Current Events > Real talk: You hate death metal because it's over your head...

(+) Yeah! (+)

I don't hate death metal, it's just that I'm not in high school anymore and my tastes have changed
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weapon_d00d816 posted...

Pogo_Marimo posted...

I tend to enjoy heavy metal and doom, and even some technical stuff, but death and power metal tend to be a bit excessive and shallow. What's the point of singing about stuff if it doesn't really relate to anyone? What's the point if it's so cartoonish or grotesque as to enter cliched absurdity? What's the point of these hyper-technical solos if you drown out the excellence or emphasis in such overpowered dynamics? Even the lows in a song feel manufactured and predictable instead of delivering a deeper musical perspective for the listener. It feels like complexity at the expense of diversity and abrasiveness at the expense of sincerity.

It's like a movie that's nothing but action scenes. No character development, no themes, no archetypes, no progression, no pacing, and no dynamics. Bleh.

That doesn't apply to any of the bands I listen to.

You really just have to find the good stuff, said time and time again.


As for lyrical themes, extreme metal usually isn't about a message. Lyrics provide aesthetics and atmosphere. They aim to do something completely different so I wouldn't call them "lacking".

That's kind of a problem though. If you are making music and you have nothing to say... You shouldn't say anything. You certainly shouldn't drill into the ground the same tired cliches in the same tired way for the one millionth time. I can't count on one hand the number of times I heard something genuinely insightful from Death Metal--Because you can't count to "Zero". I wouldn't exactly call James Hetfield a "competent" lyricist, but at least he tries to relate brutal or tragic things in a way that humans can conceptualize and actually emphasize with--Like the song "One", as a quick and dirty example. There is no reason Death Metal can't do this aside from simple lack of proficiency.

If I don't know how to write a compelling baseline, I shouldn't just compensate for my lack of talent by just wailing on base notes and overpowering the dynamics to hide the lack of subtlety or inspiration. The same can be said for lyrics. If you don't know how to write compelling and original lyrics, don't compensate by regurgitating the same themes in the same ways and hiding it in the same manner. Which isn't to say that Death Metal is the only genre where this is a problem (Because it shows up everywhere) nor that all Death Metal bands are equally guilty of it (Because they're not). Death Metal just does it in the most artistically offensive way possible in my opinion.
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Pogo_Marimo posted...

If you are making music and you have nothing to say... You shouldn't say anything. .

don't do things I don't like!
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eston posted...

I don't hate death metal, I just want to be a condescending prick and insult people who like it.

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Pogo_Marimo posted...

If you are making music and you have nothing to say... You shouldn't say anything.

But here's the thing...music, just like other forms of art can have a message that's open to interpretation. It's doubly true with music since, as far as the actual sound, there's no explicit message. I'm not wild about the brutal death metal lyrics that are all about bloody guts, but that doesn't stop me from experiencing the emotions that are triggered from listening to it. I just think of death metal as being the musical equivalent of a painting that depicts a violent moment in history. It's not being glorified, it's just exposing the darker side of life.
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What sounds nonsensical to one person might make total sense to another. Same as with a lot of jazz, prog, etc.
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I'm ok with occasional screaming vocals like Opeth but I don't want to listen to bands who do that all the time.
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chill02 posted...

Pogo_Marimo posted...

If you are making music and you have nothing to say... You shouldn't say anything. .

don't do things I don't like!

Yeah. I'm allowed to be critical of things I don't like. I hope this isn't a shocking fact, or are you of the opinion that art is some expression of man above critique? I personally think some art is garbage.
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But... I DON'T hate Death Metal. Quite the opposite really.
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Vicious_Dios posted...

But... I DON'T hate Death Metal. Quite the opposite really.

You hate Life Metal?
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Give me Death, Carcass, Cannibal Corpse, Vader, Obituary, Morbid Angel, Deicide, Carnage, Entombed, Bolt Thrower and Suffocation any day of the week.
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I mostly like the instruments, vocals are simply annoying.

CircleOfManias posted...

eston posted...

I don't hate death metal, I just want to be a condescending prick and insult people who like it.

I forgot how sensitive you guys are
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Pogo_Marimo posted...

weapon_d00d816 posted...

Pogo_Marimo posted...

I tend to enjoy heavy metal and doom, and even some technical stuff, but death and power metal tend to be a bit excessive and shallow. What's the point of singing about stuff if it doesn't really relate to anyone? What's the point if it's so cartoonish or grotesque as to enter cliched absurdity? What's the point of these hyper-technical solos if you drown out the excellence or emphasis in such overpowered dynamics? Even the lows in a song feel manufactured and predictable instead of delivering a deeper musical perspective for the listener. It feels like complexity at the expense of diversity and abrasiveness at the expense of sincerity.

