Board 8 > Obama's administration wiretapped Trump's campaign

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foolm0r0n
09/19/17 4:08:46 PM
#101:


Peace___Frog posted...
L O L
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(Am i doing this right, guys)

O C C A M ' S P I Z Z A C U T T E R
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Peace___Frog
09/19/17 4:20:33 PM
#102:


foolm0r0n posted...
Peace___Frog posted...
Both have incentives to smudge conclusions and analyses. I believe that mega corporations have greater incentives to smudge underlying data. I believe that governments have greater incentive to have accurate underlying data as it's a public good in the same way that the government has an incentive to have a bridge that doesn't fall apart.

Fine, but why do you think that stops at news? Why are megacorps better for news when they are worse for everything else?

That's a good question that I'm not really able to answer. I think it's more of a power incentive for governments to dictate the news, whereas non governments aren't 100% aligned with the state. Everything should be met with a critical mind, but in terms of current events i think non government sources are more likely to be more factual. Similar for history - I'm much more likely to believe an academic than a government regarding the story of a past event, assuming that past event has any national significance.
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Vlado
09/19/17 4:23:22 PM
#103:


Peace___Frog posted...
foolm0r0n posted...
Peace___Frog posted...
Both have incentives to smudge conclusions and analyses. I believe that mega corporations have greater incentives to smudge underlying data. I believe that governments have greater incentive to have accurate underlying data as it's a public good in the same way that the government has an incentive to have a bridge that doesn't fall apart.

Fine, but why do you think that stops at news? Why are megacorps better for news when they are worse for everything else?

That's a good question that I'm not really able to answer. I think it's more of a power incentive for governments to dictate the news, whereas non governments aren't 100% aligned with the state. Everything should be met with a critical mind, but in terms of current events i think non government sources are more likely to be more factual. Similar for history - I'm much more likely to believe an academic than a government regarding the story of a past event, assuming that past event has any national significance.

It's not about government or private entity. It's about power. Whoever is in power, or controlled by the one in power, has the biggest incentive to lie. Those in power must lie and deceive to keep it. Looking at Trump now, does anyone actually believe the US president is really in power? The deep state is in power. Thus, their tools (such as CNN) are most likely to lie.
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Mr Lasastryke
09/19/17 4:26:45 PM
#104:


Vlado posted...
Whoever is in power, or controlled by the one in power, has the biggest incentive to lie.


then why doesn't putin lie? he's in power in russia, right?
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foolm0r0n
09/19/17 4:27:47 PM
#105:


Vlado you accidentally quoted my post bro! Be careful or you might end up reading it
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Vlado
09/19/17 4:30:27 PM
#106:


Mr Lasastryke posted...
Vlado posted...
Whoever is in power, or controlled by the one in power, has the biggest incentive to lie.


then why doesn't putin lie? he's in power in russia, right?

Because, as far as foreign policy goes at least, as I already said, it's currently in Russia's interest to reveal the truth.

foolm0r0n posted...
Vlado you accidentally quoted my post bro! Be careful or you might end up reading it

Do you want me to answer your question or something? Megacorps are worse for anything in general. Exceptions are possible, but looking at the world right now, which government is worse than google or facebook? None. The answer would've been the same even if Clinton had won the election and democrats had super majority.
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Peace___Frog
09/19/17 4:34:03 PM
#107:


Vlado posted...

It's not about government or private entity. It's about power. Whoever is in power, or controlled by the one in power, has the biggest incentive to lie. Those in power must lie and deceive to keep it. Looking at Trump now, does anyone actually believe the US president is really in power? The deep state is in power. Thus, their tools (such as CNN) are most likely to lie.

This discussion was much more constructive before you joined in.
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foolm0r0n
09/19/17 4:41:53 PM
#108:


Vlado posted...
but looking at the world right now, which government is worse than google or facebook?

How many MILLIONS of people have google and facebook killed?

If the answer is less than 1, then there are OVER 100 governments worse than them

Just because google and facebook expose you to facts and make you feel like a shitty person for being a raging white supremacist idiot, does not make them worse than genociders and dictators who starve/blow up entire nations
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Peace___Frog
09/19/17 4:44:45 PM
#109:


foolm0r0n posted...
Vlado posted...
but looking at the world right now, which government is worse than google or facebook?

How many MILLIONS of people have google and facebook killed?

If the answer is less than 1, then there are OVER 100 governments worse than them

Just because google and facebook expose you to facts and make you feel like a shitty person for being a raging white supremacist idiot, does not make them worse than genociders and dictators who starve/blow up entire nations

But there are GAY PEOPLE on those websites!
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Not_an_Owl
09/19/17 5:00:16 PM
#110:


Peace___Frog posted...
foolm0r0n posted...
Vlado posted...
but looking at the world right now, which government is worse than google or facebook?

