Board 8 > Game of Thrones Season 7 - The enemy always wins. (SPOILERS)

(+) Yeah! (+)

just watched the clip. interesting. i saw the show first, too.

maybe quaithe is the one who tells dany that she's barren in the show?
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Finally got a chance to watch. I have many thoughts to post, but while I gather them I will say one thing:

Why would Rhaegar name his kid Aegon when he already had a kid named Aegon? Was he just planning on leaving his other two children because he thought Jon fufilled the prophecy and wanted him to have the name? I know Aegon was already dead by the time Jon was born but Lyanna didn't know that...and Rhaegar died before Elia and the children.
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Also to nitpick a bit, something a review vid I watch pointed out: the Kingsguard armour is so lame. It's such generic armor, while in the books it's supposed to be all white. Heck, even Jaime is constantly decked out in Lannister colors instead of Kingsguard colors!
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Did Jaime ever get readded to the guard?
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costuming probably thought that

1. white armor looked lame

2. it was better to have people armored based on their actual allegiance - arthur dayne wears targ, which gets more to the point that 'this is a targaryen loyalist' than a kingsguard uniform, which would probably confuse casuals
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SeabassDebeste posted...

just watched the clip. interesting. i saw the show first, too.

maybe quaithe is the one who tells dany that she's barren in the show?

No, Dany tells Jon that she was told by the medicine woman.
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Yeah, Daenerys specifically mentions Mirri as the one who told her that.

...and she didn't. >_>

I said it was a continuity error for a reason!

you guys got no faith in me! <_<
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Commodore posted...

Forgive me if the question has already been asked/answered but I don't have time to read all this. Wtf happened at Casterly Rock? Last we saw the unsullied were about to get wrecked by euron's fleet and then they all magically show up at Kings landing unscathed like nothing happened. Any ideas?

Somebody mentioned this...I wanna say Jamie to Olenna? He said their plan was to simply make the Unsullied march all the way back to Dragonstone.
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xp1337 posted...

Yeah, Daenerys specifically mentions Mirri as the one who told her that.

...and she didn't. >_>

I said it was a continuity error for a reason!

you guys got no faith in me! <_<

Look, obviously Mirri said it off-screen in a scene that has never been referenced until just now, six seasons later.
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I feel like if this was a real error someone else, anywhere else, would have pointed it out before. I hope it IS a real error because it is funny though
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GANON1025 posted...

I feel like if this was a real error someone else, anywhere else, would have pointed it out before. I hope it IS a real error because it is funny though

I saw this earlier today from a blogger I trust

http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/2017/08/game-of-thrones-season-7-fact-check.html?m=1
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What scene/episode do you guys think was the turning point where this show became schlocky garbage?

I'm probably estimating too late in the series, but Arya getting gutted and then parkouring throughout Braavos is standing out.
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I think Season 5 is probably the turning point. I don't know if there's a specific scene or episode I'd point to. Or maybe there is and I've just forgotten it, but a lot of pretty dumb stuff happened there.
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I remember there being some dumb shit in season 4, like Yara trying to rescue Theon, then outrunning the dogs. And I didn't like the way they handled a few things at the end. But season 5 was where I thought the bad was more common than the good.
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Nelson_Mandela posted...

schlocky garbage

Schlocky? Red wedding was the catalyst
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4x10. there was a lot of isolated badness early on, but broad arcs were always mindblowingly interesting and well thought out.

4x10 effectively ended tyrion's tenure as best/most interesting character - and arya's at the same time. it had the fucking terrible brienne/hound showdown. it had bran versus skeletons with fire-tossing fairies, and then he has to contend with a storyline even GRRM can't figure out how to write. it shits on tywin (who i think is *unequivocally* better in the show) and randomly had cersei overpower him; and the more human tywin dying to whitewashed tyrion was extremely dissonant. (lolshae too.) i believe 4x10 had the sansa-coming-downstairs-in-black scene as well.

the one thing 4x10 got right (and which carries S5) was jon/stannis
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Dorne, full stop.
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though full disclosure - despite clearing being past GOT's prime and having some really badly written arcs, S6 is one of the better seasons, and 6x10 is possibly my favorite episode of the show's run.
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Alfie Allen deserves an Emmy. Still such great performances.
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Oh and the series sucked when they butchered Stannis the Mannis beyond belief.

