Board 8 > "so what are you?"

(+) Yeah! (+)

foolm0r0n posted...

That is ACTUALLY ad hominem you know?

I really thought I was being flippant enough with the hair stuff to make it clear it was a joke to keep things light hearted.

classic 2017 foolmo can't identify a joke.
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I usually just say "American". Then the conversation goes like this:
Person: "No, but like, where are you FROM?"
Me: "California."
Person: "I mean like, what nationality?"
Me: "My birth certificate and passport say that my nationality is American."
Person: "Okay, where are your parents from?"
Me: "Los Angeles."
Person: "No no, like WHERE are they from?"
Me: "[LA neighborhood] and [LA neighborhood]"
Person: "Your grandparents, where are they from?"
Me: "The United States."
Person: "Are you Mexican, Guatemalan, El Salvadorean, Cuban, or what?"
Me: "No. I am American as is my entire known family."

Person gets frustrated with me at this point. I then either start listing off national origins I think they're asking about, starting with American (which Ancestry.com has confirmed with many more) or just ignore them.

I've even done this with the US Census Bureau. If you say you're Hispanic, they want to know what country. I always say United States.

Now that I've done Ancestry.com's DNA test, I can now start listing off a dozen different origins, mostly from Europe, in hopes that people will finally leave me the hell alone.
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I was keeping it a joke but you just broke the chain

Just like when you came into a lighthearted topic and interpreted it as some indictment of society and a diatribe against white people
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this kinda thing is a bit depressing to think about as a white person because like... Im not really from anywhere
I dont have any cultural background/family history/whatever to be proud of; Im just a generic, forgettable non-person really
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im proud of you zyxyz0
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velocycloraptor posted...

im proud of you zyxyz0

How so? Genuinely not sure what you mean by that
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SeabassDebeste posted...

i'm personally fine (other than being physically assaulted earlier this year by a racist making racist remarks).

whoa what

what happened (if you feel like talking about it)
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foolm0r0n posted...

I was keeping it a joke but you just broke the chain

Classic 2017 santa
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I make a point to go up to every single minority I ever see, poke them directly in the chest and say 'where are you from, but really where are you from cuz this is Merica and you aint' from here' then I immediately text Timjab the thumbs up emoji
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You fool! This isn't even my final race!
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Clicked on this topic expecting Halloween costumes
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Lopen posted...

Citation needed.

Hard to find a statistic on how many people did at the time. But links like this make it seem like common practice.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/26/nyregion/26names.html
http://www.genealogyintime.com/NewsStories/2009/March/why_immigrants_change_their_name.html
https://familyhistorydaily.com/personal-genealogy-stories/10-famous-immigrants-changed-names/

Gatarix posted...

whoa what

what happened (if you feel like talking about it)

walk into my building, a really drunk dude follows me in. he complains i was blocking up the extremely hallway. once we're out of the hallway and on the second level of the stairwell, i tell him 'you didn't even use a key.' he goes off on me about me not being white and not belonging here and uses a few racial slurs, blocks my way on the staircase. when i try to pass him he grabs me and attacks me. after that he tells me 'you're lucky i don't get my friends and kill you!' and heads up the stairs
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yikes
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Had no idea sd met timjab
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Keep in mind that first article you linked basically argues against your point by saying that immigrant name changes for the sake of changing them has "all but disappeared as something that's done" and lists out the varying reasons for the few name changes among immigrants that are still done, and says that in the overwhelming majority aren't related to any sort of discrimination (perceived or otherwise) but yeah.

I'm sure at one point in time it was definitely more commonplace as a concern. Seeing as I'm not posting from a time machine in the 1900s, though, it's not entirely relevant to the discussion. In a different time I could empathize-- but this isn't that time. And yet those conversation openers still occur, despite it not being that time, which implies these ice breakers aren't inherently tied to any sort of name based discrimination.

Does suck about guys like that drunken bigot, though, don't get me wrong. There's still work to do. I'm just saying being asked your race or whatever as a conversation opener is pretty irrelevant to any of that, and would occur in some racially harmonic utopia all the same.
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An annoying question. Don't ask it.

@MysticBrohan for real tho, what are you?
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gay

thanks for the sympathy everyone.

velocycloraptor posted...

Had no idea sd met timjab

the white cop seemed very reluctant to help and seemed very suspicious that i hadn't called 911 (i was cut, and shaken up, but i was always told 911 was for 'emergencies' only). his latino superior was more enthusiastic about helping.

Lopen posted...

Keep in mind that first article you linked basically argues against your point by saying that immigrant name changes for the sake of changing them has "all but disappeared as something that's done" and lists out the varying reasons for the few name changes among immigrants that are still done, and says that in the overwhelming majority aren't related to any sort of discrimination (perceived or otherwise) but yeah.

I'm sure at one point in time it was definitely more commonplace as a concern. Seeing as I'm not posting from a time machine in the 1900s, though, it's not entirely relevant to the discussion. In a different time I could empathize-- but this isn't that time. And yet those conversation openers still occur, despite it not being that time, which implies these ice breakers aren't inherently tied to any sort of name based discrimination.

it doesn't happen anymore, but it *did* happen. the first half of the article is more proof that discrimination among different types of white people no longer happens, and that being 'ethnic' is a bonus if you're white. second link mentions that it never worked if you weren't at least white-passing.

