Board 8 > "so what are you?"

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Lopen posted...

I always get asked if I'm Polish, causing me to correct people and say I'm Russian

But I heard this kinda thing only happens if you're not white so I'm probably internally exaggerating how often it happens

Oh no it happens to white people too, but instead of being annoyed, they get this awesome sense of victimization that they can use for smugness and superiority. Like a shot of race pride straight in their veins.
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MZero11 posted...

I don't get why people get offended by this

Oh wow really??
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You guys are obsessed with some of the strangest stuff
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MysticBrohan posted...

SSJBGenkiDama posted...

TomNook posted...

SSJBGenkiDama posted...

MysticBrohan posted...

anyone who doesnt is a sociopath tbh

Nothing to be guilty for as a race personally anymore than any other.

Every race has sucked.
Every race has also had great people.

But only whites had slaves and that's pretty much the worst.

Let me blow your mind here.

Every race has had slaves..

not sure about every but definitely plenty of non-white races

Blacks
Whites
Asians
Native Americans
South Americans
Eastern Europeans
Astrailians

(Most of those aren't strictly races, but it does cover every person ever born, and every single on of them has had slaves...)

Man people without white guilt sure do love explaining in extensive detail how they are not guilty for slavery
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MZero11 posted...

I don't get why people get offended by this. People ask where other people are from all the time, whether it's a city, state, or country. Like white people ask each other where they're from too, and also what their ancestry is. But when it's a white person asking a minority it's suddenly horrible and racist.

yeah, there's nothing wrong with asking someone where they're from. "where are you from" "illinois" "me too, I grew up around the Chicago area" "oh neat" and then we chat about pizza or something

but if I say "illinois" and get "no where are you REALLY from" uhh I am REALLY from illinois thx
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it's not about "being offended."

many children of non-WASP immigrants grow up thinking of themselves as culturally "mostly white," with maybe some values from the motherland regarding relationships to alcohol, hard work, religion, maybe a second language spoken at home.

it's not choosing to be offended when being treated as a perpetual outsider is clearly not a choice. even if it's not mentioned, it's implicit that you're 'not one of us.'

for many people, that distinction in how others perceive them is their entire racial experience. you can ignore it, but it doesn't make it not true.
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Gatarix posted...

but if I say "illinois" and get "no where are you REALLY from" uhh I am REALLY from illinois thx

To be fair this isn't so bad, because you can plainly know that person is an idiot

The worst is when it's a regular nice person who accepts your answer but you can just feel that twinge of disappointment they get... can't help but feel a bit sorry for yourself
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MysticBrohan posted...

also reminds me of when someone is like "oh do you know sarah" or something. yeah i just got done taling shit about you with her on our private arabic chat

An ex-coworker of mine is from the tiny island of Saipan. As a douchey joke, I asked her if she knew the only other Saipanese person I had ever met, who was an old college classmate from a different decade and a different state.

She totally did. She knew the whole family. I couldn't fucking believe it.
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unrelated to race, it can be painful for me when i interact with someone with a much wider social network than i have. i'll say where i spent X amount of time, and they'll ask 'oh do you know _____? they were there at the same time as you!' ... the answer has never been yes.
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I'm unsure why people would think racists would be striking up a conversation with them and why "it's just a dumb conversation starter don't overthink it" isn't the more common reaction.

Keep in mind that America is a country built on celebrating its diversity. I think the people who you should be defensive towards in this regard probably aren't the ones trying to strike up a conversation with you.
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What else do you think Lopen

Hit us with more of that good stuff
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Lopen posted...

I'm unsure why people would think racists would be striking up a conversation with them and why "it's just a dumb conversation starter don't overthink it" isn't the more common reaction.

Keep in mind that America is a country built on celebrating its diversity. I think the people who you should be defensive towards in this regard probably aren't the ones trying to strike up a conversation with you.

BANG!!!

Gatarix posted...

yeah, there's nothing wrong with asking someone where they're from. "where are you from" "illinois" "me too, I grew up around the Chicago area" "oh neat" and then we chat about pizza or something

you been to hartigan's ice cream up near northwestern's stadium?

i practically lived in that place when I lived in evanston
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Lopen, I don't think anyone is claiming that the people initiating these conversations are actual bigots or explicit racists. We (or at least I) are poking fun at the fact that White is still the accepted norm in the US, and that anything else is subject to (generally friendly) probing by white people.

Black people, on average, probably have just as lengthy an American history as white people, so you'd think they would ask the same questions... but I don't think a black person has ever cared to ask about my ethnicity.
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Lopen posted...

