Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ KOS-MOS Wrex Donte BassEXE Liquid Yu Narukami Kirby vs. Dante Sparda

(+) Yeah! (+)

KOS-MOS, Wrex, Donte, Bass.EXE, Liquid Snake, Yu Narukami and Kirby have challenged Dante Sparda to a fight! Location of the fight: Temen-Ni-Gru - The enormous demonic tower connecting Earth to the demon dimension. Access to the full tower is allowed, including the outside. Attackers will begin at the bottom, with Dante starting at the top, looking down on them. . Which side will win?

Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of a pre-selected plan of battle.
- "Broken" refers to a lot of things, including insta-death, auto-effects, a variety of status effects (e.g., Imp, Silence, Stop, *not* Poison), and revival. Unless stated otherwise, nobody has them, though do use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

- Bold your votes (using bold HTML tags).
- You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
- Leaders cannot vote for their own teams (and players from the same pool may not vote as well), but they are free to argue their case.
- If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
- This match will end in 24 hours.
- The following conventions are in use for match topics: www.gamefaqs.com/boards/570224-mercs/75290480/878106427


KOS-MOS is as she appears in Xenosaga Episode 1. She has access to her techs as well as Shion's transferable ones. She has all her weapons aside from F-SCYTHE, and is equipped with D Unit V6, White Ring, and Brave Soul, and has the skills AGI+1, Damage -10%, AP +1, and W Special. She may not access her Blue Eyes form or use Revert, S-Chain or Gate.

Urdnot Wrex is as he appears in the Mass Effect series, with all of his available talents from Mass Effect 1 at maximum level. He comes to battle equipped with the M-300 Claymore Shotgun (with Shredder Mod V), the Graal Spike Thrower Shotgun (with Omni Blade V), and the Striker Assault Rifle (with Magazine Upgrade V), all as they appear in Mass Effect 3.

Dante, but you can call him Donte the demon killer, is as he appears in DmC, with access to all his demon arms, angel arms, and ranged weapons, fully upgraded. His Devil Trigger may be used only if he has a full gauge, which starts empty, but will not fling enemies into the air helplessly for no reason and only offers limited benefits to stats and regeneration as in the gameplay.
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Bass.EXE is as he appears in the Megaman Battle Network series, with access to all the moves and properties of his Omega forms (including Bass Omega GS), though if any of his barriers/auras is destroyed, he loses access to all of them for the rest of the fight. He can operate here same as he does on the Net. He may cast the spell Luster Candy, as it appears in Shin Megami Tensei IV. Thanks to the Triforce of Courage, his parameters have been doubled. He may freely switch to his persona Norn, as it appears in Persona 4, who only has their natural non-passive skills and elemental affinities.

Kirby is as seen in the Kirby Super Star and Smash series. He has full use of his Smash Brothers Moveset along with the moves from his Parasol, Ninja and Wheel forms. (He has also inhaled KOS-MOS and Tira, gaining a set of moves fitting each). He cannot inhale enemy fighters nor create helpers from his abilities during the match, but can inhale anything else and will not lose access to his forms due to taking damage. He may freely switch to his persona Thor, as it appears in Persona 4, who only has their natural non-passive skills and elemental affinities. Null Physical is not available.

Liquid Snake is as seen during the Hind D boss fight in Metal Gear Solid. He will pilot the helicopter in from the nearest convenient location on his team's side. He may not leave the Hind and if it goes down, it can be assumed Liquid has gone down with it. Thanks to the Triforce of Courage, the Hind D's parameters have been doubled.

Yu Narukami (MC) is as he appears in Persona 4. He has the persona Izanagi available, with all default skills from P4 learned in addition to all the moves from Persona 4 Arena, with the exception of his mortal blow or gameplay mechanics (invincibility frames, etc). He also can freely switch to his persona Isis, who only has their natural non-passive skills and elemental affinities.

