Board 8 > Hearthstone Discussion Topic: Kobolds and Catacombs

(+) Yeah! (+)

New Expansion Hype!

Less hyped for more Ulti rants about how this game takes no skill yet his constant refusal to stop playing
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Tag

Bland title is bland
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cube hype

breakfast hype
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with all the good minions I feel this would probably fit well in tempo rogue
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Yay, more Keleseths...
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Look my dragon does three to everything

Haha my patches has four hp
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It actually might work with quest rogue and chargers too

so a boar just keeps hitting and then all of a sudden you play 5 boars and quest completed
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A rogue tried to quest against tempo rogue and got it done like on turn 5 and still lost to a bad draw on my end because it doesnt have a way to fight for board before hand
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What cycles out next year? This will determine whether I play again or sit out for another year.
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old gods/karazhan/mean streets

the worst set is rotating out next year don't worry
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Hmmm, I'll have to think about it. Removing Ice Block or not will play a big factor.

I'm not a huge fan of quests or Death Knights either because some of them throw a time limit down that forces you to win or be overwhelmed. DK Anduin is one but without Kazakus, it won't be so bad. Jaina is another. Quest Mage is another if Ice Block doesn't go. Pre-nerf, quest Rogue had this as well.
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Important cards leaving

WotoG
cthun
All the old gods
Faceless Shambler (purify priest)
Deathwing dragon lord
Mark of yshaarj
More keeper
Fandral
Cabalist time
Rallying blade
Vilefin inquisitor
Shadow word horror
Darkshire councilman
Nzoths first mate
Ravaging ghoul

Kara
Netherspite historian
Arcane giant
Barnes
Mediv
The curator
Enchanted raven
Kindly grandmother
Firelands portal
Medivs valet
Priest of the feast
Purify
Babling book
Maelstrom portal
Melcazars imp
Swashburgler

Mean streets
Mistress of mixtures
Dopplegangster
Dirty rat
Patches
Finja
Kun
Jade package
Volcanic potion
Cabal crystal runner
Mark of the lotus
Alley cat
Potion of madness
Pint size
Operative
Dragonflies
Raza
Abyssal enforcer
Kazakus
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Ice Block was basically given away to be gone next rotation

But if you like grindy control then the game may not be heading your way, game seems to want to deviate away from that and create more flashy, value centric win cons
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Hey, as long as it's not heading towards more aggro I'll be somewhat happy.
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I don't mind value-centric win conditions. I'm not sure I like "flashy" though, because that usually means combo BS. The only way to beat combo decks is to pressure them, which means playing aggro. The decks I tend to prefer typically fare poorly against both combo and aggro decks.

I miss my old jade pirate rogue from Gadgetzan. It had both solid pressure in the early turns and a tremendous late game presence. Then critical cards rotated out and I haven't found anything I really liked since.
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Rogue Arena (cont)

Updates on this run have been fairly slow. I think after spending so much time not playing arena I realized I can pretty much do without it. Been playing other games and doing other things in the meantime. That being said I do still get the urge to play this game from time to time. I'm at 4-1 apparently with this trash deck.

Game 6: Rogue Mirror. You already know I went Second. Coin Perdition's Blade to buy some tempo. Daring Reporter on turn 4 eats a Shadow Strike. I go wide onto the board and never look back. I play a 9/8 Furnacefire Collosus on turn 8. Not sure this is even the right move but I didn't have the mana to play my shadow blade first anyway so it was the only move. With only 18 health left this sets up a two turn lethal he cannot escape. Win.

Game 7: Vs Paladin. I finally get to go first. Bad opening hand. Somehow even WORSE after the mulligan. So basically any advantage of going first is completely nullified. And he has Grimestreet Outfitter on turn 1 with a hand full of minions. Violet Illusionist to save the day and help me avoid taking 8 damage to the face in order to secure the board by just turn 3. Of course he has a buffed Saronite Chain Gang to play while holding Sword of Justice so who fucking cares what cards I'm even holding. This guy has unlocked Single Player Hearthstone. Oh and he just naturally has Hogger in his deck. I'm left holding a hand that is still completely filled with unplayable, expensive cards. 4 health. And his entire board is filled with buffed minions. This is the game I am currently playing when I could be doing literally anything else with my time. Loss.

Game 8: Vs Mage. I go first again. I draw some playable minions this time. Coin + Primordial Glyph... God damn this is a terrible play. I can only imagine what manner of brode-tier RNG results this guy has been gifted in the past. We all know how this guy got to 5+ wins. He makes a few more god awful plays... I guess they were supposed to be value trades or something...? I go face, because that is the place. Even Firelands Portal couldn't save this poor guy. Win.

