Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Mega Man and Nightmare Geese vs. Kirby, Booker deWitt and Potemkin

(+) Yeah! (+)

KJH posted...

This stage is just really bad for Megaman

Glad I lost that bubbly clouds bid then
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Bubbly clouds would have been so much worse for this! There's actual platforms, difference in height, ways to run away. The only option Megaman has once Potemkin's in against him here is just stand in front of Potemkin and get beaten to death against a wall, or try to jump over him, and he's not exactly an air-dasher like X is. Potemkin would likely yank him right out of the air with Heat Knuckle (his anti-air grab where he just crushes the opponent in his hand while firing his gauntlets' explosions at them point blank).
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Nightmare Geese

MM having a second life definitely matters, and I think anybody saying Geese isn't a major threat for Potemkin is pretty damn silly.
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Saying Geese is anywhere near Potemkin's level is hilariously silly.
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trdl23 posted...

Saying Geese is anywhere near Potemkin's level is hilariously silly.

^^^^^

You guys do realize that a single finger from Potemkin applies over sixteen tons of force and that in his weaker form he was considered equal to a magic battletank division, right

Geese just doesn't compete with that. Potemkin is consistently equal to Ky Kiske, and lmao if you'd take Geese to trouble Ky.
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Yeah Potemkin turns Geese into a pancake asap
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nightmare geese is such a weird thing to argue about because it's basically just a powered up geese with no lore explanation to it. generally speaking i'd think of it as just geese cut loose. plenty of chi everywhere on him but still geese. there aren't any real feats or majorly different things you can argue for beyond "he hits harder, faster, and uses a couple techniques better." it's frankly what he should be in the first place really.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

trdl23 posted...

Saying Geese is anywhere near Potemkin's level is hilariously silly.

^^^^^

You guys do realize that a single finger from Potemkin applies over sixteen tons of force and that in his weaker form he was considered equal to a magic battletank division, right

Geese just doesn't compete with that. Potemkin is consistently equal to Ky Kiske, and lmao if you'd take Geese to trouble Ky.

I mean, the lore says stuff like that, but then in story he's fighting even with people like Johnny, Axl, and Bridget.
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Johnny would demolish Geese too, so...
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that's nightmare geese to you, buckos
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trdl23 posted...

Johnny would demolish Geese too, so...

Johnny, maybe

The other two, no
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axl is still a very high level guy, though we don't see him do much.
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didn't geese get thrown off a high rise and then come back better than before
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Wanglicious posted...

axl is still a very high level guy, though we don't see him do much.

Oh, right. I'm just saying... Potemkin's lore is great and all, but his actual story power is largely inconsistent, so just taking him at his greatest (the lore) seems silly, since... The lore puts him faaaar above somebody like Bridget, and yet they fight even.
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That's like saying Dan is on level with Akuma because you can beat Akuma with Dan in game.
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Tom Bombadil posted...

didn't geese get thrown off a high rise and then come back better than before

nightmare geese was what snk made when lore didn't make sense for geese to be in there anymore, so yeah, this one outlived all that and is much stronger. though i still just see it as 'this is how geese really is in peak form.'
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Dan and Akuma don't have storyline battles though
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trdl23 posted...

That's like saying Dan is on level with Akuma because you can beat Akuma with Dan in game.

No. Potemkin fights even with people like Bridget in the actual story, not just Arcade Mode/gameplay.
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StealThisSheen posted...

trdl23 posted...

That's like saying Dan is on level with Akuma because you can beat Akuma with Dan in game.

No. Potemkin fights even with people like Bridget in the actual story, not just Arcade Mode/gameplay.

