Poll of the Day > Roger Ebert: Videogames are a waste of life

(+) Yeah! (+)

"For most gamers, video games represent a loss of those precious hours we have available to make ourselves more cultured, civilized and empathetic" - Roger Ebert, the world's most renowned film critic.

I can't help but to agree. Especially for games that you can sink thousands of hours into with no actual ending such DotA, League(I have over 4000 hours in this game and was basically addicted to from 2010-2015), WoW, etc. You have basically sunk thousands of hours into a worthless skill and have looked at the same map, the same characters, the same repetitive task to the point where you've been basically working a job for free without producing anything for society. And what do you gain from it? If I had spent those hours instead watching 2000 films or 500 books, I would have become more cultured and way more interesting and nuanced of a person to talk to.

Go ahead, rationalize away fellas.
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If you're having fun playing those games, you haven't wasted your time

SkynyrdRocker posted...

If you're having fun playing those games, you haven't wasted your time

yes, ebert also said games are not art
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See, this is the kind of topic where you're not sure if it's low-tier bait or an actually-held opinion using trolling language.
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broken zeus are you zeus?
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Isn't he dead.

he is?
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Sounds like you're projecting your own failure to play games without getting addicted onto other people and using an out-of-touch, cranky old man as justification.
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SkynyrdRocker posted...

If you're having fun playing those games, you haven't wasted your time

Well... that can't be the only criteria. There are a lot of things you can do all day which are enjoyable but not necessarily a good use of time. That said, even culture doesn't necessarily hae inherent value compared to other activities.
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Any time not spent gaining essentials for survival and using them to survive is a waste of life.

Virtually anything anybody does is stupid, meaningless drivel in the grand scheme of things so we may as well let people waste their life however they want.
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I like Ebert but this is probably among the dumbest things he's ever said.

CedarPointcp posted...

broken zeus are you zeus?

Zeus faded away and classified himself as obsolete. Otherwise there's some backstory on Hellhole.

Blightzkrieg posted...

Isn't he dead.

Pretty sure there was a movie about him not being dead. No, wait, that was another god.
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Broken_Zeus posted...

CedarPointcp posted...
broken zeus are you zeus?


Zeus faded away and classified himself as obsolete. Otherwise there's some backstory on Hellhole.

Please tell me you bleached a white stripe in your hair, too!
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notanoob74 posted...

"For most gamers, video games represent a loss of those precious hours we have available to make ourselves more cultured, civilized and empathetic" - Roger Ebert, the world's most renowned film critic.

I can't help but to agree. Especially for games that you can sink thousands of hours into with no actual ending such DotA, League(I have over 4000 hours in this game and was basically addicted to from 2010-2015), WoW, etc. You have basically sunk thousands of hours into a worthless skill and have looked at the same map, the same characters, the same repetitive task to the point where you've been basically working a job for free without producing anything for society. And what do you gain from it? If I had spent those hours instead watching 2000 films or 500 books, I would have become more cultured and way more interesting and nuanced of a person to talk to.

Go ahead, rationalize away fellas.

I wonder how many people won't notice this part.
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Broken_Zeus posted...

There are a lot of things you can do all day which are enjoyable but not necessarily a good use of time.

What constitutes a good use of time varies from person to person, it's entirely subjective, so why constrain yourself to the pre-approved activities of your social groups?
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Sensual_T_Rex posted...

notanoob74 posted...

"For most gamers, video games represent a loss of those precious hours we have available to make ourselves more cultured, civilized and empathetic" - Roger Ebert, the world's most renowned film critic.

I can't help but to agree. Especially for games that you can sink thousands of hours into with no actual ending such DotA, League(I have over 4000 hours in this game and was basically addicted to from 2010-2015), WoW, etc. You have basically sunk thousands of hours into a worthless skill and have looked at the same map, the same characters, the same repetitive task to the point where you've been basically working a job for free without producing anything for society. And what do you gain from it? If I had spent those hours instead watching 2000 films or 500 books, I would have become more cultured and way more interesting and nuanced of a person to talk to.

Go ahead, rationalize away fellas.

I wonder how many people won't notice this part.

What is there to notice? Video games can act as a part of expression just like any book or movie. One reason why game design is not as vaulted as the other arts is because in the past they were not branded by those who made the games. We don't know who designed Chess or checkers or a lot of the old abstracts. Even classic card games like Hearts or Spades, we don't know who designed them. They just happened. Therefore there wasn't much celebration in those achievements by anonymous people.' To just be like "games can't teach you things or make you feel anything and leave you with nothing to share to the world" is a just a stupid statement for Ebert and others to make.

