Board 8 > Survivor HHH Discussion Topic 1: IT'S TIME TO PLAY THE GAME! (Also, BB19/TAR30)

(+) Yeah! (+)

epilogue

how long until matt badmouths raven?

what lasts longer, jody or marlena?

how many people on this cast at kevin's for thanksgiving?

is christmas a homewrecker?
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Someone pointed it out on Reddit. They read the votes in the perfect way to build up Paul's hopes and then just smash them to pieces. I love it.
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did he cry
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X_Dante_X posted...

did he cry

Paul? Yeah, he started crying before the fourth Josh vote was revealed.
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yessss
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GTM posted...

if Tim can be on BBCAN4 for winning BB Australia, you can be on Celebrity BB

you don't know how much you are wanting me to try >_>

I won a survivor/bb game a few years ago that started with 100 people, I was a co-host of the 2nd season and I am still alive in the 4th season (currently at final 11) [note: these are just gamefaqs comps hosted on other boards] plus my name is also Tim.

In my drunken state, you are actually convincing me that I would have a chance, even though I have no social media presence whatsoever so literally know one would no who I am... but yeah you're still making me want to believe >_>
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ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

I won a survivor/bb game a few years ago that started with 100 people

I was very aware!
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Sophie's twitter goes from disappointment to anger to elation
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GTM posted...

epilogue

how long until matt badmouths raven?
Later tonight.

what lasts longer, jody or marlena?
Easily Jody.

how many people on this cast at kevin's for thanksgiving?
At least half of them.

is christmas a homewrecker?
She should be ashamed for voting against Josh over lady boners.
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GTM posted...

ImTheMacheteGuy posted...

I won a survivor/bb game a few years ago that started with 100 people

I was very aware!

really? O_O

from me not shutting up about it? or for some other means? I feel like no one outside of the series' community would know about it other than people that I would keep talking about it to/in front of
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Just finished the finale.

I. AM. FLOORED.

LOL

Paul's face at the last 3 votes for Josh. Dear god. I FELT THE DISAPPOINTMENT. So amazing for an ending.

Nice one, Paul. You suck at managing a jury. Russell Hantz of BB but you had a year to figure it out.

The power of a jury format. MAY IT NEVER CHANGE.
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Humorously, Paul would have won with the standard 7 man Jury.
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BakusaiTenketsu posted...

Humorously, Paul would have won with the standard 7 man Jury.

He would've won BB18 with a 7-man jury too.

A shame he can't manage one more person. We've found his weakness.
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Inviso's Post-Show Cast Ranking

AMAZING TIER:

1. Cody (Even before his efforts to turn against Paul, he was my favorite back in episode one. There was just something so refreshing, in an era of people all too eager to recite the diary room's scripted lines, to have a player who gave so little of a shit about the corny bullshit Big Brother tries to peddle season after season. Then he turned into an anti-Paul crusader and cemented his position as the best of the season. Watching the jury segments wouldn't have been nearly as fun without Cody reminding the other houseguests "I wasn't fooled by Paul, dumbasses." Throw in the fact that Cody crushed Paul's dreams TWICE on finale night by casting the deciding vote for Josh, and then winning America's Favorite Player, and I'm REALLY glad Cody was there to make the season more bearable.)

2. Mark (Mark was a minion for a while there, but at the very least he always seemed like he was conflicted. Even from day one, when Cody divided the house, Mark felt bad about betraying a guy who trusted him, and that haunted him for the rest of the season. Overall, Mark was just a big ol' teddy bear who tried his best to be nice and speak out against the bullying in the house, even though Paul kept a constant stream of shit flowing his way. He seems like a genuinely nice person who could've probably been my favorite in any other season.)

