Board 8 > Rankings from a Lurker: Danganronpa (heavy spoilers for DR, DR2, and DRV3)

(+) Yeah! (+)

RaidenZeroX posted...

I was so happy at the start of case 5, because I figured that Chiaki would never kill anyone and seemed too important to be a victim. I was so ignorant. My favorites almost always die!

take solace in the fact she was the murderer in the best case in the series

5. Gundham Tanaka
Appears in: Danganronpa 2
Ultimate Identity: Breeder
Endearing Character Trait: Burn in the fires of pandemonium

Gundham is the best, obviously. I was tempted to put him first, but the rest of the characters on the list probably end up doing more interesting things, while Gundham is just pure coolness through and through.

His ultimate identity is "breeder," which really disturbs me, so I've always considered him to be the Ultimate Pokemon Trainer. His repeated references to gyms says as much. However, I also kind of like the idea that he's just the "ultimate kid in charge of taking care of the class pet" trope. The four dark devas are also superstars as well.

All of this to say that Gundham might be a "gimmick" character, but he's an insanely well-done gimmick character. One reason it works is because his voice acting is top notch. He's like an over-the-to mixture of Dr. Orpheus and uhhh Vegeta I guess. That makes him sound dumb, but he really isn't.

We talked about this a little with Sonia, but Gundham has a surprising amount of heart. A highlight of the series for me is Chapter 4 in DR 2. The idea of Gundham and Mechamaru having this secret battle to save the rest of the gang... feels good man. His final words before his execution about not giving up on life and to keep living are probably more inspirational than any other words in the series save Kaito.

Also, his character design is really good.

Next: It's Nagito.

colliding posted...

I was tempted to put him first

I mean, this would be correct
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Listen you fuck.

I already know your little game is gonna be USO DA YOOOOOO and it's Ouma.

Don't taunt me.
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whether LTM is right or not that's one hell of a hint
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LapisLazuli posted...

Listen you fuck.

I already know your little game is gonna be USO DA YOOOOOO and it's Ouma.

Don't taunt me.

What can I say, you just get me.

4. Kokichi Ouma
Appears in: Danganronpa V3
Ultimate Identity: Supreme Leader
Endearing Character Trait: That one sprite... you know the one

I lied.

Like I said, I was hoping you all could save some of your Nagito/Kokichi debate for a few more rankings. In this ranking, I don't want to merely compare the two characters. Kokichi stands on his own merits quite well, despite the fact that people's first impressions might be to say "he's Nagito-lite" or "he's Nagito except likeable." I don't think either of those are quite accurate.

Kokichi starts off as just a weird, annoying kid. In a lot of people's playthroughs, I've noticed a similar sort of appraisal. Who is this kid? Why is is just aggravatingly mean to K1-B0? What's with this "insect meet n'greet" BS? Suffice it to say, I didn't enjoy him at the beginning of this game, as he just seemed like an obvious antagonist.

Thankfully, Kokichi gets more interesting as the game goes on, coming to a head in Case 4. There are very few characters I've ever hated more in the entire second part of the trial. The end of the case, when you find the message in the ground - another top moment in the series. The game builds up to Kokichi being the mastermind really well.

And then, he actually isn't the mastermind. This is at once annoying and also kind of genius, if, like me, you think of Kokichi having a second "ultimate" ability (like Makoto) - the ultimate liar. Cause he really is. He really is the perfect embodiment of the themes that V3 was working with.

Still, I can't help but feel a little disappointed with Kokichi's plan in Chapter 5. Maybe I have more of a problem with it resolving with Kaito just sort of admitting to the plan at the end. Like, the fact that the "unsolvable murder" is actually quite "solvable".... nyeh. Also, I don't quite buy what people were saying earlier about Kokichi being one of the only characters willing to sacrifice for the killing game to end, like he's actually some really good guy. I think he's more of just a Loki type figure living to mess up the status quo no matter what it is. I don't buy any arguments that this dude felt any sort of real emotions toward the rest of the cast.