No, he doesn't. Potemkin hasn't ever MET Bridget in one of the canon story branches, I don't think. You have to remember pre-XRD GG games run on 'one true path' continuity mostly, and sometimes don't even have a canon branch for a character at all (this in fact happened to Potemkin IIRC - in one of his Accent Core endings he dies heroically, in all the others he joins up with Chipp as a bodyguard for President Gabriel, which didn't happen). Potemkin's main fights are with Axl and Ky.
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Since when did Potemkin fight even with Bridget? Like that sounds about as canon as Jam legit beating Justice in Guilty Gear 1's tournament because she can do it in her arcade story.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

You have to remember pre-XRD GG games run on 'one true path' continuity mostly,

Nah, I don't think this is fair. It's not like most of the non-"one true path" storylines are out of line with what the character is capable of. Even if it didn't end up being the canon ending, they specifically chose "Potemkin fights even with Bridget" as a thing that COULD have happened and as being in line with his power level.

Even if you want to play that game, though, Axl isn't much better than Bridget, if at all, when it comes to actual fighting feats, so...
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Pre xrd Guilty Gear games, while they have only one 'canon' path, tend to have fairly consistent power levels for the characters among the non-canon ones. Potemkin is pretty consistently on a level below what the Guilty Gear fan squad will put him at, mostly because it's easy to hype his top end strength feats-- problem is the guy's skill just doesn't match up to the strength feats.
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Since when? Like when has Potemkin fallen short in a fight. Canonically all he's done pretty much is impress Zepp, win his independence, and be the head fighter of a military coup of the strongest, most advanced nation around in the GG world. Every organization and win quote by others as well as his role in any story puts his strength over like crazy (even Ky thinks he'd lose against him).
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Nah, I don't think this is fair. It's not like most of the non-"one true path" storylines are out of line with what the character is capable of. Even if it didn't end up being the canon ending, they specifically chose "Potemkin fights even with Bridget" as a thing that COULD have happened and as being in line with his power level.

Even if you want to play that game, though, Axl isn't much better than Bridget, if at all, when it comes to actual fighting feats, so...

As a counterpoint, Johnny is overhyped as being equivalent to Dizzy and Justice in one of his branches. So yes, overhype happens. A lot.
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In this very topic even.
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If you can point me to feats that make Axl impressive, do so

Otherwise, that definitely shows Potemkin isn't top tier
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I mean you'd expect Potemkin had a win over Sol (or even a competitive match with) with how he's talked about in these topics sometimes. He's good but Mega Man is basically a nightmare matchup for him and I wouldn't say he's presented at the top tier of Guilty Gear characters who would be a tier above Mega Man.
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Axl fights half assing Sol like 100 times in one of the non-canon paths in a time loop and beats him once. Pretty sure that's his best feat.
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axl's best feat is stopping time.
basically he went from timeslipping so much he eventually got to understand and manipulate time powers too. most recent feats have him stopping time on a global scale so Sol can do stuff.
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*pops in*

Yeah this discussion is about what I expected. I don't think I've ever seen a fighting game character in Mercs be consistently agreed on. That's what happens when you have gameplay that doesn't match up with story, as well as a loosely-defined story that takes multiple paths and contradicts itself.
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I think this one goes to Mega Man. With one life, Potemkin's team wins, but Mega Man gets revived to full while the other team has no way to heal off the damage he did with the first life. Soul Steal helps a lot, because the healing from it is going to make Mega Man even harder to put down. If it were a bigger terrain, Geese and Mega Man being separated would matter, but I see Geese starting at the midpoint of the two teams, so they should be back together by the time the teams meet.
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Eh I think most fighting games aren't too bad. Most of em the canon isn't so confusing as much finding the canon, which tends to be spread through arcade modes of several games, oftentimes characters unrelated to the character in question with gaps being filled in by supplemental material.

Guilty Gear is kinda worse because the dumb stuff was originally contained to the gears and I-No for the most part then midseries they decided they wanted EVERYTHING to be super anime nonsense so you have some characters like Potemkin and Johnny who are just really inconsistent, with no real reason given for any sort of power buff so it's like ???
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Anyone want to come in here and save my ass in the next hour?
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Mewtwo59 posted...

