Current Events > Bought a new AK today.

(+) Yeah! (+)

RebelElite791 posted...

This is how one dies a virgin.

You're obsessed with Pokemon and Star Wars and yet are insulting a gun owner? Just because he owns guns doesn't mean he's gonna die a virgin, broseph.

RebelElite791 posted...

Crazyman93 posted...

And here's the resident chronically constipated shitposter to tell people who never asked what he thinks.

Don't be so hard on yourself dude.

Says the guy who comes in throwing shitposts around. Bye now.
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RebelElite791 posted...

This is how one dies a virgin.

really? i dont support guns, but you have to act like a literal 10 year old?
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Transcendentia posted...

RebelElite791 posted...

This is how one dies a virgin.

You're obsessed with Pokemon and Star Wars and yet are insulting a gun owner? Just because he owns guns doesn't mean he's gonna die a virgin, broseph.

Wait I'm obsessed with Pokemon?

Star Wars hell yeah, but I'm lost on that one.

Owning guns, no. Owning 18 AKs, yeah probably lol.
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RebelElite791 posted...

Transcendentia posted...

RebelElite791 posted...

This is how one dies a virgin.

You're obsessed with Pokemon and Star Wars and yet are insulting a gun owner? Just because he owns guns doesn't mean he's gonna die a virgin, broseph.

Wait I'm obsessed with Pokemon?

Star Wars hell yeah, but I'm lost on that one.

Owning guns, no. Owning 18 AKs, yeah probably lol.

So if someone is a gun collector and hobbyist, they're going to die a virgin? How did you decide 18 firearms is the magical number? You're making no sense.

When you own more guns than the local rednecks, and all of a single type, yeah that's virgin territory. Sorry boo.
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Rebel shitposting again.

Irony is while TC's being the cool guy about it, Rebel's acting like a bitter virgin himself.
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Rebel ruins everything he touches, truly the mark of a vegan.
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Monday posted...

Rebel ruins everything he touches, truly the mark of a vegan.

2spoopy
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Ignore Rebel. He's the shittiest of the shit posters, and this is coming from a major shit poster.

He's just projecting again.

Anyway, that's an awesome looking gun TC. I don't really know anything about guns, but I am going to a shooting range tomorrow with a friend for the first time ever. What would be a good starter gun to shoot?
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You really are extremely out of touch and I get the impression you've probably never met many people who are gun collectors. Also, that you use "Virgin" as in insult is pretty telling of your insecurities. Why don't you leave so other people can be happy and share our hobby without you around?
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RebelElite791 posted...

When you own more guns than the local rednecks, and all of a single type, yeah that's virgin territory. Sorry boo.

And how did you come to that conclusion? Did it say something like that in your embossed World of Warcraft manual? Or is it stitched on your Star Wars pillow?

Pogo_Marimo posted...

and I get the impression you've probably never met many people who are gun collectors

And thank god for that.

Transcendentia posted...

And how did you come to that conclusion? Did it say something like that in your embossed World of Warcraft manual? Or is it stitched on your Star Wars pillow?

The only WoW manual I own is the one that came with my battle chest 10 years ago =[

Whose alt is this btw
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545x39 posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

Have you used the M16?

Like a Legit full auto M16? Nah. I do have an M16A1 clone (pictured) and several AR carbine rifles.

i have that record on vinyl too wtf

RebelElite791 posted...

The only WoW manual I own is the one that came with my battle chest 10 years ago =[

Whose alt is this btw

I'm the fucking Proudclad.

Transcendentia posted...

RebelElite791 posted...

The only WoW manual I own is the one that came with my battle chest 10 years ago =[

Whose alt is this btw

I'm the fucking Proudclad.

I'm hurt, I thought you knew me better.
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RebelElite791 posted...

Transcendentia posted...

RebelElite791 posted...

The only WoW manual I own is the one that came with my battle chest 10 years ago =[

Whose alt is this btw

I'm the fucking Proudclad.

I'm hurt, I thought you knew me better.

FFFFFF make up sex after watching Dunkirk is the only solution

NOM posted...

Anyway, that's an awesome looking gun TC. I don't really know anything about guns, but I am going to a shooting range tomorrow with a friend for the first time ever. What would be a good starter gun to shoot?

