Current Events > Trump administration will not allow trans people to serve in military

(+) Yeah! (+)

Caution999 posted...

You never provide me with substance, so I'm not going to provide you with substance.

I don't want your nasty shit.

Caution999 posted...

Hell, you're lucky I don't have you ignored at this moment.

Add me if you will, I guess your CE updates like once every week from all the butthurt you've got right there.

SSJ-JohnLennon posted...

Kim never posts anything worth reading.

Well you provided comedy gold yesterday with your admission.
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Duncanwii posted...

The Admiral posted...

Sayoria posted...

I dunno.

You don't know what happens if transitioned transgender people don't have access to hormone treatments for extended periods? I think you do. The results are potentially fatal:
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/transgender-prisoners-hormones-seen-matter-life-death-6C10981031

Grow some fucking balls and stop browning your nose on every single matter.

Not sure where the brown nosing comes into play. This is not a conservative stance; it's a rational one.

Good job skipping 98% of her post *sarcastic clap.* Now go back and read the rest of it.

The rest of it is irrelevant to my point. This is not an issue of equality, it's an issue of someone with a medical condition not being allowed in the military.

Just to give a similar comparison, people with type 1 and type 2 diabetes are not allowed in the military (here's a longer list of conditions that keep you out):
http://www.military.com/join-armed-forces/disqualifiers-medical-conditions.html

The reason likely being that the military cannot guarantee diabetics that it will have insulin available on deployments, and going extended periods of time without it causes potentially fatal risks.

Similarly, the military has no way to guarantee hormones for transgenders.
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The Admiral posted...

Sayoria posted...

I dunno.

You don't know what happens if transitioned transgender people don't have access to hormone treatments for extended periods? I think you do. The results are potentially fatal:
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/transgender-prisoners-hormones-seen-matter-life-death-6C10981031

Grow some fucking balls and stop browning your nose on every single matter.

Not sure where the brown nosing comes into play. This is not a conservative stance; it's a rational one.

Are you really comparing the glory of fighting for the country to prison and confinement?

Unlike prisoners, militants enlisted to fight this out. Many go in not expecting to transition and many still come out proudly non-transitioned. Prisoners hold no freedom or control over their situation. Militants still have their freedoms on a different level.

Again, how many transgender people have caused issues while in the military? How many snapped and killed others? How many outted ones killed themselves?

Your stance is very conservative. If it was rational, you'd have a study based on military issues with transgender people, not bullshit from prison where they are outright neglected as humans at times.
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Antifar posted...

They're already there.

they are about to get kicked out then
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LightningAce11 posted...

Didn't he say he would support the lgbt?

Maybe he got tired of a large number of them treating him like ****?
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To hear one WH staffer put it, the rationale is not medical, nor financial. It's about the fucking midterms

https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/890202683721863168
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Capn Circus posted...

Maybe he got tired of a large number of them treating him like ****?

Why do you think they're doing that?
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a. Men: Height below 60 inches or over 80 inches.

I'm 62 inches
I CAN JOIN!!!

Antifar posted...

tennisdude818 posted...

Would bringing transgenders into the military make us safer?

They're already there.

That doesn't answer my question.
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Capn Circus posted...

Maybe he got tired of a large number of them treating him like ****?

then they treat him fairly
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Antifar posted...

To hear one WH staffer put it, the rationale is not medical, nor financial. It's about the fucking midterms

https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/890202683721863168

ofc, it's all politics.
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Sayoria posted...

Are you really comparing the glory of fighting for the country to prison and confinement?

I'm comparing groups of people forced to go extended periods of time without hormones. Your body does not care whether you are in prison or deployed in the field. If hormones are medically necessary, they're medically necessary.
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Capn Circus posted...

LightningAce11 posted...

Didn't he say he would support the lgbt?

Maybe he got tired of a large number of them treating him like ****?

Boy if that isn't petty i dont know what is
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Anyway that list already has transgenderism on it - it just might get waived or might not.
I imagine that anyone that is transgender might not see combat or at least might not even be out of the country/in places where HRT would be difficult to get (ie Iraq peacekeeping or something)

Antifar posted...

To hear one WH staffer put it, the rationale is not medical, nor financial. It's about the fucking midterms

https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/890202683721863168

I'm happy it happened overall, no matter the rationale :D
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People bitching about costs realize that this would be something like .009% of this administrations purposed military budget, correct?

I mean at least Admirals argument on not having access to treatment is something tangible and a point, although the counter is "then they should attempt to provide better medical treatment and availability in general and not paint with a broad brush", but at least it's an argument founded in reason. Complaining it's going to cost too much is laughable.
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wackyteen posted...

