Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Fox Elma W100 Knux MM Zera vs Archer Ryu3 Cloud Light Lilit Terra Nilin

(+) Yeah! (+)

There is no way this entire enemy team beats the wonderful 100 themselves , much less just one guy like ryu. You would have to massively disrespect the 100 to think ryu could even come close to them.
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ryu being invisible here is not a big deal

this ryu being as strong as, like, five dantes is
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HeroicGammaRay posted...

ryu being invisible here is not a big deal

this ryu being as strong as, like, five dantes is

That's a lot of dantes
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I don't really see how the dragon is that good. It has a param boost and devil trigger access. That's really all you should assume it gets from what's given in the write-up. No reason to assume it has "Dante's stats" as a base. It combines "aspects of the three" and then aspects of the three are given. If it meant to have their combined parameters, you'd think it would say such explicitly since it's not difficult to do that.
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Yeah I think it's more like it gains techniques and moves from him, not stats. If it took the stats of each it'd say so.
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smells like interp to me
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on the flipside if the wonderful100 sink the ship via arwinggeddon does kains genes cause ryu to choke underwater
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Yes
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It's interp from someone who didn't play Breath of Fire 3 since genes were never direct adds in that game.
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Yuffie also doesn't steal people's forms in FF7 and yet she does here.
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Yeah but you don't need to use "interp" to say Yuffie stole a form. If you're using interp it should something that's supported by the game.
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the stats of the dragons in the game vary quite a bit depending on the genes you use, not just the skills

it's not like you have original stats for whatever the genes came from in that game but it's the best thing to go by here to estimate the stats of the dragon
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HeroicGammaRay posted...

the stats of the dragons in the game vary quite a bit depending on the genes you use, not just the skills

it's not like you have original stats for whatever the genes came from in that game but it's the best thing to go by here to estimate the stats of the dragon
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They do vary but they're not straight adds. Certain combinations of weaker genes will give higher stat totals. Stronger genes != stronger stats by default.
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well, sure, but in the absence of having an implementation of bof3 to test this out in i'm gonna say this combination of really strong genes is gonna be really strong, imo stronger than any of the fighters alone

And I'm saying there's nothing in the game to support that actually because

1. The genes are abstractions in the game. There's no "Thunder" or "Thorn" enemy in BoF3.
2. Higher MP genes don't always make you stronger.
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Which brings us back to interp.
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Yes. Which brings me back to "you should base your interp on something that's from the game or not interp at all and just take the aspects to be what's explicitly in the write-up"
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I don't follow. Just because high mp genes don't always make super dragons doesn't mean that this combination doesn't.
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Like you do realize the parameter boost is based on the upkeeps of the mercs-- that should give you a foundation for the influences of the genes on "stats" and not need to as heavily use "interp" (because the base stats of the dragons don't actually vary all THAT much based on the genes)
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I am comfortable with my view on this match.
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there are exceptions at both ends but it's also untrue that there's no predictability whatsoever. like there's that one gene that pretty consistently makes a huge dragon with loads of hp (i think it doesn't with reverse for example, but i mean that's the reverse gene go figure). i GUESS dante + kain + zeratul could theoretically make some random weird failure, but i'm gonna give the component fighters some weight. saying 'we can't predict the stats perfectly so we should assume zero effect on stats' feels wrong to me. i mean on the param boost, there are even abilities that affect your own upkeep! if crash bandicoot were ability'd to 7/day level and replaced dante i would not think that dragon had the same parameters as in this match, even with the same % boost.

Well all you have for genes "power" as a measure is MP cost, which would be equivalent to upkeep. There's no word of god that says an Eldritch is stronger than a Thunder, conceptually, just that it costs more MP.
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I don't think you can conflate mp cost and upkeep though.
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The actual reason we don't know is because Accession is written like shit and doesn't specify which base dragon form Ryu3 actually takes while dragoning out - like, is it a Myrmidon? Warrior? Kaiser? This matters, it makes a difference, and we have no fuckin clue ATM. My take is that at most you get a Kaiser Dragon base if the genez are awesome and then apply the parameter buffs and abilities of the gene'd mercs on top, but that's just me.
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Well they're both numbers that generally increase as power increases.

It's less of a jump than saying "stronger merc = stronger gene" when stronger concepts aren't necessarily the stronger genes.

Like to put in perspective the strongest dragon buff will give you 250% to Ryu's stats and the weakest will give you 80%. To make the jump and say that these things are suddenly going to spike him to above Dante's levels just because one of the genes is called "Dante" is making a jump that's just not supported by the game.

Like you brought up Yuffie's ability thief and how Yuffie doesn't transform in games. It would be like reading a write-up that says "Yuffie has stolen Neptune's materia, gaining some of her abilities" and connecting the dots to say "oh, obviously she's transformed into Neptune!" despite the write-up giving no indication that's what has occurred, because "lol interp"
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I just brought up Yuffie as one of the other myriad of abilities that makes a Merc do stuff that is never shown in their own game. "Mercs Magic" is like a foundation of the game, and with lack of guiding bold, I've made my view of things known.
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Yeah I'm well aware your view is "to take the most outlandish interpretation of the bold you can credibly take in an attempt to make a mockery of the more poorly written abilities in the game" rather than to make any real honest attempt to interpret something.
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"okay"

Guess we're done here then.
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It's been a pretty consistent theme and you've shown no evidence you know the first thing about Breath of Fire 3 to even begin to attempt to "interp" in anything resembling an honest way.
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Ryu3 is a genetic freak with +105% pythons.

It spells disaster for you.
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Who cares how strong you are when you are basically frozen in place and can't fight back.
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GANON1025 posted...

Who cares how strong you are when you are basically frozen in place and can't fight back.

One of the things Dante and Vergil DO show resistance to is timehax...
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I count a tie. Since the match is currently tied, I'll tiebreak once I get home. Gimme like 30-45ish.
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Oh, dann. Was going to vote ryu3
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OK. So. To me, this match basically comes down to terrain interactions. To understand why, go the conventions and peep the first clause.

-No mercenary can ever start in a location where they would die instantly or end up ringed out of the terrain before abilities. If there's no room within a terrain to fit them, the terrain will stretch out until there's at least one yard of available, moving, safe space.

There's two ways to take this:

A) Mercs preferrably start at the starting point, but if there's no room there they're shunted off to places where they fit. If there's no room anywhere, the terrain stretches out a little so they don't get instagibbed.

B) Mercs always start at the starting point. It grows as needed to accomodate overlarge teams, or teams with colossal creatures in them.

If you take approach A, I don't think Eddv's victory is arguable - arwings should spawn right next to Tiro's team because there's space there, and wreck them with a fast crash or a barrage of gunfire. If you take approach B, however, Tiro has a very good chance because the arwings are bound to crash and this means the mostly heroic team of Eddv will spend its time rescuing survivors, letting the seconds tick down until Lightning Returns (Final Fantasy 13) and then this match becomes a boosted animal Ryu3, Cloud, Lightning, Lilith and Terra vs Eddv's team, which is pretty fair. It kinda sucks, but to me this very close match comes down to terrain/rules interp. And I think interp B makes more sense, so...Team Ryu takes it, I think. Sorry Eddv :-/
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Ryu3
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Whoops, that's what I get for voting after the page was open for 25 minutes.

At least it didn't change the result!
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Now I feel a lot less bad about not voting. Whew.
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ragequit

Im done with this shit
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