DECENT TIER:

3. Elena (I'm not gonna praise Elena for her time in the house that much. I feel like she, like almost every other woman in the cast, was too easily blinded by Paul and sucked up to him, to the detriment of her and her partner's game. BUT, Elena in the jury house was a thing of beauty. Cody was deadpan, but Elena was snarky and bitchy, and I NEEDED someone to call out how shitty the houseguests were, since Coey was never going to be that outspoken kind of guy. Elena dragging people like Matt, Raven, and even Mark on occasion, was extremely fun and redeemed her in my eyes as someone who didn't last long enough or hold power long enough to be truly awful.)

4. Dominique (Yeah yeah, I know, Inviso likes the sassy black girl. But honestly, The cast this season was either early boot duds that showed little to no personality, horrible assholes that made the endgame drag out, a small clique that were at their best in the jury house, and Dominique. Dom's eviction week was actually fun because it was one of those rare instances where someone TRIED to warn the rest of the house about Paul, even though it fell on deaf ears. The fact that she was a lunatic helped matters, and I'm willing to accept Dom as a hilarious religious nutjob.)
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I love you guys

I am drunk and high

But I say it again

I love you guys

And yes, that is all
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FLAWED TIER:

5. Jason (The best of the true minions, Jason ranks this high because he felt like one of the few people who actually felt like he had an independent thought, and actively seemed to dislike some of the things Paul asked of him, but went along with them out of loyalty to Alex, who sucks. Jason was a genuinely likable guy, and the revelation of his pregnant wife was one of the few bright spots in an otherwise bleak season. Also, major kudos for being the first minion to be truly bitter over Paul's bullshit. Definitely paved the way for a good ending.)

6. Jessica (I WANTED to like Jessica, because she was an underdog early on and was one of the few people who spoke out against Paul before we got down to the big alliance having eliminated everyone else. But I'm sorry...she just rubs me the wrong way. You KNOW that if Cody hadn't blown up his game, and hers by association, she would've nestled in right up Paul's ass with the rest of the house's women. Hell, that's how she got Ramses evicted. She just wanted to not make any waves with a house that LITERALLY did everything they could to make her lose HoH, and it led to the indisputable worst HoH of the season. She was just another of the girls this season that destroyed her partner's game, and her own in the process. I can't forgive that.)

7. Josh (A solid portion of this ranking is because Josh beat Paul and gave me the most schadenfreude I've seen on a season of Reality TV since Russell lost to Natalie White and Sandra in back-to-back seasons. It also helps that Josh was edited as the only person who saw through Paul's bullshit, and correctly made moves to undermine him, even though he could never effectively take Paul out of the game. That being said, Josh was still an asshole, and his circus music/pots and pans shtick pissed me off. That, and his constant trying to make "Meatball" happen was just cringe-worthy

8. Kevin (I WANT to like Kevin, because he's a quirky character who felt like such a wild fish out of water in this house. Unfortunately, he fell victim to the same shit that plagued a LOT of people this season, and he lasted almsot to the end fully buying that Paul cared about him and wanted to be his buddy. Do I feel bad that Kevin spent the last few weeks getting crapped on, on Paul's orders? Hell yeah. But the fact that he sat there and took it...it was just so pathetic. You spent a full summer getting bossed around by an arrogant 24-year-old like Paul and you're gonna kiss his ass even after he fucks you over? Gross.)
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DON'T CARE TIER:

9. Megan (I'm glad she got out when she did. That house was utterly toxic, and I have no doubt that things were worse for her than was saw on television. Normally I automatically tick a negative box for quitters, but I honestly can't blame her for quitting given how bad things got. I wish we'd gotten to see more of her though.)

10. Jillian (All I know about Jillian was that she sold timeshares. That's pretty much all ANYONE knew about her. She was just a completely bland and worthless casting choice. I mean, I wanted her to survive over Christmas because I knew what Christmas' survival would mean to the rest of the season, but still, her leaving didn't ruin things. Only fun thing about Jillian was her status as a Trump supporter, and how Roger Stone tried to convince the Twitterverse to vote to keep her safe, in order to defy the liberals trying to silence her. What a dumbass.)