2 hours, but highlights everything wrong with that (and a few other things, especially between acting vs. emoting)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw5JyOtxovo
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People talk shit about Dorne, but at least it was important to the story
Riverrun was the worst
They made a big deal out of Blackfish but then killed him off screen wow
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Was it?

was Dorne really important to the story?
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No, it wasn't.

Off the top of my head, I think the following could have been cut from the show very easily without hurting it much, based on what their 'payoff' was:

* EITHER Margaery's 'scheming' OR the Faith Militant
* Every scene in Dorne - just send Myrcella back to King's Landing and have her killed there by Ellaria (who was in KL anyway)
* Jaime retaking Riverrun
* Rickon and Osha coming back
* Barristan Selmy's reappearance in Essos
* Daario Naharis, entirely
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SeabassDebeste posted...

Margaery's 'scheming

I loved this so much but yeah. When she gave Olenna the rose I was so pumped.

And then nothing came of it and that just sucked.
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I think the impact of Riverrun and Daario in the show is obviously less in the show, but I wouldn't call them completely irrelevant. Riverrun needed to be taken, otherwise it would be a lingering plot point where everyone could've been like "so what happened to Riverrun"

Daario's purpose essentially is just to make Dany not want to fully "commit" to Hizdahr, which is less relevant in the TV show but if you see how pointless Hizdahr was in the show, I guess you're right, it could've been cut.
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I haven't had large problems with the show until this season. Arya in Bravos was kinda boring. I don't know that I've ever really had a grasp on Essos. Jon Snow being brought back wasn't done very well. But I never felt like the show had major problems until now. Jamie and Bronn emerging from the water in 7-5 was just so damn jarring.
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My Immortal posted...

I loved this so much but yeah. When she gave Olenna the rose I was so pumped.

And then nothing came of it and that just sucked.

Exactly. Better not to include it. King's Landing S5-S6 was a huge fucking waste of time. Cersei starts out pretty much in power, does a whole bunch of really, really stupid stuff that would result in utter disempowerment for anyone else, and ends up on the Iron Throne. It's actually even more insulting than Dorne to me personally, because KL used to be the greatest setting of the show.

Not that the Wildfire Assault on the Sept of Baelor wasn't exciting as fuck and super-well-directed, but yeah.

RyoCaliente posted...

I think the impact of Riverrun and Daario in the show is obviously less in the show, but I wouldn't call them completely irrelevant. Riverrun needed to be taken, otherwise it would be a lingering plot point where everyone could've been like "so what happened to Riverrun"

Daario's purpose essentially is just to make Dany not want to fully "commit" to Hizdahr, which is less relevant in the TV show but if you see how pointless Hizdahr was in the show, I guess you're right, it could've been cut.

In the books, the Blackfish holds Riverrun. In the show, they explicitly state that he managed to take it back from the Freys, who had held it since the time of the Red Wedding. Plus, it had been three years since the Red Wedding in the show. This subplot belonged in S4 or S5 if it were really going to be relevant.

And yeah, Hizdahr's death made all the inner conflict leading up to it kind of 'lol.'

neonreaper posted...

I haven't had large problems with the show until this season. Arya in Bravos was kinda boring. I don't know that I've ever really had a grasp on Essos. Jon Snow being brought back wasn't done very well. But I never felt like the show had major problems until now. Jamie and Bronn emerging from the water in 7-5 was just so damn jarring.

I'm sad on your behalf. I was actually probably able to enjoy the season more because the show 'broke' for me much earlier, so I sadly came to expect garbage like that.
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neonreaper posted...

Jon Snow being brought back wasn't done very well.

I still have problems with this. Why did it work when Melisandre didn't think it would? Why did Davos even think to ask? And was there no price to pay for resurrection, other than an inch or so of hair? Someone elsewhere said Jon is darker now, but he's softer than both of his sisters.
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it was pretty disappointing that the jon snow/stannis at the wall arc ended so unbelievably stupid for both of them when it was one of the better parts of the season for the bulk of it.

EndOfDiscOne posted...

I still have problems with this. Why did it work when Melisandre didn't think it would? Why did Davos even think to ask? And was there no price to pay for resurrection, other than an inch or so of hair? Someone elsewhere said Jon is darker now, but he's softer than both of his sisters.

RE: price - Thoros didn't think it would work when he brought Beric back, and it's unclear what price is paid there. Beric says he's less, but that's certainly not obvious.