Antifar posted...

To hear one WH staffer put it, the rationale is not medical, nor financial. It's about the fucking midterms

https://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/890202683721863168

ofc, it's all politics.

Throwing the queer people under the bus for political expediency? It's almost like the president is republican.
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I love how liberals always say shit like the military is spending way too much, but when the military decides that it doesn't want to spend untold amounts of money for people to have expensive hormone treatments and surgeries then it's fuck the cost all the sudden.
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Capn Circus posted...

Maybe he got tired of a large number of them treating him like ****?

Yes, we all know our president should conduct his actions affecting thousands of people based on spite.

Grow the fuck up
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The Admiral posted...

Sayoria posted...

Are you really comparing the glory of fighting for the country to prison and confinement?

I'm comparing groups of people forced to go extended periods of time without hormones. Your body does not care whether you are in prison or deployed in the field. If hormones are medically necessary, they're medically necessary.

Transgender people have fought for years in the military far before opposing hormones were ever even a thought. Back in the early 1900s, you can bet there were transgender people in WW1. In WW2. Even earlier than that. "Transgender" isn't "new". While they help us, they aren't 100% "needed" for us to get the job done when it is needed. We have glory and pride for this nation and for many of us, that glory and pride is far more important than those hormones.
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X777WgpUYZ5Hv23 posted...

Anyway that list already has transgenderism on it - it just might get waived or might not.
I imagine that anyone that is transgender might not see combat or at least might not even be out of the country/in places where HRT would be difficult to get (ie Iraq peacekeeping or something)

but the most basic level expectation of a soldier is to be able to, at any time, deploy and engage, in combat, the enemies of the United States of America. <_<

Not being able to fulfill that expectation is a reasonable basis to be kicked out.
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Antifar posted...

Capn Circus posted...

Maybe he got tired of a large number of them treating him like ****?

Why do you think they're doing that?

No clue. He didn't do anything to them until now.
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Howl posted...

I love how liberals always say shit like the military is spending way too much, but when the military decides that it doesn't want to spend untold amounts of money for people to have expensive hormone treatments and surgeries then it's fuck the cost all the sudden.

.009% of the budget. Oh the horror!
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Sayoria posted...

Transgender people have fought for years in the military far before opposing hormones were ever even a thought. Back in the early 1900s,

tugging at heart strings

Sayoria posted...

you can bet there were transgender people in WW1. In WW2. Even earlier than that. "Transgender" isn't "new".

surgery for it is new though

Sayoria posted...

While they help us, they aren't 100% "needed" for us to get the job done when it is needed

Your performance would go down to below standards though
.
Sayoria posted...

We have glory and pride for this nation and for many of us, that glory and pride is far more important than those hormones.

then you could've chosen to have the surgery after serving the military
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Maybe because they're generally emotionally unstable.
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Sayoria posted...

Transgender people have fought for years in the military far before opposing hormones were ever even a thought. Back in the early 1900s, you can bet there were transgender people in WW1. In WW2. Even earlier than that. "Transgender" isn't "new". While they help us, they aren't 100% "needed" for us to get the job done when it is needed. We have glory and pride for this nation and for many of us, that glory and pride is far more important than those hormones.

Yeah, but back then you didn't talk about it/make it the focal point of your issues.

You put that to the side and did your damn job.

What (some) transgender people in the current military want is to get their transition while they're in and it winds up making them unable to deploy or distracts from their unit's mission.

I wish Transgender people all the best but if I have a soldier under me who is constantly in and out of appointments and not at work, then I don't have much particular use for them. They're missing out on training time, classes, learning at work, etc.
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The only issue would be with positions that require you to be on PRP, such as flying status or working around nuclear weapons. They always took that very seriously and didn't want us working if we were having even the slightest mental or physical issue that could hinder the mission.
That being said, there are hundreds of jobs that don't require PRP that anyone could do. If someone wants to serve, let them serve. Just don't pay for their cosmetic surgery. That goes for women who get their breast implants paid for as well.
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CEs_EFG posted...

Your performance would go down to below standards though

Prove it.

I could have a negative iq and the average iq in this topic would still go up

X777WgpUYZ5Hv23 posted...

Prove it.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/transgender-inmate-sues-missouri-prison-hormone-treatment-article-1.2765324


Jessica Hicklin, 37, is suing the Missouri Department of Corrections and their healthcare provider, Corizon, calling a policy that allows them to refuse giving her treatment “cruel and unusual” and, therefore, unconstitutional.

