Board 8 > It's time for the family conference! (Umineko) (Can you solve this game?)

(+) Yeah! (+)

It's been a long, long time since I've come back to this old place. I had some amazing battles back in the day, but as the centuries passed I don't even remember everyone's faces anymore. I honestly thought I'd put all this behind me. But look at me now! I defeated the previous witch and have earned the right to serve as Master for this game! So I'm back, for old time's sake, seeing if anybody here still has some fight left in them... or if they'll all just leave me here, bored.

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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8EvRmTazUo3c0QtblZiVENIRkU/view?usp=sharing this is a link to a PDF containing a standalone Umineko game board. Exact knowledge of previous Umineko games is not necessary to solve this mystery, but a general understanding of the meta game is important (Blue theories vs Red facts, detective vs Witch)

I also recommend this script https://greasyfork.org/en/scripts/5157-gamefaqs-colored-text-renderer to use colored text. The tag is < red> and < blue> with </ font> to end either of them (no spaces obviously) I encourage you to keep track of the red text in the story, then try to solve the mystery by attacking me with blues or asking me to repeat reds... though it's at my discretion how I answer you! Ehehehehe!
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tag
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Gouge the topic and tag.
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(This goes without saying, but if you've already played this game board and know the solutions and stuff, please be kind and stay outta here!)
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Okay, here goes! I haven't done proper analyzing, but let's solve the first mystery first (the disappearance of the adults).

Battler fell asleep naturally at the table! It could be due to fatigue or lack of sleep, especially since he was seasick earlier!
Battler was rendered unconscious by blunt force! Battler was tazed, or electrocuted, or hypnotized!
Battler was playing a game of hide and seek and purposefully closed his eyes for a fair amount of time!
Battler has motion blindness and the adults were moving when he opened his eyes again!
Someone, likely Maria, held Battler's eyelids by force so he could not open it until later!
'The room' referred to different rooms between the red statements pertaining to this mystery!
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Oh look at this, a challenger has stepped up all at once. I'm excited to see what you can do!

(Note: did you use < blue> and </ font> for that text? For whatever reason my own text shows up as red/blue when applicable but yours is just bold/italics for me)

I can definitely clarify a few things here

When Battler opened his eyes, there was no sign anybody had touched him without him knowing it.
Battler definitely doesn't have any weird gimmicky eye diseases!
Battler was in the dining room, which is separated from the other rooms by a door you silly person!

I think I'll leave the others ambiguous for now :P

except for this! "Electrocuted" by definition means the person died, you incompetent fool! Ehehehehe
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If you're ready to tackle a real mystery, though, explain what happened to Maria!

Of course, I can just tell you, if you want...

...it was a demon, of course!
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Looks like everyone has given up and accepted it was magic. Heh, heh, heh...
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Not so fast, witch!
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Lets try a few things then. I don't believe I was part of the previous mysteries, so pardon me if I'm doing it wrong.

There was more than one white charm
Kumasawa and Genji were dismembered and thus were present in multiple rooms
Kanon, Shannon, George and Jessica were killed by something other than the stab wounds.
Battler is narcoleptic and somehow doesn't know it
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And one more for good measure.

Maria unlocked the door
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Oh, interesting attacks! But all ultimately useless!

Your first blue may or may not be true, but doesn't actually prove anything~ The red clearly states the charm can't be removed without breaking it, and that it's unbroken~~

As for Kumasawa and Genji, I won't outright deny it, but you're going to have to be much more specific before you prove a point. After all, demons LOVE dismembering and separating people :D :D

To the best of Nanjo's deduction, Kanon, Shannon, George, and Jessica were killed by stab wounds. What would a different murder weapon prove though? I'm giving you this one as a freebie!

And as for the last one...

I'll amend a previous Red:

Battler definitely doesn't have any gimmicky diseases that would need outside knowledge to understand!
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JeffreyRaze posted...

And one more for good measure.

Maria unlocked the door

Battler didn't see Maria unlock the door, and he's the detective, you know?
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Tag. I've never participated in the Umineko board games of the past, but I'd like to observe and see how they work.
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Battler closed his eyes! That's when Maria unlocked the door.

One of Kumasawa or Genji is the killer
The killer slew Kanon, Shannon, George and Jessica then left the room. They broke the charm, but replaced it with an unbroken one
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Eerieka posted...

Tag. I've never participated in the Umineko board games of the past, but I'd like to observe and see how they work.

Feel free to jump in at any point.

(spoilers: the current game board was written by someone else, but I was inspired by it so I'm working on my own original one inspired by my life on a small island. This topic is actually serving to build interest in it and recruit players!)

JeffreyRaze posted...

Battler closed his eyes! That's when Maria unlocked the door.

