Current Events > Polygon whining about TLOU2's violence

(+) Yeah! (+)

am I on red pill
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DuranOfForcena posted...

violence against men isn't a real problem but violence against women is?

Are you 7 years old?
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the problem with the trailer isn't violence against women

it's that it's a somewhat lengthy single scene with characters we have no reason to give a shit about whatsoever
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LIsJustice posted...

lol polygon what'd you expect?

An archive link.
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DuranOfForcena posted...

UnfairRepresent posted...

DuranOfForcena posted...

violence against men isn't a real problem but violence against women is?

Are you 7 years old?

uhhh... nope. what the fuck is this post?

That your understanding of of violence women face and violence men face is equal to a small sheltered child.

Men beating/raping their wives and a culture of domination over women who are biologically and socially weaker, in some cultures and countries even legally unequal is not the same issue as violence in general.

Your lack of comprehension of this fact is embarrasing for an adult.

"Why do we care about these girls being beaten and raped when I a saw a guy down the bar get punched yesterday." is like responding to the Catholic Church telling poor remote groups of uneducated people in Africa that condoms increase the risk of STD leading to mass amounts of unwanted pregnancy, death in childbirth, rape and STD skyrocketing by doing "Well lying about vaccinations isn't a real problem but lying about condoms causing STDS is!?"

They're both "real problems" and different problems. You just have no mature understanding of nuance and context.
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i really do hate everything naughty dog stands for
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Extreme violence is the only way to make a mature statement in gaming. Go back to your baby Mario games if you don't like it and let the big boys enjoy their God of Wars and Last of Uss.
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CookieMarvin posted...

specialkid8 posted...

Remember when Lara Croft was Literally Raped in Tomb Raider?

...and people had a problem with that too. this is a pretty blanket thing. No one is going after naughty dog trying to take down their game on some personal vendetta.

What a white Knight.
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In The Last of Us, Joel may be gunning down hunters, but we understand why hes doing it, and those hes attacking arent women or marginalized people.

Well, you know what they say, controversy creates cash, and these shit-tier "journalists" are getting clicks just so people can laugh at their ridiculous articles
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Assuming violence against women is put in to get men off is right up there with thinking Harry Potter promotes black magic satanism and Pokemon is promoting dog fights. The point of it is to feel sympathetic of the victims and root for them when they start turning the situation around. How are women supposed to start getting leading roles as tough action survivors if they're never allowed to get hurt?

its not that they cant get hurt, its that I dont really wanna see them get brutalized and tortured and shit. characters can be tough without getting tortured.

And its not that its in there to get people off; it just perpetuates the culture of violence against women in media. it just sucks.
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EternalDivide posted...

Polygon and Kotaku both should be blackballed by all developers and publishers.

Kotaku are infinitely better than Polygon.
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I thought we were supposed to be past complaining about violence in video games...
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DuranOfForcena posted...

CookieMarvin posted...

it just perpetuates the culture of violence against women in media

there is no such thing

alright dude you can deny it to your hearts content, but thats not gonna make it so
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lol Polygon
lol CookieMarvin


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CookieMarvin posted...

its not that they cant get hurt, its that I dont really wanna see them get brutalized and tortured and shit. characters can be tough without getting tortured.

And its not that its in there to get people off; it just perpetuates the culture of violence against women in media. it just sucks.

If you dont want to explore narratives of suffering that reach the extremes of human imagination, thats fine. Just dont pull this video games made me hit my mother crap.
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m_mungmung posted...

CookieMarvin posted...

its not that they cant get hurt, its that I dont really wanna see them get brutalized and tortured and shit. characters can be tough without getting tortured.

And its not that its in there to get people off; it just perpetuates the culture of violence against women in media. it just sucks.

If you dont want to explore narratives of suffering that reach the extremes of human imagination, thats fine. Just dont pull this video games made me hit my mother crap.

whoa bucko I never said anything like that
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CookieMarvin posted...

whoa bucko I never said anything like that

Perhaps I read too much into your comment saying it just perpetuates the culture of violence against women in media., nevertheless your position remains harmless, if not a little obnoxious (violence = bad, violence in media = artistic expression) as long as you dont start arguing that violence in media can result in it becoming prevalent in real life.
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So even though the women won and defeated the bad guys, somehow this is a horrible scene?

m_mungmung posted...

