Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Diablo, Lucina, Bass and Vanille vs. Id, Sigma and Sephiroth

(+) Yeah! (+)

Diablo, Lucina, Bass, Vanille, the four Seraphim and Hecatoncheir have challenged Id, Sigma and Sephiroth to a fight! Location of the fight: Zero Space Stage 3 - From MegaMan X5, with all other enemies not present in it and access to the rest of the world not allowed. A series of wires, pits, spikes, with Tron-like digital effects all over. Attackers will start at the entrance, with defenders starting at the boss room.. Which side will win?


Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

- Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
- You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
- Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
- If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
- This match will end in 24 hours.
- The following conventions are in use for match topics: www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427


Vanille is as seen in the postgame of Final Fantasy XIII, equipped with Nirvana-Belladonna Wand, Tetradic Crown, Ribbon, Magus's Bracelet, and Magistral Crest, all at max level. She has fully mastered the Ravager, Medic, and Saboteur sections of the Crystarium, and may freely switch between the roles. She may not cast Raise, Death, nor use any Techniques.

Hecatoncheir is as seen in Final Fantasy XIII, with all his abilities. His SP will not constantly drain. He will cast Arise on Vanille if she falls in battle and will leave the battlefield. Vanille may enter Gestalt mode with him at any time provided he is still alive and present, and will be considered to have a full Gestalt gauge, but the Eidolon will leave after the gauge has been expended. Time will not freeze for other fighters during Gestalt mode.

Bass.EXE is as he appears in the Megaman Battle Network series, with access to all the moves and properties of his Omega forms (including Bass Omega GS), though if any of his barriers/auras is destroyed, he loses access to all of them for the rest of the fight. He can operate here same as he does on the Net. He has a loadout of Samus Aran's equipment from Metroid Prime 3, giving him Nova Beam, Corruption Mode, Upgraded Grapple, X-Ray Visor, and Command Visor w/Gunship.

Lailah, Mikleo, Edna and Dezel are accompanying Bass.EXE into battle. They are as they appear in Tales of Zestiria, with an endgame skill build. They will enter battle with 5 Blast Gauges, and will be permanently invisible and inaudible to Id, Vanille and Sephiroth. Only one Seraph may be on the battlefield at a time, with Dezel beginning on the battlefield, and the others dwelling inside him. He may swap between them as seen in the game, and inactive seraphim will heal gradually over time, including from death, but they are considered defeated once Sorey is killed.
---

Lucina the Hellspawn is as she appears in Fire Emblem Awakening as a Level 20 Great Lord. She is equipped with the Parallel Falchion, Levin Sword, Shock Stick, and Gradivus and has the skills Aether, Pavise, and Rightful King. Lucina is also equipped with the Grandfather from Diablo 2, and is considered to be skilled in its use. She additionally has access to Diablo's Cold Touch and Bone Prison attacks from Diablo 2, Uber Diablo's Armaggeddon attack from the same game, and Diablo's teleportation, Fire Wall and Prime Evil's Curse from his Diablo 3 boss fight. She is no longer human and is as durable as Duriel, as seen in his Diablo 2 boss fight.

Diablo is as he appears in Diablo 3 and Heroes of the Storm, with all of his attacks and abilities, although he cannot turn into his shadow form. He has suffered a complete mana drain and been reduced to a state where any single attack will kill him for the first 30 seconds of battle, after which point recovery will be possible.



~VS~

Sigma is as he appears in his first form in Mega Man X1, though he also has access to all the weaponry and moves of his first form final battles in X2, X3, X4, and X5. He has come to the battle with knowledge of Diablo's fighting style, abilities, equipment, and weaknesses, with plenty of oils applied to his weapons that would make them extra effective against his target.

Id is as he appears in Xenogears, with access to all of Fei's deathblows and chi. His other personalities cannot surface or influence him. He is piloting Weltall Id for this week's battle. He has been terrorized by Diablo, causing him to become extremely fearful of everything around him, allies included. He won't be detrimental towards his team, but he won't go out of his way to fight, only attacking back in self-defence.

Sephiroth is as seen in Final Fantasy 7, Crisis Core, Dissidia, Advent Children Complete, and Kingdom Hearts 1&2, with access to all spells, materia, and abilities displayed within. This includes spells/abilities from Safer/Bizzaro Sephiroth, though he may not transform into either of those forms. He may not cast Heartless Angel, FFVII's Supernova, Pale Horse, Stop, or Break.

