Board 8 > Dragon Ball Super 116 (SPOILERS)

(+) Yeah! (+)

i'm totally down for Universal Savior Kami Piccolo Nail.
the furry universe also gets to stay eliminated, which is a plus.
though i'm not sure what else can really prompt a "Gohan is mad" powerup.
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Wanglicious posted...

hell, if we're talking random powerups, Gohan somehow went from meh SSJ to Buu-levels to SSB Goku after training with Piccolo for a day, a guy who probably isn't even at the level of Goku's SSJ2.

and there's still a chance he gets a random powerup. quickest possibility i can think of is something that's going to hurt Gohan, Piccolo gets in the way, dies, and in the process the other person gets DQ'd. Gohan taps into his inner rage-boost and gets something that brings him above the SSB levels, though maybe not on Instinct.

In what way did he get to SSB levels? In case you forgot, once goku got serious he downed gohan in one punch.
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SSB with kaioken x20 downed Gohan in one punch.
Goku at SSB was fairly even with Gohan.
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Gohan's a family man. If a villain tries to kill Videl and Pan or actually succeeds at killing one or both I can't even imagine the rage Gohan would experience.

StealThisSheen posted...

I'm telling you, Super Piccolo Megazord is happening

Oh my god.

The Team Four Star potential on this one...
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...now that i think about it, Vegeta's in a major slump somehow.
he went powerup after powerup only to now be in a position where:

- Gohan was even with SSB, jobbed to SSB w/kaiokan x20
- Android 17 was even with SSB, unknown how much higher he can be
- Frieza was exactly the same level of SSB

i mean okay, Vegeta did some more hyperbolic training in that form but goddamn, that's three other people who are around his level or better from his own universe. if we get the Piccolo megazord, he could potentially drop out of the top 5.
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Gohan's is by all measures the least random of all since before the ToP Power-Up he's been shown to be wanting to get back into fighting form with Piccolo for like 2 arcs after being a relevant plot point since getting wrecked by Frieza

so he finally regained "Ultimate" for or w/e which was just retconned into being a power-up which I guess now scales up with his recent period of training whatever

but man Super has no idea what to do with Gohan at all, which I guess isn't a surprise since AT had no idea what to do with Gohan in the Buu Saga

Piccolo needs to absorb Porunga imho
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i wonder how long it takes to fight poachers to be SSB levels.
will goten and trunks also get a powerup for that?
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Wanglicious posted...

SSB with kaioken x20 downed Gohan in one punch.
Goku at SSB was fairly even with Gohan.

First off, we have no way to know it was x20, it could have been basic kaioken for all we know. Second, and I'm sure this argument is done to death, but isn't the entire thing about blue that he can control his energy at will, meaning he can be as weak or powerful as he wants? Like, saying Gohan is equal to SSB just isn't right because the implication there is "SSB at max power." Goku merely did the same thing he did to krillin, go blue and test his opponents' limits. Unless you're going to also claim that Krillin is "equal" to SSB goku as well since he momentarily pushed his kamehameha back >.>
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Emeraldegg posted...

Wanglicious posted...

SSB with kaioken x20 downed Gohan in one punch.
Goku at SSB was fairly even with Gohan.

First off, we have no way to know it was x20, it could have been basic kaioken for all we know. Second, and I'm sure this argument is done to death, but isn't the entire thing about blue that he can control his energy at will, meaning he can be as weak or powerful as he wants? Like, saying Gohan is equal to SSB just isn't right because the implication there is "SSB at max power." Goku merely did the same thing he did to krillin, go blue and test his opponents' limits. Unless you're going to also claim that Krillin is "equal" to SSB goku as well since he momentarily pushed his kamehameha back >.>

He was clearly implied to be 20 since Gohan said go at max... Granted there is no way to prove it of course.

Goku was fighting Gohan at max, that's literally what the fight was about. Gohan repeatedly told his dad to fight him at full power and his dad gradually agreed. even as the two dueled with him in SSB that was said, the entire point was to compare to a maxed out Goku. besides, it was the same aura as x20 too, which is different than the one at x10, and there's no reason DB would ever suddenly go lower just for fun. there ain't much point to going kaioken if you can push out more energy in SSB either, it's a multiplier to go beyond the levels SSB can provide. meaning yeah, Vegeta was already massively weaker than Goku by the time the tournament started.

