Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 422: It's The Great Pumpkin, Sister Abigail

(+) Yeah! (+)

Uh... I missed this first time through.

Booker T DEFENDED a murder....

"Miz is just trying to protect his Investment..."

He has to be a heel, right?

Okay the image of the WWE Crowd chanting: "THIS IS MURDER" while Miz looks on in absolute horror has me cracking up rn.

I may need to pause my hiatus just for that.
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I need gifs
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ExThaNemesis posted...

Okay the image of the WWE Crowd chanting: "THIS IS MURDER" while Miz looks on in absolute horror has me cracking up rn.

I may need to pause my hiatus just for that.

I thought it was even better that Cesaro looked at the crowd while they were chanting that and shrugged as if to say "Oops, I guess"

At least I think I saw him do that
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Solioxrz362 posted...

ExThaNemesis posted...

Okay the image of the WWE Crowd chanting: "THIS IS MURDER" while Miz looks on in absolute horror has me cracking up rn.

I may need to pause my hiatus just for that.

I thought it was even better that Cesaro looked at the crowd while they were chanting that and shrugged as if to say "Oops, I guess"

At least I think I saw him do that

Yes. He did.

So I think Emma was great tonight. I enjoyed her match with Asuka a lot she played a great heel. I am actually really into Enzo too

I have no idea what to make of the main or finn and aj. They both felt way too long and just

I dont know. I think thismay have been worst ppv oftheyear to me
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I was bored to death watching the TLC match for the most part. And then all of the obvious logic fails these guys had were kind of annoying. Like literally everything about the garbage truck and why they just didn't hurry and throw Dean and Seth into it before Braun got to them. Why did Dean and Seth decide to go through two tables to take out two members of the team to leave Kurt Angle in a 3v1 situation?

And the sad thing is, even with Roman, this match wouldn't have been much better. It just would have included about 25 Super Man Punches and Roman probably would've gotten the rescue spot that Angle had.

I dunno, I didn't really enjoy myself and multiple times during the match I was just hoping that it would end, so even when Braun is crawling out of the wreckage it's just more annoying because the match is going to keep going than anything.
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except I think Angle did research on the wrong Shield for his match



because he was way more Vic Mackey than Roman Reigns
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The good:

Asuka and Emma was a really great opener
Finn and AJ had some amazing spots. For a last minute match, very well put together and correctly booked.
Mickie looked like a million bucks out there.
The last ten minutes of the TLC match.

The bad:
Enzo has go-home heat with me. He's not a cruiserweight. He does a disservice to the division.
The "Who cares" factor of this PPV was strong.
The 5-on-2 portion of the main that was just 5 guys walking around in the ring was completely nonsensical in a bad way. Utterly stupid.
But seriously, who cared about this PPV?
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I'm curious to see what other opinions are about what happened with Braun. I'm thinking this might be the start of one of those face turns where nothing at all changes about him other than he takes on heels now (or at least Kane/Miz/The Bar). Did anyone else get that impression as what happens next with him?
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ScareChan posted...

I don't know. I think this may have been worst ppv of the year to me

Still a tough call between this, Fastlane, and Battleground.
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Bryan & Vinny called AJ/Finn "one of the best matches of the year"

I mean I expect hyperbole from MWC but did I miss something here? Was the match really that good? Like even with a build I don't feel it would've been anything amazing. It felt like the bare minimum match you'd expect from the two given the premise it's a singles contest between that gets time and ends clean.

Like I'm not saying it was bad, but I feel like it's more like... 3*, really good Raw Main Event, than MotY candidate.
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Lopen posted...

Bryan & Vinny called AJ/Finn "one of the best matches of the year"

I mean I expect hyperbole from MWC but did I miss something here? Was the match really that good? Like even with a build I don't feel it would've been anything amazing. It felt like the bare minimum match you'd expect from the two given the premise it's a singles contest between that gets time and ends clean.

Like I'm not saying it was bad, but I feel like it's more like... 3*, really good Raw Main Event, than MotY candidate.

Do you hate Finn?

Cause honestly. If you don't hate Finn I can't see how ANYONE can watch that glorious match and not think it was absolutely one of the best matches of the year. I gave it 4 and a half. If it wasn't in the same card as the most fun match in 15 years I might have even gone higher, (I can't fairly judge it against the Sports Entertainlent spectacular to follow).

I'm seeing a ton of really high scores on forums for it too. Bryan hasn't given it an official score yet, burn from how he spoke on it I'm assuming 4 1/2 or 4 3/4.

Finn is fine.

It was just kinda a little slow and boring. Very limited crowd interaction, didn't really feel like it built much until the very end. The execution on the moves was good, but there was no feeling behind anything.

I didn't feel like either side really cared about winning the match. Face/face pairing probably didn't help in this regard. Just felt like two guys were out there to "steal the show." I think Heel AJ would've made this a lot better because there would've probably been something resembling actual emotion and urgency in there.
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Balor's finisher ruins his matches for me. It's just so anticlimactic.
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AJ actually sold it pretty well though

I don't know about being one of the best matches of the year, but it was definitely the best one in that specific card
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I don't even agree it was the best on the card, but like, I find that a reasonable deviation from my take on the match. Like it's at least in the discussion for best match on the card, along with both the women's matches and the ME.

