Poll of the Day > Youtube Constructive Criticism

(+) Yeah! (+)

So, I was just unpatreoned by some youtube guy I won't name. I had a really weird conversation with him. He had posted a thread where he noticed that his patreon support was diminishing, and was asking if there was anything he was doing wrong and how to fix it.

So, I posted a response... oops

The gist of what I was saying was that there's (at least) three key components to good videos:
- being entertaining
- being informative
- being charismatic

To me, I found his videos maybe high in informative, and low in entertaining and charismatic. I pointed out that there's some great youtubers who are like that, except maybe they're more off-the-scale informative. others are great by being entertaining and/or charismatic without being all that informative.

but, the guy just could not see anything but the negative in whatever I said. everything I ever posted would have every negative word stripped out of context as if that was all I said.

eventually, after like 8 or so exchanges like this, I said "geepers man, go google 'how not to take constructive criticism personally' or something" and found myself promptly 'blocked' and unpatreoned.

what a strange experience... I mean, that is precisely how NOT to be a good content creator... I've released mods and even a small game, and have a tiny bit of experience in being on the creator side having a critical audience. I know it magnifies the intensity of everything that's being said, and it's hard not to take it personally, but I also know to do everything I can *not to let that affect me*. you don't want to just start up back-and-forth arguments with anyone and everyone that criticizes you.

(this is I think where "the customer is always right" comes from. you don't want to turn every arguing customer into an escalating shouting match, it has to be deescalated as quickly as possible. not to suggest that I was an "arguing customer", though, I thought my post was pretty harmless.)

I suspect that since he had recently had to make a decision between his full-time job and doing youtube/patreon full time instead, and chose the latter when a lot of people pledged support (including myself), that he's feeling a bit resentful that the support is trickling away and now maybe he's not as secure as he thought he was. but geez, I hadn't withdrawn my support and was only trying to help in whatever way I could. what a weird situation.
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I actually said something in a really rude way to a youtuber in the same situation. He ignored me like a mature adult. I bluntly said "I don't think you're funny". I can't think of a nice way to say "I don't think you're funny".
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well, in this case, this was a thread he had started asking if there was anything he was doing wrong. his response to my "entertaining, informative, and charismatic" idea was basically "oh, so I'm boring and uncharismatic am I? why are you even a patron then?" and it spiraled from there. I tried to be as polite and helpful as I could be, but he just couldn't take a single positive thing I was saying.
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I can't even remember all the rude things I've said on the internet.

I can't take it like I dish it either. I'm probably like this guy in all honesty. :P
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Guy sounds like a major douchebag that feels like people owe him their money. I'd unsubscribe and move on.

Tell us which YouTuber it is so we can go make fun of him for being a baby

eh, I feel like it would be an underhanded thing to do to post his youtube name, especially since these forums are googlable.

I would post the conversation, but I only have his half of it, since I lost access to the thread when I was blocked, and I just have the emails that have his replies in them. (ok wait, I found my comments in my comment stream. not sure if I'll post them.)
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here, I'll post a censored version of the conversation since I have access to the whole thing now. feel free to tell me if I'm being unreasonable, which is really why I'm making this thread in the first place: (note that I never expected to get a reply to my first comment, was just leaving it as my honest feelings on the matter.)

Sahuagin

the feeling of "this guy is making stuff I want to see more of and I'm willing to give him money to see more of it" has to be maintained. when I stop or reduce a patreon, it's usually because what they're making has become predictable and boring. in your case I'm only barely interested in what you're making. so if I don't see a particularly interesting video for a long enough period, I'm going to think "why am I supporting this guy?" and withdraw support.

Youtuber

The question then, is what are you interested in?

Sahuagin

in some sense it's one of those "I know it when I see it" things. but to give a rough idea, something like "entertaining informative commentary on subjects I'm interested in". (subjects I'm interested in include --------- and ---------.) A high amount of informative can make up for a low amount of entertaining and vice-versa. your videos seem to be low entertaining, and possibly high informative (I haven't seen tons of them though). your videos about ---------- and his lousy attempt to ------------------------ were great, very highly informative, if a bit dull and repetitive.

another thing that can help a lot is charisma, which maybe you don't have tons of (sorry). if a content creator is interesting and awesome enough as a person, that can create an even more powerful hook. then, the viewer is not just there to be entertained, but has a connection with the person themselves. I think this is where a lot of ----------------'s and ---------------'s popularity comes from. they're just great people who we want to see happy. --------------- is maybe another example where the guy himself is awesome enough that after a while you'll just watch anything he makes and it becomes more about the person and less about the content.

Youtuber

So basically "I don't like your videos." I'm confused why you're a patron then.

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Sahuagin

uh, no, not really what I said... if you want to reduce everything I explained down to simply "liking" your videos, then I "like" your videos enough to have contributed, but may not "like" them enough to necessarily contribute forever, I guess. but you were the one asking for info; I would have thought a response more detailed than "I don't like your videos" is what you're looking for, but whatever...