~VS~

Dante Sparda is as he appears across the Devil May Cry series, with full access to all of his weapons, styles and abilities, including his canon regen and Devil Trigger, except for special DTs (such as Majin Devil Trigger, Sparda DT, etc.). Quicksilver and Doppelganger (as well as any other duplication/timehax abilities) will function as they do in the gameplay.

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It's the one you've been waiting for, ladies and gentlemen! The one and only, the true Son of Sparda! FIGHT!
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@Lopen

The floor is yours.
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i thought the hind d would be sweet for attacking a tower but dante has the kalina ann, that kinda gun like canonically fucks the hind d
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team kirby could probably do this with their best two guys

Dante SOLOS. It's Mercenaries' golden boy at his full power, full regen, and nothing to hold him back!

This hasn't been very relevant before, but in his own series, Dante is a capital T TANK. This is him at the start of his demon hunting career:

https://youtu.be/3UeC6a-GveU?t=455

But he's not as seen at the start of DMC3 here, oh no. He's Peak Dante. This means he has Lady's Kalina Ann, Vergil's Yamato, Doppelganger Style, Pandora, Quicksilver Style, the Bangle of Time, the whooooooole nine yards, with pretty much no meaningful restrictions. Brief reminder of the silliness of Dante, in case you forgot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rz2ivHHCug

Yeeeeeeaaah, this is pretty grim for the enemy team, isn't it? Especially because Dante has the almighty high ground advantage. It'll take a whiiile for the enemy team to reach him - or what is more likely, ranged attackers will aggro him and get destroyed by him in advance. Note the ranged arsenal displayed circa 1:30 onwards in the second vid. Who the hell can tango with that on a man who just refuses to die? No one? Yeah, thought so.

And that's all I really have to say here. I don't want to bug you with unnecessary exposition. It's time for this party to get crazy! Let's ROCK, baby!
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Dante from DmC is strong

Dragging skyscraper Mundus around - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZYxfesVYBg#t=13m12s
Punching Mundus hard enough to send him reeling - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZYxfesVYBg#t=14m07s (followed by him propelling through Mundus's body fast enough to cut through the true version of Mundus inside, grab vergil, and fly out the other side, outpacing an explosion in the process)
Getting launched by Mundus and smashed into a skyscraper while remaining conscious (followed by him recovering pretty damn fast from nearly getting his heart ripped out)- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bs9GNSKrQ7g#t=2m43s
Casually no selling assault rifles - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TUB9GM45t0#t=3m40s

After that clip of being shot, same video, you have the stage which is fairly ridiculous in its own right-- I wouldn't necessarily take the time slowing moments seriously as I believe there's some explanation related to Mundus being pissed off creating hellrift nonsense setting off Dante's Devil Trigger (which does have a similar time slowing effect) to blame for those (despite their convenience), but take the other things seriously, like keeping up with a speeding car while using his grappling devil arm, or ripping a propeller off a helicopter, or tossing a bus to form a bridge.

I would put DmC Dante as likely having more raw power than Dante classic, while having enough durability, reaction times, and speed of his own to be able to keep up with Dante for some time, though the feats favor Dante classic in those regards.

Now this slight hype package isn't really to claim that DmC Dante is going to beat Dante outright-- just that he can probably hang with him to a reasonable extent, especially in the early parts of the fight where Dante is probably not taking the oppostion very seriously. I'd put him around the level of Nero, who holds his own with Dante reasonably well (

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIpbY_TjzkA). He has a similar fighting style to Nero with his grappling techniques and the same ridiculous strength feats Nero has, so yeah, very similar in my eyes. And Dante is almost certainly going after this poseur first, given he's ripped off his coat and has an attitude on him.