Davos asking Mel to bring Jon back - and Davos turning into a major Jon supporter, in general - is completely out of thin air. We kind of overlook it because everyone just wanted Jon back and didn't want time wasted; and Liam Cunningham has been so great as Davos that he can kind of sell the bad writing.
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like 90% of the show is now shit we overlook because we don't want time wasted

At least we don't get any more SHMATH THE BEETLETH scenes
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velocycloraptor posted...

like 90% of the show is now shit we overlook because we don't want time wasted

EndOfDiscOne posted...

At least we don't get any more SHMATH THE BEETLETH scenes

and yet we get tyrion sneaking in broad daylight to meet with jaime underground instead of just letting tyrion capture jaime and discuss as a condition of letting him go

oh, and why not have cersei know about the meeting, too? seems fair

oh, and the meeting is to propose a preposterous plan that - get this, guys - doesn't work and fails exactly how you would have expected, despite nearly every step going off without a hitch
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On a similar note: if they hadn't gone with this plan, what, exactly, was the Night King's plan for getting past the Wall, anyways?
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every wight will be disassembled into skeleton parts and then carefully shot over the wall in a catapult, then the parts run around comedically trying to put themselves back together, sometimes putting on parts from the wrong gender or someone of a different height or size

whoa
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i was really excited for the bran-brings-down-the-wall theories last year after he was marked by the NK. that hope essentially died in the first 5 min of S7. :/
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But bran is the night king, so he did bring down the wall
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dowolf posted...

On a similar note: if they hadn't gone with this plan, what, exactly, was the Night King's plan for getting past the Wall, anyways?

Somewhere in the books, I vaguely remember them referencing the white walkers essentially freezing some major river in Essos the last long night when they tried to invade.

I had this idea in my head where they just sort of freeze a little bit of the water around Eas(femalegenitaliaslang)ch and then walk around while the Night's Watch look down from the top of the wall and shake their fists.

I know its likely fresh water vs sea water and all that, but they're magical ice demons that bring extreme cold. It wouldn't have been any dumber than the Dornish subplot tbqh.
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Odds that nothing about the Night King will be explained by the end of the series?

I say 75%
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Didn't they already say at some point when Bran was stuck in the tree that the Children of the Forest made him to fight against the first men? Like he was a weapon of theirs that got out of control.

I would venture a guess that they are not dedicating any more time to him at all beyond that!
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foolm0r0n posted...

red13n posted...

I'm thinking pregnant dany, has twins or something, dies sometime after.

And then Cersei also has twins and dies.

Last scene of the season 8 finale is a timeskip 40 years forward and their children are still fighting each other. Cut to 70 year old Sam who chuckles and says "welp, looks like the Game of Thrones never ends!"

Ha ha well foolmo is clearly joking but I am actually fully expecting some retcon BS about Daenerys now being able to bear exactly one child since exactly one dragon "child" was slain. And then it turns out that "the prince (or princess) who was promised" was Dany and Jon's unborn child all along.

This is the level of writing I am anticipating now. I will say that because I've lowered my expectations so much since S5 I did actually enjoy the finale of S7 on a casual level. Littlefinger needed to go because he was useless. His claim to master strategist died when he gave Sansa to the Boltons and still thought he could control her afterwards. Get got, bro.
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foolm0r0n posted...

Odds that nothing about the Night King will be explained by the end of the series?

I say 75%

obviously all the lore they gutted makes up the basis of the 5 spinoff ideas that got pitched

please look forward to HBO Original "Light Up the Night King" to get the 7-season long backstory
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And on a random note I am truly bent about the way Rhaegar was handled in the show. He's supposed to look handsome, elegant, and solemn- this was the man Cersei was devastated she'd never be with. He's supposed to be the envy of women across the Seven Kingdoms and instead he looks like a flipping Viserys clone. NOBODY wanted Viserys- even prostitutes wouldn't give him the time of day if it wasn't for his "birthright"!

Not only did they butcher his appearance, they butchered his characterization with that annulment bullcrap as well! Yes in the books it's highly theorized that he eloped with Lyanna, but to completely negate the first marriage and name the newborn lovechild the same thing that you named the boy by your previous marriage retroactively makes him a total asswipe.

Gah! He's one of my favorite characters in the book and he's been mishandled so poorly I'm relieved he's been delegated to the background lest they spit on him even further.
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we probably get a scene of the night king banging one of his relatives at the very least.

GenesisSaga posted...

His claim to master strategist died when he gave Sansa to the Boltons and still thought he could control her afterwards. Get got, bro.

That reminds me... I'm still not over Roose dying the way he did.
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Littlefinger dying
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Is the worst scene in the show
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