A few random thoughts: 1) What was up with his "crew" or whatever? Like Kaede's twin, are they just thrown in there for no reason? 2) Kokichi is like if Batman and the Joker had a kid. 3) I tried to find a picture of him at "full evil" but instead I found a bunch of really disturbing fanart. Yikes.

Next: A male character from Goodbye Despair.

Come on now, Kokichi is NOT Loki.


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Skimmed the ranking. Glad to see Nagito rated so high!
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For me, I don't know. Kokichi's character never came "together" for me. I think the constant lies, then saying he was lying.... or was he?? got a little annoying. He takes the "rival" archtype to a much higher extreme than Nagito or Byakuya. Plus there is the fact that a good amount of Kokichi's development happens after he is gone. Which isn't BAD, but without the character actually there it loses something.
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I get why Kokichi is a controvertial character. It would be hypocritical of me not to recognize that and ignore the haters while simultaneously saying that Byakuya is my most hated character in all of fiction.

But fuck, he sure as hell stuck the landing for me.
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Gundam too low.

Also Kokichi being the mastermind was a bit too obviously fake. Did anyone believe that?
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Only finished V3 yesterday so I'm joining super late.

Kokichi felt like a poor man's Nagito to me for most of the game even if there are some differences between the two. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Kokichi probably had the most movement on my personal character ranking through the game. He spent the first third to half of the game near the bottom but kept growing on me, and around Chapter 4 is where I really started liking him a lot.

I actually thought his "pretend to be the Mastermind" stunt in Chapter 5 was silly though and hurt my impression of him. Ironically, Kaito was the best Kokichi because Case 5 "Kokichi" was the best. Although he apparently wrote most of his lines in advance so maybe it can count.

Also skimming the argument from before, I don't think Kokichi is some kind of tragic hero or anything. I really feel like I should remember more details than this having just beaten the game but looking back I'm not sure why his whole "end the game" plan required manipulating Gonta in Case 4 and pretending to be the mastermind. All he really needed to accomplish was the Case 5 scenario and honestly he was just incredibly lucky it worked out for him there as well as it did. (By contrast, Nagito had complete and utter faith in his luck - for good reason - and weaponized it, so it felt earned that he could execute plans that relied on luck)

DRV3 Case 5 was my favorite V3 case though (and 2nd in the series only to DR2 Case 5) and I did like his plan to trick Monokuma so I give him props for that, and he's probably still a Top 5 V3 character for me.
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Really? I thought 6 was quite a bit better than 5, though I can see people not liking 6 if they don't like the ending I guess. I liked 1 better too.
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I'm alright with the ending. I just have weird and contradictory feelings about it. Might be that I'm still processing it.

Part of me thinks it would have been better if they actually ended it with the "Bad End" part before you briefly take over as Keebo. Another part of me thinks they were too in-your-face with the meta stuff (I like meta stuff and even expected it because they had been telegraphing it most of the game and stopped pretending to hide it during Chapter 5 but at times I was thinking "whoa chill a bit this is a bit too repetitive can we instead discuss the implications some more instead of just hammering home the fiction stuff another 20 times".)

And another feels like they unnecessary seemed to walk it back/cast doubt on the whole thing in the Epilogue which just felt like a silly decision to me (even if some valid issues were raised.) Would have been better if they let it end after the Punishment movie. Keebo noting the moving rubble and ignoring it to finish things was hint enough that the group survived. And I think leaving some of the possible inconsistencies with the pre-prologue with the Case 6 revelations unaddressed and a matter of debate rather than Shuichi raising them up and suggesting an answer contrary to the case's point would have been better.

I feel like those thoughts are a bit of a mess, gonna blame it on still processing. >_>
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Oh yeah, that's all fair. It definitely would've been better to end the game a bit sooner. The post credits scene wasn't good.
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xp1337 posted...

(By contrast, Nagito had complete and utter faith in his luck - for good reason - and weaponized it, so it felt earned that he could execute plans that relied on luck)

I had the exact same thought in my head
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Kaito admitted to the plan at the end because Shuichi blew his cover. Monokuma would have known if Shuichi spotted Kokichi, so the fact that he lied about it showed what his endgame was. Sure, Kaito could have continued to play along, but Monokuma would have been wise to his tricks at that point.