What then gives his team the advantage is:

Destructive power of KOS-MOS's guns, and Kirb-MOS's, which should be sufficient to keep even 'unnerfed' Dante down, as well as their Down Dex and Down Force ether abilities, which can debuff Dante's speed and attack. KOS in particular has the durability and self-repairing nanomachines to keep going for a long time, and Kirb-MOS's Thor persona gives him substantial physical resist, at least.
Bass's ability to buff all parameters of his party for the whole fight with Luster Candy (3x casts give his entire party +60% speed, attack, defense, and lasts infinite duration) as well as Bass's ability through his persona to single target fullheal while being super durable himself, and to do an inverse Luster Candy debuff on Dante with Debilitate, debuffing him even further.
Double parameters A HIND-D?! serving as a dangerous distraction for a while and probably goading Dante into a disadvantageous position
Yu's partywide full heals, which will need to be dealt with, but may not be done in a timely manner due to Dante having so many foes to deal with
Wrex's durability and crowd control with his biotics (a force push to disorient Dante, and a stasis to freeze him for a bit of a reprieve if he gets too crazy), as well as the huge damage output of his two shotguns-- the claymore in particular ignores over a large portion of Dante's defense due to its shredder rounds, as well as the stunning capabilities of the Striker assault rifle

tl;dr the Dante mirror, which likely takes place first, takes a while to resolve, and buffs + debuffs should bring Dante down to a reasonable level, allowing KOS-MOS and Kirb-MOS to deal the finishing blows on Dante with support from Yu and CC from Wrex
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X_Dante_X posted...

i thought the hind d would be sweet for attacking a tower but dante has the kalina ann, that kinda gun like canonically fucks the hind d

Kalina Ann's rockets don't really home so it's not as good for this

Also this is a double parameters Hind D!
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donte TEAMS
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Kalina Ann's rockets don't really home so it's not as good for this

Also this is a double parameters Hind D!

On the other hand, Pandora's rockets certainly do - and the Hind is gonna get wiped by like a couple seconds of heavy fire from it.
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I don't think Dante has much time or even inclination to bust out Pandora from the beginning. If he ignores Dante, but you can call him Donte the demon killer, he's going to get grappled.

But he's gonna get grappled by his cutting wit first. One FUCK YOU! is all it's going to take for Dante to run down the tower and engage in melee.
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Lopen posted...

I don't think Dante has much time or even inclination to bust out Pandora from the beginning. If he ignores Dante, but you can call him Donte the demon killer, he's going to get grappled.

But he's gonna get grappled by his cutting wit first. One FUCK YOU! is all it's going to take for Dante to run down the tower and engage in melee.

Donte isn't 'FUCK YOU' central though. He's actually kinda gruff but chill otherwise. Plus, Temen-Ni-Gru is MASSIVE. Odds are that Donte is not gonna shout out at someone who's like, 500 yards up in the air or the like for no reason. Liquid's more likely to be the first person to get Dante's attention, and consequently get wrecked. The terrain advantage isn't to be discounted here considering just how silly Dante's arsenal is.
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Like for reference, this is what he's like against a boss that doesn't call his mother a whore:

https://youtu.be/F9atpt93yLU?t=57

He gives him the finger but otherwise it's puns all the way down - 'Put a spin on this', 'I'm taking you off the air', and for a finisher, 'Breaking news Bob! YOU'RE FIRED!'. Donte's more likely to just try scaling Temen-Ni-Gru than trying to get into an insult match with Dante. If anything what they might exchange is terrible one-liners.
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Will Dante really fight the helicopter by Pandora spam

I think he more likely bounds off the side of the Temen-Ni-Gru to style into the chopper, using Nevan while making some manner of crack about a chopper, then vaults off of it, slides down to engage the enemy team.

UNFORTUNATELY for Dante this is a supernatural double parameters helicopter that can already take like 20 rockets with normal parameters for some reason, so he can't just wreck it effortlessly. It probably takes some damage and Dante goes spilling downward, needing to kickflip off the side of the tower to regain his balance, falling right into the thick of the enemy team

OR he catches eye of that poseur down there, and heads straight in to teach that foul mouthed pup a lesson in style and how to rep that trenchcoat.
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Seriously, it cannot be understated just how much this team is gonna split up - you have KOS-MOS, Yu and Wrex landlocked and stuck wayyyyy out of effective range, except maybe Kossy, you have Liquid in the air, Donte, Bass and Kirby climbing up in their own particular ways...once you factor personalities in, it's pretty much not happening that the full team fights Dante at any point in time. It's gonna be something like a 1v2 or 1v3 at most at any given moment and he can easily clutch that.
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Lopen posted...