SkynyrdRocker posted...

If you're having fun playing those games, you haven't wasted your time

So if you spend every single hour of your life "having fun" while only being a drain on society, you aren't wasting your time. By that logic, a drug addict who lives an entirely hedonistic life is also not wasting his time.

It's a matter of opinion I guess.

Broken_Zeus posted...

SkynyrdRocker posted...

If you're having fun playing those games, you haven't wasted your time

Well... that can't be the only criteria. There are a lot of things you can do all day which are enjoyable but not necessarily a good use of time. That said, even culture doesn't necessarily hae inherent value compared to other activities.

You're gaining culture vs gaining nothing. Culture is critical in society because it's the only thing that separates us humans from an alien society where they are all just mindless drones focused only on research and production.
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From where are you gleaning the inherent culture value in different forms of entertainment?
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Roger Ebert! Movie critic? Isn"t watching movies an equal waste of tine when you could actually be out doing things instead of just watching?

Or I might say that video games are an active pursuit, while watching movies is just passive.
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wah_wah_wah posted...

I like Ebert but this is probably among the dumbest things he's ever said.

Ebert is generally skeptical of video games, which is ironic because book critics once scoffed at film as a form of art.

MasterGakke posted...

Broken_Zeus posted...

CedarPointcp posted...
broken zeus are you zeus?


Zeus faded away and classified himself as obsolete. Otherwise there's some backstory on Hellhole.

Please tell me you bleached a white stripe in your hair, too!

Yessss! And it's MARVELOUS!

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Broken_Zeus posted...

There are a lot of things you can do all day which are enjoyable but not necessarily a good use of time.

What constitutes a good use of time varies from person to person, it's entirely subjective, so why constrain yourself to the pre-approved activities of your social groups?

Not exactly. There are things people need to do -- and are therefore of importance -- and then recreational activities. While priorities may vary, you can broadly establish certain things as being a better use of time than others.
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notanoob74 posted...

Broken_Zeus posted...

SkynyrdRocker posted...

If you're having fun playing those games, you haven't wasted your time

Well... that can't be the only criteria. There are a lot of things you can do all day which are enjoyable but not necessarily a good use of time. That said, even culture doesn't necessarily hae inherent value compared to other activities.

You're gaining culture vs gaining nothing. Culture is critical in society because it's the only thing that separates us humans from an alien society where they are all just mindless drones focused only on research and production.

Technically you're gaining culture while gaming as well, since culture is an incredibly diverse subject. And, broadly speaking, culture is of less inherent value than practical activities. Doubly so in terms of value to society, since science -- for instance -- has a greater potential for improving the overall existence of a people.
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Broken_Zeus posted...

Ebert is generally skeptical of video games, which is ironic because book critics once scoffed at film as a form of art.

I'm aware of that and I know he was saying it for years before he passed. I used to just fault it for ignorance but as he went on about it (recently as 2010) he was becoming stupid about it.

Broken_Zeus posted...

notanoob74 posted...

Broken_Zeus posted...

SkynyrdRocker posted...

If you're having fun playing those games, you haven't wasted your time

Well... that can't be the only criteria. There are a lot of things you can do all day which are enjoyable but not necessarily a good use of time. That said, even culture doesn't necessarily hae inherent value compared to other activities.

You're gaining culture vs gaining nothing. Culture is critical in society because it's the only thing that separates us humans from an alien society where they are all just mindless drones focused only on research and production.

Technically you're gaining culture while gaming as well, since culture is an incredibly diverse subject. And, broadly speaking, culture is of less inherent value than practical activities. Doubly so in terms of value to society, since science -- for instance -- has a greater potential for improving the overall existence of a people.

There's things a well-designed game can express that other forms of media cannot. Which is why they exist. Maybe Ebert's frustration with video games was how they negatively influenced Hollywood big budget movies which basically look like video games and have video game logic without any of the interactivity that makes it good. Or maybe he was just an old fart. I don't know. Either way his reasoning on that never made sense and will never make sense.

Broken_Zeus posted...

notanoob74 posted...

Broken_Zeus posted...

SkynyrdRocker posted...

If you're having fun playing those games, you haven't wasted your time

Well... that can't be the only criteria. There are a lot of things you can do all day which are enjoyable but not necessarily a good use of time. That said, even culture doesn't necessarily hae inherent value compared to other activities.

You're gaining culture vs gaining nothing. Culture is critical in society because it's the only thing that separates us humans from an alien society where they are all just mindless drones focused only on research and production.