Personally, Kokichi's defining moment for me was when he pretended to be murdered. Up until that point he had just been "kind of a dick", but that showed me exactly what kind of person he was. Then Chapter 4 happened.

I'm actually kind of surprised Gundham's so popular. I don't think he's a bad character or anything, I just didn't feel he stood out. He's not what "defines" DR to me.
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I think a huge part of Kokichi's appeal to me is how even who he is as a character is completely up to your belief in which of his acts are lies and truths? There is no way to know 100% for sure which of his claims of stances were genuine, meaning you just have to decide for yourself what aspects of Kokichi you chose to beleive in as being "him". It's why 2 people could have the exact same taste in characters and STILL come out on completely opposite stances in regards to him based on what they decide is a lie. To some people that concept alone is a turnoff.

And in comparison to Nagito, who after his reveal is completely one note, has all of his motivations spelled out, and is the exact same character from start to finish.....he's just superficially entertaining. There's weak substance to me there. I would have liked Nagito MUCH more if he had perhaps started to show regret or normalize, only to have his discovery in the escape room, which he has now entered with more determined intentions, causing him to completely regress to his former self. THAT is a better Nagito to me. Unfortunately, as time passes and especially after V3, he's dipped a few spots in the overall ranking.
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3. Hajime Hinata
Appears in: Danganronpa 2
Ultimate Identity: Hope/Izuru Kamukura/ Reserve Course
Endearing Character Trait: JYB vibes

Hajime's the best protag. That alone gets him a high spot in the rankings. He's the best protag because he's not the vanilla blandness of Makoto, nor is he a black hole of unlikability like Shuichi. Despite him being the ultimate ??? for most of the game, he handles the cases with aplomb, reacts realistically to situations, and figures things out rather well. Admittedly, a lot of this is due to personal taste - JYB does a good job with his voice and his "objection" music is my favorite music from the series (as I mentioned earlier).

His backstory helps deepen the DR universe in a way that doesn't feel like a forced retcon. It makes sense to me that there's a "reserve course" and that they would all get merked during the Tragedy. Him actually being a really scary looking Gonta-type dude named Izuru Kamukura is pretty interesting. I'll never forget "Chapter zero" or whatever in Goodbye Despair, where you see this evil swirl of hair and Nagito with Junko's fucking hand attached to his arm. Hell yeah, these are the types of whacked out plot developments that DR is all about.

The triangle between he, Chiaki and Nagito is so interesting that when two of them are taken off the table in Chapter 5, the story seems to dip a bit. It's really up to Hajime after that to carry on the momentum of the plot and I think he succeeds fairly well.

Next: One of the best character arcs in video games.

So #2 is Fuyuhiko and 1 is Nagito, it looks like?
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and despair wins in the end
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colliding posted...

Endearing Character Trait: JYB vibes

V3's greatest sin.
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...colliding, do you work for CNN?

http://cnneurope.de/2017/10/29/news/komaeda-found-alive
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Shuichi > Hajime > Naegi as far as protagonists go for me. Shuichi's friendships and actions in the last chapter sufficiently impressed me to raise him over hajime.
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Honestly, as long as Makoto is last.
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ya'll are too hard on Makoto for the reasons already outlined above. but me ranking him above shuichi probably has more to do with my distaste for shuichi than a love for makoto. I enjoyed playing as shuichi and I get what they were trying to do with his character, but I also think he doesn't quite succeed in the role the writers laid out for him.

2. Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu
Appears in: Danganronpa 2
Ultimate Identity: Yakuza Boss
Endearing Character Trait: Don't FUCK with me!

If Shuichi is an example in an ultimately failed character arc, then Fuyuhiko is absolutely one of the best I've witnessed in videogames. It's not just the fact that he goes from "openly antagonistic" to a "team player," like Byakuya, it's the fact that Fuyuhiko goes from irredeemably broken to positively heroic.

Fuyuhiko definitely starts as a little turd, there's no getting around that. The fact that the team could make a baby-faced Yakuza poseur turn likable by the end is testament to their ability.

