Current Events > France to make vaccinations for children mandatory in 2018

(+) Yeah! (+)

Prime minister Edouard Philippe laid out the government's plans for France in a speech in front of the French parliament on Tuesday.

The price of cigarettes will steadily rise to €10

This is part of the government's battle against tabacco. The current price of a packet of cigarettes in France is €7.

Health minister Agnès Buzyn said that her aim is "for the children born today to be France's first generation of non-smokers."

Vaccines for children will be obligatory

Highlighting the fact that some diseases "have returned to France", Philippe said that vaccines for young children that are unanimously recommended by health authorities will become obligatory from 2018. The Local has already reported that this was a priority for the French Health Minister.

Reimbursement of glasses, dental healthcare and hearing aids

The prime minister has said that from now until the end of the five-year term, French people will no longer pay for glasses, dental healthcare and hearing aids.

The state of emergency will end on November 1st

Echoing the words of France's new president, Emmanuel Macron, the prime minister said in his speech that the state of emergency will come to an end on November 1st and at the same time a new raft of anti-terrorism laws will be introduced.

National Service

The government will introduce a new national service for young people, as President Emmanuel Macron had promised during his election campaign. The government will reflect on the form the new national service will take over the coming months.

Environment

As part of a pledge to become carbon neutral by 2050 France will no longer give licenses for oil and gas exploration. And 100 percent of plastic will be recycled in France by 2025.

Employee contributions to be cut for low paid workers

Deductions taken from the lowest paid workers will be cut with the aim of giving those on the minimum wage (Around €1,480 a month) greater spending power. Philippe said the cut would save those on the minimum wage €250 a year.

France to cut corporate tax to 25 percent by 2022

The French government will progressively slash corporate tax from 33.3 percent to 25 percent by 2022. Businesses must want to set up and develop on our territory rather than elsewhere," Philippe told parliament, adding the corporate tax cut will bring France "in line with the European average".

Universal access to high-speed internet from 2022

Philippe promised that access to high-speed internet would be guaranteed across the whole of France by the end of his five-year term.

Some social benefits to increase

The prime minister laid out plans to increase benefits for disabled adults and raise the minimum benefit for the elderly from 2018.

France to launch 50-bn-euro investment plan

France will launch "a grand investment plan" worth 50 billion euros ($56.7 billion) in areas including the environment, health, agriculture and transport. stressing the importance of "investing in the sectors of the future", Philippe told parliament that the package would also focus on developing skills.

Defense budget will amount to 2 percent of GDP

France's defense budget will be brought to 2 percent of the country's GDP.

Full Article:https://www.thelocal.fr/20170704/obligatory-vaccinations-for-kids-cigarettes-at-10-what-changes-are-planned-for-france


CE should be happy. I made a topic about mandatory vaccines a while back and nearly all of CE universially supported it. But France's Christians won't be happy.
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I like how this exploded on the Politics board but no one on CE cares
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UnfairRepresent posted...

I like how this exploded on the Politics board but no one on CE cares

vaccine's aren't bad they prevent diseases from happening.
its those nuts who think vaccines cause things to happen, they're making the issue worse.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

I like how this exploded on the Politics board but no one on CE cares

Aside from a few nutjobs I think this is one issue most of CE agrees on
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Good
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Good, on the vaccination part at least. They really should be mandatory (save for medical reasons) - but if so, provided by the government of course.
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kingdrake2 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

I like how this exploded on the Politics board but no one on CE cares

vaccine's aren't bad they prevent diseases from happening.
its those nuts who think vaccines cause things to happen, they're making the issue worse.

Well the big argument on the politics board is about rights violation.

Big government doing things to children's bodies without their or the parents consent.
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Fuck the government if they think forcefully injecting children with anything is their right. I don't care about the benefits. France is a joke country anyway.
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RebelElite791 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

I like how this exploded on the Politics board but no one on CE cares

Aside from a few nutjobs I think this is one issue most of CE agrees on

Pretty sure it's more the fact that much more people have him on ignore here.
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gotta put them aluminum, msg, formaldehyde and mercury in them people immediately!
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OrtegaTron posted...