Lopen posted...

I'm just saying being asked your race or whatever as a conversation opener is pretty irrelevant to any of that, and would occur in some racially harmonic utopia all the same.

never said otherwise. from earlier in the topic

SeabassDebeste posted...

"what is your race/ethnicity" can feel more callous to people's white guilt, but it's straightforward with its intent, which is strictly better

and pretty much everyone agreed with me
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SeabassDebeste posted...

it's not about "being offended."

many children of non-WASP immigrants grow up thinking of themselves as culturally "mostly white," with maybe some values from the motherland regarding relationships to alcohol, hard work, religion, maybe a second language spoken at home.

it's not choosing to be offended when being treated as a perpetual outsider is clearly not a choice. even if it's not mentioned, it's implicit that you're 'not one of us.'

for many people, that distinction in how others perceive them is their entire racial experience. you can ignore it, but it doesn't make it not true.

fuckin thank you

id like to say im surprised by the pushback, but i almost forgot that no white person can accept the fact that they mightve commited an act of racism in their life. as if the admission of one simple instance where they may have been racially insensitive condemns them as a filthy racist for life.
i just wanted to complain about an annoying thing that a lot of white people do. sorry i blamed you all for slavery

MysticBrohan posted...

as if the admission of one simple instance where they may have been racially insensitive condemns them as a filthy racist for life.

the problem is that theres a significant portion of minorities/activists who actually think this way now. theres this growing sentiment in modern SJ that if you fuck up once youre an irredeemable bigot forever and should be shunned everywhere (see callout culture etc.), so it makes sense that people get more defensive/paranoid in response to that.
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MysticBrohan posted...

id like to say im surprised by the pushback, but i almost forgot that no white person can accept the fact that they mightve commited an act of racism in their life. as if the admission of one simple instance where they may have been racially insensitive condemns them as a filthy racist for life.
i just wanted to complain about an annoying thing that a lot of white people do. sorry i blamed you all for slavery

I'm sorry about white people

I assure you most of them are genuinely, if naively, just curious

A few years ago, one of my cousins (white family from rural red state, USA) started dating an Indian girl, and eventually they took a trip to visit her family in India for a couple weeks.

Then at Thanksgiving....man. my whole generation in the family wanted to find somewhere to hide when the aunts/uncles started asking her questions about india. Lol. I could not believe the ignorance of some of them. They were mostly respectful on the surface, just oblivious to a lot of stuff.

Wish it was easier to give people perspective but I think the only way to progress is with time.
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thats so false. thats just how white people see it. have you ever spoken to anyone who genuinely felt that way? because the sentiment i just posted about white people not being able to admit to racism is one ive shared with dozens of poc throughout my life. white people like to tell themselves that so they dont have to worry about admitting guilt to anything because i know im not a racist. i would be so beyond refreshed if i called someone out on something hey said that was racially insensitive and they went oh shit youre right, sorry. its happened literally zero times in my life
im not calling any of you racists, but you cant expect me not to want to be treated as your equal.

SeabassDebeste posted...

it doesn't happen anymore, but it *did* happen. the first half of the article is more proof that discrimination among different types of white people no longer happens, and that being 'ethnic' is a bonus if you're white. second link mentions that it never worked if you weren't at least white-passing.

Yes, I know.

I'm saying the fact that I get these types of discussions from people, which are functionally identical to the stuff that Drak or Brohan is talking about, despite that kinda thing no longer happening anymore and also being white, is a sign that race or any sort of inherent issue existing in society doesn't really have anything to do with it.

Keep in mind I'm not citing this as evidence to say racism in America doesn't exist, just that these types of discussions irritating you for whatever reason is a completely independent thing from that.
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Is that in response to my comment or Paras?
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Paratroopa1 posted...

MysticBrohan posted...

id like to say im surprised by the pushback, but i almost forgot that no white person can accept the fact that they mightve commited an act of racism in their life. as if the admission of one simple instance where they may have been racially insensitive condemns them as a filthy racist for life.
i just wanted to complain about an annoying thing that a lot of white people do. sorry i blamed you all for slavery

I'm sorry about white people

I assure you most of them are genuinely, if naively, just curious

thats the thing. i dont need you to apologize on behalf of all white people (though i do appreciate it lol). i know the question isnt coming from a place of malice 9 times out of 10, and more often then not i take the high road and simply indulge them. but there comes a time when the innocuousness and naivety of the question stop excusing the way it makes people feel.

Zyxyz0 posted...