Best thing about Fuyuhiko's arc is that the writers don't wait until Chapter 5 to start it. From Peko's execution, to Fuyuhiko's recovering, to his opening up his stitches apologizing, to his continued relevance to the plot throughout chapters 4, 5, and 6, the player witnesses this evolution in a gradual softening of his demanor and language. He's still a strong character, but he has resolve now. We learn more about Fuyuhiko than we do about most characters: his sister, his anxieties over being a yakuza, his over reliance upon Peko.

So yeah, Fuyuhiko rules.

Next: It's Nagito.

Fuyuhiko fucking rules.
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1. Nagito Komaeda
Appears in: Danganronpa 2
Ultimate Identity: Lucky Student
Endearing Character Trait: He Beat Cancer

I guess Nagito is a polarizing character - this is somewhat surprising to me, as I assumed he would be universally praised for being a unique deconstruction of the first game's themes. In choosing good ol Papenbrook to come back, we see the twisted dualisms of luck and hope. His motivations are completely backwards and often non-sensical, but that's part of what makes him so compelling.

To start on a completely shallow level: his character design isn't all that interesting, aside from the coat, which is pretty cool.

Nagito being the first character Hajime meets is fairly indicative of his appearance: it's not Chiaki, Fake Byakuya, or Mikan... it's Nagito. Players are disoriented due to the familiarity of the voice and his suspicious nature. Even though Nagito is fairly harmless at the beginning, as soon as the killing game starts, his blind allegiance to "hope" really ramps up.

This makes some sense within the DR universe: if an abstract concept like "despair" can make Junko infect the entire world with crazy, it makes sense that "hope" wouldn't just be found within the relatively sane actions of Makoto. No, a blind obsession with hope would have the same potential for insanity.

Nagito continues the "anti-Makoto" characterization through his luck. We sort of took it for granted in DR1 that "luck" meant predominantly "good luck." With Nagito, we see the "bad luck" counterbalance. Which naturally leads to the utter brilliance of Goodbye Despair chapter 5. Nothing in V3 comes close to matching it (the closest is probably Kiyo's SEESAW power). Seeing Nagito using his luck powers in such crazy, almost mystical ways was super compelling. His cruelty, in the name of "hope," to create a murder that would reveal the traitor is so batshit, but again, a twisted form of heroism.

With Nagito, we also get that great bit where we take control of him and solve the "Virtues Last Reward" minigame in strawberry house. I still don't understand Othello so I have no idea how I got through that, but it was a great moment and a nice break from Hajime.

So yeah, Nagito is tops. The end.

"Crazy hope" isn't a bad concept, but Nagito's utter obsession with it is annoying, just as Junko's obsession with despair is. I also don't like his self-loathing and general lack of self-awareness.

also his luck is stupidly broken and this is made even more apparent in DR3

I (mostly) get the appeal and I'll commend the writers for his character, I just don't like him at all
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I really like the voice actor for Fuyuhiko/Kokichi. I can't remember the exact phrasing, but I love the line during the fifth class trial where it's something like "How could he stab his right hand with his right hand?" Just, the amount of exasperation in his voice there is perfect. He gives both characters the right amount of whine in their voice, which intentionally undermines Fuyuhiko's persona and adds to the playfulness of Kokichi.
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colliding posted...

I guess Nagito is a polarizing character - this is somewhat surprising to me, as I assumed he would be universally praised for being a unique deconstruction of the first game's themes.

This might be the disconnect as someone who actively does not care a ton about DR1 and esoecially not Makoto.
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CasanovaZelos posted...

I really like the voice actor for Fuyuhiko/Kokichi. I can't remember the exact phrasing, but I love the line during the fifth class trial where it's something like "How could he stab his right hand with his right hand?" Just, the amount of exasperation in his voice there is perfect. He gives both characters the right amount of whine in their voice, which intentionally undermines Fuyuhiko's persona and adds to the playfulness of Kokichi.