Any gun chambered in .22lr. So long as it's a low recoil round then it would be good though. Otherwise you might develop a flinch.
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545x39 posted...

NOM posted...

Anyway, that's an awesome looking gun TC. I don't really know anything about guns, but I am going to a shooting range tomorrow with a friend for the first time ever. What would be a good starter gun to shoot?

Any gun chambered in .22lr. So long as it's a low recoil round then it would be good though. Otherwise you might develop a flinch.

Yeah, if you're an adult, a 10/22 is a pretty good starter. Or... What's Ruger's Bolt action .22? The 77/22? Or 10/77?
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Crazyman93 posted...

Yeah, if you're an adult, a 10/22 is a pretty good starter. Or... What's Ruger's Bolt action .22? The 77/22? Or 10/77?

No idea what their bolt action is.

AlternativeFAQS posted...

i have that record on vinyl too wtf

Good tunes man.
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545x39 posted...

No idea what their bolt action is.

I looked it up, it's their 77 Series. So 77/22. The pattern is also availbile in 17 Hornet, 17WSM, .357, and .44
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Flermin posted...

did you have to use it? was it a good day?

Second post wins again
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On topic, do you find the stockless AKs unruly as I think they are? I just don't see many people being precise with them.
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sigh... americans and their guns. ridiculous

Kurumiee posted...

sigh... americans and their guns. ridiculous

lmfao what does it feel like to lack the right to self defense in your country?

What is your opinion on the SA80 (and its variants), TC?


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3_1_1_FTW posted...

What is your opinion on the SA80 (and its variants), TC?

It's one of the first generation of Bullpups.

It's nice as a historical example, but there are better Bullpups out there.

Keltec RDB is a better designed Bullpup due to it being newer and learning from the failures of older Bullpups.
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Keltec RDB is a better designed Bullpup due to it being newer and learning from the failures of older Bullpups.

I actually got to handle the RDB for a bit, and the magazine release is the why.jpg of the gun world.

It's as unnerving as it is clever.
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Malcrasternus posted...

I actually got to handle the RDB for a bit, and the magazine release is the why.jpg of the gun world.

It's as unnerving as it is clever.

Because they wanted to copy the Tavor's magazine release.
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I'm looking at making AR barrels, and my main focus is different material use. High end barrels for the AR platform barely get into the 400 stainless steel territory, and I want to prototype exotic alloy steels, mainly Duplex steel and Inconel. I've machined both of these metals pretty frequently in the past, so I know the processes and tools needed.

The idea is to come up with a barrel that has the full durability of being chrome-lined, and the accuracy of one that isn't.
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booboy posted...

I'm looking at making AR barrels, and my main focus is different material use. High end barrels for the AR platform barely get into the 400 stainless steel territory, and I want to prototype exotic alloy steels, mainly Duplex steel and Inconel. I've machined both of these metals pretty frequently in the past, so I know the processes and tools needed.

The idea is to come up with a barrel that has the full durability of being chrome-lined, and the accuracy of one that isn't.

There is a Ultimate Barrel that I want somebody to make:
It has to have a Composite Barrel where the polymer transfers the heat out from the inner metal barrel to the outter aluminium sleeve.
https://www.dracosbarrels.com/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/01/23/falkor-defense-dracos-composite-barrel-system-firearms-shot-2017/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1tX3u6IY6c

The inner Barrel needs to be:
Progressively Fluted Polygonal Barrels to have a consistent thickness no matter where you are along the barrel
Make sure the final Fluted Polygonal Barrel will match the weight of the original pencil thin barrel
Verify in CAD / CAM first before running it on the CNC machine.
This should give you superior barrel that is more rigid than the original pencil barrel of the same weight with better cooling properties.

As far as the rifling profile:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/02/06/sabattis-multi-radial-rifling/
It needs to have Sabatti's Multi Radial Rifling profile instead of a traditional Octagon based Polygonal Rifling
Of course use Progressive Rifling instead of Constant Twist

DO NOT tap for gas port (That also saves you a critical step in manufacturing the barrel)

I want to use a ArmsTech Gas Trap System mounted on the threading of the muzzle.
http://www.armstechltd.com/products.php?id=compak16
http://www.armstechltd.com/faq.php
The Adiabetic Cooling + Sending Gas back along the Gas Pipe would be my preferred gas system.