---

That was fun, but dropping a TER ROR on me is cheating...take it back! FIGHT!
---

@ScareChan
@JeezyMiyagi
@Chaeix

The floor is yours.
---

Jeezy/JC's argument:

First let's talk about Heartless Angel and the terrain we are in. Here's a video of Zero navigating it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFaj4COpUgw

It takes Zero roughly ~45 seconds to get through and that includes dealing with enemies and hopping on platforms and hooking across wires. With the enemies cleared out, a pre-battle primer from Sigma on the size of the terrain plus his flight and teleportation Sephiroth could easily do it in half the time. Then all he has to do is hit Diablo with anything and he's done dead. It could be the most basic Fire/Ice/Lightning spell or he could flick specks of dust in Diablo's direction, any attack will kill him in this state. During this 30 seconds Diablo's team will not have any idea what is going on and any attempts to cure him will be unsuccessful. They do not know about the 30 second time limit and they do not know about the mechanics of how Heartless Angel works because they haven't used any kind of say pre-battle ability that gives them insight into Seph's capabilities. There's even spikes on the ceiling near where he starts, he could bump his head and he'll be OHKO'd. With the assassination complete Sephiroth can beat a hasty retreat back to his comrades.

Secondly we have Demon Hunter Sigma. Sigma has taken a page out of Geralt's book and prepped for this battle learning all there is to know about Diablo and his fighting style, abilities, weaknesses and sexual kinks. This gives him two great advantages. The first is that having knowledge of Diablo's abilities he'll understand why Id is acting weird and how to work around it. The second is the oils applied to his weapons to make them super effective against Diablo. While Diablo is most likely dead before Sigma gets a chance to meet him, fortunately there is Lucina the Hellspawn AKA Diablo Lite for Sigma to tear to pieces. In the Witcher 3 when you are using a Vampire Oil it works against all vampires, Alps, Bruxa, Katakans, Fleders, Garkains, Ekkimaras, etc., not just a single vampire. Lucina is probably close enough to Diablo that the oils will work just as well against her.

Thirdly we have Weltall-Id. Weltall-Id is a beastly Gear that can tap into infinite Ether reserves and destroy lots of things. It has blown up the continent of Elru, single-handily destroyed the city of Etrenank and vaporized Lahan Village. Given that Id is feeling fearful he's likely to be more blasty than melee combat while in the Weltall-Id which is just as good. Getting blasted by Weltall-Id is going to turn his attackers into ash. And fortunately Sigma and Sephiroth can get Weltall-Id to help them out even with the Lord of Terror. Given Sigma's understanding of how the ability works and how Id will still fight in self-defense and "won't be detrimental towards [Id's] team", Sigma and Sephiroth can use Weltall-Id as a shield, provoking the enemy team into accidentally striking it while trying to hit Sigma or Seph. Both Sigma and Seph have teleportation which will make it easy to peek out from behind Weltall-Id, shoot a laser or a spell and then 'port back, drawing fire to the Weltall-Id and having it annihilate the attacker.

This also isn't a great terrain for the other squad. Vanille + Hectoncheir will have a hard time navigating it, they may even get poked some by the spikes on the ceiling and floor. Bass.EXE won't be able to call in the Gunship indoors (and Weltall-Id isn't going to be outclassed by a puny Gunship when he tosses around Warships anyways). Sigma's got weapons to cripple Diablo Lite, Seph has curing to heal himself up after the assassination run plus buffs and debuffs (like the very awesome Stigma which hits the opposing party with a 50% slow), and then Weltall-Id is just too damn stronk to handle.
---

Scare's argument:

Terrain is not huge but it's going to take more than 30 seconds for teams to meet up so diablo will be fine by the time battle happens. Especially if he knows something is wrong he isn't going to lead.

Lord of terror makes Id sit in a corner so even with his mech he is not going to have an impact here. My team will know not to engage until he is the last one left.

Bass has seraphin which will let him steal any buffs seph may get up. His metriod load our will also be helpful here. This is a good terrain. To use that nova beam I would say.

Lucina has range and melee. And vanille has her assist here which will do work.

And canon wise this season bass has a win over seph and he is even stronger now
---

Id solos, BTW. He has Weltall, this match is not close. Seph and Sigma lose but then Id is attacked, gets mad and 1v4s these jabronis.
---

KanzarisKelshen posted...