Krillin's kamehameha being even with SSB Goku's kamehameha was pretty legit of him though, that's true. basically if he pours everything he's got he can momentarily be on par, similar to how Tien's tri-beam was able to stop imperfect Cell despite being massively weaker. the right technique can punch you up.
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Wanglicious posted...

Goku was fighting Gohan at max, that's literally what the fight was about. Gohan repeatedly told his dad to fight him at full power and his dad gradually agreed. even as the two dueled with him in SSB that was said, the entire point was to compare to a maxed out Goku. besides, it was the same aura as x20 too, which is different than the one at x10, and there's no reason DB would ever suddenly go lower just for fun. there ain't much point to going kaioken if you can push out more energy in SSB either, it's a multiplier to go beyond the levels SSB can provide. meaning yeah, Vegeta was already massively weaker than Goku by the time the tournament started.

Krillin's kamehameha being even with SSB Goku's kamehameha was pretty legit of him though, that's true. basically if he pours everything he's got he can momentarily be on par, similar to how Tien's tri-beam was able to stop imperfect Cell despite being massively weaker. the right technique can punch you up.

The only reason the Tri-beam could do that was because it's the only technique that we know of that actually uses the user's life force instead of their ki.

I just rewatched the fight. Goku goes blue for four blows and then goes SSBKK. You think that's an accurate representation of how even they are? Gohan's blows have 0 effect on Goku at that point. I simply find it much more likely, especially given the scenario, that goku is not going all out at that point (before kaioken) and is simply testing gohan. I mean if we're using equivalency here, we've seen Goku when he says he's using max power, and that's his kamehameha vs merged zamasu. Nothing we've seen from gohan has indicated that he can output that kind of power, that thing was enormous. Also, fwiw, gohan did get basically ko'd by golden frieza, while they were both holding back. Golden frieza is implied to be as strong as SSB levels atm. I just really doubt that gohan would be able to get the hakai energy under control the way frieza did, but again that's merely speculation on my part since we don't know if goku could do it if he was at max.

My point about the kaioken wasn't me saying that it for sure was lower than 10x, it was meant to be a point that we dont' know what level it is. How exactly does 20x look any different than 10x? When goku goes 20x against jiren, it's meant to be a super big deal that goku can even go that high now, meaning we as the audience aren't supposed to know he can do that yet. Like the first time we even hear the words Kaioken x20 and SSB in the same sentence are in the tournament of power. Do you think they would have made Goku actually use the technique before its big reveal? That's not their style. There is a reason that DB would go lower, and it's to give us a willing suspense of disbelief. They've done it before, think about it. In super alone, we've had:
Goku NOT using Kaioken against Hit the 2nd OR 3rd times he faces him.
Goku NOT using Kaioken against goku black, and he uses it on merged zamasu for 5 seconds, despite both of these characters being vastly more
threatening than Hit.

This may not be what you had in mind, but it still is the same concept: Goku not using his full power to preserve the plot/drama.
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well yes, goku was testing gohan's power, which is why he was getting his ass kicked. gohan told him to go max, goku went blue, both hit each other a few times for minimal effect, so goku busted out kaioken and went max power, to test gohan at his own request. i mean you even saw vegeta turn around in shock when the two clashed, pretty clear that goku was going full steam to do it.

10x generally has more red around it than 20, which has pretty defined colors on each aura in the way Goku had it. though granted, you could offset that to animation budget being so much better right now. though either way i'm not sure what you're really arguing here as you were questioning whether Gohan was at SSB levels. by virtue of using SSB + kaioken, Goku readily admits that Gohan is at that level.

and the gohan/frieza fight was completely staged so i'm not sure why you'd bring it up. the entire idea behind that was for gohan to "be KO'd," that's why everyone was surprised when he got right back up like nothing had happened - nothing did. there was no damage and the fight was set up for frieza to be the winner. so far the biggest thing about Gohan is that he's very inexperienced compared to the rest so he ends up being kinda shit, despite the stupidly high power he's got.
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