CookieMarvin posted...

whoa bucko I never said anything like that

Perhaps I read too much into your comment saying it just perpetuates the culture of violence against women in media., nevertheless your position remains harmless, if not a little obnoxious (violence = bad, violence in media = artistic expression) as long as you dont start arguing that violence in media can result in it becoming prevalent in real life.

I dont think that video games are causing the violence, I think they're emblematic of violence in society and our views of it
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but its not real, its a story
and thats what's happening in the story

if it didnt happen, it would be a different story
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Polygon sucks a fat one and we should stop clicking links to the site.
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I mean I think it was kind of stupid for ND to put that trailer out with literally no context on what the story is. Like, yeah, TLOU universe is dark and violent, we know. WTF is this sequel about tho? It didn't need a 5 minute torture porn trailer
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CookieMarvin posted...

I dont think that video games are causing the violence, I think they're emblematic of violence in society and our views of it

I think that falls a little short. Violence in media is emblematic of what it means to be human. Human capacity for violence has been its greatest strength and weakness and is often used as the foremost narrative device in storytelling when its not the basis of the story. Violence is power at its most visceral and when violence is projected onto those groups whom we protect, such as children or women, it is subtext for a background; societal laws are not in place and the land the setting is in is dangerous. Not only that, but what of the dynamic between adult and child, man and woman? Violence being exerted indiscriminately tells that security is coveted more than peace.

When Polygon and fellow news outlets dont see this, its a little bizarre.
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m_mungmung posted...

CookieMarvin posted...

I dont think that video games are causing the violence, I think they're emblematic of violence in society and our views of it

I think that falls a little short. Violence in media is emblematic of what it means to be human. Human capacity for violence has been its greatest strength and weakness and is often used as the foremost narrative device in storytelling when its not the basis of the story. Violence is power at its most visceral and when violence is projected onto those groups whom we protect, such as children or women, it is subtext for a background; societal laws are not in place and the land the setting is in is dangerous. Not only that, but what of the dynamic between adult and child, man and woman? Violence being exerted indiscriminately tells that security is coveted more than peace.

When Polygon and fellow news outlets dont see this, its a little bizarre.

Wouldnt it be a little exclusionary to suggest that this is a scenario that plays on the male desire to protect women? Like, I understand that its trying to imply that the rules have gone out the window, but isnt there a way that could be more inclusive to female gamers? Surely women dont think of it like women need to be protected, and seeing them in this situation is a good indication that this is anarchy or something
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CookieMarvin posted...

Wouldnt it be a little exclusionary to suggest that this is a scenario that plays on the male desire to protect women? Like, I understand that its trying to imply that the rules have gone out the window, but isnt there a way that could be more inclusive to female gamers? Surely women dont think of it like women need to be protected, and seeing them in this situation is a good indication that this is anarchy or something

I dont think it necessarily plays to the male desire to protect, but to the current nature in society with which that is the expectation. The artists intent is to sweep the rug out from under us and I think it does a decent job. It may not be making you feel uncomfortable in the right way, but it does for most others. I also fail to see why violence portrayed against women would alienate female gamers as I believe the use of violence as a narrative device is contextual and helps us walk in the main characters shoes. I dont speak for women so I dont know whether or not it does alienate women, just putting the cards on the table.
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but theres no explicit rhyme or reason to the violence. It might be a little less problematic if there was more substance to the trailer, but as it is, its just a clip of torture porn. Violence, and even extreme violence like this, can be used appropriately to further a plot, but here, violence is the plot, and its up to us to speculate or make inferences as to what is happening and why. This feels like something that should be seen in-game with appropriate context, not something that should stand alone. It could make sense, but I dont think it does as a one-off piece used for advertising.
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CookieMarvin posted...

E32005 posted...

DuranOfForcena posted...

if the victims in the trailer were men this article would not exist, even though it would be contentwise the exact same thing

Yep

are you guys actually stumbling upon the problem here or do you think this is a valid criticism of the complaints

They are virtue signaling pos
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But here, the promise is almost exclusively gore. There's an argument to be made that the trailer raises an enticing question Why are these women being attacked?

Because the attackers view them as apostates. They said so themselves. Come on, this is a teaser. It's supposed to hook us in and make us want to know more.
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The purpose of violence in visual storytelling is usually context dependent but often serves to set the tone for a setting. People criticizing this trailer over its violence don't seem to have a basic grasp of storytelling.
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CookieMarvin posted...