Game 9: Vs Shaman. We're back to going second. I actually can't complain this time because I get some solid three drops and I'm sitting on the coin. This absolute piece of shit actually picked the spell avalanche and got rewarded for it because no one in the history of hearthstone should ever pick avalanche and so there would never be any reason to expect your opponent should ever have it. I don't know if this is brilliance or complete madness. He makes quite a few garbage plays so my natural assumption is that he has no idea what he's doing and picked the card by accident. Still funny though. Literally has Bloodlust on the turn where I fill his board with 1/1 raptors. Then he gives me a 2/2 ghoul on the same turn where he plays the 2/2 skeleton that gives me a 5/5 when I kill it. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU DOING MAN. I should be happy to win but I'm actually just mad that he's so bad at the game. Win.

Game 10: Vs Paladin. I went First. Good opening hand. Maybe I can redeem the last awful paladin match. Of course not. Of course that would never happen. Despite me having good cards, I get put into the rare but exact awkward situation where they can't be played out on curve and I'm forced to do not much of anything. Literally my only plan for this match was to try and keep his board clear and prevent bullshit like Spikeridged Steed or Bonemare and the entire match was just him flooding the board with minions that are impossible to easily remove even going first and having weapons at my disposal. And then Argent Commander, his third low health divine shield minion, to finish me off. Loss.

Final Result: 7-3

Put up impressive results with a bad deck but I didn't feel like I had very much fun.
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Camden posted...

Hey, as long as it's not heading towards more aggro I'll be somewhat happy.

Aggro is not the problem.

The problem is that we are late into a rotation so the only decks that exists are ones with highly abusable synergies or just busted mechanics. The game is not going to get better until the first set of 2018. and this is the worst the game has ever been.
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KokoroAkechi posted...

and this is the worst the game has ever been.

I don't think I'd go that far. There are definitely metas I was way less interested in.
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Despite not playing too much right now, this is probably one of my favorite metas
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KokoroAkechi posted...

Aggro is not the problem.

Aggro is always the problem to me.
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this arena meta at the very least is better than it was a few weeks ago. not sure exactly where it ranks. hard to say with so little information.

#1 Worst: Death Knight Arena Meta
#2 Worst: Karazhan Arena Meta
#3 Worst: Un'Goro Arena Meta

I've heard good things about Mean Streets but I wasn't playing during that time because Karazhan was so bad that it drove me away from Arena for a time.

as for constructed uhhhh.... who cares, I guess. I wouldn't say I'm qualified to rank constructed meta because I don't play it and don't enjoy playing it.
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Constructed is fine, ungoro was more balanced but eh.

The big three (Rogue/Druid/Priest) seem stronger than the rest of the field but even the fodder classes (warrior/Hunter/Shaman) you can at least make something out of them
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I play a lot of shaman. Its not a good class. Basically whatever strategy is employs another class can do it better right now and the only way Ive found success this meta is counter queuing a moat lurker variant against big Druid and big priest.

As far as arena I think the best was old gods and the worst was probably dk followed by like tgt arena and kara
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old gods was definitely tops. very high quality arena and constructed was fairly good too.

also at least shaman was the indisputable top class for like a year and a half. but man that was so long ago, too. I actually think shaman is more interesting now despite being less powerful. they're one of the few classes that doesn't cheat out a win condition. but too much reliance on the evolve RNG for it to be fun for me.
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Another board clear for Priest!
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Reynads face days it all
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Remember when Shaman and Priest were both sub par classes when the game first came out and we all said they needed buffs?

Next time, we should just shut our mouths.
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Psychic Scream/Archbishop combo wombo
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KokoroAkechi posted...

Reynads face days it all

imagine being the person who has to reveal THIS card during the meta where priest is already dominating with a totally unfair deck
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Arena #3
Offered: Hunter/Rogue/Priest
Picked: Rogue

The Draft: God awful. There's no other phrase to describe it. My entire deck is filled with clunky, unplayable garbage. I got a Bonemare near the end but there's no case where I will ever have control over the board or likely even survive until turn 7. If I thought my last few decks were bad just... wow. Multiple times I was offered side by side completely unplayable cards like Roll the Bones and the 0 attack imp that gives +2 spell damage.

Game 1: Vs Mage. I went Second. He has Sorcerer's Apprentice into an endless stream of reduced cost cheap early game removal spells. And by endless I reaaallyyy mean endless. He plays two flame geysers, forbidden flame, frost bolt. It's turn 6 before I kill the Sorcerer's Apprentice, I don't get a single minion to stick the entire game, and I'm already dead at that point anyway. Loss.

