Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 422: It's The Great Pumpkin, Sister Abigail

(+) Yeah! (+)

So, not counting the obvious (Magnum T.A.) who was destined for the main event push in WWF/E, AWA, WCW NWA but didn't get it due to career ending/altering accident of sickness, or even death if you want to get morbid.

Silly hopes: Sami calls out Shane for his **** on Monday night, and when RAW storms through the Smackdown roster, when they get to Fandango and Breeze they stop and are like, "Nah, they're cool."

Missing in Action:
- Jinder Mahal (Champion)
- Jimmy & Jey Uso (Champions)
- Charlotte (Champion)
- Singh Brothers
- Sami Zayn
- Kevin Owens
- Aiden English
- Shelton Benjamin
- Sin Cara
- Epico & Primo Colon
- Luke Harper & Erick Rowan
- James Ellsworth
- Fandango & Tyler Breeze
- Konnor & Viktor
- Mike & Maria Kanellis
- Lana
- Naomi
- Randy Orton (unless he was attacked himself???)
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Assuming Jinder doesn't lose a 1-on-1 match by pinfall/submission before Survivor Series, then his match with Lesnar will combine the made up championships of The Man (currently held by Jinder) and The Guy (currently held by Lesnar).

Since The Man's title is much more prestigious and has a more broad history, that championship will continue on if these two belts merge at Survivor Series.
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Mega Mana posted...

Kimmy

My favorite Uso
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Unbreakable Kimmy Uso has got the whole division on lock dammit. It's a miracle.
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Also Charlotte isnt Champion
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You'd think that Ambrose and Rollins, guys who made their names by abusing a numerical advantages to beat the shit out of people, would be a little more aware of their poor odds of overcoming such a disadvantage.
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Panthera posted...

You'd think that Ambrose and Rollins, guys who made their names by abusing a numerical advantages to beat the shit out of people, would be a little more aware of their poor odds of overcoming such a disadvantage.

They're faces. They stupidly think they can overcome all of those odds!
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Panthera posted...

You'd think that Ambrose and Rollins, guys who made their names by abusing a numerical advantages to beat the shit out of people, would be a little more aware of their poor odds of overcoming such a disadvantage.

Faces don't run.

To be fair, Ambrose brought a chair which usually can fend off like 3-4 guys
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Seth Rollins is the most damning part of that given his title run was built on a Jinder Mahal-like abuse of sidekicks.
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Card seems pretty weird given we're getting a lot of heel vs heel so far
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Anyone who wrestles Corbin is a face.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Seth Rollins is the most damning part of that given his title run was built on a Jinder Mahal-like abuse of sidekicks.

He's a face. He's in fact a face who has gone on record multiple times, including a WM match that he hates that guy and wants to be Seth Freakin Rollins again.

scarletspeed7 posted...

Anyone who wrestles Corbin is a face.

Not for me!

Big Banter gonna put down Miz.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Anyone who wrestles Corbin is a face.

Roman too.

I wonder if he'd get Jinder cheered?

SSJBKK20Vegito posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Seth Rollins is the most damning part of that given his title run was built on a Jinder Mahal-like abuse of sidekicks.

He's a face. He's in fact a face who has gone on record multiple times, including a WM match that he hates that guy and wants to be Seth Freakin Rollins again.

Ignoring knowledge you have from a time of your life you want to forgot doesn't make you a face. It makes you stupid. A smart face would even the odds if nothing else. IE: Larry Zbyszko in WCW.
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Actually wait a second why did we have Shane just show up last night when his return tonight was supposed to be the big thing for this episode of Smackdown? That seems odd. Maybe they didn't trust Bryan to not just go off script and declare that he was attacking Angle's show because he's angry Angle gets to wrestle and he doesn't.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

SSJBKK20Vegito posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

Seth Rollins is the most damning part of that given his title run was built on a Jinder Mahal-like abuse of sidekicks.

He's a face. He's in fact a face who has gone on record multiple times, including a WM match that he hates that guy and wants to be Seth Freakin Rollins again.

Ignoring knowledge you have from a time of your life you want to forgot doesn't make you a face. It makes you stupid. A smart face would even the odds if nothing else. IE: Larry Zbyszko in WCW.

Ok... but who?

Everyone else was beat up. And they were gonna find them eventually. So getting the jump off them was the best idea.