How many MILLIONS of people have google and facebook killed?

If the answer is less than 1, then there are OVER 100 governments worse than them

Just because google and facebook expose you to facts and make you feel like a shitty person for being a raging white supremacist idiot, does not make them worse than genociders and dictators who starve/blow up entire nations

But there are GAY PEOPLE on those websites!

And JEWS!
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Peace___Frog
09/19/17 5:07:02 PM
#111:


Ah shit, i used Google earlier this year to find out when the holy days are. And i used android software to remind me yesterday that Rosh Hashanah is this week!
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Cybat
09/19/17 5:26:13 PM
#112:


XD another classic Vlado topic

Vlado posted...
Whoever is in power, or controlled by the one in power, has the biggest incentive to lie. Those in power must lie and deceive to keep it.



Unless, like, they don't.

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Vlado
09/20/17 3:11:23 AM
#113:


Peace___Frog posted...
Vlado posted...

It's not about government or private entity. It's about power. Whoever is in power, or controlled by the one in power, has the biggest incentive to lie. Those in power must lie and deceive to keep it. Looking at Trump now, does anyone actually believe the US president is really in power? The deep state is in power. Thus, their tools (such as CNN) are most likely to lie.

This discussion was much more constructive before you joined in.

If by "constructive" you mean "blabbering without revealing the core of the issue," sure.

foolm0r0n posted...
Vlado posted...
but looking at the world right now, which government is worse than google or facebook?

How many MILLIONS of people have google and facebook killed?

If the answer is less than 1, then there are OVER 100 governments worse than them

Just because google and facebook expose you to facts and make you feel like a shitty person for being a raging white supremacist idiot, does not make them worse than genociders and dictators who starve/blow up entire nations

Killing someone is evil. Poisoning the minds of billions and leading them to spiritual death is infinitely worse.

If satisfying our bodily desires becomes the goal of life, as google, facebook and all the other nihilists want, we become no better than animals.
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Terastodon
09/20/17 4:55:57 AM
#114:


Ok, if satisfying bodily desires shouldn't be the goal of life, what should be?
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Vlado
09/20/17 5:03:35 AM
#115:


Strong morality, constant mental and spiritual improvement in strive for perfection (even if perfection is impossible), raising good children and teaching them to know right from wrong, contributing to your family, people and nation through your activities.
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Jakyl25
09/20/17 6:02:11 AM
#116:


Why should we care about our nation?
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TheRock1525
09/20/17 6:15:52 AM
#117:


Someone is gonna have to explain that if Trump claimed he was personally wiretapped and this is his vindication, why didn't he say from the very beginning when he made the claim that this was his proof?

Like why wouldn't he just come out and say "they wiretapped my campaign manager" and offer up the evidence months ago instead of just hoping a prolonged Russian investigation would lead to this non-tangential fact getting out?
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Vlado
09/20/17 6:19:54 AM
#118:


Meanwhile, "global warming" nonsense admitted to have been greatly exaggerated:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/09/19/delingpole-climate-alarmists-finally-admit-we-were-wrong-about-global-warming/

lol
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Vlado
09/20/17 6:20:42 AM
#119:


Jakyl25 posted...
Why should we care about our nation?

Because we are stepping on the shoulders of giants. Those who were before us made it possible for us to be who we are.
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Terastodon
09/20/17 6:21:06 AM
#120:


Jakyl25 posted...
Why should we care about our nation?

More pointedly, why should I care about people within any (relatively recent) human designed boundary more than any other group of people?
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Peace___Frog
09/20/17 7:01:38 AM
#121:


You know vloldo is getting desperate when he uses literally breitbart as a source
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LapisLazuli
09/20/17 9:08:47 AM
#122:


Lol Breitbart.
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Gmun
09/20/17 9:14:44 AM
#123:


Vlado posted...
Killing someone is evil. Poisoning the minds of billions and leading them to spiritual death is infinitely worse.

Vlado posted...
Meanwhile, "global warming" nonsense admitted to have been greatly exaggerated:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/09/19/delingpole-climate-alarmists-finally-admit-we-were-wrong-about-global-warming/

lol

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Jakyl25
09/20/17 9:56:06 AM
#124:


Terastodon posted...
Jakyl25 posted...
Why should we care about our nation?

More pointedly, why should I care about people within any (relatively recent) human designed boundary more than any other group of people?


