubles. No one dominated against their competition like Serena Williams.

Nobody dominated female college basketball like UConn, does that make them better than all the mens teams?
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voldothegr8 posted...

CableZL posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

CableZL posted...

He's right, but it's a pointless statement. She's still the most dominant female tennis player of all time.

If you agree the men and women are a class apart then you agree the most dominant players of each need to be distinguished as such.

Not necessarily, since men and women don't play against each other professionally unless it's mixed doubles. No one dominated against their competition like Serena Williams.

Nobody dominated female college basketball like UConn, does that make them better than all the mens teams?

No, but it does make them the most dominant team.
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CableZL posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

CableZL posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

CableZL posted...

He's right, but it's a pointless statement. She's still the most dominant female tennis player of all time.

If you agree the men and women are a class apart then you agree the most dominant players of each need to be distinguished as such.

Not necessarily, since men and women don't play against each other professionally unless it's mixed doubles. No one dominated against their competition like Serena Williams.

Nobody dominated female college basketball like UConn, does that make them better than all the mens teams?

No, but it does make them the most dominant team.

Of female college basketball.
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WhinyZach posted...

Some people just don't understand that men dominate in athletics, and the top tier of female athletes couldn't even play semi pro mens leagues.

Eh, this varies with the sport, depending on how relevant strength/mass is and how much the sport's equipment helps to compensate. Target shooting, for example, can actually favor women (a bit of googling suggests women are more accurate but men can shoot faster).

For a sport where there's definitely a bias towards males but where it's small enough to let the top females be competitive with the pros, look at bowling. Three women have made TV appearances on the PBA and one has actually won a PBA title. It's also fairly common to see the top females cashing in PBA events.
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voldothegr8 posted...

CableZL posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

CableZL posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

CableZL posted...

He's right, but it's a pointless statement. She's still the most dominant female tennis player of all time.

If you agree the men and women are a class apart then you agree the most dominant players of each need to be distinguished as such.

Not necessarily, since men and women don't play against each other professionally unless it's mixed doubles. No one dominated against their competition like Serena Williams.

Nobody dominated female college basketball like UConn, does that make them better than all the mens teams?

No, but it does make them the most dominant team.

Of female college basketball.

Of college basketball in general since no one dominated their competition like they did.

If no one dominated like person or team A, then person or team A is the most dominant.
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CableZL posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

CableZL posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

CableZL posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

CableZL posted...

He's right, but it's a pointless statement. She's still the most dominant female tennis player of all time.

If you agree the men and women are a class apart then you agree the most dominant players of each need to be distinguished as such.

Not necessarily, since men and women don't play against each other professionally unless it's mixed doubles. No one dominated against their competition like Serena Williams.

Nobody dominated female college basketball like UConn, does that make them better than all the mens teams?

No, but it does make them the most dominant team.

Of female college basketball.

Of college basketball in general since no one dominated their competition like they did.

If no one dominated like person or team A, then person or team A is the most dominant.

By that logic I'm the most dominant mma fighter because I regularly deck my 8 year old nephew when he tries to blind side me.
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CableZL posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

CableZL posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

CableZL posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

CableZL posted...

He's right, but it's a pointless statement. She's still the most dominant female tennis player of all time.

If you agree the men and women are a class apart then you agree the most dominant players of each need to be distinguished as such.

Not necessarily, since men and women don't play against each other professionally unless it's mixed doubles. No one dominated against their competition like Serena Williams.

Nobody dominated female college basketball like UConn, does that make them better than all the mens teams?

No, but it does make them the most dominant team.

Of female college basketball.

Of college basketball in general since no one dominated their competition like they did.

If no one dominated like person or team A, then person or team A is the most dominant.

But how can they be the most dominant in all of basketball or all of tennis when it's universally agreed a division 3 mens team would crush UConn or a middling mens tennis player would crush the Williams sisters?

By that logic I'm the most dominant mma fighter because I regularly deck my 8 year old nephew when he tries to blind side me.

Also this
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lilORANG posted...

By that logic I'm the most dominant mma fighter because I regularly deck my 8 year old nephew when he tries to blind side me.

That's a terrible analogy. Serena Williams wasn't out there playing against 8 year olds and neither was UConn.
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voldothegr8 posted...