Then shove the barrel in the Composite Sleeve with polymer to transfer heat out.

That should be the "Ultimate Barrel" using the best pieces of technology that is available on the market.
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Because they wanted to copy the Tavor's magazine release.

The only similarity is the location.



But on my Tavor at least, the mechanism was mostly internal, save for the actual plate that locked onto the magazine.

On the RDB it's mostly external, and just one big piece of flat metal wire that falls into a groove alongside the body of the rifle. Felt very flimsy, and immediately turned me off of getting one.
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Malcrasternus posted...

But on my Tavor at least, the mechanism was mostly internal, save for the actual plate that locked onto the magazine.

On the RDB it's mostly external, and just one big piece of flat metal wire that falls into a groove alongside the body of the rifle. Felt very flimsy, and immediately turned me off of getting one.

I Blame Kelgren, the founder / chief designer of the RDB.

He thought it was a good idea.

https://www.keltecweapons.com/rifles/rdb-s

I personally like the feel of this one a little bit more.
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As a whole, I liked the logic and feel of the RDB, but eh. . .


Though, like a hopeless romantic, I still want to try out the MDR(whenever that stops being a unicorn), and whatever Radom's factory was/is trying to make.
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Malcrasternus posted...

As a whole, I liked the logic and feel of the RDB, but eh. . .


Though, like a hopeless romantic, I still want to try out the MDR(whenever that stops being a unicorn), and whatever Radom's factory was/is trying to make.

Yeah, it feels like another "Duke Nukem 3D" that will take forever to come out.
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thompsontalker7 posted...

On topic, do you find the stockless AKs unruly as I think they are? I just don't see many people being precise with them.

They are purely range toys. Using a sling for support makes them a little more manageable. I got my three with intentions on SBR'ing them.

3_1_1_FTW posted...

What is your opinion on the SA80 (and its variants), TC?

I have no opinions on it, I know very little about it.
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

booboy posted...

I'm looking at making AR barrels, and my main focus is different material use. High end barrels for the AR platform barely get into the 400 stainless steel territory, and I want to prototype exotic alloy steels, mainly Duplex steel and Inconel. I've machined both of these metals pretty frequently in the past, so I know the processes and tools needed.

The idea is to come up with a barrel that has the full durability of being chrome-lined, and the accuracy of one that isn't.

There is a Ultimate Barrel that I want somebody to make:
It has to have a Composite Barrel where the polymer transfers the heat out from the inner metal barrel to the outter aluminium sleeve.
https://www.dracosbarrels.com/
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/01/23/falkor-defense-dracos-composite-barrel-system-firearms-shot-2017/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1tX3u6IY6c

The inner Barrel needs to be:
Progressively Fluted Polygonal Barrels to have a consistent thickness no matter where you are along the barrel
Make sure the final Fluted Polygonal Barrel will match the weight of the original pencil thin barrel
Verify in CAD / CAM first before running it on the CNC machine.
This should give you superior barrel that is more rigid than the original pencil barrel of the same weight with better cooling properties.

As far as the rifling profile:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/02/06/sabattis-multi-radial-rifling/
It needs to have Sabatti's Multi Radial Rifling profile instead of a traditional Octagon based Polygonal Rifling
Of course use Progressive Rifling instead of Constant Twist

DO NOT tap for gas port (That also saves you a critical step in manufacturing the barrel)

I want to use a ArmsTech Gas Trap System mounted on the threading of the muzzle.
http://www.armstechltd.com/products.php?id=compak16
http://www.armstechltd.com/faq.php
The Adiabetic Cooling + Sending Gas back along the Gas Pipe would be my preferred gas system.

Then shove the barrel in the Composite Sleeve with polymer to transfer heat out.

That should be the "Ultimate Barrel" using the best pieces of technology that is available on the market.

The concept is a righteous feat of engineering, but all that work would still probably only result in a modest performance increase from a standard free-floated quality AR barrel.
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Pogo_Marimo posted...

The concept is a righteous feat of engineering, but all that work would still probably only result in a modest performance increase from a standard free-floated quality AR barrel.

The tighter the MoA level of accuracy, you have to go through that much more engineering to achieve it.

That's just a fact of reality.