Game 2: Vs Warlock. I went Second. I survive long enough to get some value out of my big clunky minions despite this guy also having enough removal to keep me from going anywhere remotely near the board for the first six turns. Menagerie Magician gives me lethal. Gotta admit I love it when goofy fucking terrible cards like this show up in the hero role. Win.

Come to think of it, I actually do have a few Beasts and Dragons in this deck. And Curator... Now witness the birth of the new Menagerie Arena Rogue!

Game 3: Vs Hunter. I went First. I drew my Emerald Hive Queen on turn 1 aw yeah. Dagger on turn 2. Clutch envenom weapon helps me secure the mid game. Clutch Bonemare topdeck on turn 7. The only playable card in my deck. I push face for on board lethal set up. Hunter cannot clear a board. Win.

Game 4: Vs Mage. I went Second. Turn 1 Hive Queen again. Lucky! Midnight Drake goes HAM as a 7/4 on turn 4. It has synergy with having a hand full of unplayable trash!!! He has to pray on a Bane of Doom off of a Kabal Courier. Of course it gives him the 3/8 taunt. Envenom Weapon for the save. He has Blizzard to buy himself some time, but using it on a single minion must not feel great. I immediately go wide on the board after he plays out his AoE. Keening Banshee also has synergy with unplayable garbage cards in my deck (Razorpetal Volley/Thunder Lizard/Acoltye of Pain discarded). Wow, so much synergy!!! Win.

Game 5: Vs Mage. I Went Second. No, this is not me accidentally hitting Ctrl+V. It's just the same bullshit three times in five games. And I've only gone first once. LOL. Worst opening hand so far of the run. I topdeck Undercity Huckster to avoid missing a two drop at least. Went about as well as you might expect. Loss.
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First arena game a warlock

Turn 1: I play Firefly
Opponent: plays brewmaster

Turn 2: I play Blood Bloom + Bane of doom. Get Pit Lord
Opponent: Plays a minion without taunt

Turn 3: I play Bloodfury Potion on my Pit Lord. I attack face and think about if i want to trade the 1/2 into the 3/1.
Opponent: You have bested me.
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MariaTaylor posted...

I actually think shaman is more interesting now despite being less powerful. they're one of the few classes that doesn't cheat out a win condition.

Dopplegangster + Evolve usually feels pretty cheaty to me. More often than not, the decks I'm playing are busy swatting aside the pesky crap the shaman plays up thru turn 5, and then that happens. I'm actually proud of myself when a shaman gets it off and I can still clear it, because usually that becomes the snowball point where the shaman just wins the game.
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Doppelgangster and evolve is still kinda mediocre against Dragonfire Potion most of the time

The Keleseth decks are all better at getting board too
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yeah by 'cheat out' I'm specifically referring to stuff like playing keleseth three times, dropping 9 drops on turn 4, 5, and again on 6 with Big Priest. to a lesser extent killing your opponent with shadowreaper but that's actually a separate issue that I consider less related to the 'cheating out' problem... more similar to Jade Druid in that it kills the ability to play control decks since you'll always lose to Shadowreaper Priest and Jade Druid since they either kill you instantly after a certain point or generate infinite value and regular/fair control decks do not do that.
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Playing 18 mana of stats for 6 mana isn't cheating out? Sure, it's random minions, but even if an average 6-drop has 4/5 in stats, that's 27 points of stats for 6 mana. Plus, shaman's gameplan otherwise is just to flood the board with crap, and once they achieve that, you're just a bloodlust away from death -- that's 18 or 21 damage for 5 mana. In both cases, you're getting 2.5x the "acceptable" rate for your mana.

The solutions VI names are popular meta solutions, yes, but I generally don't play tier 1 decks.
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only 90's kids will remember this guy


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azuarc posted...

Playing 18 mana of stats for 6 mana isn't cheating out?

now that I think about it you do have a point, yeah. it probably does fit into the same category. I think my brain wasn't processing it the same way because despite being really cheap and unfair the tier 1 decks are so damn oppressive that even the shaman's evolve shenanigans aren't good enough to make tier 1 right now.
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When your Early Game isnt good enough to keep Board presence its not that great. Plus a lot of 6 mana minions arent that good anymore. For every Highmane youre just as likely to get a big time racketeer
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyyvENspjac

Burrowing Mine Control Warrior

really intense/interesting game, too
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I have 80 gold quest, first to pm me gets to face off against me
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in battle.net, of course
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This isn't the worst the metas ever been, but it's pretty bad. I'd say right after quest rogue was nerfed but before KotFT was the only really good meta in a long time.