One of the best VAs in the series for sure, and I can vividly remember that line. Generally DR always has good voice work, though it's always got the odd black spot of the 3 worst performances being....the 3 primary characters of DR1.
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Not gonna lie, Kokichi's VA is probably one of the reasons I like him so much

Mostly because I keep imagining the Digimon Emperor trolling everyone and it's great
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Remember that time Ouma tried to fuck Nagito?


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Meh. Never liked Fuyuhiko. Didn't think any of his development was really interesting or unique.

colliding posted...

Hajime's the best protag. That alone gets him a high spot in the rankings. He's the best protag because he's not the vanilla blandness of Makoto, nor is he a black hole of unlikability like Shuichi. Despite him being the ultimate ??? for most of the game, he handles the cases with aplomb, reacts realistically to situations, and figures things out rather well. Admittedly, a lot of this is due to personal taste - JYB does a good job with his voice and his "objection" music is my favorite music from the series (as I mentioned earlier).

Kaede still way better than the other protagonists tbqh. Neither vanilla nor unlikable, and also much smarter than the other three!
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colliding posted...

His cruelty, in the name of "hope," to create a murder that would reveal the traitor is so batshit, but again, a twisted form of heroism.

Erm, that wasn't his goal, was it? I thought he wanted them to pick the wrong person and all get killed because he figured out they were the Ultimate Despairs.
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The list, in all its "glory," with annotations.

Box of Tissues
48. Hiyoko Saionji (I don't regret this ranking)
47. Leon Kuwata (I just remembered how 11037 came back in DR2 and now I wish he was higher)

Monkey Paw
46. Mahiru Koizumi (Thinking back on "Twilight Syndrome..." maybe should have been higher)
45. Celestia Ludeberg (Still not a fan)
44. Korekiyo Shinguji (not good)
43. Teruteru Hanamura (still a sentimental favorite, definitely deserving of a low ranking though)
42. Ultimate Imposter (maybe too high actually)
41. Sayaka Maizono (could've been lower tbh)

Secret Boots
40. Tsumugi Shirogane (i'll take "missed opportunity" for 400 Alex)
39. Hifumi Yamada (haters to the back)
38. Kiyotaka Ishimaru (I like him, but yeah, boring)
37. Peko Pekoyama (higher, maybe?)
36. Mondo Owata (nothing to add here)
35. Angie Yonaga (I forgot to mention her annoying sprites... or did I)
34. Akane Owari (whatever)
33. Tenko Chabashira (I agree with everyone. should have been higher in retrospect)
32. Kazuichi Soda (lower... way lower)
31. Gonta Gokuhara (no regrets. this dude is boring and totally not mentally challenged)

Rose in Vitro
30. Sakura Ogami (fine where she is)
29. Kirumi Tojo (top tier character design, wtf backstory and chapter)
28. Nekomaru Nidai (difficult character to rank)
27. Himiko Yumeno (I think a straight swap of her and Tenko makes sense)
26. Yasuhiro Hagakure (probably too high, but whatever, I think he's funny)
25. Sonia Nevermind (I apologize for "smells like teen waifus" - I was reaching for a Nirvana ref)
24. Mukuro Ikusaba (way too high, don't know what I was thinking)
23. Ryoma Hoshi (this is fine)
22. Mikan Tsumiki (hated her voice)
21. Chihiro Fujisaki (ehhh, I kind of hate Chihiro. I could see him falling lower)

Eternal Friendship Bracelet
20. K1-B0 (Didn't even mention his fanservice stuff with Miu)
19. Aoi Asahina (way too high, I see this now. But, you know, breasts)
18 Shuichi Saihara (Shuichi sux)
17. Toko Fukawa (so annoying. If a DR fan tells you Toko/GJ is their favorite, run away)
16. Ibuki Mioda (If I made a separate list of favorites based purely on personality, then sure. higher)
15. Miu Iruma (doujin bait)
14. Makoto Naegi (deal with it.)
13. Rantaro Amami (I'll take "missed opportunity" for 600, Alex. It's a daily double)
12. Kaito Momota (you're gonna carry that weight)
11. Junko Enoshima (No way she deserves top 10. 11 is perfect for her).