One of Kumasawa or Genji is the killer
The killer slew Kanon, Shannon, George and Jessica then left the room. They broke the charm, but replaced it with an unbroken one

Alright, let's shut this whole thing down now before you embarrass yourself

Maria did not let the culprit into the cousin's room

Ehehehehe! You want another one? Here we go!

There's only one magic charm!
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By the way, are ya'll closing your blue tags with </ font>? I've had to manually add a close font tag after your quotes in my post to avoid turning my own stuff blue, lol

could just be a quirk with quoting messages in this script though, in which case I can deal
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This particular witch is going to bed now, but I hope to see some useless, futile attempts to deny my existence when I wake up~
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I must admit I'm disappointed. I chose to come back to this kakera because of the great battles waged here in the past. Previous territory lords Haguile and KamikazePotato don't seem to have left much of an impression, though...
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I'm running this on another board and I think they're about to solve it, hehe
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Alright, I'm reading this thing now. Should I read the whole thing before I start working on theories?

In any case, I want to add something to Raka's blue statements about Battler losing consciousness:

Everyone who stayed for the "after dinner coffee" fell unconscious because of a drug placed in the coffee.
Battler just happened to be the first to succumb to the drug's effects.
Then someone moved all the bodies except for Battler's!

Edit: Lol, just got to the part where they discuss this. Never mind >_>
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haha, yep, no drugs!
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so after the other board solving it, someone else running one and me (and others) solving it, I decided to write my own original murder mystery

it's about ~8000 words and I posted it there a bit earlier today. I'd like to someday post it here, too, but it seems like there's no interest for this kind of board activity anymore. Let me know if I'm wrong!
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I'm interested, but I would like to just casually observe a game first. Is the other board a public board? I would be fine in surrendering (I've been busy with other things lately and haven't finished reading the one you posted anyway), it it means reading what other people came up with
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Very interested in this sort of thing, just noticed the topic now.

It's a bit too late to take a serious try at this right now (or to get the text script working), but I'll go ahead and fire a shot at least.

<blue>The culprit hid in the television room while Battler was making coffee, then killed Maria and exited the room in the time between when he opened and closed his eyes.</font>

Also, there are 18 humans on Rokkenjima. If Kinzo is dead, that would make Kyonon the 18th person? ...need to read this again.
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Eerieka posted...

I'm interested, but I would like to just casually observe a game first. Is the other board a public board? I would be fine in surrendering (I've been busy with other things lately and haven't finished reading the one you posted anyway), it it means reading what other people came up with

There's no need to sit the game out! By all means, learn by doing. There's no bad theories, after all! Every little bit helps chip away at the truth.

dexter28 posted...

The culprit hid in the television room while Battler was making coffee, then killed Maria and exited the room in the time between when he opened and closed his eyes.

Maria did not let the culprit into the room.
There was nobody in the Cousins' room before Battler and Maria entered together, and Battler locked the door.

Also, there are 18 humans on the island. Kinzo is dead, but he counts as one of the humans!

It's not too late to try! Let's finish this game so I can get to the one I wrote myself :P (And unfortunately no it's a private board, sorry)
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Okay, I'll give it a shot. I'm reading the rest of it now. Just don't give up on me!
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Alright, I've finished reading it.

I need to ask though... is this game board meant to be set up so that Shannon and Kanon are two separate people in their own bodies? Because otherwise, the sentence "Shannon, Kanon, George, and Jessica have been placed in four seats around the table" leads me to think that one of them was cleaved in two and has half a body in one chair. Alternatively, the chairs were situated so that one body occupies both chairs.

In any case, let's discuss Maria's death:

The following is given in red in the story itself:

1. Maria Ushiromiya is dead
2. Before Maria's death, I (Battler) locked the door to this room
3. The door is currently unlocked
4. The killer didn't use a master key or any key to enter this room
5. Nothing indicating a trap of any kind exists in this room

You've stated in red:
1. that Battler didn't see Maria unlock the door.
2. Maria did not let the culprit into the cousin's room
3. There was nobody in the cousins' room before Battler and Maria entered together, and Battler locked the door.

Let's get some obvious ones out of the way

The culprit entered through a window
The culprit entered through a secret passage which Battler did not recognize as being a door
There is no ceiling and the culprit climbed in with a ladder and jumped over the wall (Sorry, that's one of my favorite solutions to a riddle and I felt the urge to use it. I swear I'm not an incompetent fool! I'm just covering all my bases!

You state that Battler locked the door, but not when he locked the door. All we know is that he locked the door before Maria died.

Battler did not immediately lock the door upon entering with Maria. There was enough time for someone to sneak in
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This game is meant to be solved independently of the VN. Shannon and Kanon are used in a way that any details you learn about them aren't necessary to solve the mystery. In addition, this topic does not have a spoiler warning for Umineko, so please be careful. I assure you, the logistics of Shannon and Kanon's relationship has nothing to do with the crime here.

