Poll of the Day > What's the deal with extra small calibre, high power rifles?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Seems... umm,

Ok, I don't know things about guns - I've been watching some ARES videos lately and weapons tests and such. One of the notes from the old EM-2 tests is that the Americas did not want a round smaller than .30 since they wanted the same carts for both emplaced machine guns as well as combat rifles. (Their T25 was the competitor at the time)

Anyways... As I understand it the damage of a bullet is force*mass, like, well, everything ever. So why wouldn't a supersonic (cute little) 22LR do more damage than a subsonic .308? (or the 6mm PPC)
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https://i.redd.it/f9d1zo7qa8oz.jpg
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not sure, but I think rifle rounds get mass from being long, not (just) thick. sort of like an arrow, you want something narrow and long so that you have all the mass behind it focusing through it into the front. just a guess though.
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Distance and dependable/predictable paths of the round
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Picking a round isn't just about the energy of the bullet. There's a shit ton that goes into it. Recoil, size, weight, etc.

For instance, the weight of a cartridge of 7.62x39 is about 16 grams. A .223 cartridge is roughly 12 grams.

Multiply that by about 210 and you have a difference of about two pounds. Doesn't seem like much, but every pound adds up on your back. And that's just the rounds.
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Ya, I saw a video on the Hornet .22
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Lokarin posted...

As I understand it the damage of a bullet is force*mass, like, well, everything ever

That's the force of the bullet, not necessarily the damage that it does. Some high power rounds basically just zip right through a person with all that force behind them. Still deadly, but not as bad as a lower powered round that breaks apart or tumbles sideways through the person on impact.
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There's way more to ballistics than just bullet weight. A 308 bullet weighs more than 3x as much as a 22lr and it goes twice as fast. But that's not even getting into things like ballistic coefficients (basically how aerodynamic the bullet is)
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@Lokarin This is the first topic that has interested me in a while, post bruh
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Then there are the types of bullets, like full metal jacket, hollow point, etc

Lokarin posted...

Ya, I saw a video on the Hornet .22

.22 hornet is a pretty cool round but it has no real use outside of target shooting or maaaaybe small varmints.
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TIE543 posted...

Lokarin posted...

Ya, I saw a video on the Hornet .22

.22 hornet is a pretty cool round but it has no real use outside of target shooting or maaaaybe small varmints.

Ya, i was using it as an example of higher power, small calibre
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TIE543 posted...

Lokarin posted...

Ya, I saw a video on the Hornet .22

.22 hornet is a pretty cool round but it has no real use outside of target shooting or maaaaybe small varmints.

Squirrel hunting with a scoped 22 is fun af
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsxXfGHlgUA

Here's your 22 caliber hopped up on roids and hgh.
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Also, funny story

https://globalnews.ca/news/3776082/alberta-police-dog-accidentally-fires-handgun-found-after-parking-lot-fight/?
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Just fyi, 22lr is mostly supersonic and there is a 30 cal round that is commonly used subsonic, .300 Blackout, which has about the same energy as a 45 ACP when it's subsonic which has more oomph than 22lr by a sizable margin
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The .22 round is also known to tumble as it's centrifugal force from the rifling falls off. The practical upshot of this is people have been hit in the ankle with a .22 round and had the thing run straight up their legs thru their organs and rattle around their brain case a few times. Small rounds IMO are far more dangerous than larger rounds because the larger rounds at least remain stable in their trajectories far more readily than unpredictable small calibers at distance.
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WhiskeyDisk posted...

The .22 round is also known to tumble as it's centrifugal force from the rifling falls off. The practical upshot of this is people have been hit in the ankle with a .22 round and had the thing run straight up their legs thru their organs and rattle around their brain case a few times. Small rounds IMO are far more dangerous than larger rounds because the larger rounds at least remain stable in their trajectories far more readily than unpredictable small calibers at distance.

I'll take kinetic energy over hoping that a bullet tumbles.
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XlaxJynx007 posted...

WhiskeyDisk posted...

The .22 round is also known to tumble as it's centrifugal force from the rifling falls off. The practical upshot of this is people have been hit in the ankle with a .22 round and had the thing run straight up their legs thru their organs and rattle around their brain case a few times. Small rounds IMO are far more dangerous than larger rounds because the larger rounds at least remain stable in their trajectories far more readily than unpredictable small calibers at distance.

I'll take kinetic energy over hoping that a bullet tumbles.

Don't get it twisted, when I still had my pistol permit back in CT, I carried a .40. I would never *rely* on a small bullet doing something crazy. Had I been older and wiser, I probably would have carried a 9mm as it would have been sufficient for my purposes and weighed half as much, all I'm saying is that .22 rounds *can* do more damage than it is typically given credit for. Flesh and bone is no match for any sized piece of metal travelling a thousand plus feet per second.
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WhiskeyDisk posted...

XlaxJynx007 posted...

WhiskeyDisk posted...

The .22 round is also known to tumble as it's centrifugal force from the rifling falls off. The practical upshot of this is people have been hit in the ankle with a .22 round and had the thing run straight up their legs thru their organs and rattle around their brain case a few times. Small rounds IMO are far more dangerous than larger rounds because the larger rounds at least remain stable in their trajectories far more readily than unpredictable small calibers at distance.

I'll take kinetic energy over hoping that a bullet tumbles.

Don't get it twisted, when I still had my pistol permit back in CT, I carried a .40. I would never *rely* on a small bullet doing something crazy. Had I been older and wiser, I probably would have carried a 9mm as it would have been sufficient for my purposes and weighed half as much, all I'm saying is that .22 rounds *can* do more damage than it is typically given credit for. Flesh and bone is no match for any sized piece of metal travelling a thousand plus feet per second.

I shoot 9mm because 40 barely has more energy but is snappy as shit. Plus it costs more and holds less rounds. It is panic proof though...

.357 Sig has me interested but I've never gotten one.
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I carried a Steyr. An inch lower in the hand than a Glock, but about 10x easier to strip and clean, plus I really love Steyr's sights. If I ever decided to jump through the hoops to get my permit in NY, I would probably sell the .40 for the 9mm version though. You're right, half the kick and almost no noticeable difference in stopping power unless you're shooting at a bear or something you shouldn't be doing with a pistol anyway. I'd have to short the magazine though because of round limits, at least my .40 is NY-legal as is. Alas, I was like 22 years old when I got my permit and didn't consider the ramifications of having to wear a jacket all summer to cover a paddle back rig or what having a small anvil under my left arm was going to be like in the long term...
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I had a Steyr, the thing was uncomfortable as hell to hold, it's not an inch lower either, it's barely lower lol
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XlaxJynx007 posted...

I had a Steyr, the thing was uncomfortable as hell to hold, it's not an inch lower either, it's barely lower lol

I felt the same way about the glock, the steyr definitely sits lower but if you had one of the Pakistani military overrun versions, they were not the same even though they had the same model number, and those were total crap.
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