I'm only expecting 1/3 - 1/4 MoA
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Pogo_Marimo posted...

The concept is a righteous feat of engineering, but all that work would still probably only result in a modest performance increase from a standard free-floated quality AR barrel.

The tighter the MoA level of accuracy, you have to go through that much more engineering to achieve it.

That's just a fact of reality.

I'm only expecting 1/3 - 1/4 MoA

Yup. It's interesting from a "Can it be done?" perspective, as well as competitive stuff like 3-gun. Obviously not practical for most uses though.
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Pogo_Marimo posted...

Yup. It's interesting from a "Can it be done?" perspective, as well as competitive stuff like 3-gun. Obviously not practical for most uses though.

It's only useful on Semi-Auto / Full Auto rifles who need superior accuracy.

Realistically the level of Barrel tech in current day military should have a minimum accuracy of 1 MoA for infantry barrels and tighter groups than that for more specialized roles like DMR / Sniper roles.
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Nah. Realistically most grunts are not proficient enough to make use of a gun capable of shooting 1 MoA beyond 200 yards, and most guns are not currently outfitted with optics to give a soldier the sight clarity needed to effectively use a rifle past 200 yards. A 3 MoA gun is more than surficient to allow soldiers to engage targets without over-spending on what is comparatively a low-priority weapon on a modern battlefield (Coincidentally, most modern standard issue rifles are spec'd for either sub-4 or sub-3 MoA). Obviously a DMR role with a good optic could use a 2 MoA gun with great effect, and a sniper role likewise could mandate a need for a 1 MoA gun (7 inches of dispersion at 700 yards could still mean the difference between a hit or miss on a perfectly sighted target). But chasing 1 MoA for a standard infantry rifle is like chasing unicorns to mount your knights when you've got a few dozen war horses in the stable.
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Pogo_Marimo posted...

Nah. Realistically most grunts are not proficient enough to make use of a gun capable of shooting 1 MoA beyond 200 yards, and most guns are not currently outfitted with optics to give a soldier the sight clarity needed to effectively use a rifle past 200 yards. A 3 MoA gun is more than surficient to allow soldiers to engage targets without over-spending on what is comparatively a low-priority weapon on a modern battlefield (Coincidentally, most modern standard issue rifles are spec'd for either sub-4 or sub-3 MoA). Obviously a DMR role with a good optic could use a 2 MoA gun with great effect, and a sniper role likewise could mandate a need for a 1 MoA gun (7 inches of dispersion at 700 yards could still mean the difference between a hit or miss on a perfectly sighted target). But chasing 1 MoA for a standard infantry rifle is like chasing unicorns to mount your knights when you've got a few dozen war horses in the stable.

Actually Battle Optics for basic infantry is becoming common.

And simpler to learn Reticle Systems are becoming way more common.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/08/jeremy-s/gear-review-primary-arms-1-6x-acss-reticle-scope/

The ACSS Reticle is so simple to learn, I figured it out in less than 2 minutes of reading the instructions and seeing pictures.

It lets average people shoot accurately enough at range.
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I do think combat optics for all frontline troops will be the next big advance for infantry small arms (Something like 2-2.5X non-variable), but I don't think that will be enough to warrant DMR-level accuracy across the board (Nor would we need it).
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Pogo_Marimo posted...

I do think combat optics for all frontline troops will be the next big advance for infantry small arms (Something like 2-2.5X non-variable), but I don't think that will be enough to warrant DMR-level accuracy across the board (Nor would we need it).

The AR-15 platform was designed to be able to hit out to 600 yards.

But most people can't do that with Iron Sights consistently.

Simple Fixed Power Magnification Optics like the Elcan Specter line can do the job given the right magnification and reticle.
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I can't use any scope or binoculars of any kind to save my life, so >200 yards is out of the picture for me.
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KamenRiderBlade posted...

Pogo_Marimo posted...

I do think combat optics for all frontline troops will be the next big advance for infantry small arms (Something like 2-2.5X non-variable), but I don't think that will be enough to warrant DMR-level accuracy across the board (Nor would we need it).

The AR-15 platform was designed to be able to hit out to 600 yards.

But most people can't do that with Iron Sights consistently.

Simple Fixed Power Magnification Optics like the Elcan Specter line can do the job given the right magnification and reticle.