It's stated in red that none of the windows in the mansion open.
There are no secret passages in this mystery
There definitely is a ceiling, though that is indeed a classic

As for that last blue... that's a good catch, honestly. But unfortunately for you!! Nobody else entered the door after Battler and Maria until Battler brought Gohda to check on the body!
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Ack, I had forgotten that red bit about the windows. Well, I didn't forget it, but I thought it only applied to that room. Had to reread it.

I haven't given up! I shall think about it some more
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I wonder why Raka and Jeffrey gave up
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So, let's try...

<blue>Battler has narcolepsy, which explains the gaps of time between opening and closing his eyes.</font>

Just in case narcolepsy doesn't count as a "gimmicky disease".

Also, Battler is shown to have a bottle of medicine. Requesting confirmation that it is seasickness medication and not something else.

Thinking out loud here.

Battler's obsession with coffee must be important. "Oh shit Maria's dead. I could use some coffee."

And can I get a clarification on what a "drug" is for the purposes of this game? Would "a non-food substance that affects physiological state" be a fair definition?
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dexter, you're really good at this

Battler does not have narcolepsy
The medicine Battler has is not meant to treat sea sickness
A drug is any non-food substance that affects your physiological state yeah that sounds right. I asked the same thing.
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Some more questions.

Maria did not let the culprit into the cousin's room

To clarify, does this mean that she took no actions that would allow the culprit to enter the room, or that no actions she took had the direct purpose of letting the culprit into the room? For example, if she had unlocked the door for reasons totally unrelated to letting the culprit in, and then culprit used the unlocked door to enter the room, does that count as Maria letting the culprit in?

I'm unsatisfied with my current solution, so there's an unlikely possibility I want to eliminate. The culprit absolutely has no knowledge of the meta-game, correct? They won't take actions for the purpose making the meta-game harder for the human side?
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I'm still following along, I've jut been really tired these last few days and not really wanting to think about anything >_>
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dexter28 posted...

Some more questions.

Maria did not let the culprit into the cousin's room

To clarify, does this mean that she took no actions that would allow the culprit to enter the room, or that no actions she took had the direct purpose of letting the culprit into the room? For example, if she had unlocked the door for reasons totally unrelated to letting the culprit in, and then culprit used the unlocked door to enter the room, does that count as Maria letting the culprit in?

I'm unsatisfied with my current solution, so there's an unlikely possibility I want to eliminate. The culprit absolutely has no knowledge of the meta-game, correct? They won't take actions for the purpose making the meta-game harder for the human side?

like I said, you're really good at this.

Correct, Maria took no actions that led directly or indirectly to the culprit entering the room

The 2nd question thing is a little tougher to answer. By virtue of this being a mystery story, some events are going to seem unnatural to the reader. "I wouldn't have behaved like that!" and "Why doesn't he just ___" are pretty common, and you have to give some degree of trust to the author of the mystery (and in this case, the Witch overseeing the game).

I guarantee the mystery can be solved using what's presented here, and by employing your two methods of attack. I did it myself, to earn the right to present the game in the first place.
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Sorry for the odd question, but every solution I've come up with so far involves the culprit making things harder on themselves to pass red truths. I really didn't think you'd answer any other way but I needed help just abandoning that entire line of reasoning.

Need to think on this some more.
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Applekidrose posted...

I wonder why Raka and Jeffrey gave up

Been crazy busy these couple days. T_T
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A few more obvious one, but I gotta get it them of my system:

The door to the cousin's room can be unlocked from the outside.
The lock and/or door were damaged by the culprit's entry. The culprit cut a hole near the doorknob, stuck their hand through, and unlocked it.
The names "Battler" and "Maria" are only used for the two people we know of by those names. For instance, there isn't a second person on the island whose name is also Maria.

Alright, let's try some more detailed ones:

Battler's medicine (regardless of what its meant to cure) made him sleepy. He fell asleep at the table because he took a pill earlier. Although I feel like this would contradict Maria's red that drugs are not in anybody's system... However, that statement was spoken in present tense. There were drugs in Battler's system, but his body has since metabolized them.
Maria may not have directly or indirectly helped the culprit enter the room, but at some point before her death she knew the culprit was in the room.
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Eerieka continues to impress

The door to the cousins' room can be unlocked from the outside with the master key. However, as you know, just because they could doesn't mean they did.
The room, including the door, was entirely in-tact when Battler noticed the door was unlocked.
All of the people on the island have unique names, and nobody could confuse one person for another person in this mystery.

There are no drugs in anybody's system at any point in the story.

I won't deny the last one, but you'd still have to explain how she was killed.
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It's seeming more and more like coffee is central to the plot!