11. Cameron (I still believe that Cameron would've just been another Paul minion had he ever gotten a real chance to play the game. He just seemed like that kind of personality. His appearance in the battle back, or at the finale...it was just cringeworthy and trying to make him seem more important than he ever actually was. I still feel bad for him, because he got cut to make room for Paul's bullshit...but I'm not losing sleep over getting rid of a player who would inevitably scream in the diary room, talk a big game, and ultimately not do anything of merit.)

12. Ramses (Ramses, by virtue of being the longest-lasting of the "who gives a fuck" tier, ranks the lowest. Ramses was such a damn flop. He comes in thinking he's gonna be this social butterfly gamer. And what does he do? He sits in corners, keeping to himself, and even though he had NO ONE in the house on his side, he couldn't even be bothered to fucking TALK to Jessica about maybe, you know, pulling him off the block since she didn't want him going home the week he did. His complete invisibility in the finale recap says all you need to know about how worthless Ramses was.)
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FUCKING TERRIBLE TIER:

13. Alex (Alex is no different from Christmas or Raven, honestly. She was mean, she was bitchy, she was catty, and she actively harmed the game of her ride-or-die because she refused to ever go against Paul's will. I think she was a shitty person who got off on being a bitch to people too. And I think she fancied herself Paul 2.0. Seriously, with her stupid cat ears, or the superhero costume at the jury house, or the PETTY hat, or trying to be quirky by bringing a can of Coke out to her Julie interview, everything she did felt forced, to try and play a 'character' like Paul did in BB18. She outranks the rest of his irredeemable minions because she actually got bitter and helped fuck Paul over in the final vote, but she still sucks.)

14. Raven (I HATE Raven. I hate her delusions, I hate her attention-whoring, and I hate her utter uselessness as a player. That being said, I will take Raven's delusional attitude, that led to the house hating her SO MUCH that they spite-voted Josh to win, over borewhores like Christmas and Matt. She ALMOST loops back around to being so delusional that I can ironically appreciate her, but much like Christine Brecht in BB16, she just enabled the worst people can go fuck herself.)

15. Matthew (Thinking it over, I think Matt was actively worse than Raven. Raven at least inspired emotion in me. It wasn't GOOD emotion, but at least I can KIND appreciate her as a trainwreck of a person. Matt though? Matt was a fucking asshole. He spends all season sucking face with Raven, is perfectly HAPPY to go on the block as a pawn MULTIPLE TIMES, and tried to push his love of cereal as a defining character trait. Fast forward to his final week, aka the only time he showed any personality. He gets lied to by Jason and immediately goes into high-pitched "YOU ARE SUCH A PUNK BITCH!" mode. Like Jason's a bad person for backstabbing you when you were literally planning on doing it to him if Raven won HoH. He was just such a complete flop of a houseguest.)

16. Christmas (She was Paul's biggest enabler all season long, and even Cody saw that, hence trying to get her out week one. I mean, I think there are other players who are more openly terrible than Christmas, but she was ALWAYS there to kiss Paul's ass while being a complete non-threat due to her injury. The fact that the endgame rolled around and she actively shut down ANY discussion of going against Paul when he was trying to pin all blame on Joshmas? Fuck that. Getting mad at Josh for considering "Hey, Paul might beat us in the finals?" Fuck that. Giving up at the final 3 and practically begging Josh to pick Paul over her. FUCK. THAT.)

17. Paul (The twist that ruined the season, Paul was my least favorite houseguest from episode one, because I didn't think he deserved to be there and I knew he'd be an overbearing presence no matter how long he lasted. And at no point during the season did he EVER give me reason to stop and say "You know what? Paul is more of a positive addition to this season than Player X." All Paul did was foster an atmosphere of bullying all season long, and even after the fucking VOTES were cast, he STILL had to belittle Josh by calling him a coward for leaving pleasant goodbye messages. What a fucking douche.)
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watching on west coast and holy fuck josh holy fuck
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Like I don't think I can even be satisfied with a bitter jury rejecting Paul anymore because fuck.
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mnkboy907 posted...