Youtuber

I asked what topics you are interested in. I didn't ask for "well, you're not entertaining, your best videos were dull and repetitive, and you're uncharismatic."

Sahuagin

so, I guess you have trouble taking mild criticism... (really, compare your paraphrasing to what I actually said...) you're the one asking for info here, and I'm trying to be honestly helpful. I'm not trolling you, I'm not flaming you, I'm giving you a reasonable appraisal of my experience with your content so far, which is ostensibly what you're asking for. the word "topics" does not appear in this whole thread until just now. I want to like and enjoy your content, and I want to have reason to support you. I want you to prosper and be happy and successful. but if I find your content dull, and your response to that is to say "then get lost"... well I don't think that's a great pathway to those ends...

Youtuber

You complain about my paraphrasing, and yet you don't see your own as lacking? I informed you that if you find my content dull, it is confusing why you give me money for the dull content. You then proceeded to complain about my assessment, rather than addressing the point.

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Sahuagin

are you even reading what I'm saying? why are you twisting everything I'm saying into the ultra-negative? I've very clearly explained why I'm a supporter and why I might not continue to be. I guess another bit of advice then would be to try not to engage in spiteful arguing with "customers". I'm trying to be as patient and polite as I can be here and all you're doing is twisting it into a bickering argument. I haven't even said anything all that critical...

Youtuber

Telling me that I told you "then get lost" is false. I am not "twisting everything you're saying into the ultra-negative" by telling you that. You are throwing a very odd little fit here. Having a bad day?

Sahuagin

Distilling what I originally said down to "I don't like your videos" and then saying "so why are you even here" carries the implication of "then get lost". If you compare your responses to what I've said, each one distills what I said down to only the negative. To play armchair-psychologist, this could indicate that you have severe pessimism or depression. I don't know why or how you think it's a good idea to engage in a conversation like this with a 'customer'; I should not have to defend myself from you. I was only trying to help.

Youtuber

It carries no such implication. Do you not see how it's an honest question, when the entirety of what you said was negative? You told me all sorts of things you dislike about my videos and nothing you do like, so what else would you expect but confusion about why on earth you would pay me for them? Unless you're seriously autistic or just playing dumb, then you must be having a really shit day where you want everyone to attack you, and read an attack into everything. If that's what you want to do with your time, I can't stop you. But I can tell you to leave me out of it.

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Sahuagin

"You told me all sorts of things you dislike about my videos and nothing you do like"

actually no, I explained three things that are key to enjoying any video: being informative, being entertaining, and the publisher him/her-self being charismatic. I said maybe your videos are on the low side of entertaining and charismatic, but on the high side of informative. that's not an insult. --------------, for example, is maybe on the low side of entertaining and charismatic, but is off the scale in terms of being informative. that's why his videos are great. ------------- also has off the scale informative, high charisma, and maybe medium entertaining. that's why his videos are great. ------------- has high charisma, high entertainment, and medium to low informative. etc.

Youtuber

You're boring, but who knows, you might be highly informative, but I haven't watched many of your videos and I'm barely interested in anything you do so I don't know. Oh yeah, man. That's a right compliment, that is. Re-read what you originally posted and ask yourself if you would honestly interpret it as anything but a string of insults.

Sahuagin

It's not about being complimentary or insulting. I'm trying to put my subjective experience into words for your benefit, which is what you're ostensibly looking for. And I'm doing it in a super-nice way considering this is the internet, and considering your harsh reaction. *I like you and want to help you* in whatever limited way I'm able. But you sure are making it hard.

Youtuber

"It's not about being..." - I wasn't referring to what "it's about" for you. I was telling you that you should take an objective look at what you actually wrote, and determine how a typical human being would read them. And by the way, the fact that you keep interpreting things like "harsh reaction", etc. into my neutral inquiries and rebuttals says a lot about you, especially when you complain that I'm interpreting things negatively.

Sahuagin

geepers man, go google "how not to take constructive criticism personally" or something

Youtuber

I can see that no matter how many times I try to break through the brick wall inside your skull and get even the most basic point regarding social interaction across to you, it's never going to happen. You're too obsessed with this idea that everything I say is a harsh attack, rather than a statement of fact or even a mere statement of confusion, which was the case with the first statement you freaked out about. I'll just leave you to your misery, "customer".

you have been blocked

Youtuber

By the way, I've just saved you $4 a month. Buy yourself a beer or something to take the edge off.

<end>
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aw, everyone lost interest. so, was I being stupid? at least tell me if I was being stupid. 8)
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you were stupid to continue talking to him
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Sahuagin posted...

aw, everyone lost interest. so, was I being stupid? at least tell me if I was being stupid. 8)

A lot to read tbh

I don't blame either of you, it's a touchy thing to talk about and things escalated. Seems like he was bothered and took it the wrong way when you were being mature.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH61vwnjhDY
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JOExHIGASHI posted...

you were stupid to continue talking to him

k thanks, that's fair

thanks for the replies guys
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Youtube drama never ends it seems.
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