There's no one single deck that destroys everything like the several past expansions, but rogue, druid, and priest are so far ahead of everything else that it may as well be just those three classes. KaC will likely be pretty bad so I doubt I'll come back to play. Depending on how next years meta plays out after Mean Streets cycles, I might give it another try.
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the sad thing is that so many of the current problems with the meta have more or less been around since Mean Streets, or they are based on cards from that expansion. imagine an expansion being so bad that it ruins the meta for an entire year and only gets worse with each new release.

the power level on a lot of the new cards being revealed doesn't even look like it could remotely keep up with Jade Druid. don't get me wrong... that's a good thing. we don't need any more decks which are that stupid. problem is that we don't even need one to begin with, yet Jade Druid is still around.
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Game 6: Vs Druid. I went First. If he has Ultimate Infestation this deck is incapable of winning. For that reason I need to put on pressure and try to kill him before turn 10. He plays Crocolisk on turn 1, I have to play Mana Addict on turn 2. Then he buffs his with Archerus Veteran. Lol. So much for that plan. The next few turns are me playing shitty sub-par minions on curve and him playing overstatted bullshit minions like Crypt Lord in response. He makes a play so terrible on turn 8 I'm actually having a hard time describing it. Because it flat out makes zero sense. So we're going into topdeck mode with both empty hands, and we have a few minions on board. He plays a Wild Pyromancer and then shuffles three jade idols (ensuring he'll draw a 1 mana 1/1 at some point after going into topdeck mode). The Pyro then activates his own Enrage Minion... which he then trades in... to a minion with LESS health instead of the one he can now kill because it has boosted attack from Enrage. That being said, of course this total dunce topdecks Gadgetzan Auctioneer and then Wild Growth (getting another draw from Excess Mana) in exactly that order. Moonglade Portal summons him Sunwalker. HE NEVER DRAWS THE DEAD DRAW 1 mana 1/1 that he shuffled three copies into his deck despite it being the statistically most likely card that he would draw. I could go on and on. The game ends up being way closer than it has any right being. Both because my deck is F tier and I should have lost on turn 5, and because he's such a terrible player that he should never win a single game. Perhaps this contradiction is what allowed the match to go on for so long. There is some kind of cosmic justice though, because I do end up clinching it in the end. Win.

Game 7: Vs Warlock. I'm going First. I keep a curve that is... slightly high. But I'm willing to gamble that he may not have a strong early game in exchange for the chance to have a really, really strong curve in the mid game. I can dagger on turn 2 anyway. He plays Unlicensed Apothecary. I set up a situation where it's really favorable for him to trade it off, maintaining my 30 life total. Then I play my Midnight Drak on turn 4 and Menagerie Magician on turn 5. Unfortunately he kills the Drake before I can seize value. My "gamble" ends up being a wash and I just play some okay minions on curve. He plays removal from hand on turns 4 and 5 which really screw up my overall gameplan. Doomguard on turn 6 when he is already slightly ahead on board. I actually have enough heavy cards in my hand still to put up a good fight.



Rogue Vs Warlock is not supposed to look like this. Keening Banshee then goes BALLISTIC on this guy and he absolutely loses his mind. He spends two full minutes emoting at me nonstop before conceding.
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MariaTaylor posted...

the sad thing is that so many of the current problems with the meta have more or less been around since Mean Streets, or they are based on cards from that expansion. imagine an expansion being so bad that it ruins the meta for an entire year and only gets worse with each new release.

the power level on a lot of the new cards being revealed doesn't even look like it could remotely keep up with Jade Druid. don't get me wrong... that's a good thing. we don't need any more decks which are that stupid. problem is that we don't even need one to begin with, yet Jade Druid is still around.

Mostly correct. Jade Druid is due to Mean Streets. DK Anduin would be more tolerable if Raza didn't exist. Mean Streets doesn't have a huge impact on Rogue. Bonemare and Scalebane are both really good in Rogue and will be there for a long time to come. I think Rogue will be a real problem with KaC.
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Well that went from being the most fun I've had in HS in quite a while (the bonus added enjoyment from knowing your opponent is throwing a temper tantrum goes a long way) to really, really shitty. My computer basically froze about 30 seconds into the next match causing me to lose the game and end the run prematurely. I know this one is not Blizzard's fault but DAMN that is frustrating.

Oh well. Paladin is a terrible match up for me so I can ease the sting by knowing I likely would have lost the match anyway. 4-3 is probably further than that deck deserved to get.
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Raza is gone in the first expansion of next year. Tough it out. Or do what I do and stop playing until things get better. I watch pros stream but just don't play myself.
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I've found that watching other peopel play Hearthstone is more fun than actually playing Hearthstone.
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