He is piloting Weltall

KanzarisKelshen posted...

causing him to become extremely fearful of everything around him,

this is a bad idea.
a REALLY bad idea.

also Id isn't piloting Weltall Id. just Weltall.
Sigma is pretty ballin' here too. the same bizarre mix of making X1-X5 Sigma which basically makes him a teleporting gunner with a super strong shield and various forms of melee.
---

this is a bad idea.
a REALLY bad idea.

also Id isn't piloting Weltall Id. just Weltall.
Sigma is pretty ballin' here too. the same bizarre mix of making X1-X5 Sigma which basically makes him a teleporting gunner with a super strong shield and various forms of melee.

We say 'Weltall Id' just so it's clear that it's the Demon of Elru form of Weltall. Otherwise some jackoff would 100% try to argue it's basic blue Weltall instead because this is mercs and inane arguments always happen if you let 'em. Weltall Id is indeed just 'Weltall' but activated with Id's hax.
---

Good ole mother daughter combo
---

Man this particular bass has teleport spam doesnt he?

via Dezel?

If so this is a fucking squash for Bass and Hecat.
---

how do you teleport spam through giant city busting explosions.
because that's pretty much what you're in for. you make Id terrified of everything, he's just gonna go 'fuck it, nuke everything.'
---

I feel like this is lopsided, and not for the side that has Mechald.
---

Bass is pretty good yes.

And which argument are you using? Because you can't both quick strike to kill diablo and hide behind id.

And I don't feel like this knowledge would apply to mercs abilities just their in game abilities.

Also your ability is used to know about diablo not lucina. You don't get a two fit one
---

I think Weltall Id isn't very useful here and his team gets stomped without him. But there comes the issue of, at the end, how do they kill Weltall, even acknowledging it only fights in self defense

I think with the right strategy this could be done but I don't know if Vanille's team has the strategic mind to do so. I mean maybe Bass can just have Samus's Gunship carpet bomb Weltall Id repeatedly. That honestly might work.
---

Lopen posted...

I think Weltall Id isn't very useful here and his team gets stomped without him. But there comes the issue of, at the end, how do they kill Weltall, even acknowledging it only fights in self defense

I think with the right strategy this could be done but I don't know if Vanille's team has the strategic mind to do so. I mean maybe Bass can just have Samus's Gunship carpet bomb Weltall Id repeatedly. That honestly might work.

It's an enclosed space. The gunship doesn't work indoors.
---

Id Solo-

*Reads he is terrified*

Team Diablo
---

Well we know that he only attacks in self defense. And with that in mind if I'm hitting him long range, self defense doesn't mean he closes the gap. Carpet bombing, yes but he also has that hyper drive phazon mode and that nova beam that can basically go through walls.
---

they're pretty deep underground so i don't think there's anything to really carpet bomb. from there i don't think Weltall Id is leaving that boss room but as soon as he hears somebody on the other side open the door, good luck. he's not actually capable of holding back here.
---

ScareChan posted...

Well we know that he only attacks in self defense. And with that in mind if I'm hitting him long range, self defense doesn't mean he closes the gap. Carpet bombing, yes but he also has that hyper drive phazon mode and that nova beam that can basically go through walls.

Scare, Weltall id literally has city-destroying blasts. He destroyed an entire country over the course of a single night SO BADLY that the flying nation that controls the world had to memorywipe the world to think that the nation didn't exist and had never existed. He is fucking ridiculous. If you attack him he will literally just obliterate the terrain and everyone on it in one go.
---

Oh. I thought the terrain was different for some reason.

Weltall Id

Just don't see a way to take him down here. I think GameFAQs Lucina might be able but yeah in a typical fight it just isn't happening.
---

Also bass has his ability to copy robot abilities so he can also be using abilities that he sees sigma use. And since it's a mech if there does end up being combat on id behalf then bass would be able to use that ability as well
---

ScareChan posted...

And with that in mind if I'm hitting him long range,

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Attackers will start at the entrance, with defenders starting at the boss room.

no, you really aren't.
the second somebody gets in that room everything else is fucked. like yeah the rest of his team is gonna die, maybe they'll get somebody on the way, but that is not going to be pretty since Id being scared of everything and in defense mode is basically just him using full power, all the time, every time. there's no cocky attitude to stop him, it's just nuke.
---

KanzarisKelshen posted...

