Board 8 > Just watched Saw for the first time.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Is this really supposed to be the best one of the seven (soon to be eight) that they made? >_>

Trying to do a horror movie a day this month and hadn't seen any of these, so I thought I'd fill up a good week with this series, but I'll probably pass if this is the best it has to offer. Big twist aside it was utterly mediocre, silly and even boring at times IMO.
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If you didn't like that you probably aren't going to like any of them
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love saw
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DeathChicken posted...

If you didn't like that you probably aren't going to like any of them

That's unfortunate. The setup, idea and general look of the movie were all really great and made me want to like it. The flashback structure and unraveling of the movie towards the end was just too much, though. By the time the cop was chasing down the orderly I was fully checked out and just waiting for it to end. Even Gordon sawing his foot off barely brought me back. Jigsaw being the man in the middle was clever, though. I wish more of the movie had that kind of thought put in to it.
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Xiahou Shake posted...

Is this really supposed to be the best one of the seven (soon to be eight) that they made? >_>

Trying to do a horror movie a day this month and hadn't seen any of these, so I thought I'd fill up a good week with this series, but I'll probably pass if this is the best it has to offer. Big twist aside it was utterly mediocre, silly and even boring at times IMO.

Saw is great. If you didn't like it, either you don't like that part of the genre or you have become snobby in your movie tastes.

I state the latter as people who watch a lot of movies tend to develop this over time and can't enjoy normal movies really. I catch myself falling into that rut at times.
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I'm a marshmallow who watched the first SAW to challenge himself and toughen up.

Instead of toughening up, I got bored and just waited for the movie to end.

Jigsaw being in the middle wasn't even a good plot twist and the flashbacks to everything hinting that he was there the entire time was just felt forced.

Having read summaries of future movies, it just looks like everything goes downhill from there.
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What makes the Saw movies so interesting to me, is their devotion to the plot and trying to iron out every plot hole the can.
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I think Saw II is the best personally.

The ones after that I still enjoy but I wouldn't classify as good
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Crystallized some real thoughts on the movie overnight, will probably breakdown what I liked and didn't in a post later tonight, if anyone would care for a little back and forth.
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Saw II is the best

I think the best takeaway from the Saw franchise is the incredible performance of Tobin Bell as John Kramer, and that's in full force in II

If you watch II and still don't like it don't bother with the rest though
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John Kramer is like the only real horror icon to come out of the 00s, but he is like top tier.
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2 is fine but the series goes pretty down hill from there

the finale ending is so bad
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I actually found 2 to be one of the worst in the franchise. I actually really like the franchise though. 2 just felt far more over-the-top than necessary.
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GANON1025 posted...

What makes the Saw movies so interesting to me, is their devotion to the plot and trying to iron out every plot hole the can.

Xiahou Shake posted...

DeathChicken posted...

If you didn't like that you probably aren't going to like any of them

That's unfortunate. The setup, idea and general look of the movie were all really great and made me want to like it. The flashback structure and unraveling of the movie towards the end was just too much, though. By the time the cop was chasing down the orderly I was fully checked out and just waiting for it to end. Even Gordon sawing his foot off barely brought me back. Jigsaw being the man in the middle was clever, though. I wish more of the movie had that kind of thought put in to it.

I agree with most of this. I think the thing that really got to me when I watched it last year was when there was that 'flashback' to the wife and son's experiences. That took place between like either the black light or the wallet pictures being found or something, and the clock shows like an hour has passed. I can understand time passing with earlier flashbacks or the sawing attempts, but seriously. It's been an hour or two since you got your last clue, and you've done jack all about even discussing or trying things? Like, that just threw me out because, unless the clock is being ****ed with by Jigsaw, these two are idiots who are barely trying to get out in the ample amount of time given to them. Every other death trap is either insanely quick or painfully painfully drawn out and long. There's a freaking key right at the start that slips into the drain. If that were obtained anytime before the last little while, there'd be no need for such a long long time. Hell, pretty much anything could happen with a bit more work to cause this trap to be doomed.