“Without care, I feel as though I am resentenced each day, further locked in a prison within a prison — my body,” Hicklin wrote in a blog post published to Lambda Legal's website. The legal organization filed the lawsuit on Hicklin's behalf.
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Damn, Trump really has the most outrageous vendetta on Obama. I wonder if the guy fucked his wife or something.
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Iodine posted...

This part actually makes sense tho:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFqgjpdVwAE5EPk.jpg:large

Yeah, I don't see anything wrong with that.
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X777WgpUYZ5Hv23 posted...

Prove it.

http://www.revelandriot.com/resources/trans-health/

Body fat / muscles: Body fat will be redistributed from the more typically “female” pattern (under the skin, including on arms, legs, and hips) to a more typically “male” pattern (surrounding internal organs, and in the abdomen). Your muscular mass may increase. Changes will be gradual, possibly beginning around 3 months. If you stop taking testosterone, fat may redistribute towards its original pattern, and muscle mass may gradually decrease.

Will I have to continue with hormone therapy all my life?
If you decide to stop taking hormones, you may require medical monitoring to ensure that your hormonal levels do not put you at increased risk for osteoporosis, or other health concerns. This is particularly true for masculine transitioning who have undergone an oophectomy (removal of the ovaries).
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CEs_EFG posted...

Sayoria posted...

Transgender people have fought for years in the military far before opposing hormones were ever even a thought. Back in the early 1900s,

tugging at heart strings

Sayoria posted...

you can bet there were transgender people in WW1. In WW2. Even earlier than that. "Transgender" isn't "new".

surgery for it is new though

Sayoria posted...

While they help us, they aren't 100% "needed" for us to get the job done when it is needed

Your performance would go down to below standards though
.
Sayoria posted...

We have glory and pride for this nation and for many of us, that glory and pride is far more important than those hormones.

then you could've chosen to have the surgery after serving the military

Surgery is new but for the militants of the pre-surgery era, it was NOT needed. Funny how you guys are now all of a sudden "Oh, but this is needed and mandatory and blah"

....And if you want to serve in the military, you can't tell anyone you are transgender now.

Not really. If anything, I've gotten far more active and aware of things. If you compared me from 10 years ago to now, you'd definitely notice I am far more focus, competent and driven to get my work done.

You have to keep that to yourself or you are disbarred. Sure, you can transition after, but it isn't right that you have to keep it 100% to yourself and live in fear that people will find out. That's going completely backwards.
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AlternativeFAQS posted...

I could have a negative iq and the average iq in this topic would still go up

Do you have anything worth while to add to the discussion?

I love how the hardcore leftists believe Trump just enacts these things out of bigotry. No, his administration sat down, looked at the statistics, looked at the numbers, and made an educated decision.

But everyone gets so riled up from their emotions, and the media plays on this. Emotions are what drives the media. It drives their entire industry. Emotions are paying their bills.

Going without their treatment is a serious concern. The medical costs are a concern. It's not an easy decision, but it's one that the President has to have the balls to make.
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wackyteen posted...

Sayoria posted...

Transgender people have fought for years in the military far before opposing hormones were ever even a thought. Back in the early 1900s, you can bet there were transgender people in WW1. In WW2. Even earlier than that. "Transgender" isn't "new". While they help us, they aren't 100% "needed" for us to get the job done when it is needed. We have glory and pride for this nation and for many of us, that glory and pride is far more important than those hormones.

Yeah, but back then you didn't talk about it/make it the focal point of your issues.

You put that to the side and did your damn job.

What (some) transgender people in the current military want is to get their transition while they're in and it winds up making them unable to deploy or distracts from their unit's mission.

I wish Transgender people all the best but if I have a soldier under me who is constantly in and out of appointments and not at work, then I don't have much particular use for them. They're missing out on training time, classes, learning at work, etc.

And transgender people in the military still do. They shouldn't have to hide it though. We still get our jobs done and we can still out-perform others.

I have also been transitioning and you don't need to "leave" all that often. I see my endocrinologist once a year and I have my pills. That's it.

Huzzah.
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Sayoria posted...

Surgery is new but for the militants of the pre-surgery era, it was NOT needed. Funny how you guys are now all of a sudden "Oh, but this is needed and mandatory and blah"

so how are you trans without the surgery back in day? do you just tell people you were a girl/guy?

Sayoria posted...

Not really. If anything, I've gotten far more active and aware of things. If you compared me from 10 years ago to now, you'd definitely notice I am far more focus, competent and driven to get my work done.

Will I have to continue with hormone therapy all my life?
If you decide to stop taking hormones, you may require medical monitoring to ensure that your hormonal levels do not put you at increased risk for osteoporosis, or other health concerns. This is particularly true for masculine transitioning who have undergone an oophectomy (removal of the ovaries).