Is that in response to my comment or Paras?

yours, sorry for not quoting
also sorry if i came off kinda rude/mean, not my intention at all.

well I kinda deserve people being rude/mean to me tbf, especially regarding something like this, so Im not offended or anything lol
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dude your self-esteem is so low its crazy
you dont deserve to be treated with anything less than respect. im genuinely sorry for how i came off.
and just because youre not super informed on a topic doesnt mean you deserve to be treated poorly. just take everything as a learning experience

well I guess what I was thinking about is, if a poc (or whatever other minority) feels better by yelling at me/making fun of me/telling me to kms/etc, then they have the right to do that imo. like when people say stuff like kill all cis people and say its fine because its just venting/coping. their feelings are more important than mine after all, its kinda a reparations sort of thing I guess.

(obv you havent done this so maybe a bit offtopic, but w/e)
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everyone's feelings are of equal merit in a vacuum, it's unhealthy in the long-term to consider your feelings to be subordinate to those of others. see, this is the type of white guilt that gives fuel to the fire of those more "socially conservative". no one really wants white people, cis people, men, or any other privileged group so consider themselves gabage and kill themselves or w/e. dont let people yell at you lmao

@Zyxyz0 from almost every indication i've seen on b8 you're pretty great, so you don't need to beat yourself up over stuff.

i'm assuming you're american for everything that follows and have been talking solely from an american POV for everything, mind

the great thing about being white is, no one really judges your character for being white. 'where are you from' basically means 'where did you grow up'; if a white person commits the worst mass shooting in history it's because he was mentally disturbed and not because he was white; if people complain 'white people are so racist,' they understand that that doesn't mean every white person is racist

it's the same way if someone is cisgendered and commits a crime, no one will point to their being cisgendered as a cause of the crime. in fact they'll usually not even notice that the person is cisgendered because that is the norm. it doesn't affect that person's character

in short, unless you personally have done something to offend someone else, no one should be telling you to kill yourself, and you shouldn't accept that, what the fuck.
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NioraptH posted...

Them: But Muslims are from the Middle East.

Me: I'm part Malay, part Chinese, from Southeast Asia.

Them: But you can't be. You're Muslim. There are no such things as Chinese Muslims.

Me: ... Is there anything else?

Them: Just tell me where you're really from.

I teach at a university and I hear this conversation happen every semester. It's wild how poor a job the U.S. education system does in teaching about world religions other than Christianity.

NioraptH posted...

Them: But Muslims are from the Middle East.

Me: I'm part Malay, part Chinese, from Southeast Asia.

Them: But you can't be. You're Muslim. There are no such things as Chinese Muslims.

Me: ... Is there anything else?

Them: Just tell me where you're really from.

yeah this is dumb

thinking about it more, I don't mind the initial question of "where are you from?" it's a legit good conversation starter if the person is an immigrant, a student from overseas, etc. and it's not like you can tell just from looking whether someone fits those categories.

but when I say where I'm from, I get annoyed if people question it, as if they somehow know better than me where I can and can't be from
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Wait people actually have an issue with sharing their heritage.

I stand with what I said earlier.
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No one needs to apologize for anything, even if you are one who asks people "what are you". People are just talking about personal experiences ITT.

Also tangentially unrelated, you can't absolve yourself of guilt for white slavery just because you never owned slaves. It's illegal to own slaves now so obviously you haven't. But if you definitely would've owned some back in the day when it was chill and status quo (MWC, lopen, etc) then you should feel just as bad.
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Back when it was chill and status quo I would be in Russia have you read nothing
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Russia had slaves. But yes I def skipped over most of your posts.
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MysticBrohan posted...

"No you're not"

I haven't read a single post of this topic but I just wanted to comment that they ALWAYS say this

its like

why the fuck did you ask if you're not gonna believe me
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Russia had slaves but they weren't predominantly black

Hell my ancestors probably were slaves.
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Never had people ask me this on my trips abroad.

Well, one time a deli girl asked me:

What are you, Mario?

But thats because I was wearing a Mario hat at the time

Anyway I think Id be okay if they clarified what they mean with that question. But not if they insist Im something else. Like holy **** Nios case, what the hell?
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I have rarely had "no you're not" but I think that's because I've moved away from actually answering the question, and I am ambiguous enough that when I do answer anything non-white they don't find reason to question it.
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Punnyz posted...

MysticBrohan posted...

"No you're not"

I haven't read a single post of this topic but I just wanted to comment that they ALWAYS say this

its like

why the fuck did you ask if you're not gonna believe me

god its so infuriating

white but people always expect me to be like really Italian or even know the language because of my last name (Giovannini). I always find it to be a pretty weird assumption *shrug*
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Responding to your original question, I'm probably guilty of what you're talking about (usually "where are you from?" early into the conversation) but I never thought it was rude or anything assuming they can also ask me questions about where I'm from. For whatever reason when I'm travelling I find it really interesting keeping a mental note of the demographics of people I come across etc. E.g. When I visited Australia two months ago something like 40% of people I came across in hostels were German! In comparison I'm a New Zealander and met only 4 other New Zealanders during my time there. That amazes me. It's also interesting learning about the similarities and differences across languages and cultures, not in a stereotyping or malicious way.
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I mean it is a distinctly weird thing to go around surveying people's demographics so as long as you realize that, that's fine
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I think it's kinda neat when traveling

like being on a tourist bus with people from around the world - it's cool to hear where everyone's from
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