Like I don't think I can even be satisfied with a bitter jury rejecting Paul anymore because fuck.

Are you referring to the final eviction decision?
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Inviso posted...

mnkboy907 posted...

Like I don't think I can even be satisfied with a bitter jury rejecting Paul anymore because fuck.

Are you referring to the final eviction decision?

Yes. But after these questions maybe it actually was the right move, lol. Holy hell, Paul. It's F2 and you still can't own up to your own game? These questions clearly show the jury is bitter and mad at you, but you're still gonna lie to them? Please get fucked.
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mnkboy907 posted...

Inviso posted...

mnkboy907 posted...

Like I don't think I can even be satisfied with a bitter jury rejecting Paul anymore because fuck.

Are you referring to the final eviction decision?

Yes. But after these questions maybe it actually was the right move, lol. Holy hell, Paul. It's F2 and you still can't own up to your own game? These questions clearly show the jury is bitter and mad at you, but you're still gonna lie to them? Please get fucked.

Yup, I was gonna say exactly that. "You might be mad now, but trust me, you're gonna be more mad the other direction with the jury questions."
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stop reading mnk come back when youre done
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This page has been fine!
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spoilers Christmas breaks her other foot going up to vote
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I'll do this for you mnk

Expect the Unexpected!!! Holy shit Paul just got fucked Russell Hantz style. The true bitter jury!
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Pity Josh didn't say something along the lines of "well Paul was involved in getting all of you out, but he always made sure to do it in a way that kept the blood off his hands and onto mine, and I thought that was unfair and wanted these people to know it was also him betraying you all."
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Hooray! I forget when I said it but around the F6 or 7 I said I'd be okay with a Josh win, as weird as it was to think of. There's just a beautiful poetic justice in Paul losing to Josh of all people. His personal attack dog. The guy he used to screw Jessica and Cody over by convincing everyone to keep. Beautiful. Paul learned nothing.
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Good morning you buncha meatballs!
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It's funny because it was probably Paul's cowardly act of denying everything he did that swayed Cody away from voting for him. I feel like if at the very least he had owned up to his game during the jury questions that maybe Cody's vote may have landed on him.

Another thing is with the way they showed a bunch of Josh's goodbye messages that we hadn't seen before (seemingly confirming that they do in fact show each evicted houseguest all the messages off screen, which I had assumed was the case). Each week a new juror would've been going in talking about how Paul couldn't even tell the truth after they'd been evicted, and that probably soured people like Alex and Cody the more it happened. Very good move by Josh, and not something Paul had planned for at all.
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Holy shit did Josh seriously win? That's amazing and makes me want to go back and finish the season (I dropped out right before Jessica's eviction but only because I was too busy and fell too far behind).

Josh was annoying sometimes, trying to force a catchphrase being his main offense, but overall he was a sweet kid who missed his family and didn't quite possess the emotional maturity to be locked in a house with strangers.

To see the guy that had a meltdown day 1 and was so paranoid that he had to selfishly grab immunity at his team's expense (which may have actually saved him) make it all the way to the end and win is incredible. Against a mastermind no less. This is like Devin beating Derrick in BB16 if Devin were likable. A closer comparison would certainly be RI Boston Rob and Phillip, and you could argue that Paul carried Josh to the end the same way (I'm guessing), but Josh is way more sincere than Phillip ever was.

And to forego booting Paul at Final 3. And to win by 1 vote, with the deciding vote being cast by his biggest enemy? My God, that's season redeeming in my eyes.

I still have everything from like Final 6 on saved on my DVR. I'm gonna watch that at least.
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I mean, it's a hilarious and fairly satisfying ending, but the road up to it still sucks.
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mnkboy907 posted...

I mean, it's a hilarious and fairly satisfying ending, but the road up to it still sucks.