When people are giving it 4.5 stars though like, I feel like either I missed something or people let pure expectation on the name value of the guys in there skew their perception on matches a ton
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Lopen posted...

I don't even agree it was the best on the card, but like, I find that a reasonable deviation from my take on the match. Like it's at least in the discussion for best match on the card, along with both the women's matches and the ME.

When people are giving it 4.5 stars though like, I feel like either I missed something or people let pure expectation on the name value of the guys in there skew their perception on matches a ton

And you think Bryan Alvarez would do that?

He is the cardboard carrying member of the WWE sucks club.

He's also seen more than enough wrestling in his life by now.

Eh. Bryan & Vinny have sorta had inorganic reactions to a lot of stuff in WWE for a long time now, and it affects positive and negative things. It's more their reaction combined with everything else that makes me think I had to have missed something.
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I gave it ****1/4. I got sucked into the story of the match. Two people who have never had a match against each other going through a proper feeling out process, leading into moves leading into countermoves.

I really loved all the little timing dekes to catch each other off guard.
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Hmmm okay. If you say that happened, maybe the subtleties of the story of the match just went over my head because I was so bored by the PPV in general, cause I didn't get any of that. If that stuff was there match probably would've been helped tremendously by an announce team that has a clue to help explain that. The only thing the announcers contributed to that match was that I actually laughed uncontrollably during a segment where they literally said 'The Demon' like 8 times in 20-30 seconds.

Might have to rewatch it stand alone so I can properly absorb it as a viewer who isn't bored silly going into the match. Maybe I'll rewatch it with a different language announce team too so I don't get distracted by 'THE DEMON' spam. ... though I guess even in other languages they'd still be saying 'The Demon' in English. Dammit. I don't wanna watch it in mute.
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I would give it a 3.75 personally. It was a good first match, brilliant when you consider that they had no time to book it properly or for the guys to work together at all and get a feel for the chemistry of the match. But it was a FIRST match. It felt like the first part of a longer series.
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Lopen posted...

. If that stuff was there match probably would've been helped tremendously by an announce team that has a clue to help explain that.

Oh for sure. 100000x agree

I wonder if part of the polarizing (no one is saying its bad but you know what I mean) opinion on the match is because they did zero finisher spam/kickouts. They were smart enough to not blow those sequences now and save them for down the road.

Also that was maybe Finns best Coup de Grace because AJ really let him stick it hard
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FWIW Dave just called it two great professional wrestlers having a very fine match.
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Jakyl25 posted...

Also that was maybe Finns best Coup de Grace because AJ really let him stick it hard

I should have mentioned that too. Really great sell there. I thought it looked so nasty.
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And no I for sure would not call it a MotY candidate unless you only watch main roster WWE and your nominee list is like 10 deep
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I actually appreciated there was no finisher spam. I started getting fatigue from those later Cena matches.

Like I said the main problem is I didn't really feel like either guy particularly cared about winning. It kinda had a similar feel to like if you had Dean Malenko fight himself. Part of this is on build or lack thereof, a lack of defined stakes, part of this is on alignments, but also part of it is on the guys themselves not really engaging the crowd properly too. Like even a little token showboating from either side would've helped a ton I think.
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Lopen posted...

Like I said the main problem is I didn't really feel like either guy particularly cared about winning.

It's two faces with no program. That's what happens. They played their characters to the best of their abilities but there isn't any actual friction. It's tough to engage a crowd when both guys have a character that is based on working hard in the ring and not showboating.
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with Finn and AJ I felt that the begining was good, and then there were good segments through out, but it didnt feel like it had a lot of good pacing to me. It felt slow, like even WWE slow, and like each segment could be cut and paste wherever they needed to. It just was a bit lifeless to me. Technically yeah very solid and entertainig, but you could feel that there were no real stakes.

I agree that if it wasnt last minute or commentary could have really helped it. These guys will definitely one up it next time they meet, I just wasnt really feeling this one.
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And yeah the coupe de grau is something I feel that actually holds Balor back. I just never feel like its finisher worthy. But I do agree last night it looked more impactful, but still not like it should be ending the match.
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Right

That's why I'm saying I think it would've been a lot better if AJ was heel. Or if there was a build. Or anything.

Like face/face works with a build, and it doesn't even have to be complicated-- if they really wanted to they could've done something on this show for it. Why did Elias need 3 segments-- just give AJ and Finn an interview each to sell me on the match instead.
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Should have just had Gallows and Anderson razzing both AJ and Finn backstage, playfully bantering about how the two former leaders were about to determine who was the best leader, maybe say something like, "Guess whoever wins is the REAL leader of the Club" or something. Have AJ and Finn both laugh it off but stare each other down like, "Oh shit, that IS what this match will be about."
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There you go even more efficient. We can save time for Elias, now!
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Have just one segment of Elias. Give a full segment to Jason Jordan at the grocery store!
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I think if Jordan had just brought the shopping cart with him for the match, and had had a grocery store segment, he would've actually got a reaction for the first time ever.
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Jason Jordan could've restarted the Hardcore division that night :(
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ScareChan posted...