Fuck the government if they think forcefully injecting children with anything is their right. I don't care about the benefits. France is a joke country anyway.

You are putting both your own child at risk, as well as other people over something with no actual evidence. You are potentially allowing your child to be maimed or die from an easily curable disease over believing a discredited doctor and a bunch of idiots. It is in everyone's interest for people to be immunised.

Many people rely on others being immunised, as they can't themselves for medical reasons and if more people are potential carriers, it increases the chance they can catch the disease. Heck, we've had rising cases across the western world of things that shouldn't even exist save for negligible cases. Anti vaxxers are simply harming everyone and shouldn't be given the time of day.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

kingdrake2 posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

I like how this exploded on the Politics board but no one on CE cares

vaccine's aren't bad they prevent diseases from happening.
its those nuts who think vaccines cause things to happen, they're making the issue worse.

Well the big argument on the politics board is about rights violation.

Big government doing things to children's bodies without their or the parents consent.

Screw that, the kid better be vaccinated if they are going to a public school or a public setting. It is for their own good and every other child around them. There are children who for medical reasons can not actually get vaccinations, they are however protected if everyone else around them has been vaccinated.
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Good. Make the treatment for any desease easily prevented by vaccination extremely expensive, while they're at it.
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LordFarquad1312 posted...

Good. Make the treatment for any desease easily prevented by vaccination extremely expensive, while they're at it.

I mean, most western countries have vaccinations provided free. I'm sure the government isn't going to seek out the most expensive option for it to end up paying (maybe)
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Funkydog posted...

I mean, most western countries have vaccinations provided free. I'm sure the government isn't going to seek out the most expensive option for it to end up paying (maybe)

I meant it in the sense that any parent idiotic enough to forego vaccination should pay for their stupidity, literally, baring exceptional cases.
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Good. Same should be done in the US with harsh punishments for those against it.
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This is a bad solution to the problem. In fact, I'd say it's more morally repugnant than the antivaxxer who endangers others with his ignorance. It sets a disturbing precedent.

Instead, the government should strongly incentivize vaccines by making public / social services contingent upon them. Make it so costly to not get vaccinated that antivaxxer parents are forced to examine their beliefs and make a choice to either willingly join modern civilization or effectively exile themselves from society.

But it must remain a voluntary decision at its core.
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LordFarquad1312 posted...

Funkydog posted...

I mean, most western countries have vaccinations provided free. I'm sure the government isn't going to seek out the most expensive option for it to end up paying (maybe)

I meant it in the sense that any parent idiotic enough to forego vaccination should pay for their stupidity, literally, baring exceptional cases.

Not trying to defend the idiots, but what about those kids who can't get vaccinated like those allergic to the ingredients? Should their parents be punished too?
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LordFarquad1312 posted...

Funkydog posted...

I mean, most western countries have vaccinations provided free. I'm sure the government isn't going to seek out the most expensive option for it to end up paying (maybe)

I meant it in the sense that any parent idiotic enough to forego vaccination should pay for their stupidity, literally, baring exceptional cases.

Why should the child suffer for the parents idiocy though?
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Duncanwii posted...

Not trying to defend the idiots, but what about those kids who can't get vaccinated like those allergic to the ingredients? Should their parents be punished too?

baring exceptional cases
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the anti vaccination movement was never about questioning the effectiveness of a vaccine to begin with - it was about particular vaccines being spiked with heavy metals and other toxins to damage the health of people - in which evidence of this came out and media went into cover up spin mode, payed by big pharma, to cover up the scandal.
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myzz7 posted...

the anti vaccination movement was never about questioning the effectiveness of a vaccine to begin with - it was about particular vaccines being spiked with heavy metals and other toxins to damage the health of people - in which evidence of this came out and media went into cover up spin mode, payed by big pharma, to cover up the scandal.