Sayoria posted...

You have to keep that to yourself or you are disbarred. Sure, you can transition after, but it isn't right that you have to keep it 100% to yourself and live in fear that people will find out. That's going completely backwards.

Not really... your personal life is your own don't ask don't tell sonnnnn
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Caution999 posted...

I love how the hardcore leftists believe Trump just enacts these things out of bigotry. No, his administration sat down, looked at the statistics, looked at the numbers, and made an educated decision.

But everyone gets so riled up from their emotions, and the media plays on this. Emotions are what drives the media. It drives their entire industry. Emotions are paying their bills.

this guy, i like this guy
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Caution999 posted...

I love how the hardcore leftists believe Trump just enacts these things out of bigotry. No, his administration sat down, looked at the statistics, looked at the numbers, and made an educated decision.

But everyone gets so riled up from their emotions, and the media plays on this. Emotions are what drives the media. It drives their entire industry. Emotions are paying their bills.

Going without their treatment is a serious concern. The medical costs are a concern. It's not an easy decision, but it's one that the President has to have the balls to make.

I'm sure that Andrew Johnson's people sat down and made educated decisions back then about slavery.

There's a revoking of an American privilege at hand here.
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Caution999 posted...

No, his administration sat down, looked at the statistics, looked at the numbers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEcGJe7rVPI
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Caution999 posted...

I love how the hardcore leftists believe Trump just enacts these things out of bigotry. No, his administration sat down, looked at the statistics, looked at the numbers, and made an educated decision.

Give me actual proof or shut the fuck up. Show me the costs for this are that important that it wouldn't be a drop in the bucket to the already over inflated military budget.
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SSJ-JohnLennon posted...

AlternativeFAQS posted...

I could have a negative iq and the average iq in this topic would still go up

Do you have anything worth while to add to the discussion?

There's no point with you people

CEs_EFG posted...

Sayoria posted...

Surgery is new but for the militants of the pre-surgery era, it was NOT needed. Funny how you guys are now all of a sudden "Oh, but this is needed and mandatory and blah"

so how are you trans without the surgery back in day? do you just tell people you were a girl/guy?

Sayoria posted...

Not really. If anything, I've gotten far more active and aware of things. If you compared me from 10 years ago to now, you'd definitely notice I am far more focus, competent and driven to get my work done.

Will I have to continue with hormone therapy all my life?
If you decide to stop taking hormones, you may require medical monitoring to ensure that your hormonal levels do not put you at increased risk for osteoporosis, or other health concerns. This is particularly true for masculine transitioning who have undergone an oophectomy (removal of the ovaries).



Sayoria posted...

You have to keep that to yourself or you are disbarred. Sure, you can transition after, but it isn't right that you have to keep it 100% to yourself and live in fear that people will find out. That's going completely backwards.

Not really... your personal life is your own don't ask don't tell sonnnnn

You guys are imbeciles. Seriously, this is fucked up.
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Surely this is the final nail in his coffin?
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Sayoria posted...

Caution999 posted...

I love how the hardcore leftists believe Trump just enacts these things out of bigotry. No, his administration sat down, looked at the statistics, looked at the numbers, and made an educated decision.

But everyone gets so riled up from their emotions, and the media plays on this. Emotions are what drives the media. It drives their entire industry. Emotions are paying their bills.

Going without their treatment is a serious concern. The medical costs are a concern. It's not an easy decision, but it's one that the President has to have the balls to make.

I'm sure that Andrew Johnson's people sat down and made educated decisions back then about slavery.

There's a revoking of an American privilege at hand here.

And you'd be the first in line to blame Trump if Transgendered soldiers were stuck somewhere without access to their pills/treatment. You'd be the first to blame him if they committed suicide. You're a never-Trumper. No matter what he does you're going to complain.
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Sayoria posted...

You guys are imbeciles. Seriously, this is f***ed up.

you didn't answer the question dude/dudette

Sayoria posted...

so how are you trans without the surgery back in day? do you just tell people you were a girl/guy?

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Gender dysphoria is a mental condition that is associated with a high suicide rate. You think it's a good idea to invite people with this problem into the most stressful situation possible?
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Sayoria posted...

You guys are imbeciles. Seriously, this is fucked up

"I'm not melting down"
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The Great Muta 22 posted...

Give me actual proof or shut the f*** up. Show me the costs for this are that important that it wouldn't be a drop in the bucket to the already over inflated military budget.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/03/12/how-health-care-spending-strains-the-u-s-military/#a84d5312c549

healthcare is a chunk of the military budget, that's why congress always threatens to take it away
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