It's less a question of capability and more a question of usefulness. A stock, quality, modern AR with a 6x Optic could feasibly engage and get a hit on a 600 yard target with 5 rounds, low wind, and clear conditions. The War in Afghanistan has shown though that, even in very open environments, most combat and skirmishes occurs at 300 yards or less. Beyond those ranges, the ability to engage a target is still useful for suppression and interdiction, but the ability to neutralize enemies at the range is second priority to tracking, controlling, and reporting their activity. Exceptions (Like neutralizing enemy marksman, mortar teams, forward fire control, and scouts) are infrequent enough to be handled by DMR roles imbedded in a squad.

Issues then arise with trying to merge the two worlds. A variable optic can live in both, but it is a more fragile piece of hardware, more expensive, more difficult to teach grunts, and a liability in mobile war conditions. Switching suddenly between long and short range could jeopardize troops in a close-range ambush. Low power fixed-optics can still make CQB target acquisition and aim less efficient (And remember, CQB engagements are far-and-away the most dangerous and lethal) while still presenting some reliability and logistic issues (Though less pronounced). Something minimal like a 1X red dot or prismatic optic can be used more effectively in CQB, but depending on design it could still have problems with long-range engagements (Reticle size especially) or low-light conditions.

The middle ground is probably the most useful without being too obtrusive, but a more diversified and modular approach would be more effective at the expense of cost.
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Pogo_Marimo posted...

Issues then arise with trying to merge the two worlds. A variable optic can live in both, but it is a more fragile piece of hardware, more expensive, more difficult to teach grunts, and a liability in mobile war conditions. Switching suddenly between long and short range could jeopardize troops in a close-range ambush. Low power fixed-optics can still make CQB target acquisition and aim less efficient (And remember, CQB engagements are far-and-away the most dangerous and lethal) while still presenting some reliability and logistic issues (Though less pronounced). Something minimal like a 1X red dot or prismatic optic can be used more effectively in CQB, but depending on design it could still have problems with long-range engagements (Reticle size especially) or low-light conditions.

The middle ground is probably the most useful without being too obtrusive, but a more diversified and modular approach would be more effective at the expense of cost.

This is why the Elcan Specter line is popular, instant swap between various magnification settings.

No fiddling with dials to get the exact range.

I love what that has done for the average Infantry grunt.

You choose your zoom, that's it.

They just need to expand that to a 5x option setting version to be more useful IMO.
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The ELCANs are great (It IS Raytheon, so obviously) but for most of their line you're looking at an optic that costs 3 to 4 times more than the military issued rifle itself does, and far more prone to damage in battle conditions (And much more difficult to repair). As good as they are for specialist snipers and DMR, your rate of return diminishes the more you issue to troops.

The history of modern war has taught us that long-range marksmanship is only a supplement to other, far more important tasks (Like artillery, communication, coordination, reconaissance, suppression, air support, forward and mobile field guns, armor, ect.). Ever since the invention of smokeless powder cartridges in 1886 theorists have postulated that wars would be won from 500 yards away by soldier marksman. The reality is that has never been the case. A DMR provides long-range reconaissance while maintaining a precision tool to degrade some enemy long-range capabilities. Saturating the squad structure with DMRs doesn't increase this capacity by any signficant amount.
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Pogo_Marimo posted...

The ELCANs are great (It IS Raytheon, so obviously) but for most of their line you're looking at an optic that costs 3 to 4 times more than the military issued rifle itself does, and far more prone to damage in battle conditions (And much more difficult to repair). As good as they are for specialist snipers and DMR, your rate of return diminishes the more you issue to troops.

The history of modern war has taught us that long-range marksmanship is only a supplement to other, far more important tasks (Like artillery, communication, coordination, reconaissance, suppression, air support, forward and mobile field guns, armor, ect.). Ever since the invention of smokeless powder cartridges in 1886 theorists have postulated that wars would be won from 500 yards away by soldier marksman. The reality is that has never been the case. A DMR provides long-range reconaissance while maintaining a precision tool to degrade some enemy long-range capabilities. Saturating the squad structure with DMRs doesn't increase this capacity by any signficant amount.

I still think we need a much cheaper ELCAN variant.
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Alright?
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