Technically you're gaining culture while gaming as well, since culture is an incredibly diverse subject. And, broadly speaking, culture is of less inherent value than practical activities. Doubly so in terms of value to society, since science -- for instance -- has a greater potential for improving the overall existence of a people.

ok so say you're right that in many games you gain culture. What about people who spend thousands of hours in League, DotA, CS:GO, and similar games? After they learn all of the characters, all of the moves, what else is there to gain?
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notanoob74 posted...

Broken_Zeus posted...

notanoob74 posted...

Broken_Zeus posted...

SkynyrdRocker posted...

If you're having fun playing those games, you haven't wasted your time

Well... that can't be the only criteria. There are a lot of things you can do all day which are enjoyable but not necessarily a good use of time. That said, even culture doesn't necessarily hae inherent value compared to other activities.

You're gaining culture vs gaining nothing. Culture is critical in society because it's the only thing that separates us humans from an alien society where they are all just mindless drones focused only on research and production.

Technically you're gaining culture while gaming as well, since culture is an incredibly diverse subject. And, broadly speaking, culture is of less inherent value than practical activities. Doubly so in terms of value to society, since science -- for instance -- has a greater potential for improving the overall existence of a people.

ok so say you're right that in many games you gain culture. What about people who spend thousands of hours in League, DotA, CS:GO, and similar games? After they learn all of the characters, all of the moves, what else is there to gain?

Why'd you keep playing it, then? You do know that not everybody who likes playing games does so like that, right?
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I can understand if someone said you should read books instead of video as reading books can improve the mind in so many ways.

Watching a movie takes zero brain power and is a more vapid activity than playing games imo

green dragon posted...

I can understand if someone said you should read books instead of video as reading books can improve the mind in so many ways.

Watching a movie takes zero brain power and is a more vapid activity than playing games imo

Eh

A lot of the areas of your brain being stimulated aren't exactly areas you'd want stimulated.

Depends on the game of course. But if it's something like World of Warcraft or a phone game that's using the same methods as gambling it's probably not good. And that kind of money making strategy is becoming more and more common in the industry with things like lootboxes.

Like you said, it depends on the game. a lot of the games I play make me think about how to problem solve. Some of the games I play even feature a lot of reading of lore.

Either way, I'm not really stimulated by movies the same way I'm stimulated by games.

But ebert does kinda have a point. You probably get more culture from watching movies than playing games

green dragon posted...

Like you said, it depends on the game. a lot of the games I play make me think about how to problem solve. Some of the games I play even feature a lot of reading of lore.

Either way, I'm not really stimulated by movies the same way I'm stimulated by games.

But ebert does kinda have a point. You probably get more culture from watching movies than playing games

I'm not too sure Speed 2 (thumbs up by Ebert) is the place for culture. That's the quality that is stupid about his argument, is the generalizations involved in both. You can tell when Ebert thinks of a standard movie, he thinks of Citizen Kane. When he thinks of a standard video game, he thinks of shit like Pong.

green dragon posted...

I can understand if someone said you should read books instead of video as reading books can improve the mind in so many ways.

How so? I've never understood how reading books (in particular as opposed to any other form of literature) in any way improves your mind. And no one ever really explains how that is, either. They can expose you to new ideas, but it's just a passive activity reading words on a page that tell you how to think. No different than passively watching images on a screen that tell you a story.

Games are an active pursuit that can not only let you personally experience absolutely anything, but learn more about yourself as a person through your actions.

The only way I can give Ebert a pass on that comment is that it was stated in a time where gaming hadn't matured as much either technologically or artistically. In the modern day, there is no excuse for holding that opinion.

Snuggletoof posted...

How so?

Off of the top of my head,there's a correlation with having a higher iq, preventing dementia, and I'm sure there is more .

learning things makes your brain denser. An argument can be made that you're learning things when playing video games

I've always found it frustrating that drug/alcohol bar and frat party culture is accepted, but video games aren't. Alcohol will make people lack empathy and compassion, because that's what those type of substances will do to your brain. People who are involved in that kind of culture are generally the most terrible people in our society, yet only media entertainment forms like video games are blamed.
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Yeah, I don't get it either. I really don't think video games are that bad, but when someone brings up the whole "you could use your time doing something else", I feel bad because I really could've used my time learning new things (like how to play an instrument ).

MasterGakke posted...

Why'd you keep playing it, then? You do know that not everybody who likes playing games does so like that, right?

alright so would you agree that there is a problem with spending thousands of hours in those types of games? if I can get one person to agree with that, I will feel that I've succeeded with this thread.
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wah_wah_wah posted...