You're telling me road agents can't interfere anymore?
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This cracked me up.

https://twitter.com/OSWreview/status/922885681625616384
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https://twitter.com/ElenaJrBaker/status/922794122762743809
- The Champ!

https://twitter.com/BeckyLynchWWE/status/922680635491315712
- MOTIVATION! FACE MOTIVATIONS!
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scarletspeed7 posted...

You're telling me road agents can't interfere anymore?

When was the last time agents interfered like that that wasn't TNA? That were just agents. J and J security were not just agents in kayfabe anymore.

VeryInsane posted...

Card seems pretty weird given we're getting a lot of heel vs heel so far

I think that changes soon, with either Corbin or Miz losing their belt (predicting Corbin).

Women's match, I'm not sure if they keep it heel vs heel or have one of them drop the belt. Maybe Nattie loses her belt to Charlotte, who then wrestles Alexa at Survivor Series. It'd be an interesting match considering they've never went one on one on the main roster.

And then Carmella cashes in on Charlotte afterwards >_>

Usos vs. Ambrose/Rollins will most likely stay, and so will Lesnar/Mahal. Finally, we'll probably get a 5-on-5 Cruiserweight match to give them some well-needed time.
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I have been watching Raw/Smackdown on hulu for about a year or two now, and didn't watch them before that.

I got Playstation Vue a few weeks ago, and cancelled hulu, so have been watching them on the DVR.

It's fucking unwatchable. It's three minutes of actual content, recap, commercial, back to recap then three more minutes back to commercial. It's an exaggeration but honestly not much of one. Holy shit I didn't realize. I'm not sure I can do it.
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SSJBKK20Vegito posted...

Ok... but who?

Everyone else was beat up. And they were gonna find them eventually. So getting the jump off them was the best idea.

Maybe if Angle hadn't been such a jerk to Miz, the Miztourage featuring The Bar would've helped!
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CeraSeptem posted...

It's fucking unwatchable. It's three minutes of actual content, recap, commercial, back to recap then three more minutes back to commercial. It's an exaggeration but honestly not much of one. Holy shit I didn't realize. I'm not sure I can do it.

True story it takes me on average about an hour to watch the entirety of Raw. Particularly good Raws or ones where I'm more patient and only skip recaps or stupid masturbatory videos, maybe an hour and a half. Smackdown isn't quite as bad, but that's mostly because they have less self promotion videos and better segments on average I think.

Just abuse the hell out of that skip ahead button.
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Lopen posted...

Just abuse the hell out of that skip ahead button.

That is the plan, but if someone has another solution please help a brotha cause damn
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CeraSeptem posted...

Lopen posted...

Just abuse the hell out of that skip ahead button.

That is the plan, but if someone has another solution please help a brotha cause damn

wrestletalk recaps everything in about 4 minutes the day after the show
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Man as much as I like the Survivor Series gimmick it doesn't really lend itself to intriguing matchups this year. Brock vs Jinder could be fun for Brock murdering the Singh Bros, and Shield vs Usos should be excellent (though I'm suprised there's no a Shield SS match). However, nothing about Miz vs Baron Corbin screams "Champion vs Champion" (probably should have left the belt on AJ) and although I like Bliss and Nattie they make for another awkward heel vs heel pairing.

6 of the 8 champs being heels (and Brock being a tweener) makes this a pretty odd card.
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JetJaguar posted...

Man as much as I like the Survivor Series gimmick it doesn't really lend itself to intriguing matchups this year. Brock vs Jinder could be fun for Brock murdering the Singh Bros, and Shield vs Usos should be excellent (though I'm suprised there's no a Shield SS match). However, nothing about Miz vs Baron Corbin screams "Champion vs Champion" (probably should have left the belt on AJ) and although I like Bliss and Nattie they make for another awkward heel vs heel pairing.

6 of the 8 champs being heels (and Brock being a tweener) makes this a pretty odd card.

Brock is NOT a tweener in this match. Brock is going to be Am Drag at XXX in this match...

If they had done this gimmick last year:

Universal vs WWE
Kevin Owens vs AJ Styles

US vs IC
Roman Reigns vs The Miz

Raw vs Smackdown Tag
The New Day vs Heath Slater and Rhyno

Raw vs Smackdown Women's
Charlotte vs Becky Lynch

That is a way more balanced and traditional card wow. Charlotte vs Becky really feels like the two aces of each brand going at it. Reigns vs Miz has a lot of star power. New Day vs Slater and Rhyno would be a ton of fun. AJ vs Owens would be the workrate alternative to the Lesnar vs Goldberg main event. And you still have a ton of guys for SS matches. Would have been a great card.
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JetJaguar posted...