I think this one goes to Mega Man. With one life, Potemkin's team wins, but Mega Man gets revived to full while the other team has no way to heal off the damage he did with the first life. Soul Steal helps a lot, because the healing from it is going to make Mega Man even harder to put down. If it were a bigger terrain, Geese and Mega Man being separated would matter, but I see Geese starting at the midpoint of the two teams, so they should be back together by the time the teams meet.

Thing is, Mega Man comes back to life, but Potemkin's already right on him when he revives. Mega Man spawns directly into Potemkin's hands just to get crushed all over again
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Actually, Mega Man goes back to his starting location when he dies, which is probably some distance from Potemkin.
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most fighters are fine, yeah. SF is pretty good outside of Akuma, KOF is good as long as you don't start using non-canon characters. guilty gear is pretty good but it is in the middle of a massive power jump where even middle tiers like Venom are pulling out interdimensional weapons that can cause widescale destruction now.

johnny is generally considered super dangerous because of his ability to strike quickly but even now his powerup is basically that he's got AOE sword slashes at a gunner's range. but he's got his clear weak points and has lost fights if he cant get those strikes to hit you.

Potemkin is... i'm not sure. he's generally considered a tier below human Sol and just a bit below Ky technically. not due to a lack of power but skill and technique. he's very much so considered a high tier in that universe, otherwise he wouldn't be in the position he's in with Zepp. even in the alt timeline, Potemkin was 2nd to Sol. he's consistently given a lot of respect.
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Drakeryn posted...

Actually, Mega Man goes back to his starting location when he dies, which is probably some distance from Potemkin.

Highly doubt that. The terrain's not very big, and by the time Mega Man dies the first time, Potemkin's likely to have already closed most of the distance to Mega Man's starting location. Hell, if he can even make it to the door of the boss room, Mega Man is fuuuuucked
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Johnbobb posted...

Drakeryn posted...

Actually, Mega Man goes back to his starting location when he dies, which is probably some distance from Potemkin.

Highly doubt that. The terrain's not very big, and by the time Mega Man dies the first time, Potemkin's likely to have already closed most of the distance to Mega Man's starting location. Hell, if he can even make it to the door of the boss room, Mega Man is fuuuuucked

Why would Potemkin be continually moving toward MM's start point during the fighting for no reason in order for this to be true
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Drakeryn posted...

Actually, Mega Man goes back to his starting location when he dies, which is probably some distance from Potemkin.

this is why MM wins fwiw
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Potemkin > Geese, not a conflict
Potemkin > 1 life Mega Man
2 lives Mega Man > Potemkin

but there's also Kirby and Booker (okay he's irrelevant here) and i don't think Geese is killing either. this Kirby's also got Mega Man and Archer, so they probably have some idea to what kind of fighter Mega Man is as a result of Kirby Man. not to account for subweapons but enough to know what his main weapon is. Kirbcher is a good snipe in the worst case.

so it's the question of is Potemkin + Kirby + meat shield of a body enough to top Mega Man's second life.
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I agree Potemkin beats Geese, but I don't think he does so quickly, so there's definitely time for MM to either go for the other two or do enough damage to Potemkin that he's not much of a factor the second time.
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StealThisSheen posted...

Johnbobb posted...

Drakeryn posted...

Actually, Mega Man goes back to his starting location when he dies, which is probably some distance from Potemkin.

Highly doubt that. The terrain's not very big, and by the time Mega Man dies the first time, Potemkin's likely to have already closed most of the distance to Mega Man's starting location. Hell, if he can even make it to the door of the boss room, Mega Man is fuuuuucked

Why would Potemkin be continually moving toward MM's start point during the fighting for no reason in order for this to be true

Why would Mega Man move directly out of the boss room and toward Potemkin? That makes no sense. From Mega Man's perspective, he'd want to keep a distance from Potemkin, while Potemkin would want to close the gap. It's only logical that Potemkin's side would be moving forward TOWARD Mega Man rather than the other way around.