It's like a movie that's nothing but action scenes. No character development, no themes, no archetypes, no progression, no pacing, and no dynamics. Bleh.

That doesn't apply to any of the bands I listen to.

You really just have to find the good stuff, said time and time again.


As for lyrical themes, extreme metal usually isn't about a message. Lyrics provide aesthetics and atmosphere. They aim to do something completely different so I wouldn't call them "lacking".

That's kind of a problem though. If you are making music and you have nothing to say... You shouldn't say anything. You certainly shouldn't drill into the ground the same tired cliches in the same tired way for the one millionth time. I can't count on one hand the number of times I heard something genuinely insightful from Death Metal--Because you can't count to "Zero". I wouldn't exactly call James Hetfield a "competent" lyricist, but at least he tries to relate brutal or tragic things in a way that humans can conceptualize and actually emphasize with--Like the song "One", as a quick and dirty example. There is no reason Death Metal can't do this aside from simple lack of proficiency.

If I don't know how to write a compelling baseline, I shouldn't just compensate for my lack of talent by just wailing on base notes and overpowering the dynamics to hide the lack of subtlety or inspiration. The same can be said for lyrics. If you don't know how to write compelling and original lyrics, don't compensate by regurgitating the same themes in the same ways and hiding it in the same manner. Which isn't to say that Death Metal is the only genre where this is a problem (Because it shows up everywhere) nor that all Death Metal bands are equally guilty of it (Because they're not). Death Metal just does it in the most artistically offensive way possible in my opinion.

Right off the bat you're wrong. Music doesn't have to have a message. If you think it does you haven't branched out very far. Music can simply be aesthetic and entertaining, and its "message" can simply be evoking raw emotion. What the hell do you think classical music was?

I didn't even read the rest because it started off so ridiculous.
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weapon_d00d816 posted...

Pogo_Marimo posted...

weapon_d00d816 posted...

Pogo_Marimo posted...

I tend to enjoy heavy metal and doom, and even some technical stuff, but death and power metal tend to be a bit excessive and shallow. What's the point of singing about stuff if it doesn't really relate to anyone? What's the point if it's so cartoonish or grotesque as to enter cliched absurdity? What's the point of these hyper-technical solos if you drown out the excellence or emphasis in such overpowered dynamics? Even the lows in a song feel manufactured and predictable instead of delivering a deeper musical perspective for the listener. It feels like complexity at the expense of diversity and abrasiveness at the expense of sincerity.

It's like a movie that's nothing but action scenes. No character development, no themes, no archetypes, no progression, no pacing, and no dynamics. Bleh.

That doesn't apply to any of the bands I listen to.

You really just have to find the good stuff, said time and time again.


As for lyrical themes, extreme metal usually isn't about a message. Lyrics provide aesthetics and atmosphere. They aim to do something completely different so I wouldn't call them "lacking".

That's kind of a problem though. If you are making music and you have nothing to say... You shouldn't say anything. You certainly shouldn't drill into the ground the same tired cliches in the same tired way for the one millionth time. I can't count on one hand the number of times I heard something genuinely insightful from Death Metal--Because you can't count to "Zero". I wouldn't exactly call James Hetfield a "competent" lyricist, but at least he tries to relate brutal or tragic things in a way that humans can conceptualize and actually emphasize with--Like the song "One", as a quick and dirty example. There is no reason Death Metal can't do this aside from simple lack of proficiency.

If I don't know how to write a compelling baseline, I shouldn't just compensate for my lack of talent by just wailing on base notes and overpowering the dynamics to hide the lack of subtlety or inspiration. The same can be said for lyrics. If you don't know how to write compelling and original lyrics, don't compensate by regurgitating the same themes in the same ways and hiding it in the same manner. Which isn't to say that Death Metal is the only genre where this is a problem (Because it shows up everywhere) nor that all Death Metal bands are equally guilty of it (Because they're not). Death Metal just does it in the most artistically offensive way possible in my opinion.

Right off the bat you're wrong. Music doesn't have to have a message. If you think it does you haven't branched out very far. Music can simply be aesthetic and entertaining, and its "message" can simply be evoking raw emotion. What the hell do you think classical music was?

I didn't even read the rest because it started off so ridiculous.

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I never said you need a message to write music. I said, quite literally, don't say anything if you have nothing to say. Which is to say, if what you have to say is stupid bullshit then that is a detriment to the song. So don't use words. Don't use lyrics.
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Pogo_Marimo posted...

Vicious_Dios posted...

But... I DON'T hate Death Metal. Quite the opposite really.

You hate Life Metal?

I... DON'T hate Life Metal. Quite the opposite really.
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Pogo_Marimo posted...

weapon_d00d816 posted...

Pogo_Marimo posted...

weapon_d00d816 posted...

Pogo_Marimo posted...