Battler fell asleep because the coffee was decaff

Battler entered the cousin's room with Maria, locked the door, but then unlocked it when he went to make himself more coffee

I'll try to be more active here.
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The coffee was indeed decaf
Battler did not leave the room between the time he originally locked the door, and discovering Maria's corpse

and awesome, I'm looking forward to it!
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Battler clearly displayed a craving for coffee at multiple points in the story. Battler went into caffeine withdrawal!

The time gap in the dining room was due to the decaf coffee.

Looking at another aspect of the story, we have that Gohda said in red that he applied the charm when he left the servant's room. However, the events in that room were not observed by the detective, so we can say little for certain about it. In fact, it may very well be that Gohda was in the servants room at the time of the murders in there. We do know that Gohda dd not have a master key, however Battler was able to lock a door, so The doors do not require a key to lock. It's entirely possible he locked the door himself, and Genji/Kumasawa were not in the room at the time of the murders. Gohda was the one in charge of the cooking too, so him being the culprit is looking more likely to me. He made the coffee too. Gohda deliberately brewed decaf coffee because he knew the effect it would have on Battler!

Alright, that's better.
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Lets do a bit more.

Gohda states in red that when he last spoke to Genji/Kumasawa that they had the master keys. There's an obvious way for the killer to have the keys then though, Gohda killed them and took at least one master key.

As I recall, Gohda was the only one to mention an intruder to Battler as well. Which is strange, given we know there are only the 18 on the island. I don't think Nanjo was there, so other than Gohda all witnesses to Genji's phone call are dead. Seems likely that There was no phone call warning of an intruder. Gohda lied to throw off the trail. I seem to really have it out for Gohda, now don't I? Haha
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Oh wow, some interesting attacks here. Let's see...

I won't deny the coffee may have contributed to what happened to Battler in the dining room.
Also for now I won't deny that Gohda witnessed the murders. I'm interested in where you're going with that.
The doors do require a key to lock, but they can be locked from the inside without a key.
Genji and Kumasawa were in the room at the time of the Servants' Room murders
Gohda would have had no way of knowing how Battler would react to decaf! Battler hadn't been to the mansion in years!


You say Gohda killed Kumasawa and Genji and took a master key, but you can't just say that without explaining how they appear much later in the story!!

It's true that There was no phone call but I refuse to say what reason he may have had to have lied
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Well, let's unpack things a bit further then. you say Kumasawa and Genji appear later in the story... However, they do not. At the very least, Battler never found Kumasawa or Genji after their deaths. In fact, it might very well be that Genji and Kumasawa were killed in the servants room. Gohda took the keys then and was the one who locked the doors from the outside. Now clearly, the bodies were not there when Nanjo checked the room. At that time Genji and Kumasawa's corpses had been dismembered and hidden in various rooms.

As far as the coffee goes, well we know that most of the adults were found unconscious later. The culprit almost certainly intended that to happen. But Battler was not taken the same way. Battler fell asleep due to a caffeine dependency. The culprit must have not realized that Battler's unconsciousness was different from the others!

Also, this topic has inspired me to actually read Umineko. I think I read a couple volumes of the manga because a friend of mine had them, but I've never read the VN
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If you're saying there were dismembered corpses here and there, you'll have to tell me when they were planted!

When the Servants' Room was sealed, Genji, Kumasawa, Shannon, Kanon, Jessica, and George were all in the Servants' Room!.

And remember?

Maria did not let the culprit into the cousins' room!
There are no accomplices!

SO HOW DID THESE SO CALLED DISMEMBERED BODIES END UP THERE? EHHHH? EXPLAIN THAT ONE JEFFREEEEEEEEEEYYYY
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I'm stubbornly clinging to my dismemberment theory for now. So lets try a few lines of attack.

The bodies were moved between Gohda leaving the room and him meeting Nanjo.
As for the bodypart in the cousins room, Gohda could have left it there when Nanjo investigated Maria's body
By the same reasoning as Genji and Kumasawa being in all those rooms at the same time, part of them remained in the room and those parts weren't found.
Alternately, the parts were left behind, but in such a way that they were destroyed by the time Nanjo entered. Perhaps in an oven or something.
Another path is that the window in the room was broken. They aren't large enough for a person to go through, but a part of a person would be no obstacle!

I will admit to being on much shakier ground at this point in my arguments though, lol.
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ahem

Nobody went outside the mansion once the family conference started.
When Nanjo investigated Maria's corpse, Battler would have noticed if Gohda acted suspiciously, and Battler is the detective so he would've said something!
How were the bodies moved between Gohda leaving the room and him meeting Nanjo if the room itself was sealed?!
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He didn't have to move the entire body, just parts of it. He could have left behind a couple of fingers, stuffed the main bodies somewhere, then moved fingers into various rooms. He could easily have dropped fingers in the cousins room without looking suspicious!
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