However, nothing about Miz vs Baron Corbin screams "Champion vs Champion"

They'll sail down the river of your tears bro

<_<

I like Miz a lot and am fairly high on Corbin but while either guy would work fine as the heel in a champion vs champion story, they do not sound like a good match for each other in the slightest
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Where is it at? I feela smarky crowd will helpthe survivor series card this time around
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It's in Houston.
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VeryInsane posted...

It's in Houston.

One of the worst crowds in the country...

That's bad for this horrid match show.

well that will be some easy heel heat to get

and JJ watt is like out for the year now too so they could probably gethim to have a spot on it too

but are they usuall y more marky or smarky
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ScareChan posted...

well that will be some easy heel heat to get

and JJ watt is like out for the year now too so they could probably gethim to have a spot on it too

but are they usuall y more marky or smarky

Marks.

Panthera posted...

JetJaguar posted...

However, nothing about Miz vs Baron Corbin screams "Champion vs Champion"

They'll sail down the river of your tears bro

<_<

I like Miz a lot and am fairly high on Corbin but while either guy would work fine as the heel in a champion vs champion story, they do not sound like a good match for each other in the slightest

I really don't get why people like Corbin's promos. They are the height of the "U mad bro" mentality; just very boring and lacking any substance. It's not like AJ is currently cutting promos on the level of this time last year, but at least AJ can work. At least AJ's goofy haircut has a certain charm about it.
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JetJaguar posted...

Man as much as I like the Survivor Series gimmick it doesn't really lend itself to intriguing matchups this year. Brock vs Jinder could be fun for Brock murdering the Singh Bros, and Shield vs Usos should be excellent (though I'm suprised there's no a Shield SS match). However, nothing about Miz vs Baron Corbin screams "Champion vs Champion" (probably should have left the belt on AJ) and although I like Bliss and Nattie they make for another awkward heel vs heel pairing.

6 of the 8 champs being heels (and Brock being a tweener) makes this a pretty odd card.

I don't agree really, but mostly because I don't really think much about face/heel dynamics (and suspect the concept is dying) so I'm just taking it as a welcome opportunity to see matches you wouldn't see in any other circumstance and choosing my favorites. I have always loved the 5v5's so that's always hype from me.

Plus, while it's unlikely, I don't see how they'd go wrong with having two heels try to outheel each other.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

I really don't get why people like Corbin's promos. They are the height of the "U mad bro" mentality; just very boring and lacking any substance. It's not like AJ is currently cutting promos on the level of this time last year, but at least AJ can work. At least AJ's goofy haircut has a certain charm about it.

Corbin's not the best promo guy in the world by any means but at least he seems genuine when he acts like a douchebag. "U mad bro" is accurate, that type of obnoxious internet troll is basically his character.
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I don't neccessarily think Miz vs Corbin will be bad (though it probably will be), it's just the excessively anal booker in me (as most people who have followed my EWR diaries could attest) that objects to the pairing on principle.

My booking theory gives you a couple options based on Miz' character. He's an A-list celebrity, so you need an opponent who plays off that. One option would be someone like Cena or Reigns, a comparable star that helps sell the "champion vs champion, star vs star" angle. Since that works better with the world titles IMO, a better option would be an indy "star" who Miz perceives as not on his level. AJ would have been a better but not perfect fit in this spot, since he has probably surpassed Miz in terms of starpower. Probably Balor too. Maybe Nakamura? Basically you need someone Miz could belittle the accomplishments of because it didn't happen in WWE, and then lose to.

Corbin doesn't fit either bill obviously. Just my opinion.
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Panthera posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

I really don't get why people like Corbin's promos. They are the height of the "U mad bro" mentality; just very boring and lacking any substance. It's not like AJ is currently cutting promos on the level of this time last year, but at least AJ can work. At least AJ's goofy haircut has a certain charm about it.

Corbin's not the best promo guy in the world by any means but at least he seems genuine when he acts like a douchebag. "U mad bro" is accurate, that type of obnoxious internet troll is basically his character.

I guess my problem is that this never satisfies me. I don't like the boring parts of reality on display. I like the fun parts of reality. The Workin' Man, Steve Austin, was taking reality and giving it a little push, providing an outlet for other working men to vent their frustrations. Corbin's stake is one that is a complete turn-off for me, and this is important, AS A TV VIEWER.