It depends on Josh's arc TBH. Was he still banging pots and being an idiot up until the end? Because I was keeping an eye on stuff and it sounds like he was secretly on the ball and the only one on to Paul.
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No, he has a decent edit that leads up to his win at least. Certainly way more so than if a bitter jury had handed it to Christmas. It's still frustrating, but maybe knowing the outcome will ease the frustration and make it funnier.
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Inviso posted...

Also, just to annoy certain people who I know will hate me saying this...

But Josh is the first person of color to win Big Brother since Season 4 (and the first man of color.) That's fucking awesome.

I don't hate you for this but I'm also not a bad person for not noticing stuff like this or defining people by their race or gender.

Danielle Reyes is one of my favorite players ever but it's certainly not because she's a woman or a minority.

And I just got done listing a few reasons why Josh winning is awesome and none of them have to do with him being a "person of color".
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mnkboy907 posted...

No, he has a decent edit that leads up to his win at least. Certainly way more so than if a bitter jury had handed it to Christmas. It's still frustrating, but maybe knowing the outcome will ease the frustration and make it funnier.

Actually now that I think about it, Josh being a maniac until the end could still be a good story if its calculated. If he realizes he's Paul's Phillip and plays it up to reach the end, that's good gameplay. Especially if you can justify it and not remain insane through the jury session like Phillip did.
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Josh cooled down a lot once Mark was out at F9, and a lot of his edit the rest of the season was devoted to being that one voice who might clip Paul when the opportunity arose. In a sea of sheep who only drank the Paul kool-aid, it was partially refreshing to hear at least one person talk about dissent, but on the other hand we all kinda knew it'd probably never happen. False hope.

When Josh took Paul to the F2 I felt it very fitting for the shit-tier quality this season has been. Josh had a lame duck narrative that wasn't going to be fulfilled. And in some ways it wasn't entirely fulfilled given he never took Paul out.

But I do think him not clipping Paul and then beating Paul at the F2 is such an unexpected finish that it kinda makes up for every time Josh talked about cutting the snake. Instead of being satisfied at the F3, we had to wait another hour to get the ultimate satisfaction, all coming down to one vote, in the final minutes as the season is about to close. Had Josh taken Xmas I'm not sure he'd beat her, but I am sure regardless of the outcome it wouldn't be as satisfying as what we actually got. And I think that's worth way more.

90% of this season was bad, just not fun to watch, not good entertainment, reminded me of the bad seasons of Survivor. It was a slog to get through and kind of a waste of time. But the very end was amazing and unique and I think left us in awe. That final 1% is kinda special in some way. It doesn't redeem the season but it does leave us on a good note, which I think is worth a lot.
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I think the best comparison to this season/ending is if Ivette beat Maggie in BB6.
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That's probably the closest, though Josh >>>> Ivette.
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I'm watching Paul exit interviews and Paul really doesn't seem to understand why he lost. Sadly neither Rob nor Dr. Will steered him in the right direction by asking why he didn't own up to his game. Josh's interview on RHAP was pretty good.
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Peridiam posted...

That's probably the closest, though Josh >>>> Ivette.

Yeah, ivette was garbage. She called kaysar a "sand <n-word>" and he did nothing to deserve it. He was just defending his friend.

As much as I hated josh's antagonism, mainly the pots and pans, when he brought it back when Cody re-entered, it was understandable. He wanted to boot Elena and was trying to insinuate this without giving enough away to crash his own game, and Jessica and cody, even though I was rooting for them, were in the wrong there for throwing it back in josh's face. The look scratch and hot sauce incident was hilarious and I don't hold that against Josh because of it even though he was in the wrong.
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Some fun Raven related tweets.

https://twitter.com/meganafrench/status/910695398389542912

https://twitter.com/stephbestellar/status/910896929076387842

https://twitter.com/ButFirstBB19/status/910896524124721152

https://twitter.com/blaez63/status/910747341631746048
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oh man that Rob one is good
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AUS Survivor Episode 18

Because of what happened with Big Brother, I didn't manage to finish that episode until midnight and therefore had no opportunity to post about it (or reply to your PMs, Machete).