What is there to notice? Video games can act as a part of expression just like any book or movie. One reason why game design is not as vaulted as the other arts is because in the past they were not branded by those who made the games. We don't know who designed Chess or checkers or a lot of the old abstracts. Even classic card games like Hearts or Spades, we don't know who designed them. They just happened. Therefore there wasn't much celebration in those achievements by anonymous people.' To just be like "games can't teach you things or make you feel anything and leave you with nothing to share to the world" is a just a stupid statement for Ebert and others to make.

I take it you didn't see the part of TCs statement that I bolded out. So I'll crop it for you.

If I had spent those hours instead watching 2000 films or 500 books, I would have become more cultured and way more interesting and nuanced of a person to talk to.

Do you get the irony of what TC is trying to say about Ebert.
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this coming from a film critic? seriously? did he hold the same opinion about movies, or is he a hypocrite?
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notanoob74 posted...

MasterGakke posted...

Why'd you keep playing it, then? You do know that not everybody who likes playing games does so like that, right?

alright so would you agree that there is a problem with spending thousands of hours in those types of games? if I can get one person to agree with that, I will feel that I've succeeded with this thread.

Well, yeah, anything you get addicted to and neglect other aspects of your life as a result is bad. But that's on you, man, not video games. And I don't say that maliciously, life isn't easy. If you had gotten addicted to reading and watching movies and neglected other aspects of your life to your detriment, would that have somehow been better?
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notanoob74 posted...

"For most film critics, film games represent a loss of those precious hours we have available to make ourselves more cultured, civilized and empathetic" - Roger Ebert, the world's most renowned film critic.

I can't help but to agree. Especially for films that you can sink hours into with no actual meaning such Transformers and Marvel. (I have over 4000 hours in just watching Marvel movies from 2010-2015), Star Wars, etc. You have basically sunk thousands of hours into a worthless skill and have looked at the same plot, the same characters, the same repetitive task to the point where you've been basically working a job for free without producing anything for society. And what do you gain from it? If I had spent those hours instead playing 200 video games or 500 books, I would have become more cultured and way more interesting and nuanced of a person to talk to.

Go ahead, rationalize away fellas.

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I've basically stopped playing videogames, gives me more time to watch fanservice anime and toy reviews on YouTube.

lol ebert
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Blightzkrieg posted...

I've basically stopped playing videogames, gives me more time to watch fanservice anime and toy reviews on YouTube.

my niece watches some youtuber who just plays with toys. it kills me to think grown ass people get paid to play with toys on youtube. (she has enough subscribers i'm sure shes making something)
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Judgmenl posted...

notanoob74 posted...

"For most film critics, film games represent a loss of those precious hours we have available to make ourselves more cultured, civilized and empathetic" - Roger Ebert, the world's most renowned film critic.

I can't help but to agree. Especially for films that you can sink hours into with no actual meaning such Transformers and Marvel. (I have over 4000 hours in just watching Marvel movies from 2010-2015), Star Wars, etc. You have basically sunk thousands of hours into a worthless skill and have looked at the same plot, the same characters, the same repetitive task to the point where you've been basically working a job for free without producing anything for society. And what do you gain from it? If I had spent those hours instead playing 200 video games or 500 books, I would have become more cultured and way more interesting and nuanced of a person to talk to.

Go ahead, rationalize away fellas.

Who has more to talk about, someone who has played 4000 hours of DotA or someone who has watched 2000 films? I'm sure showing a girl your invoker stats will get her soaking wet.
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notanoob74 posted...

Judgmenl posted...

notanoob74 posted...

"For most film critics, film games represent a loss of those precious hours we have available to make ourselves more cultured, civilized and empathetic" - Roger Ebert, the world's most renowned film critic.

I can't help but to agree. Especially for films that you can sink hours into with no actual meaning such Transformers and Marvel. (I have over 4000 hours in just watching Marvel movies from 2010-2015), Star Wars, etc. You have basically sunk thousands of hours into a worthless skill and have looked at the same plot, the same characters, the same repetitive task to the point where you've been basically working a job for free without producing anything for society. And what do you gain from it? If I had spent those hours instead playing 200 video games or 500 books, I would have become more cultured and way more interesting and nuanced of a person to talk to.

Go ahead, rationalize away fellas.

Who has more to talk about, someone who has played 4000 hours of DotA or someone who has watched 2000 films? I'm sure showing a girl your invoker stats will get her soaking wet.

and i'm sure talking about countless movies will too. unless she also is a movie buff, and then which can be said if you are lucky enough to find a girl who plays the same games as you. which my best friend did. i've actually heard them argue over whos going to watch the child so the other can play a video game lol.
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

Any time not spent gaining essentials for survival and using them to survive is a waste of life.