I'm unsure why people would think racists would be striking up a conversation with them and why "it's just a dumb conversation starter don't overthink it" isn't the more common reaction.

This is mostly what I was going for. Obviously it depends on how it's asked and there are of course offensive ways to do it, but the majority of the time I give them the benefit of the doubt that they're just curious.
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Man I love being asked this question, it's a really good conversation starter and I have a pretty unique background so it usually warms people up.

I do recall one time in missouri when it was asked with hostility though, that shit aint cool.
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Like I phrased it in a snarky way before, but I really don't see how my situation of constantly being asked if I'm Polish (my last name is weird and people I interact with often know my last name) as one of the first things randoms talk to me about is all that different than these so called "racially charged" moments. Hell I've literally had the situation Drak described occur to me-- "where are you from?" "Santa Fe" "no I meant your name, are you Polish?" "Oh. I'm Russian, actually"

I've never cared even remotely. I think it's cool. I usually make some joke about how I'm a Russian Spy or something.

We can create our own oppression. Don't overthink it.
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I have the same problem, but with Hispanics. People always assume I'm Hispanic because of the way I look, and get pissed off at me when I tell them I can't speak Spanish for "not knowing my heritage" or some bullshit like that. I get this conversation at least once a week:

"Why don't you speak Spanish?! Where are you from!"
Me: "Here."
"I mean your parents! Where are they from?!"
Me: "Maryland."
"You're not Mexican?"
Me: "No."
"Oh."
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when i lived abroad people would ask where i was from a lot, which is understandable

strangely they would never guess i was american, even after hearing me talk. closest was canadian.

i took it as a compliment
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Lopen posted...

Like I phrased it in a snarky way before, but I really don't see how my situation of constantly being asked if I'm Polish (my last name is weird and people I interact with often know my last name) as one of the first things randoms talk to me about is all that different than these so called "racially charged" moments. Hell I've literally had the situation Drak described occur to me-- "where are you from?" "Santa Fe" "no I meant your name, are you Polish?" "Oh. I'm Russian, actually"

it most def is an issue where people are being hyper-sensitive. Foolmo even said he doesn't mind when people ask the direct question they're thinking of. It's just 2017 and we get upset at people who don't perfectly sculpt their sentences to avoid offending everyone.
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it's not like I think the person is RACIST it's just mildly annoying

granted, I think most small talk is mildly annoying. "what school do you go to?" "...oh, really? what did you major in?" zzz

most of the time it's just a polite exchange of banal information that neither party is interested in (let's get real you don't care about my major and I don't care about yours). so I guess "where are you from" is not particularly worse than other common options

FFDragon posted...

Gatarix posted...

yeah, there's nothing wrong with asking someone where they're from. "where are you from" "illinois" "me too, I grew up around the Chicago area" "oh neat" and then we chat about pizza or something

you been to hartigan's ice cream up near northwestern's stadium?

i practically lived in that place when I lived in evanston

nope. I haven't done much roaming outside the loop area
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I don't mind topical smalltalk. It's "what's up" and "how are you doing?" that tend to bug me as openers since the prompt is too damn vague.
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Lopen posted...

but I really don't see how my situation of constantly being asked if I'm Polish as one of the first things randoms talk to me about is all that different

Because your reaction to it is to feel smug and vindicated when it happens, and hostile to non-white people who find it annoying.

I really don't know why you react that way, but it's definitely not up to me.
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foolm0r0n posted...

Because your reaction to it is to feel smug and vindicated when it happens, and hostile to non-white people who find it annoying.

maybe its because so many non-whites acting like whiny little bitches has caused the white community to feel less comfortable interacting with us??

That's why I'm hostile at least.
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"hey guys isn't it annoying whe-"

"HOLY SHIT RELAX DUDE why are you freaking out so much about such a tiny thing why don't you stop creating oppressions for every little innocent thing people say and pathetically obsessing over it so much and letting it keep you up at night while you cry and wonder why no one loves you ugh 2017 society is ruined it was so much better than in the 50s where you would get lynched for showing an ankle or implying the Earth was more than 6000 years old but hey at least you could ask your brown indentured servant what country they are from without being SHAMED"
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SantaRPidgey posted...

maybe its because so many non-whites acting like whiny little bitches has caused the white community to feel less comfortable interacting with us??

If clowning on white people makes me a whiny little bitch then call me Ulti cuz it's my favorite pastime
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so are you chinese or japanese
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foolm0r0n posted...