Pretty sure Vlado thinks national borders are naturally-occurring phenomenon
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Peace___Frog
09/20/17 11:44:39 AM
#125:


Oh boy, wait until he learns about the impact of colonialism.
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foolm0r0n
09/20/17 1:01:54 PM
#126:


Vlado posted...
Killing someone is evil. Poisoning the minds of billions and leading them to spiritual death is infinitely worse.

And this is why you are an enormous raging socialist/collectivist who will fall for ANY government propaganda that even slightly panders to your brand of morality.

Governments can dress up their killing and genocide in any number of political issues to suit fickle minds such as yours. Nationalism? Definitely worth KILLING MILLIONS. Banning gay marriage? Yup, that simply requires KILLING LITERALLY MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. Video games are a danger to a moral and godly society? Sure, KILL THE BILLIONS OF GA--oh wait that includes me wait please I change my mind I don't want to die don't kill me please oh god why won't my precious government listen to me anymore I thought they were my personal tool of oppression there's no way they could turn on me when I voted for them and defended them on twitterrrrrrr

Nah that's an exaggeration, you would give up video games the INSTANT your government asked you to, and pretend you hated them your whole life. Not a single question about it. What's the price of one or a hundred small freedoms, for following God's true path in life (i.e. following whatever your government says).
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CherryCokes
09/20/17 1:14:13 PM
#127:


how dare the FBI wiretap someone they suspect has committed a federal crime
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Peace___Frog
09/20/17 1:24:25 PM
#128:


that was... incredibly well-written, foolmo.
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foolm0r0n
09/20/17 1:24:55 PM
#129:


CherryCokes posted...
how dare the FBI wiretap someone they suspect has committed a federal crime

I mean it's only a violation of the 4th amendment but whatever
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Anagram
09/20/17 1:37:31 PM
#130:


I don't know what possessed me to click on this topic and read the first thirty posts, but it's gone now, and so am I.
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MoogleKupo141
09/20/17 2:23:38 PM
#131:


Vlado posted...
Jakyl25 posted...
Why should we care about our nation?

Because we are stepping on the shoulders of giants. Those who were before us made it possible for us to be who we are.


yeah by murdering all the natives and owning slaves and shit

those guys sucked, fuck 'em
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CherryCokes
09/20/17 11:19:01 PM
#132:


foolm0r0n posted...
CherryCokes posted...
how dare the FBI wiretap someone they suspect has committed a federal crime

I mean it's only a violation of the 4th amendment but whatever


Not by the loosey-goosey standards applied to the Patriot Act
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foolm0r0n
09/20/17 11:21:39 PM
#133:


CherryCokes posted...
Not by the loosey-goosey standards applied to the Patriot Act

Sure but you're implying some sort of obvious moral acceptability of this clearly immoral act
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Vlado
09/21/17 2:55:58 AM
#134:


foolm0r0n posted...
Governments can dress up their killing and genocide in any number of political issues to suit fickle minds such as yours. Nationalism? Definitely worth KILLING MILLIONS. Banning gay marriage? Yup, that simply requires KILLING LITERALLY MILLIONS OF PEOPLE. Video games are a danger to a moral and godly society? Sure, KILL THE BILLIONS OF GA--oh wait that includes me wait please I change my mind I don't want to die don't kill me please oh god why won't my precious government listen to me anymore I thought they were my personal tool of oppression there's no way they could turn on me when I voted for them and defended them on twitterrrrrrr

Citation needed.

MoogleKupo141 posted...
Vlado posted...
Jakyl25 posted...
Why should we care about our nation?

Because we are stepping on the shoulders of giants. Those who were before us made it possible for us to be who we are.


yeah by murdering all the natives and owning slaves and shit

those guys sucked, fuck 'em

lmao, let's focus on one or two bad things and ignore the thousands of good things. Thank goodness our predecessors didn't think like you, as we would've still lived in caves.
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Seginustemple
09/21/17 4:38:19 AM
#135:


Thank goodness our predecessors did think like that or we'd still be living in Europe
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MoogleKupo141
09/21/17 5:28:31 AM
#136:


lmao, let's focus on one or two bad things and ignore the thousands of good things. Thank goodness our predecessors didn't think like you, as we would've still lived in caves.


maybe we deserve caves because the thousands of good things don't outweigh genocide and slavery
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Vlado
09/21/17 5:33:41 AM
#137:


If you think you deserve caves, go right ahead. There are plenty of caves. I don't.

Civilisation was built on the blood of millions of people of all races, whether we like it or not. And precisely out of respect for all who sacrificed their lives to get us here, we must preserve and expand their legacy while being careful not to repeat their mistakes!

We must aim for the stars!
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Vlado
09/21/17 6:18:05 AM
#138:


Meanwhile, even CNN writing the truth about Russian operations in Syria. Perhaps tides really are starting to change...
https://archive.is/ftCaH
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Peace___Frog
09/21/17 7:00:41 AM
#139:


Vlado posted...
Citation needed.