Virtually anything anybody does is stupid, meaningless drivel in the grand scheme of things so we may as well let people waste their life however they want.

This, assuming you were being sarcastic with the first statement.

In a nihilistic/existential universe every activity is objectively valueless but subjectively valuable, so any activity which produces happiness may be inferior to another activity but is never a 'waste' of time.
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Joelypoely posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Any time not spent gaining essentials for survival and using them to survive is a waste of life.

Virtually anything anybody does is stupid, meaningless drivel in the grand scheme of things so we may as well let people waste their life however they want.

This, assuming you were being sarcastic with the first statement.

In a nihilistic/existential universe every activity is objectively valueless but subjectively valuable, so any activity which produces happiness may be inferior to another activity but is never a 'waste' of time.

yes to me happiness is the second most important thing in life right after survival.
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He died a while ago. He's an old man who didn't grow up with video games and didn't get the chance to understand them. Let it go.

FrozenBananas posted...

He died a while ago. He's an old man who didn't grow up with video games and didn't get the chance to understand them. Let it go.

yeah once upon a time tv was considered a horrible thing that rotted your brain. and hell the inventor of the technology for movies thought it would be a passing fad.
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Dated man with dated opinions.

mooreandrew58 posted...

notanoob74 posted...

Judgmenl posted...

notanoob74 posted...

"For most film critics, film games represent a loss of those precious hours we have available to make ourselves more cultured, civilized and empathetic" - Roger Ebert, the world's most renowned film critic.

I can't help but to agree. Especially for films that you can sink hours into with no actual meaning such Transformers and Marvel. (I have over 4000 hours in just watching Marvel movies from 2010-2015), Star Wars, etc. You have basically sunk thousands of hours into a worthless skill and have looked at the same plot, the same characters, the same repetitive task to the point where you've been basically working a job for free without producing anything for society. And what do you gain from it? If I had spent those hours instead playing 200 video games or 500 books, I would have become more cultured and way more interesting and nuanced of a person to talk to.

Go ahead, rationalize away fellas.

Who has more to talk about, someone who has played 4000 hours of DotA or someone who has watched 2000 films? I'm sure showing a girl your invoker stats will get her soaking wet.

and i'm sure talking about countless movies will too. unless she also is a movie buff, and then which can be said if you are lucky enough to find a girl who plays the same games as you. which my best friend did. i've actually heard them argue over whos going to watch the child so the other can play a video game lol.

Films and novels will heighten your vocabulary, give you knowledge of stories that can be discussed and enhance your own creativity thus making you better at storytelling in day to day conversation, and they will make you more empathetic to viewpoints you otherwise never thought of, whereas a thousand hours in DotA will likely make you bitter and unsociable with nothing to show for those hours.
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notanoob74 posted...

mooreandrew58 posted...

notanoob74 posted...

Judgmenl posted...

notanoob74 posted...

"For most film critics, film games represent a loss of those precious hours we have available to make ourselves more cultured, civilized and empathetic" - Roger Ebert, the world's most renowned film critic.

I can't help but to agree. Especially for films that you can sink hours into with no actual meaning such Transformers and Marvel. (I have over 4000 hours in just watching Marvel movies from 2010-2015), Star Wars, etc. You have basically sunk thousands of hours into a worthless skill and have looked at the same plot, the same characters, the same repetitive task to the point where you've been basically working a job for free without producing anything for society. And what do you gain from it? If I had spent those hours instead playing 200 video games or 500 books, I would have become more cultured and way more interesting and nuanced of a person to talk to.

Go ahead, rationalize away fellas.

Who has more to talk about, someone who has played 4000 hours of DotA or someone who has watched 2000 films? I'm sure showing a girl your invoker stats will get her soaking wet.

and i'm sure talking about countless movies will too. unless she also is a movie buff, and then which can be said if you are lucky enough to find a girl who plays the same games as you. which my best friend did. i've actually heard them argue over whos going to watch the child so the other can play a video game lol.

Films and novels will heighten your vocabulary, give you knowledge of stories that can be discussed and enhance your own creativity, they will make you more empathetic to viewpoints you otherwise never thought of, whereas a thousand hours in DotA will likely make you bitter and unsociable with nothing to show for those hours.

never had a movie heighten my vocabulary. and as said before such words I would potentially learn from a movie or a book are useless as most people don't use them. i've tried using larger or more uncommonly used words before in everyday life, more often than not it just causes people to think i'm a pretentious dick who thinks hes smarter than everyone.
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