Because your reaction to it is to feel smug and vindicated when it happens

No I'm pretty sure this has literally never been my reaction to small talk. My reaction is to banter back with similar small talk and go on with my day never thinking about the specifics again.
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You act like like your side in the debate is cool as multiple cucumbers and ours in outraged while simultaneously defending the general outrage. I could probably go on youtube and find at least 5 videos with over 300k views where poc yell at/make fun of white people for this question, so please don't treat my two sentences in a gamefaqs topic like a mental breakdown.

The difference between viewpoints is that you're just talking about being openly hostile to people who are using a bad warm-up line, and I'm talking about how that hostility is creating literal actual stress for poc and quasi-poc (like myself) which is worse than the manufactured stress you're talking about.

Do I think white people who want the right to continue using this question, and who are offended that they can't are just as ridiculous if not more? Absolutely. But there literally are none of those in this topic (I assume? I haven't checked my ignore list in a while) so you're going to have to work a little harder on your strawman
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I don't mind when people ask me this, because if they don't they tend to assume I'm only white or occasionally latino, but I do mind that the response I get when I tell them I'm half-black (also known as "black") is "no you're not, you're kidding, right?" As if someone would willingly lie about being black to get that sick street cred.

Still, it's enough to cause me to have a brief crisis of identity every time I have to fill out a race identification form.
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you're catching flak because you're trivializing other people's experiences/calling them overreacting, simply because you want white people to feel more comfortable
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if I had a cool origin story like santa does, I might actively enjoy the question (p.s. what is it)

but I don't so
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irish/latino/middle eastern

so basically white but like an eggshell white so white people love me
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I've never been bothered by people asking where I'm from, personally. If anything, I kinda enjoy that they find it interesting and that it can provide some banal conversation to break the ice. I find it fun when they are surprised to know where I'm really from tbh. I get it in the sense that you're just struggling to find something to talk about at the start, it's just an easy go-to. Never even crossed my mind it could be obnoxious to some people and SD kinda hit the nail on the head as to why.

Reminds me of a time I asked a classmate with a French name if he was from France, and he got really pissed off, told me he was from Belgium and that he was sick of people asking if he was French. We never talked again, lolwhoops.
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I should note that I'm cool with questions about my ethnic and national background. It used to make me feel uncomfortable when I was growing up and was less confident, but now that I've "found my voice" as lame as that sounds, I usually welcome the conversation.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

you're catching flak because you're trivializing other people's experiences/calling them overreacting, simply because you want white people to feel more comfortable

but at some point we have to be able to trivialize other people's experiences, when they are minor enough. Again, I'm not defending my own person use of the line, I've never used it, personally. I'm telling other people to have a shred of empathy for the people asking them the question instead of just getting upset because 99% of the people who ask it in northern states are not being intentionally hostile.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

You act like like your side in the debate is cool as multiple cucumbers and ours in outraged while simultaneously defending the general outrage. I could probably go on youtube and find at least 5 videos with over 300k views where poc yell at/make fun of white people for this question, so please don't treat my two sentences in a gamefaqs topic like a mental breakdown.

Ok so go rant in those youtube videos instead of a topic where people are just making some fun. Embrace your true nature of angry youtube commenter.

And yes your small post #71 is more than enough to make fun of how sensitive and irrational you are to this.
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foolmo people don't ask to touch my hair anymore

do you know how much that hurts.
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SantaRPidgey posted...

I'm talking about how that hostility is creating literal actual stress for poc and quasi-poc (like myself) which is worse than the manufactured stress you're talking about.

There doesn't exist a single white person who hates poc because they made a joke about them saying "what are you"

There exist millions of white people who hate poc simply because they exist

How do you come to the conclusion that the solution to this is for poc to stop making tiny jokes, and still have enough cognitive-dissonance-immune righteousness left over to complain about how people are way too offended by tiny jokes in 2017??
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SantaRPidgey posted...

foolmo people don't ask to touch my hair anymore

do you know how much that hurts.

LOL I did that didn't I?

Oh well, I'm fine with being an annoying dick in that case. No need to rant about how society is broken in order to pretend I never do anything wrong.
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SeabassDebeste posted...

you're catching flak because you're trivializing other people's experiences/calling them overreacting, simply because you want white people to feel more comfortable

I'm not saying you should lighten up to make white people more comfortable

I'm saying you should lighten up for your own sake. If you feel victimized by stuff like this, which will happen with anyone who has any sort of distinctive different feature regardless of race, just getting by in society must be a constant struggle.