From there, you can figure that once Mega Man dies, everyone will be closer to MM's spawn than Potemkin's. And since it's not that big of a terrain, AND a considerable part of the terrain is the boss room MM spawns in that is easily blocked off by a Potemkin-sized door, there's not much reason to believe that Potemkin wouldn't at least be at the door to the boss room by the time MM respawns.

He's a general. He knows how to lead an advancing team and trap the outnumbered enemy.
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Wanglicious posted...

Booker (okay he's irrelevant here)

Keep in mind, Booker is excellent as a sniper and has vigors to keep MM distracted, even if you don't think they do a lot of damage.

Sniper rifle absolutely does damage though, especially to a Mega Man that can't move much away from a Potemkin keeping him in place
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Johnbobb posted...

Why would Mega Man move directly out of the boss room and toward Potemkin? That makes no sense. From Mega Man's perspective, he'd want to keep a distance from Potemkin, while Potemkin would want to close the gap. It's only logical that Potemkin's side would be moving forward TOWARD Mega Man rather than the other way around.

Because his teammate starts away from him. Why would it be more logical for MM to stay still than for him to go join Geese in a terrain he knows?
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Also, there's the question of 'would booker and potemkin just advance without kirby'

it's more likely megaman and geese come to them, not the other way round, which closes the distances.
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StealThisSheen posted...

Johnbobb posted...

Why would Mega Man move directly out of the boss room and toward Potemkin? That makes no sense. From Mega Man's perspective, he'd want to keep a distance from Potemkin, while Potemkin would want to close the gap. It's only logical that Potemkin's side would be moving forward TOWARD Mega Man rather than the other way around.

Because his teammate starts away from him. Why would it be more logical for MM to stay still than for him to go join Geese in a terrain he knows?

Because Mega Man can attack from a great distance than Potemkin can. MM absolutely wants to keep a distance between them, while Potemkin wants to close the distance.

If MM rushes directly toward Potemkin, the giant tanky brute who could smash him Hulk>Loki style, it'd essentially be suicide for MM
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yeah i'm assuming geese and megaman go towards them more so than not. why? because megaman's got two lives, that's why. he'll want some space for his revival.

did forget booker had a sniper.
as for kirby moving with potemkin: kirby's just gonna sit on his shoulder. he could literally just be Kirbcher and snipe from that position.
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Johnbobb posted...

StealThisSheen posted...

Johnbobb posted...

Why would Mega Man move directly out of the boss room and toward Potemkin? That makes no sense. From Mega Man's perspective, he'd want to keep a distance from Potemkin, while Potemkin would want to close the gap. It's only logical that Potemkin's side would be moving forward TOWARD Mega Man rather than the other way around.

Because his teammate starts away from him. Why would it be more logical for MM to stay still than for him to go join Geese in a terrain he knows?

Because Mega Man can attack from a great distance than Potemkin can. MM absolutely wants to keep a distance between them, while Potemkin wants to close the distance.

If MM rushes directly toward Potemkin, the giant tanky brute who could smash him Hulk>Loki style, it'd essentially be suicide for MM

So you're suggesting he just stays put, despite having two lives, and despite it meaning he's ditching his teammate?

Yeeeeaaaahhh.... No.
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Wanglicious posted...

as for kirby moving with potemkin: kirby's just gonna sit on his shoulder. he could literally just be Kirbcher and snipe from that position.

i need to draw this
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StealThisSheen posted...

So you're suggesting he just stays put, despite having two lives, and despite it meaning he's ditching his teammate?

Yeeeeaaaahhh.... No.

Not stays put, but definitely doesn't rush him head on.

I imagine it like

1. Potemkin rushes forward toward Geese while Kirby and Booker follow at a reasonable distance.
2. Mega Man moves forward, keeping some distance but providing support fire
3. Potemkin pancakes Geese
4. Potemkin begins closing in on MM, who back up some to keep a distance.
5. Potemkin crushes MM, but by that point they're at least close enough to the boss room that Potemkin can trap him in there upon respawn
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