Will Dante really fight the helicopter by Pandora spam

I think he more likely bounds off the side of the Temen-Ni-Gru to style into the chopper, using Nevan while making some manner of crack about a chopper, then vaults off of it, slides down to engage the enemy team.

UNFORTUNATELY for Dante this is a supernatural double parameters helicopter that can already take like 20 rockets with normal parameters for some reason, so he can't just wreck it effortlessly. It probably takes some damage and Dante goes spilling downward, needing to kickflip off the side of the tower to regain his balance, falling right into the thick of the enemy team

OR he catches eye of that poseur down there, and heads straight in to teach that foul mouthed pup a lesson in style and how to rep that trenchcoat.

Realistically I think Dante just shoots Liquid to death with Ebony and Ivory cause that's the most 'Dante' thing to do, and surfs on Liquid's missiles, while Kirby, Bass and Donte climb up. At some point the Hind bites it, those three arrive and an actual fight breaks out. It's probably at that point that Dante gets serious, because Donte is legit enough to actually be worth fighting earnestly instead of completely clowning around - and once those three are dead, the others are not gonna last very long against him.
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Also any attempt for Dante to mega-style could get interrupted by Wrex's force push. I think the only way Dante has a chance here is if he's as played by my lame ass friend who never uses melee and just spams gunfire (guy was very good at that DMC game that doesn't exist). But in a pure range battle he loses to KOS-MOS anyway. As is I don't see why he doesn't just go down the tower right into the fray sooner rather than later. Dante literally has ran down that tower before, and he's not one to back down from a fight where he's outnumbered.
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Team Bass.

BUFFS and TEAMWORK. Like you could remove Liquid, Yu, and Kirby and it'd still be fairly favorable for this team.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Realistically I think Dante just shoots Liquid to death with Ebony and Ivory

Ebony and Ivory are M1911 pistols, which have an effective range of 50 meters, even assuming that Dante's modifications have doubled that the Hind D can more than easily outpace that.

Couple this with the HIND is heavily fortified against small and medium arms fire, able to shrug off .50 caliber shots even to its rotor blades and withstand 20-mm cannon hits thanks to ballistic-resistant windscreens and a titanium-wrapped cockpit tubs and the only way Dante is killing the DOUBLE PARAMETER Hind-D is through his swords or a really, really big and dedicated demonic blast through his pistols.

Let's see what the Hind-D can throw back at Dante. The Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-23, a is a twin-barreled 23 mm autocannon that fires 3600 rounds a minute and does not require any spool up time. Couple this with double parameters and this is firing 7200 rounds a minute, 120 rounds a second.

Along with this it's equipped with 57mm missile pods and The outer pylons are fitted with guided anti-tank missiles, this variety of missiles all can take Dante down with a single direct hit. And of course, considering the multiple missile pods and double parameters Liquid gets to go ham with that rate of fire, explosion radius and otherwise considering all of these are inherent to the hind.

The Hind D is not to be underestimated, especially when in the (double parameter) hands of Liquid, who took down two F16s which go at 1,350 mph (2,175 km/h) with primarily unguided weaponry while in a snow-storm.

Hell yeah Hind-D hype

You're my hero Alany
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Thanks to the Triforce of Courage, the Hind D's parameters have been doubled.

Perfect

liquid
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Lopen posted...

Will Dante really fight the helicopter by Pandora spam

honestly i'd assume yamato just splits it in two.


and the fact that this is only the second time yamato's mentioned is pretty pitiful.
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Wanglicious posted...

honestly i'd assume yamato just splits it in two.

Yamato certainly does. But using melee would leave him more open to someone like KOS-MOS as if he does the big iajutsu slash he'll most certainly get tagged by the immense firepower of the Hind D. He'd have to jump over and cut it to bits, which leaves him open as he can't maneuver fully in the air.