Basically, you can make anything about race or nationality if you really want to-- just as you can take any other question or comment defensively in any sort of way. If I were a different person, I might be upset at constantly being guessed as polish, or getting occasional questions about whether I do marijuana (because I have long hair?) or people assuming I'm some tech geek because I'm a software engineer or know how to fix their computer, or whatever else. But I just don't care-- how many social faux pas or assumptions the person you're talking to shouldn't matter as much as their tone, reactions, eye contact, etc. Those are the kind of things that should make you feel awkward or irritated. In icebreaker conversation the words just don't really matter all that much.
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foolm0r0n posted...

There doesn't exist a single white person who hates poc because they made a joke about them saying "what are you"

There exist millions of white people who hate poc simply because they exist

I honestly fail to see the relevance to this conversation?

foolm0r0n posted...

How do you come to the conclusion that the solution to this is for poc to stop making tiny jokes, and still have enough cognitive-dissonance-immune righteousness left over to complain about how people are way too offended by tiny jokes in 2017??

ok this is a fairly good point

except I'm not even asking poc to stop making tiny jokes. My issue comes not from the tiny jokes, but the implications that this question is part of a bigger picture of systemic racism.
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foolm0r0n posted...

SantaRPidgey posted...

foolmo people don't ask to touch my hair anymore

do you know how much that hurts.

LOL I did that didn't I?

Oh well, I'm fine with being an annoying dick in that case. No need to rant about how society is broken in order to pretend I never do anything wrong.

at least now I have proof you were complicit in the movement.

argument won.
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Underleveled posted...

Was going to say a miserable pile of secrets.

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Lopen posted...

I'm not saying you should lighten up to make white people more comfortable

I'm saying you should lighten up for your own sake. If you feel victimized by stuff like this, which will happen with anyone who has any sort of distinctive different feature regardless of race, just getting by in society must be a constant struggle.

Basically, you can make anything about race or nationality if you really want to-- just as you can take any other question or comment defensively in any sort of way. If I were a different person, I might be upset at constantly being guessed as polish, or getting occasional questions about whether I do marijuana (because I have long hair?) or people assuming I'm some tech geek because I'm a software engineer or know how to fix their computer, or whatever else. But I just don't care-- how many social faux pas or assumptions the person you're talking to shouldn't matter as much as their tone, reactions, eye contact, etc. Those are the kind of things that should make you feel awkward or irritated. In icebreaker conversation the words just don't really matter all that much.

1. was addressing santa with that comment; he definitely commented about making white people uncomfortable.

2. i'm personally fine (other than being physically assaulted earlier this year by a racist making racist remarks). i don't feel personally victimized at all by questions like this. like i said earlier, i'm not 'getting offended' on behalf of myself; it's more systemic and it does inform people's identities - it's the type of stuff that forces identity upon you based on circumstance instead of choice. and it's not entirely trivial; language influences thought.

3. long hair and profession are choices. and your point about having an eastern european last name that doesn't bother you is fine - but what about the tons of poles and russians who changed their name to avoid this type of question? our president's name comes from one such change in effort to become more 'regular white.'
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SantaRPidgey posted...

at least now I have proof you were complicit in the movement.

argument won.

That is ACTUALLY ad hominem you know?
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SeabassDebeste posted...

tons of poles and russians who changed their name to avoid this type of question?

Citation needed.

Also I don't see how it being a choice matters all that much. I think my hair looks better long than short, and I happen to be good at those things-- these reactions from random people weren't presented to me upon making these choices and didn't weigh into my decisions. Just because I can in theory alter these things doesn't mean it should be considered reasonable for me to be expected to change my profession, skills, or hair style to avoid certain questions. In fact with skin lightening treatments and various forms of plastic surgery becoming more and more advanced, it's possible there actually might be less burden upon you to alter your appearance than to change your entire career path at some point. Depending on the career it might already be the case.

That doesn't mean it at any point becomes anything resembling reasonable to expect someone to do that, but I'm just illustrating why "you chose your profession and aptitudes" is a kinda silly counterargument. Whether you choose the reactions is what matters, not whether you choose what's reacted to.
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because 1) the united states is a nation of immigrants, and

2) people like talking about themselves

it's on the level of horoscopes and astrology
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That being said, I don't want to veer too far off on the point-- the point is that random icebreaker questions are just first impressions and aren't really something to take seriously in general.

Whether your skin color being related to one of those icebreakers should be taken as "underlying racism is inherent in society and this should be stopped" or "people tend to talk about distinctive features of you as a person as an icebreaker, and when you're a minority that happens to be one of those distinctive features, no big" is up to you. The fact that you can get similarly cliched icebreakers routinely, based on your career choices, style of dress or hair, or name, should be a hint to which is the more likely case, I feel.
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