There was zero evidence. The "Doctor" who claimed it has since had his medical license removed and has caused immense harm for his idiocy.
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Funkydog posted...

myzz7 posted...

the anti vaccination movement was never about questioning the effectiveness of a vaccine to begin with - it was about particular vaccines being spiked with heavy metals and other toxins to damage the health of people - in which evidence of this came out and media went into cover up spin mode, payed by big pharma, to cover up the scandal.

There was zero evidence. The "Doctor" who claimed it has since had his medical license removed and has caused immense harm for his idiocy.

the cdc itself says they put the ingredients as stabilizers and to keep the vaccines clean in the manufacturing process, there are no hokey pokey loony conspiracy theories.
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anti vaxxers need to disappear

Awesome posted...

the cdc itself says they put the ingredients as stabilizers and to keep the vaccines clean in the manufacturing process, there are no hokey pokey loony conspiracy theories.

Exactly. And the Doctor who made the claims was almost certainly aware of this, but still persists with his claim to this day despite the GMC throwing him off the UK Medical Register. It was even later reported he falsified his evidence I believe.
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Would never happen in the U.S. The outrage would be enormous.
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Good.

Fuck antivaxxers.
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Iodine posted...

Would never happen in the U.S. The outrage would be enormous.

It should and it will if the government is really serious about keeping the public safe.
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Funkydog posted...

Awesome posted...

the cdc itself says they put the ingredients as stabilizers and to keep the vaccines clean in the manufacturing process, there are no hokey pokey loony conspiracy theories.

Exactly. And the Doctor who made the claims was almost certainly aware of this, but still persists with his claim to this day despite the GMC throwing him off the UK Medical Register. It was even later reported he falsified his evidence I believe.

no i meant that these vaccines do mess you up, i never want to get a flu shot again.
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Funkydog posted...

Awesome posted...

the cdc itself says they put the ingredients as stabilizers and to keep the vaccines clean in the manufacturing process, there are no hokey pokey loony conspiracy theories.

Exactly. And the Doctor who made the claims was almost certainly aware of this, but still persists with his claim to this day despite the GMC throwing him off the UK Medical Register. It was even later reported he falsified his evidence I believe.

so its not big pharma its a dirty doc

Flermin posted...

so its not big pharma its a dirty doc

Andrew Wakefield, yes. A disgusting human being.
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Polycosm posted...

But it must remain a voluntary decision at its core.

Why?

Awesome posted...

no i meant that these vaccines do mess you up, i never want to get a flu shot again.

Some vaccines will make you feel a bit under the weather, yes. They outright tell you this though and don't hide it.

It happens in a very minor amount of cases and even then is likely much less severe than actual flu.
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Awesome posted...

Funkydog posted...

Awesome posted...

the cdc itself says they put the ingredients as stabilizers and to keep the vaccines clean in the manufacturing process, there are no hokey pokey loony conspiracy theories.

Exactly. And the Doctor who made the claims was almost certainly aware of this, but still persists with his claim to this day despite the GMC throwing him off the UK Medical Register. It was even later reported he falsified his evidence I believe.

no i meant that these vaccines do mess you up, i never want to get a flu shot again.

It's like they're shooting up a virus into your body and your immune system reacts to it.
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Circumcision should be mandatory as well.

sktgamer_13dude posted...

It's like they're shooting up a virus into your body and your immune system reacts to it.

those bastards!

The most important vaccinations should be mandatory.

Flu shots only mandatory for healthcare workers and those that work with children or elderly people.
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Nice they are going to have a corporate tax rate 10% lower than the US
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDjz5qHIzsc
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JE19426 posted...

Polycosm posted...

But it must remain a voluntary decision at its core.

Why?

By default, I believe that an individual should have autonomy over his or her own body. It's immoral for the government to to forcibly inject chemicals into your body. It violates the non-aggression principle, to start with.