I don't think Dante's go to is gonna be Vergil's sword anymore than I think it's gonna be range cheese. Dude used it fairly sparingly while he had it in DMC4, and I see no reason why he's treating this fight like a life or death situation to begin with. He's probably gonna be starting with his showy stuff, which means Rebellion for prop shredder jokes, or Nevan if he wants to make chopper jokes
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The HIND-D is like the Cielo of helicopters
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Alany posted...

He'd have to jump over and cut it to bits

...he literally cut a building in half with it.
he wouldn't need to jump at all.

and in DMC4 Dante didn't have Yamato except for a very, very brief point in the game. he starts without it, Nero gets it, uses it for a while, Dante gets it to give to Nero and that's where it ends. in the very brief window when he does have access to Yamato he does use it a couple times.

as for what he'd do it greatly depends on what dante you got, DMC4 or DMC2. if we go strictly by canon, DMC2 would be the strongest Dante as it's the one that takes place last. his personality isn't showboaty or funny at all there. pretty much all business there.
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Alany posted...

Wanglicious posted...

honestly i'd assume yamato just splits it in two.

Yamato certainly does. But using melee would leave him more open to someone like KOS-MOS as if he does the big iajutsu slash he'll most certainly get tagged by the immense firepower of the Hind D. He'd have to jump over and cut it to bits, which leaves him open as he can't maneuver fully in the air.

Yamato cuts building-sized things from multiple city blocks away >_>

Effective range is not an issue for it.
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Also, worth emphasizing: Dante has timehax here. He can use Quicksilver Style or the Bangle of Time just fine to slow things around him to a crawl. He has a massive speed advantage on everyone once he starts taking things seriously.
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We said the Devil May Cry series, which to my knowledge does not have a "2"
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Also on the speed things

1. The stacking debuffs + buffs will probably put Dante as slower than the majority of the enemy team without timehax, which would frankly be acting as damage control at that point.
2. Donte's Devil Trigger while not having anti-gravity properties here does retain its time slowing abilities, so he can in fact keep up with this white haired wannabe.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Yamato cuts building-sized things from multiple city blocks away >_>

I'm not saying it isn't, I even mentioned that with the big iajutsu slash he used against the big gate in the series more than easily could destroy the Hind, my issue was that from what we've seen that takes build up. He won't get that build up when the entire upper half of the tower is getting destroyed.

Alany posted...

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Yamato cuts building-sized things from multiple city blocks away >_>

I'm not saying it isn't, I even mentioned that with the big iajutsu slash he used against the big gate in the series more than easily could destroy the Hind, my issue was that from what we've seen that takes build up. He won't get that build up when the entire upper half of the tower is getting destroyed.

By whom? Temen-Ni-Gru is the gateway to the demon realm. Even Sparda at his full power couldn't destroy it, only seal it, and that's a power level not even unnerfed Dante is allowed to have because he would absolutely solo these guys in a flash. Bits and pieces may fall down, maybe, but not the whole structure. It takes more power than any of these guys have to make that happen.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Temen-Ni-Gru is the gateway to the demon realm. Even Sparda at his full power couldn't destroy it,

Yeah, you've got a point. I was being hyperbolic there, although considering the damage it had suffered during the events of DMC3 I wouldn't be surprised if Temen-Ni-Gru's invulnerable parts are primarily just the chassis and the most bare bone parts.

i mean either A) he's super serious and gonna cut it from afar without issue and the rest of the team will know 'oh super serious guy is up there' (this is DMC2, what he should be since it's his canonical best), or B) he's just gonna jump on the hind, stab his way into it, take a seat, and bust out of it. either way the hind's irrelevant. if the personality is the one in B then you're basically asking him to play a game of "anything you can do i can do better" and that's where Pandora becomes relevant. if the personality's the one in A, well, he's busting that out early anyway. he's a boring guy in that one.
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Wanglicious posted...