Luke had the best auction prize EVER. Though it would have been nice if he got to give any excess away. Like he could have split his cheesecake with Sarah or given his avocado BLT to Michelle. Would have earned some favours, but chances are he wasn't allowed to share a single thing. I mean, he didn't even get to pick someone to join them on the reward. Since Tessa got to pick someone as part of that prize, shouldn't Luke have gotten the same per his note?

It was also nice that the only two remaining parents were the two that got to phone home, as unlikable as one of them is. Tara really is the only person left that I can't stand. I don't dislike Michelle like some people here do, but there are a few issues with her game. Very Ciera Eastin like in that she talks big but doesn't consider what somebody else is thinking. Part of why I find it forgivable is that Tessa outright said "You're on the bottom." At least Tessa has fully made up for that error. Taking Michelle on the reward was a great way to redeem herself and strategically position herself to usurp power.

Taking out Henry was a great move because the guy had an idol, but at the same time I'd think Ziggy or Locklan would have been even smarter. Ziggy also has an idol - though I am not sure who has deduced that she got one with the Super Idol - and Locky has a higher sense of self-awareness than Henry. Henry was getting REALLY COCKY and that made him less threatening. Locky urging Henry to play the idol was unexpected and very, very perceptive. He had to have realize he was a faux target and that they'd target one of the other two powerhouses. Very smart.

Henry was basically Malcolm, but with a larger, more visible ego. He has the same charisma, likability, handsomeness and general appearance, and game knowledge, but unlike Malcolm he is visibly shady because of his ego. Malcolm is better at disguising his cockiness or being playful about it - it's why he managed to avoid the target for so long in Philippines. People were more endeared to Malcolm than they were to Henry which blinded them to the level of control that he had. Henry... was too obvious, but also had to deal with the Malcolm comparisons out there. At the time of Philippines, people would've thought Malcolm to be more of an Ozzy - someone with little strategic wherewithal but a strong physical presence. Now, Henry's easily a threat. Lying about his job did not help him. I forget why he even did that.

This season continues to deliver. If it continues and the winner is someone I feel is deserving, this may very well be a top 5 season for me. If Tara wins, then it suffers the same fate as Amazon in that its entertainment only building up to a disappointingly tragic finish hurts my overall opinion of it. I REALLY hope that does not happen. A whiny hypocrite like Tara can't really be edited positively...

#BB19
So glad Josh won. Paul is going to struggle with this for the rest of his life. He lost twice for the same reason both times: He did not own his game and lied to the jury when they knew the truth. You NEVER do that. That's basically insulting their intelligence. He did a fantastic job in convincing the jury to vote against him when he should have done the reverse. Paul's greatest mistake, however, was the goodbye messages. Only DoorMatt and Raven fell for his BS but they're complete morons who should never have been cast.

Grodner and Robyn Kass need to cast more fans of the show if they want me to return for #BB20. Or do an All-Stars and promise to never do a mixed cast again. Right now, I'm not looking forward to anything Big Brother related and it's their faults.
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2 qs

Do they always reveal in reverse order and do they know the votes in advance?
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They just gave Josh two pans with his face on it on the talk.
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GTM posted...

2 qs

Do they always reveal in reverse order and do they know the votes in advance?

I wanna say they usually reveal in the order where 3rd place is revealed last because I specifically remember Julie saying fuck it she was breaking the rules because she wanted to see who Vanessa voted for. But then again I seem to remember Da'vonne being the deciding vote last year and she was the first juror...but its possible I'm remembering wrong because she was just considered the deciding vote because she was expected to vote for Paul and didn't.

I don't think they know the votes beforehand though, I'm pretty sure of that. They don't even know who the finalists are until right before.
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I remember in BB13 they revealed from first juror to final juror.
In BB14 they went the other way, 3rd place went first.
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They could just base it on who they think each juror will vote for (and I imagine jury house talk leaves them with a pretty good idea), and go one direction or the other depending on how dramatic they expect the build up to be.
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