ScareChan posted...

Well we know that he only attacks in self defense. And with that in mind if I'm hitting him long range, self defense doesn't mean he closes the gap. Carpet bombing, yes but he also has that hyper drive phazon mode and that nova beam that can basically go through walls.

Scare, Weltall id literally has city-destroying blasts. He destroyed an entire country over the course of a single night SO BADLY that the flying nation that controls the world had to memorywipe the world to think that the nation didn't exist and had never existed. He is fucking ridiculous. If you attack him he will literally just obliterate the terrain and everyone on it in one go.

Bass has similar showings. I feel you are really disrespecting the ability usages here. It's not browser shell that can be caught by kratos it's a mental attack that's putting him a corner
---

Bass has similar showings.

Where? The anime and manga? Cause I don't recall one from the games. And like...I'm receptive to a sale based on anime and manga stuff, but most people aren't and Id's power is ridiculous. He's basically a walking repeatable nuclear bomb.

And no, I'm not disrespecting it. Id does nothing until you attack him, and if he was on foot I do the same instavote but in your favor. But he's on the mech. You piss him off and then he fights back in self defense and unfortunately he's a 10/week so you lose. That's all there is to it.
---

Lopen posted...

Oh. I thought the terrain was different for some reason.

Weltall Id

Just don't see a way to take him down here. I think GameFAQs Lucina might be able but yeah in a typical fight it just isn't happening.

This is why i asked if this is telespam bass

If it is he can just telespam into the cockpit and i frankly think he beats flailing Id inside a cockpit
---

ScareChan posted...

Bass has similar showings

you know that scene in Xenogears where Fei craters Lahan?
yeah, that's what's going to happen here.

the only alternative is what he did to Solaris where the whole place is coming down, though pretty sure the answer is him just going boom on a blast bigger than the terrain.

Bass does not have that showing, no.
---

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Bass has similar showings.

Where? The anime and manga? Cause I don't recall one from the games. And like...I'm receptive to a sale based on anime and manga stuff, but most people aren't and Id's power is ridiculous. He's basically a walking repeatable nuclear bomb.

And no, I'm not disrespecting it. Id does nothing until you attack him, and if he was on foot I do the same instavote but in your favor. But he's on the mech. You piss him off and then he fights back in self defense and unfortunately he's a 10/week so you lose. That's all there is to it.

Yes the anime and the manga

And if the cockpit is accessible uh, the seraphon are invisible to him. They can just walk on in and duck him up and he won't know what's going on, and won't be able to operate the mech anyways
---

They can just walk on in

How exactly

The Seraphim don't know how Weltall Id is built. For that matter, neither does Bass. This is all extremely 'GameFAQS X' arguing. Yes, if your team is all performing optimal, personalityless play they can maybe win. But they have personalities of their own, so they won't.
---

Butt regardless, bass can telelort, diablo can teleport, lucina should be able to teleport . If there is a cockpit they take him on in there. No aggro on the mech
---

It's in diablo personality to get up close and personal and that should extend to lucina
---

ScareChan posted...

It's in diablo personality to get up close and personal and that should extend to lucina

Yes, so why would Diablo assume that this colossus is being piloted by a man instead of just being its own thing

More likely that he tries to wrassle the Mechald than he tries to teleport into the cockpit with no idea it exists, imo
---

Eddv posted...

If it is he can just telespam into the cockpit and i frankly think he beats flailing Id inside a cockpit

Yeah that would work too

Anyone can beat him by getting into the cockpit (Diablo, Bass, and Lucina have viable entry methods) but it seems like a strategy that needs a stronger tactician or out of character knowledge to accomplish
---

It's not game faq meta it's mercs meta. They have a general understanding of who is who. They understand it's a mech they understand id is in there terrified. That is all knowledge shared and understood in match . Why would they lunch the mech when they go get the piolt
---

hell, i don't even think operating Weltall is the right word to use.
Fei wasn't doing shit when he nuked Lahan. it just automatically amplified his ether into a giant explosion.

a strong emotional reaction was triggered with him in the mech and everything went byebye. and that's basically what you're asking to happen even in your most optimal situation.


not to mention the idea of teleporting into something you have no idea about seems like a great way to get yourself smashed into pieces. nobody's doing that.
---

It says it in the write up that we know it's id and he is piolting it. That's known knowledge. There was a match recently where you dug up the wiki that all competitors have basic knowledge of the opponents. We know it's a man inside
---

ScareChan posted...