Sorry, ranting. But it does start out intriguing ,but just completely falls apart halfway through.
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The stupid thing is that the key is foreshadowing something in the sequel.

*spoilers for SAW II and III*
Namely that Jigsaw has an accomplice who likes setting up unwinnable "games".
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FFDragon posted...

John Kramer is like the only real horror icon to come out of the 00s, but he is like top tier.

But what about Hoffman
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Man I want to watch Saw 2 now
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I didn't like 1 either (ending was alright but the rest was ugh), but did like 2 and somewhat 3. The rest of them, not really. The 3d/"last" one was like Asylum level crap, I'm shocked the new one isn't a total remake after that train wreck.

Saw 2 is probably my favorite of the bunch, but I enjoyed the whole series. My favorite thing about it was how each movie was connected. I would say at least watch the first three before you give up.
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I'd agree with watching the first 3
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*SPOILERS FOR THE WHOLE FIRST MOVIE*
Okay I'm finally home and can talk about this a bit. I've actually decided I'm going to watch the second movie tonight, but I'm going to get these thoughts out there while they're still pure.

The Great
Dr. Lawrence Gordon. I'm going to go ahead and assume that, short of John Kraemer himself, the series will never have another character this good. I was instantly endeared to him by his calm, collected approach to his situation. Then, through flashbacks, you see how flawed he is, taking that same cool approach with his family life to pretty rocky results. Seeing him transform through Jigsaw's game into the kind of man who would do anything for his family was a delight. I spent the whole movie wishing they would build on the flashback where the girl who survived one of Jigsaw's game said "he helped me." By the end, we see exactly what she meant to a crazy degree with Gordon. He may have lost a foot, but he gained a hell of a better outlook towards life and his family. If he managed to crawl his way to safety, I feel safe betting he'll be an infinitely better person for this experience, which makes Jigsaw's games all the more intriguing as well.

The Twist. I feel like I don't really need to say much about this one. Very well foreshadowed, exceedingly clever and had a splendid amount of "oomph" behind it. I can only imagine this one had people buzzing coming out of the theater.

The Good
Everything that happens in the bathroom. As I said earlier, the entire setup of this movie is really appealing to me. The bathroom has been totally burned into pop culture to such a point that, even having never seen this movie before, it felt very familiar to me. Watching Adam and Gordon feel eachother out, discover clues and puzzle out their situation, slowly heating up into a completely unhinged climax was marvelous.

Gordon + Adam flashbacks. Flashbacks are great in cases like this where they give us meaningful insight into our characters and what might motivate them through their remarkably twisted situation. Gordon's flashbacks actually carry the brunt of what makes his transformation through Jigsaw's game so powerful, as I mentioned earlier. Adam's flashbacks feel at first like they come too late, but their revelations are perfectly timed to continue pushing Gordon to where he's going.
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The Bad
Non-Gordon + Adam flashbacks. I feel like giving us a quick montage of Jigsaw's greatest hits before we see even one of his games run its course makes Gordon and Adam's situation immediately less interesting. I'd be fine with them just sitting in the room and talking about what they've heard about Jigsaw, but the montage is lame. It wreaks of the writers wanting to jam in all the sick-nasty-cool ideas they came up with but couldn't fit into the movie. Also the cop. Holy shit I don't care about him AT ALL. He contributed absolutely nothing to the movie beyond an excuse to see John Kraemer dressing like an edgelord Rocky for some reason (is he really walking around in public like that?) and one of the worst chase sequences I've ever seen in a movie.

Zep. This guy getting screentime is when I started to get really bored with the movie. He's such a non-threatening, borderline bumbling character that the climax feels largely ruined by his presence. I get that his "appeal" is he's just another guy forced to play a part in Jigsaw's game, but man this guy just sucks.

The Ugly
Audience reminders. This really bothered the crap out of me. Every time the movie has a revelation that was at all foreshadowed, they do the rapid cut-aways and bring up all the scenes that foreshadowed it. The fact that this happens constantly makes it feel like James Wan considers his audience to be a bunch of drooling morons, and feels borderline insulting in a movie featuring a genius meticulously crafting games and puzzles.