Wouldnt it be a little exclusionary to suggest that this is a scenario that plays on the male desire to protect women? Like, I understand that its trying to imply that the rules have gone out the window, but isnt there a way that could be more inclusive to female gamers? Surely women dont think of it like women need to be protected, and seeing them in this situation is a good indication that this is anarchy or something

I don't think inclusivity is an issue. The trailer video in question does not have any substantial number of dislikes, and while we don't necessarily know the demographics, you'd have to assume at least some notable percentage of those watching are women.

I think a better comparison to refer to is The Walking Dead: It operates on an even more gruesome level of violence but seems to attract a pretty diverse audience, including a sizable female audience in no small part due to actors like Norman Reedus. The first scene of the show has a little zombie girl getting shot - an opening meant to shock the viewer - yet it gained and has retained a female audience.

So why would it be an issue here when this is a sequel to a franchise that already exists and has its own fanbase? Why would anybody be confused or offended? What if the tone being set by the extensive violence may ultimately be the point of the story, since sequels are very often darker in nature? It's a teaser, and this is how they decided to present it. Assuming this is somehow an issue towards female viewership seems borderline patronizing since this is only being based on the presence of women in the trailer, even though a woman seems to be engineering a lot of the violence to begin with.
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You could argue that the trailer doesn't say enough, I guess (albeit it's probably preferable to saying too much, as trailers often do) but making it about gender politics is simply reaching for the soapbox and attempting to find problems where they don't exist. If they were vying for some commentary on some controversial treatment of women in storytelling, drudging up one of the million visual novels that exist might be a better route to go down.
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Zero_Destroyer posted...

CookieMarvin posted...

Wouldnt it be a little exclusionary to suggest that this is a scenario that plays on the male desire to protect women? Like, I understand that its trying to imply that the rules have gone out the window, but isnt there a way that could be more inclusive to female gamers? Surely women dont think of it like women need to be protected, and seeing them in this situation is a good indication that this is anarchy or something

I don't think inclusivity is an issue. The trailer video in question does not have any substantial number of dislikes, and while we don't necessarily know the demographics, you'd have to assume at least some notable percentage of those watching are women.

I think a better comparison to refer to is The Walking Dead: It operates on an even more gruesome level of violence but seems to attract a pretty diverse audience, including a sizable female audience in no small part due to actors like Norman Reedus. The first scene of the show has a little zombie girl getting shot - an opening meant to shock the viewer - yet it gained and has retained a female audience.

So why would it be an issue here when this is a sequel to a franchise that already exists and has its own fanbase? Why would anybody be confused or offended? What if the tone being set by the extensive violence may ultimately be the point of the story, since sequels are very often darker in nature? It's a teaser, and this is how they decided to present it. Assuming this is somehow an issue towards female viewership seems borderline patronizing since this is only being based on the presence of women in the trailer, even though a woman seems to be engineering a lot of the violence to begin with.

I think twd would run into a similar problem if they had initially tried to sell the show by inflicting that violence solely upon women. I think that killing one little zombie girl is a better way to try and sell the feeling this trailer was going for. Instead, we have a bunch of very alive and human women being tortured. Its not that women cant get hurt or killed in media; this just feels representative of targeted violence towards women, however unintentional it may have been on naughty dogs part.
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I think you are insane, @CookieMarvin

thats ok
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hockeybub89 posted...

lol Polygon
lol CookieMarvin

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awh, corn
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CookieMarvin posted...

awh, corn

I didn't know you had such annoying opinions on things but it's ok I can learn to love that about you
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have you tried examining this through a perspective other than your own?
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Darmik posted...

A trailer is a pitch to its audience of what to expect from the full game. In the past, Naughty Dogs trailers have captured a particular mood or suggested a compelling relationship. But here, the promise is almost exclusively gore. There's an argument to be made that the trailer raises an enticing question Why are these women being attacked? but that mystery is both too familiar and too broad.

Without any context, the trailer fails to introduce (or even really tease) the story players will embark on. That is its problem.

Tbh I actually agree with this.

Trying to make it about violence against women dilutes that point though.

This. We still really don't know what the game is gonna be about. We seem to have two different stories going on, one with Ellie going after the Fireflies and another about some group not aware of the outbreak and calling them demons.
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CookieMarvin posted...

have you tried examining this through a perspective other than your own?

Like how
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DocileOrangeCup posted...

CookieMarvin posted...

have you tried examining this through a perspective other than your own?

Like how

like listen to women talk about it
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CookieMarvin posted...

DocileOrangeCup posted...

CookieMarvin posted...

have you tried examining this through a perspective other than your own?

Like how

like listen to women talk about it

I don't care about it enough to do something like that
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