Hope's Peak Class Ring
10. Maki Harakawa (Maybe too high, I dunno. Too cliche?)
9. Byakuya Togami (He was originally going to be 4 on my first draft)
8. Kaede Akamatsu (Only in series for one chapter, still in top 10. Sounds right)
7. Chiaki Nanami (Again, I hate the idea of this character, but I can't argue against her impact)
6. Kyoko Kirigiri (Too high, probably)
5. Gundham Tanaka (The evil eye told me not to make him #1)
4. Kokichi Ouma (plus, his character design is stupid)
3. Hajime Hinata (so cool)
2. Fuyuhiko Kuzuryu (you've come a long way)
1. Nagito Komaeda (fight me)

Mac Arrowny posted...

colliding posted...

His cruelty, in the name of "hope," to create a murder that would reveal the traitor is so batshit, but again, a twisted form of heroism.

Erm, that wasn't his goal, was it? I thought he wanted them to pick the wrong person and all get killed because he figured out they were the Ultimate Despairs.

Yeah, I really hope colliding didn't fuck up and get Nagito's most critical action in the game wrong <_<
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Although I can't quite remember, did he figure out the traitor would be a good guy and was hoping they would be the murderer and get away with it? Or maybe that's not ever revealed since he was, you know, dead <_<
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Mac Arrowny posted...

Although I can't quite remember, did he figure out the traitor would be a good guy and was hoping they would be the murderer and get away with it? Or maybe that's not ever revealed since he was, you know, dead <_<

Yes, his plan was for the traitor to be the killer, get away, followed by the execution of all the Remnants, thus the point I brought up earlier of Nagito failing his final goal.
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I think Nagito somehow believed the 'traitor' agreed with him on the idea that the others deserved to die for being the Remnants. The reason he ultimately failed is because Chiaki was too good and well-intentioned to not come forward; no amount of luck could change Chiaki's personality. Nagito misunderstood what good really meant.
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Yeah, like Mac said, Nagitos plan was for the traitor to graduate and everyone else to be executed, since he found out they were Ultimate Despairs

edit: beaten to the punch twice lol
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Wow, I didn't even get that Nagito wanted everyone killed. Obviously he put faith into his Luck to catch the traitor, but I thought he did it so the traitor would be uncovered.
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Me, misremember something? Never!

Regardless of his motivations it's still the best set-up/murder in the series

Nagito's plan was to engineer a situation in which the culprit would be decided by pure luck (who grabbed the poison) and would be unknowable to anyone, including the culprit themselves. Furthermore, thanks to his Ultimate Luck the plan went that the traitor would be the one to pick the poison and be the culprit. Since it was otherwise unknowable who was responsible, the survivors would have to choose at random - unless of course, the traitor outed themselves, as it happened.

Nagito's intention being to create a scenario in which the traitor was the culprit but no one had any way to determine that so that they (the only non-Despair participant) would get away with it and the others (Remnants of Despair, including himself) would die. It's no coincidence that he began to set-up for this at the same time he learned the truth about everyone's background in Chapter 4's Investigation.

However, the fact that he made the video that gave the survivors the password suggest that he was aware of - and okay with - the outcome of the Remnants of Despair winning the trial. If he absolutely wasn't, there was no need for him to divulge that info, the traitor would have had it already. It's consistent with his beliefs that if the Remnants of Despair won, it meant that their hope prevailed against the traitor's, as well as the bleak situation Nagito himself set up. Although, I'll admit to some extent this is up to interpretation.
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Some people say Nagito plan was stupid because relying on his luck for that...is idiotic
But I disagree, it's one of the few cases where a Ultimate Talent was important

I wish it actually was more common in the series, but instead we have a Mage that can't even do magic tricks, a Astronaut that never went to space, a survivor that was the first victim, a tennis player that wasn't even the best tennis player

Then you have hacks like Miu, Chihiro and Nagito
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Some of V3's talents read like they were running out of ideas a bunch of seasons into a show or something.

;)
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Har har.

I did think it was kinda weird that we were getting another "Ultimate Detective", only for it to be plot-relevant.
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