B) he's just gonna jump on the hind, stab his way into it, take a seat, and bust out of it

Which considering the range it'll be at would mean he's likely out of range of jumping straight back to the tower. This puts him at the mercy of KOS-MOS, Wrex and Bass to bullet spam him in the air, where his maneuverability is weakest.

Which considering the range it'll be at would mean he's likely out of range of jumping straight back to the tower. This puts him at the mercy of KOS-MOS, Wrex and Bass to bullet spam him in the air, where his maneuverability is weakest.

Devil trigger Dante can fly. I don't mean airdash, I mean straight up fly. He shows that off in the DMC pachinko, I can provide videos if needed.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Devil trigger Dante can fly. I don't mean airdash, I mean straight up fly. He shows that off in the DMC pachinko, I can provide videos if needed.

Which means he's popping it to deal with one of his weakest opponents. He can't DT forever so any moment he spends flying to avoid bullets is another one where the 6vs1 is that much harder.

Which means he's popping it to deal with one of his weakest opponents. He can't DT forever so any moment he spends flying to avoid bullets is another one where the 6vs1 is that much harder.

He pretty much can. There's an entire level of DMC3 you spend in DT because Dante is carrying an artifact specifically meant to kill him, so he uses it to regentank through the constant drain.
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Alany posted...

This puts him at the mercy of KOS-MOS, Wrex and Bass to bullet spam him in the air, where his maneuverability is weakest.

in which case they now have to deal with him going fuck it and blitzing them in DT or they're going to be met with Pandora blasting them to high hell. if he legit goes DT ever then he ain't dodging, why would he? he's not getting hurt by anything there and is in blitz mode.
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and yeah, the Devil Trigger limitation is largely a gameplay one. it's his true form, it's like saying there's a limit to the DMC4 enemies have a time limit when they turn into demons. there isn't much reason to think that he's time-sensitive on that form.
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That's not really true. The artifact forces him to DT as it's killing him. Like it floods him with power or whatever and he can't turn DT off even if he wants to. Jester says "it exchanges the soul for power" or something like that. DT's limitation is definitely more than a gameplay thing and can't be done at all times. Even boss Vergil obeys limitations with his Devil Trigger, and it's only ever used sparingly in the cutscenes for the same reason.
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if there's a limit it definitely would lie more in the idea of sacrificing their humanity for power, sure. but it's not a limit you'd really see happen in a fight, certainly not something like it is in game where it's like they got 10 seconds or so. that's a state he should have no problem staying in for prolongued periods of time, he's been using it for 10 years ever since he first got it. they were young and it was the first time using their devil powers in DMC3 and he managed to keep it for a prolonged period of time. give him a decade to learn and you shouldn't see any issue with having it last all fight if he wanted to. it's not like anybody's gonna be retreating once the fight's under way, they're gonna have to deal with him in that state as he's in full blitz mode. he doesn't play at all in that state either: you wouldn't have any jokes, snark, or anything short of just going for the kill.
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No I meant Jester said that about the artifact Kanz is talking about. It's literally sucking his soul out (in a "I'm draining your lifeforce" way not a "you're losing your humanity oh noo" way) and forcing him to DT as it does so. He's not DTing to "regen tank it." In fact you don't even regen in that mission because of DT, you need to kill things for health pickups

DT in fights used recklessly seems more like a thing that causes fatigue if used excessively so there's a certain recharge period to it. It's generally only used in desperate situations in cutscenes, either on pure reflex or because the dude just got desperate and was willing to accept any fatigue cost later.
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When I said he DTs to tank it with regen, I mean that the artifact pushes Dante's regen to its limits - such that even though DT regeneration and resistance can slow it down, it can't fully stop it from killing him. Which yeah, wasn't too clear, but the point is there's reason to believe he can DT pretty much freely and just chooses not to because Dante rarely takes things seriously unless he really is pissed off or forced to.
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You're still misrepresenting it. The artifact is literally making him DT. It's not "oh crap this is killing me I'd better DT" and still failing to tank it-- it is in fact that the artifact is giving him the power to DT infinitely, at the price of draining his life. The fact that the only time he does that is when in possession of an artifact known to give extra power at cost should be a hint that he can't just do it infinitely at his whim, not evidence that he can.
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Lopen posted...