Wrestling is television. I hate to say it, but too often wrestling fans have trouble understanding that WWE's competition is Better Call Saul, Walking Dead, Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt... it's all of this Golden Age of Television deluge that exists. Baron Corbin would go on the show with the worst writing of this bunch and be laughed off as badly written. And badly acted.

I know that someone here is just going to say, "That's the point, he's working, u mad bro!" But the thing is, they already have their "bad television" segment - it's called Fashion Files. It's so bad that it's funny. There are instances where that works. But just being bad, just lacking much effort in storytelling is not good. I never believe Corbin on the mic because he doesn't care. And that's the problem with Roman Reigns as well. That wasn't the problem with Goldberg last year at this time. Goldberg may have had no endurance but goddamn did I get into that build. Because Goldberg put in the effort. Brock Lesnar is just like Corbin; in fact, he's so bad that he knew it. He knew how bad he was and he cajoled Paul Heyman to talk for him. Corbin really needs a mouthpiece. I believe his tantrums in the ring more and if you want to salvage this guy, that's the way to do it. Hand him a manager.

But even when you do that, you still need someone who can write to write or someone who can talk to talk off the cuff.
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Panthera posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

I really don't get why people like Corbin's promos. They are the height of the "U mad bro" mentality; just very boring and lacking any substance. It's not like AJ is currently cutting promos on the level of this time last year, but at least AJ can work. At least AJ's goofy haircut has a certain charm about it.

Corbin's not the best promo guy in the world by any means but at least he seems genuine when he acts like a douchebag. "U mad bro" is accurate, that type of obnoxious internet troll is basically his character.

This.

Things like sailing his boat down a river of our tears is just so perfect for that level of obnoxious. Is he technically a good promo? No, but he comes off less scripted since he runs with it well.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

I know that someone here is just going to say, "That's the point, he's working, u mad bro!"

Nah I hate that mindset don't worry. I get what you're saying; this kind of character who is kind of deliberately obnoxious can walk a fine line between being a good heel that you hate for being a jerk that ruins everything good, and being an annoying waste of TV time. Corbin falls into the former side of the spectrum for me but I can easily see why he might be the latter for others.
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Panthera posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

I know that someone here is just going to say, "That's the point, he's working, u mad bro!"

Nah I hate that mindset don't worry. I get what you're saying; this kind of character who is kind of deliberately obnoxious can walk a fine line between being a good heel that you hate for being a jerk that ruins everything good, and being an annoying waste of TV time. Corbin falls into the former side of the spectrum for me but I can easily see why he might be the latter for others.

I guess for me, it's all fake, and therefore I expect them to present good storytelling. And I'm not saying, "Win a freaking Emmy, you classless thugs!" I guess what I'm saying is that being a good heel that ruins everything good can still be well-written, and that is not Baron Corbin. To me, that was Samoa Joe in NXT. Week after week, the guy comes out, pissed off and looking for a fight with Regal, and each time it was simple, brutal and evil. Or, if you want to go the tantrum route, look at Christian's tantrum era.

For me, having watched Talking Smack, I watched a guy who felt completely out of his league with Daniel Bryan. Daniel Bryan has a mind and wits about it, and Corbin just felt like a second-class citizen. It's like, if you watch Ted DiBiase for a while then suddenly put in Irwin R. Schyster. Similar gimmicks, sure, but one of these guys is one of the greatest promos ever and the other is, well, not.

For a TV perspective, Joffrey Baratheon on Game of Thrones was the most irritating son of a bitch I'd ever seen. I hated him. He was abysmal. THAT was good heel work. There was acting, there was writing, he in many ways said the same things that Corbin says, but the quality was there and therefore enjoyed it. Corbin lacks the skill to sell me on the lines he says, and even if he had that, look at Enzo. I know people like him, but his dialogue is bullshit and so canned that I always, always, ALWAYS scoff at it. It works so much better as a heel because it IS so bad.

Sorry if I'm going off, I just don't get to talk about my favorite part of wrestling that often, which is the writing.
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I gotta say I hate these brand vs brand storylines

Like it just feels so fake. "Yeah these guys are all on the same show of course they'll work together with no more justification than a PPV says they're fighting the other show."

I think I'd prefer just traditional Survivor Series matches with teams that make sense.
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Lopen posted...

I think I'd prefer just traditional Survivor Series matches with teams that make sense.

I agree with this for this year. Last year worked for me and it was fresh; this year people flip flopped without much fanfare and therefore the brands don't feel cohesive as units.
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but heel work, you cant teach that
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500
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