It's not game faq meta it's mercs meta. They have a general understanding of who is who. They understand it's a mech they understand id is in there terrified. That is all knowledge shared and understood in match . Why would they lunch the mech when they go get the piolt

Nope. As per the conventions they have a vague description of the enemy team and that's it. So like they know Sigma is a baldy with a lightsaber, Seph is a silverhaired bishie with a very long katana, and Id is a guy who looks like a 90s X-Men villain. They have no particular insight into their combat style or anything else.

(Not to mention, if Seph and Sigma camp inside the boss room, odds are Id just gets tagged in the crossfire and then rip)
---

Lopen posted...

Eddv posted...

If it is he can just telespam into the cockpit and i frankly think he beats flailing Id inside a cockpit

Yeah that would work too

Anyone can beat him by getting into the cockpit (Diablo, Bass, and Lucina have viable entry methods) but it seems like a strategy that needs a stronger tactician or out of character knowledge to accomplish

It's not out of character if we know that id is in the match, terrified and that the last thing left is this giant mech when we know id is a guy.
---

Oh duh. Bass has his visor. He can identify id inside the mech. Not out of character at all to use his tools to scout what's up
---

ScareChan posted...

We know it's a man inside

sure.
but you don't know where he is, you don't know how much space there is, you don't know the size of anything inside, or quite frankly anything about it.

you just know that there's a guy in there somewhere.
this is effectively the same as asking "well my guy can teleport, why doesn't he teleport into the enemy's body?"

only in this case they'd still miss because they don't know where he is or how deep he's in there. they don't know anything about the mech. seriously, you don't teleport into an unknown quantity. that's a terrible argument.
---

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Yes, so why would Diablo assume that this colossus is being piloted by a man instead of just being its own thing

KanzarisKelshen posted...

-Mercenaries know their enemies' names and a rough description of appearance (e. g.: "Your enemy is Dr. Wily. He's an old man with a robot"). Mercenaries do not have any intrinsic ways of telling enemies apart from neutral NPCs or distinguishing between multiple enemy teams.

"Your enemy is Id. He's a man with a robot"
---

welltaid id

Bass and the angels

Yeah this seens pretty clear cut to me.
---

Wanglicious posted...

ScareChan posted...

We know it's a man inside

sure.
but you don't know where he is, you don't know how much space there is, you don't know the size of anything inside, or quite frankly anything about it.

you just know that there's a guy in there somewhere.
this is effectively the same as asking "well my guy can teleport, why doesn't he teleport into the enemy's body?"

only in this case they'd still miss because they don't know where he is or how deep he's in there. they don't know anything about the mech. seriously, you don't teleport into an unknown quantity. that's a terrible argument.

ScareChan posted...

Oh duh. Bass has his visor. He can identify id inside the mech. Not out of character at all to use his tools to scout what's up

---

...a visor doesn't tell you depth.
---

Yeah that's more the "needs a better tactician" end for me.

Like, I dunno, maybe the X-Ray Visor can punch through the wall of the boss room AND Weltall, allowing Bass to see "hey there's a dude in there" before said dude is attacking like a nut in self defense?

That actually might make it more viable.
---

I do believe samus' does as it's x ray visor and command visor
---

I mean, kanz's own rules say that they would know Id is in Weltall.
---

Like i said, known knowledge of the match and our ability usages would make it make sense for them to know how to handle id. It won't be a perfect tactical coupe we grau no. But bass visor will be useful


Oh shut. diablo senses fear. And the dude is terrified. Of course he can locate him
---

no, it doesn't. x-ray doesn't even make sense to see depth in the first place. that's literally not how it works.

but on top of that, there's this bit in the Prime notes:
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/X-Ray_Visor
The X-Ray Visor can reveal invisible items, areas, and enemies.
Robotic enemies jam the X-Ray Visor’s frequency. Eliminate them to restore function to the Visor.


and command visor is just for the gunship.
no, neither detects depth and x-ray probably doesn't work anyway.
---

"Your enemy is Id. He's a man with a robot"

That doesn't apply. The conventions inform based on the base writeups. Wily is an example there because he has a robot no matter what. Id's mech comes from an ability, which the conventions don't cover - the mercs wouldn't know that say...Joanna Dark has a rifle that pierces through walls if she used Farsight.
---