Admittedly, the NAP alone doesn't sufficiently handle all cases of child neglect. Obviously if a parent is starving his child then it's ethical for the government to intervene, separate the parent and offer the child food and water. However, force-feeding is another thing entirely (i.e. a form of torture which was inflicted on suffragettes, and more recently used in Guantanamo Bay).

I'm okay with governments exerting extreme social and economic pressures on antivaxxers and cutting them off from access to public services and spaces. I'm not okay with violating the sanctity of the individual in order to accomplish the end goal.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

France to cut corporate tax to 25 percent by 2022

The French government will progressively slash corporate tax from 33.3 percent to 25 percent by 2022. Businesses must want to set up and develop on our territory rather than elsewhere," Philippe told parliament, adding the corporate tax cut will bring France "in line with the European average".

At least they're doing something right.

Polycosm posted...

I'm okay with governments exerting extreme social and economic pressures on antivaxxers and cutting them off from access to public services and spaces. I'm not okay with violating the sanctity of the individual in order to accomplish the end goal.

Are you also okay with the government no longer taxing them, then? Public services are either public or they're not. It'd be unfair to have means testing for public services that we all need.

Transcendentia posted...

Polycosm posted...

I'm okay with governments exerting extreme social and economic pressures on antivaxxers and cutting them off from access to public services and spaces. I'm not okay with violating the sanctity of the individual in order to accomplish the end goal.

Are you also okay with the government no longer taxing them, then? Public services are either public or they're not. It'd be unfair to have means testing for public services that we all need.

I haven't given a lot of thought to the details, to be honest. I don't think they should pay for services which don't benefit them. Services which do confer an indirect benefit, but which a family isn't able to directly participate in, would maybe be discounted. Other services (roads, public utilities) where the family doesn't come into physical contact with others and doesn't put others at risk would continue to be made available and paid for as normal.

The calculation would be complicated and we'd have to hash out different answers for different countries. Ideally, tax codes shouldn't be as complicated as they are, in which case I could give you a much simpler, ideologically pure answer... but we've inherited messy systems which require messy, imperfect answers.

Still, I'll always take the solution that maximizes freedom over the one which doesn't, even if it isn't perfect.
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Good. For their health and for their wallets.
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Polycosm posted...

Transcendentia posted...

Polycosm posted...

I'm okay with governments exerting extreme social and economic pressures on antivaxxers and cutting them off from access to public services and spaces. I'm not okay with violating the sanctity of the individual in order to accomplish the end goal.

Are you also okay with the government no longer taxing them, then? Public services are either public or they're not. It'd be unfair to have means testing for public services that we all need.

I haven't given a lot of thought to the details, to be honest. I don't think they should pay for services which don't benefit them. Services which do confer an indirect benefit, but which a family isn't able to directly participate in, would maybe be discounted. Other services (roads, public utilities) where the family doesn't come into physical contact with others and doesn't put others at risk would continue to be made available and paid for as normal.

The calculation would be complicated and we'd have to hash out different answers for different countries. Ideally, tax codes shouldn't be as complicated as they are, in which case I could give you a much simpler, ideologically pure answer... but we've inherited messy systems which require messy, imperfect answers.

Still, I'll always take the solution that maximizes freedom over the one which doesn't, even if it isn't perfect.

In any case, it's pretty insane to treat unvaccinated people as some kind of leper. They don't need a scarlet letter or to be treated as lepers, dude. Nothing's going to happen just because you walk next to a person who was not vaccinated. I say this as someone who thinks anti-vaxxers are off their rockers.

Polycosm posted...

By default, I believe that an individual should have autonomy over his or her own body. It's immoral for the government to to forcibly inject chemicals into your body. It violates the non-aggression principle, to start with.

Children don't have autonomy over their bodies.

I'm just happy smallpox was wiped out before vaccine hysteria became so common place.
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UnfairRepresent posted...

The prime minister has said that from now until the end of the five-year term, French people will no longer pay for glasses, dental healthcare and hearing aids.

That's going to be fun to watch.

Meanwhile, it's still unsafe to go to a public event. "But we are being progressive!"
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