It's generally only used in desperate situations in cutscenes, either on pure reflex or because the dude just got desperate.

pure reflex - yes.
dude got desperate - no.

at least, not Dante at this point.
despite everything that went down in 4, the only time DT is ever remotely used in cutscenes is when Nero's punching him in the face and he's auto-regening.

the rest just didn't warrant it. there's a huge improvement in his devil powers by then too, easiest reference point is him shrugging off getting stabbed through the chest in 4, whereas in 3 that was fatal and he needed DT to survive. that is one of the problems with Dante really, that we don't actually know what his power level actually is in the 4th game since he never is actually challenged. the idea that he'd use it recklessly also doesn't make sense since if he's using it, that ain't reckless, that's just not playing around anymore and ending things quickly.

honestly if you're looking for an idea of where he's at by 4 it's... probably going to be Pachinko (since apparently that counts here) as that did change some cutscenes to have more DT used and more powers shown.


or we can go to 2.
which isn't very good either mind you but hey.
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For what it's worth it's not really an established fact that he CAN'T do it infinitely but I think there are a lot less plot holes if you assume he can't. "He wasn't challenged" isn't quite good enough, cause there are a lot of situations where he is clearly challenged and still isn't doing it. It's only when he's pretty much at the brink of death when he's doing it in cutscenes, pretty much ever. Even when like, he's fighting in situations where he's pretty much serious, and his friends are at risk, and he's cutting it rather close. Dante's really carefree in say, 70% of the games, but he's got a pretty big selection of fights he's taking seriously, in all of the games, and yeah, you never see him just busting out DT without a major reason for it. Vergil following pretty much the exact same mechanics as an enemy as the player does is a hint too.

That and, the artifact Kanzaris is referring to giving Dante infinite DT as part of the power of the artifact, well, it probably means something. Otherwise it's not really giving Dante any power-- just draining his life to let Dante do something... he can apparently already do?
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Lopen posted...

You're still misrepresenting it. The artifact is literally making him DT. It's not "oh crap this is killing me I'd better DT" and still failing to tank it-- it is in fact that the artifact is giving him the power to DT infinitely, at the price of draining his life. The fact that the only time he does that is when in possession of an artifact known to give extra power at cost should be a hint that he can't just do it infinitely at his whim, not evidence that he can.

honestly i think you're misrepresenting him as well here.
generally i think the best idea for where he's at with DT is that it's just another power up transformation. sure there's a technical time limit on those but it's not really something that's going to be relevant over the course of this fight. like yeah, Goku can turn SSB for a prolonged period of time but if this were in an action game or something it'd be a lot more temporary. basically it's typical shounen powerup where no, you don't expect them to be able to sleep in that form or something (at first) but that's what their true power really is. and like typical shounen powerups go, through a mix of time, experience, and usage of power, the ability to stay in that state will grow drastically, as will the power gained from it and the fighter's comfort zone with it.
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Lopen posted...

"He wasn't challenged" isn't quite good enough, cause there are a lot of situations where he is clearly challenged and still isn't doing it.

like what?
seriously, the only time he's actually pushed back in DMC4 is against Savior, the final boss. and for that enemy he's mostly waiting for Nero to figure things out on the inside. he doesn't have a problem avoiding getting hit, he's never tagged by him or the demons, he just plain doesn't need to use it at that point and time. if Nero were to fail somehow, then he'd use it. there really isn't any other theory to use for DMC4 and his lack of usage.

unless you go to Pachinko. which does use it for some more scenes. but i think you're avoiding that more than DMC2.
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Classic Dante

Terrain plus half of Team Donte being pompous, antisocial dicks are what sell it to me. If they all fought together and optimally at the right distance, they could put up a good fight... but that ain't happening here.
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