Citations are not needed when the information presented is common knowledge that everyone with a brain recognizes to be factual.
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Vlado
09/21/17 7:38:53 AM
#140:


Peace___Frog posted...
Vlado posted...
Citation needed.

Citations are not needed when the information presented is common knowledge that everyone with a brain recognizes to be factual.

I haven't heard of governments killing millions of gay people or gamers, but whatever you say.

Furthermore, nationalism is an ideology of peace. Who opposes the US wars around the world? Nationalists. Who supports them? Globalists and globalist puppets.
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Terastodon
09/21/17 8:05:51 AM
#141:


Vlado posted...

Furthermore, nationalism is an ideology of peace.

No it's not. It's an inherent pride in your own people's and belief in their superiority. It has no feelings towards war or peace and in fact, nationalism would encourage war for the right to independence and self governance.

There is no peaceful nationalist ideologies - the closest you get is isolationism which doesn't have to have a nationalist background at all.
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Vlado
09/21/17 8:10:14 AM
#142:


It's not about superiority. That's chauvinism. I know that the marxist mental poison has made lots of people lump all sorts of right-wing policy together, but us thinking people still know and retain the real meanings of words.
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kevwaffles
09/21/17 8:17:43 AM
#143:


Vlado posted...
It's not about superiority. That's chauvinism.

I think I just got whiplash from that swerve.
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foolm0r0n
09/21/17 11:46:46 AM
#144:


Vlado posted...
I haven't heard of governments killing millions of gay people

No shit, because your worldview is based in ignorance. Must you have heard of something, for it to be true? Obviously not. It's your responsibility to seek the truth (or maybe you believe the government should feed it to you like a baby?). In this case it's extremely easy to find examples of gay genocide. Fortunately you didn't dispute the validity of nationalist genocide, which was my main point anyways.

The gamer genocide was a hypothetical extrapolation of your same philosophy in an attempt to MAYBE get you to empathize with the genocide victims for once.
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Espeon
09/21/17 12:07:29 PM
#145:


Vlado posted...
Furthermore, nationalism is an ideology of peace.


Which is exactly why nationalist group ISIS is just so darned peaceful in their terrorism.
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foolm0r0n
09/21/17 12:59:35 PM
#146:


Sure, every sociali- err I mean nationalist state in history has been highly totalitarian, oppressive, outwardly aggressive, and damaging to its people. But they just didn't implement socialism-- I mean nationalism correctly. In theory, nationalism ok fine, I'm making an equivalence to socialism is super ideal and peaceful and prosperous!
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Mr Lasastryke
09/21/17 4:18:53 PM
#147:


foolm0r0n posted...
Sure, every sociali- err I mean nationalist state in history has been highly totalitarian, oppressive, outwardly aggressive, and damaging to its people.


false for socialism.
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foolm0r0n
09/21/17 4:20:01 PM
#148:


Do you have examples that don't include hyper-capitalist countries simply because they have high taxes or whatever?
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Mr Lasastryke
09/21/17 4:22:21 PM
#149:


define "hyper-capitalism"?

pretty sure it's impossible for socialist countries to exist without being capitalist (otherwise you'd be getting into communist territory) so probably not.
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Vlado
09/21/17 4:22:51 PM
#150:


Espeon posted...
Vlado posted...
Furthermore, nationalism is an ideology of peace.


Which is exactly why nationalist group ISIS is just so darned peaceful in their terrorism.

A band of mercenaries is as far removed from nationalism as is possibly imaginable.

foolm0r0n posted...
Vlado posted...
I haven't heard of governments killing millions of gay people

No shit, because your worldview is based in ignorance. Must you have heard of something, for it to be true? Obviously not. It's your responsibility to seek the truth (or maybe you believe the government should feed it to you like a baby?). In this case it's extremely easy to find examples of gay genocide. Fortunately you didn't dispute the validity of nationalist genocide, which was my main point anyways.

The gamer genocide was a hypothetical extrapolation of your same philosophy in an attempt to MAYBE get you to empathize with the genocide victims for once.

Citation still needed. I know gay people have been killed occasionally, but millions? Please.

foolm0r0n posted...
Sure, every sociali- err I mean nationalist state in history has been highly totalitarian, oppressive, outwardly aggressive, and damaging to its people. But they just didn't implement socialism-- I mean nationalism correctly. In theory, nationalism ok fine, I'm making an equivalence to socialism is super ideal and peaceful and prosperous!

It's funny you're "appropriating" nationalist memes. Only goes to show that we are intellectually superior and you need to "borrow" from us.
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