The structure of the game. I expect to catch a bit of shit for this, but I really don't like the way Jigsaw's game ended up being structured. As much as I've fawned about its beauty in transforming Gordon, that's also it's flaw - this is Gordon's game, from beginning to end. Nothing about the way it's set up is designed to do anything interesting or provide any kind of revelation for Adam. He ultimately comes across as a sacrificial lamb for Gordon's growth, and I REALLY don't like that. Gordon gets the bullet. Gordon gets the cigarettes. He gets the lights-out clue before he unwittingly passes it to Adam. He gets a WIN CONDITION and even repeated encouragement and hints on how to kill Adam. What does Adam get? Well, he gets first dibs on the saws and a bunch of photos that make his would-be killer upset. He also gets a key to escape that he has absolutely no way of knowing about. What the fuck, Jigsaw? For how upfront and fair Jigsaw tries to be for the people he's trying to "help," his shit treatment of Adam almost completely undoes the appeal he earns for it IMO.

Erm, wow. That ended up being way the fuck longer than I expected it to be. I don't know if anyone actually cares enough to read all of that, but if you do - first, thanks. Second, I'd love to hear your thoughts! Looking back on it, the movie really can't be as bad as I felt like it was at first if it managed to get this much thought out of me. That's a big part of why I'm willing to at least give 2 and 3 a shot. Don't expect a write-up this big (or one at all) for the second, though. >_>

*SPOILERS FOR THE WHOLE FIRST MOVIE*
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Xiahou Shake posted...

Audience reminders. This really bothered the crap out of me. Every time the movie has a revelation that was at all foreshadowed, they do the rapid cut-aways and bring up all the scenes that foreshadowed it. The fact that this happens constantly makes it feel like James Wan considers his audience to be a bunch of drooling morons, and feels borderline insulting in a movie featuring a genius meticulously crafting games and puzzles.

If you hate this now, it's not getting better.

As for the key thing... remember your criticism of it if you ever watch SAW II.
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It actually becomes kind of a plot point later that Jigsaw does tend to make his games revolve around one person and anyone else there is kind of "Eh, don't give a shit" (it's also pointed out what a hypocrite this makes him). Not for like five movies though
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Another thing is that the movies are supposed to be sort of like a jigsaw puzzle themselves - the more movies you watch the more the overall plot makes sense.

I feel like that's just people putting too much faith in the writers, though - it's probably just mending plotholes in such a way that makes it seem like they were hinting at something.

Is it obvious, yet, that I hate this entire franchise?
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BowserCuffs posted...

the more movies you watch the more the overall plot makes sense.

I disagree
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CelesMyUserName posted...

BowserCuffs posted...

the more movies you watch the more the overall plot makes sense.

I disagree

Then ultimately, we are in agreement.
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DeathChicken posted...

It actually becomes kind of a plot point later that Jigsaw does tend to make his games revolve around one person and anyone else there is kind of "Eh, don't give a shit" (it's also pointed out what a hypocrite this makes him).

This actually sounds really neat!

DeathChicken posted...

Not for like five movies though

"Oh."

I did end up watching Saw 2 tonight. Was... pretty whatever. And I mean it this time, it was just mediocre in a way that isn't going to prompt me to rethink my opinion and write 1000 words on it. >_> Final twist was kind of neat and John Kramer's scenes were all pretty solid but yeah I'd say the first was better in every aspect. (I did get a hearty laugh out of the son coming out of the safe because I called it the second Kramer said "a safe place.")

I'll probably watch 3, because from what I gather it finishes the first "arc" and then all the remaining movies are ignorable? Maybe I can go straight from 3 to the new one, if that turns out to be good.
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If you don't watch after 3, you'll never see Detective "Big Man" "Stone Cold Thriller" Hoffman in action
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GANON1025 posted...

If you don't watch after 3, you'll never see Detective "Big Man" "Stone Cold Thriller" Hoffman in action

Legit not sure if this is joking or not. >_>
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