I tend to enjoy heavy metal and doom, and even some technical stuff, but death and power metal tend to be a bit excessive and shallow. What's the point of singing about stuff if it doesn't really relate to anyone? What's the point if it's so cartoonish or grotesque as to enter cliched absurdity? What's the point of these hyper-technical solos if you drown out the excellence or emphasis in such overpowered dynamics? Even the lows in a song feel manufactured and predictable instead of delivering a deeper musical perspective for the listener. It feels like complexity at the expense of diversity and abrasiveness at the expense of sincerity.

It's like a movie that's nothing but action scenes. No character development, no themes, no archetypes, no progression, no pacing, and no dynamics. Bleh.

That doesn't apply to any of the bands I listen to.

You really just have to find the good stuff, said time and time again.


As for lyrical themes, extreme metal usually isn't about a message. Lyrics provide aesthetics and atmosphere. They aim to do something completely different so I wouldn't call them "lacking".

That's kind of a problem though. If you are making music and you have nothing to say... You shouldn't say anything. You certainly shouldn't drill into the ground the same tired cliches in the same tired way for the one millionth time. I can't count on one hand the number of times I heard something genuinely insightful from Death Metal--Because you can't count to "Zero". I wouldn't exactly call James Hetfield a "competent" lyricist, but at least he tries to relate brutal or tragic things in a way that humans can conceptualize and actually emphasize with--Like the song "One", as a quick and dirty example. There is no reason Death Metal can't do this aside from simple lack of proficiency.

If I don't know how to write a compelling baseline, I shouldn't just compensate for my lack of talent by just wailing on base notes and overpowering the dynamics to hide the lack of subtlety or inspiration. The same can be said for lyrics. If you don't know how to write compelling and original lyrics, don't compensate by regurgitating the same themes in the same ways and hiding it in the same manner. Which isn't to say that Death Metal is the only genre where this is a problem (Because it shows up everywhere) nor that all Death Metal bands are equally guilty of it (Because they're not). Death Metal just does it in the most artistically offensive way possible in my opinion.

Right off the bat you're wrong. Music doesn't have to have a message. If you think it does you haven't branched out very far. Music can simply be aesthetic and entertaining, and its "message" can simply be evoking raw emotion. What the hell do you think classical music was?

I didn't even read the rest because it started off so ridiculous.

...

I never said you need a message to write music. I said, quite literally, don't say anything if you have nothing to say. Which is to say, if what you have to say is stupid bullshit then that is a detriment to the song. So don't use words. Don't use lyrics.

You don't have to read the lyrics you know...
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Death Metal is one of the most underappreciated and misunderstood genres of music out there. Some people will like it others just won't and will ignorantly ignore it's technicality and skill levels needed to perform such things and dismiss it all as noise.

But that's their opinion and they're entitled to it, In my 15 years of being a hardcore fan of harder metal subgenres, I've gotten past the point of thinking some people can be converted or will even listen to any reasoning given, let them be ignorant and don't let them get in the way of you enjoying your shit because they're irrelevant and should't get in the way of enjoying

Coming from a veteran metalhead the whole metal is 2deep4u routine gets old fast and just doesn't look good like at all
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ZombiePelican posted...

let them be ignorant and don't let them get in the way of you enjoying your shit because they're irrelevant and should't get in the way of enjoying

It really doesn't, but part of my enjoyment is thinking about how smart I must be for liking smart music like death metal, among other genres. I have an enormous ego.
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I found most death metal is not all "hail satan", but is about the darker side of human nature. Talking about stuff like Gilles De Rais, corruption in the Vatican, and the like.
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Pogo_Marimo posted...

I never said you need a message to write music. I said, quite literally, don't say anything if you have nothing to say. Which is to say, if what you have to say is stupid bullshit then that is a detriment to the song. So don't use words. Don't use lyrics.

Lyrics are usually the last thing I'll pay attention to, especially when it comes to metal. Not just death metal, but metal in general. I don't think the music would be nearly as good without a singer, so I don't really consider dumb lyrics to be a detriment to the song.
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Generally I'm not into super harsh vocals that often, but god DAMN does Cradle of Filth have the best lyrics I've ever heard.

Easily the best lyricist out of any genre of music I've heard. CE should check it out if only to read some of it.
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http://itsmetal.tumblr.com/post/5836471373/how-to-tell-the-difference-between-metal-genres
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leverageblargh posted...

Death Metal is an eclectic genre which attracts an eclectic audience. More art than just music, Death Metal touches the part of the listener that Buddhists call the "Third Eye" and psychologists refer to as the Satanconscious. This art school protege leads a new breed of musicians who feel that the music and art speak for themselves. In concert, you will find yourself traversing unique worlds made of odd time signatures, mystical subject matter, hypnotizing visuals and transcendental soundscapes.

Must see source. That's excellent!
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