And yeah the coupe de grau is something I feel that actually holds Balor back. I just never feel like its finisher worthy. But I do agree last night it looked more impactful, but still not like it should be ending the match.

You know the move could legit kill you, right?

It's probably the most dangerous move in wrestling and if you did it to someone in real life you'd go to prison for murder.

I don't see how you could watch someone plant his entire weight on someone's ribs and think it's not impactful.

Well the problem is in doing it in a way that doesn't kill you, Balor actually makes it look kinda meh

Like I actually agree that that finisher kinda holds him back, generally. Though yeah the one vs AJ was not one of those times in particular cause that one looked nasty.

I do think it's usable as a finish. Like I thought Low Ki's was really nasty looking every time. Whether that's some subtlety in the technique or Low Ki was killing people every time I'm not sure, but yeah, don't buy Balor's in general. Think it'd be easier to just use some other finish.
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It's probably the most dangerous move in wrestling and if you did it to someone in real life you'd go to prison for murder.

A kick directly into the skull is probably the most dangerous move in all of wrestling by those standards.
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I wouldn't be opposed to Low Ki coming with his current gimmick to WWE.
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SmartMuffin posted...

It's probably the most dangerous move in wrestling and if you did it to someone in real life you'd go to prison for murder.

A kick directly into the skull is probably the most dangerous move in all of wrestling by those standards.

People survive being kicked in the skull.

If I got on the top of my deck and jumped directly on to your rib cage with you on concrete below I can't see you having very good chances to survive.

scarletspeed7 posted...

It's tough to engage a crowd when both guys have a character that is based on working hard in the ring and not showboating.

I actually laughed out loud that this sentence was used, accurately I might add, to describe a character called THE DEMON
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Lopen posted...

Well the problem is in doing it in a way that doesn't kill you, Balor actually makes it look kinda meh

Like I actually agree that that finisher kinda holds him back, generally. Though yeah the one vs AJ was not one of those times in particular cause that one looked nasty.

I do think it's usable as a finish. Like I thought Low Ki's was really nasty looking every time. Whether that's some subtlety in the technique or Low Ki was killing people every time I'm not sure, but yeah, don't buy Balor's in general. Think it'd be easier to just use some other finish.

Low Ki doesn't give a fuck. He's killing people everytime

Jakyl25 posted...

scarletspeed7 posted...

It's tough to engage a crowd when both guys have a character that is based on working hard in the ring and not showboating.

I actually laughed out loud that this sentence was used, accurately I might add, to describe a character called THE DEMON

Workhorse demon!

He's in that caste of demons in Hell that builds the torture equipment, does maintenance on the rivers of magma, that sort of thing.
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And speaking of that, have we determined once and for all now that once the match starts there is literally no difference between Finn and The Demon?
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So here is the definition that JONA and I have come up with:

-Demon Finn takes matches seriously.

-Jacket Finn doesn't take matches seriously.

Here's the other option:

-Demon Finn and Jacket Finn are two separate people (Seth Rollins believes so based on that feud last year)

-Demon Finn will win the Universal Title again someday

-Jacket Finn is less than 205 pounds and will win the Cruiserweight Title

-Together they will win the RAW Tag Titles, although there will be a suspicious number of incidents where Jacket Finn rolls under the ring and comes out with random smears of make-up and a wig on
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scarletspeed7 posted...

So here is the definition that JONA and I have come up with:

-Demon Finn takes matches seriously.

-Jacket Finn doesn't take matches seriously.

Here's the other option:

-Demon Finn and Jacket Finn are two separate people (Seth Rollins believes so based on that feud last year)

-Demon Finn will win the Universal Title again someday

-Jacket Finn is less than 205 pounds and will win the Cruiserweight Title

-Together they will win the RAW Tag Titles, although there will be a suspicious number of incidents where Jacket Finn rolls under the ring and comes out with random smears of make-up and a wig on

I want you to book.

SSJBKK20Vegito posted...

It's probably the most dangerous move in wrestling

not even the most dangerous version of the move

sonjay dutt and his stupid moonsault version that he can't control the landing for is way more dangerous and has blown out way more spleens
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znoumHUMspQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjHznQji_JM

like the way finn lands he has his knees bent and rolls off them and it's controlled and you know it doesn't do any damage

dutt fucking spikes you in the ribs or stomach straight on, like every time
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FFDragon posted...

SSJBKK20Vegito posted...

It's probably the most dangerous move in wrestling

not even the most dangerous version of the move

sonjay dutt and his stupid moonsault version that he can't control the landing for is way more dangerous and has blown out way more spleens

I disnt mean his specifically. I meant the move itself and the variations of it are the most dangerous move in the business.

(Non augmented)

Yeah, a tombstone off a ladder in real life would probably have a 100% kill rate, but that's using an foreign object.