But how can they be the most dominant in all of basketball or all of tennis when it's universally agreed a division 3 mens team would crush UConn or a middling mens tennis player would crush the Williams sisters?

"Most dominant" doesn't mean UConn would beat a men's college basketball team, nor does it mean Serena Williams would beat a male tennis player. It means they dominated their competition more than anyone else.
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CableZL posted...

lilORANG posted...

By that logic I'm the most dominant mma fighter because I regularly deck my 8 year old nephew when he tries to blind side me.

That's a terrible analogy. Serena Williams wasn't out there playing against 8 year olds and neither was UConn.

But if she was you'd say she was dominant.
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lilORANG posted...

But if she was you'd say she was dominant.

Except we aren't talking about grown people "competing" against children. Like I said, that's a terrible analogy.
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WhinyZach posted...

sktgamer_13dude posted...

WhinyZach posted...

Some people just don't understand that men dominate in athletics, and the top tier of female athletes couldn't even play semi pro mens leagues.

You can call her the most dominant female tennis player, but I mean she's blatantly on PED's so really it's nothing impressive.

lol stfu

what?

If she was on PEDs, they'd catch her.

Sharapova got caught cause she was using a legal substance that became illegal and she didn't know it became illegal cause her trainers didn't tell her.

Just because she dominates a sport doesn't mean she's on PEDs.

Get over yourself.
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The Admiral posted...

Darkman124 posted...

my question is 'why did he bring this up'

it is widely understood among actual tennis fans of both genders, and a subject of much wailing and gnashing of teeth by non-fans looking for something stupid to tweet about

there's no reason or benefit to talk about it. nobody is claiming she'd do well among mens' leagues (except the morons who feel the need to get upset over his comments)

He said this because the NPR interviewer got on his case when he qualified her as being the best "female" tennis player. This was a fairly stupid line of questioning designed to sound politically correct, and I'm not surprised the clickbait articles ignore this context leading up to it. Here is the interview exchange.

Garcia-Navarro: We're talking about male players but there is of course wonderful female players. Let's talk about Serena Williams. You say she is the best female player in the world in the book.

McEnroe: Best female player ever — no question.

Garcia-Navarro: Some wouldn't qualify it, some would say she's the best player in the world. Why qualify it?

McEnroe: Oh! Uh, she's not, you mean, the best player in the world, period?

Garcia-Navarro: Yeah, the best tennis player in the world. You know, why say female player?

McEnroe: Well because if she was in, if she played the men's circuit she'd be like 700 in the world.

http://www.npr.org/2017/06/25/534149646/but-seriously-tennis-great-john-mcenroe-says-hes-seeking-inner-peace

He's right. Seems like a stupid question to ask, since it's just going to rile people up who have an agenda about this sort of thing. Serena Williams might be the most dominant player ever within her own relevant sphere, but female participants are not relevant as far as male sports are concerned.
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CableZL posted...

voldothegr8 posted...

But how can they be the most dominant in all of basketball or all of tennis when it's universally agreed a division 3 mens team would crush UConn or a middling mens tennis player would crush the Williams sisters?

"Most dominant" doesn't mean UConn would beat a men's college basketball team, nor does it mean Serena Williams would beat a male tennis player. It means they dominated their competition more than anyone else.

You said she's probably the most dominant tennis player of all time. That statement to me, and I'm not alone, is saying that she's lumped in with the men. Again, you agree men and women tennis players are a class apart so that statement to me is false, she's the most dominant female tennis player of all time.
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voldothegr8 posted...

You said she's probably the most dominant tennis player of all time. That statement to me, and I'm not alone, is saying that she's lumped in with the men. Again, you agree men and women tennis players are a class apart so that statement to me is false, she's the most dominant female tennis player of all time.

Being the most dominant doesn't necessarily mean you're the best. No male tennis player has dominated like Serena Williams has, so they aren't as dominant. That doesn't mean Serena Williams would beat said male tennis players. It just means she was more dominant. Because as you agreed, no one has dominated like she has.

Again, if no one has dominated like she has, then she is the most dominant. It's essentially a statement of how much better she is than her competition over the years.
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CableZL posted...

lilORANG posted...

But if she was you'd say she was dominant.

Except we aren't talking about grown people "competing" against children. Like I said, that's a terrible analogy.

You can't call someone most dominant of all time if you don't factor in everyone in the game. That includes 8 year olds. She dominates the women's league.
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