Current Events > So...what is the "politically correct" view on Israel v Palestine?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I mean... I kind of think Israel is like...wrong..about this? Does that make me anti semitic?
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I haven't been following this latest news too closely, but it's been "fuck Isreal" ever since the whole African involuntary sterilization thing
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israel is literally an apartheid state. not supporting that doesn't make you antisemitic

israeli state =/= israeli people
israel =/= jews
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averagejoel posted...

israel is literally an apartheid state. not supporting that doesn't make you antisemitic

israeli state =/= israeli people
israel =/= jews

Israel is not apartheid.

there's a really good video by someone who actually experienced apartheid where he debunks this myth
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Israel is wrong hamas is wrong return the land to the Palestinian people
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I don't know about politically correct, but the correct view is not seeing it as a left vs. right issue.
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I'm pretty sure the only opinion which won't cause anyone to hate you is to feign some sort of mental issue which makes you literally incapable of comprehending the conflict.

As far as my own thoughts, correctness be damned, I haven't delved into it but what I have read suggests both sides have committed some pretty big atrocities - enough that I'm not willing to support either side, regardless of how legitimate their claim is.
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Here come all the "progressive liberals" to attack Israel.
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in a nute shell, christians supported israel and muslims backed palestine
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Nuke the middle east already
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The people in the Gaza Strip and many in the West Bank are forced into apartheid, basically.

The difference is that Israel (minus the "Palestinian territories") has something like a 20% Arab population I think, Arabs who are Israeli citizens who live in places like Tel Aviv. They get full rights. But the ones who are on the other side of the border in the Gaza Strip or West Bank? They don't get those rights. So it's like an apartheid South Africa where the whites let 20% of the population of the white areas become black to appease the people accusing them of racism, lol.
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A Jewish controlled state surrounded by countries that would eradicate them given the opportunity.
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CarlGrimes posted...

Here come all the "progressive liberals" to attack Israel.

And here come all the "conservatives" to attack anyone who dares to raise even a mildly critical voice against abuses of human rights when they're by one of America's allies, but savage anyone who fails to condemn abuses of human rights when they're by one of America's enemies.

No one can trust two-faced bastards to protect human rights or civil liberties when they'll piss on them one moment then turn around and make a crusade out of them the next, depending on what their party tells them to do. Stop playing political games.
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Funkdamental posted...

And here come all the "conservatives" to attack anyone who dares to raise even a mildly critical voice against abuses of human rights when they're by one of America's allies, but savage anyone who fails to condemn abuses of human rights when they're by one of America's enemies.

Only one side has a charter that calls for the genocide of the other, and it isn't Israel. Obviously a country surrounded by people that want to wipe them from the face of the Earth will have to play dirty if they want to survive.
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Israel must go or else ww3 will broke out sooner or latter
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Cause fuck zionist and israeli government
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Every single United Nations member other than America has condemned Israel for being in the wrong with what basically amounts to apartheid.

Is every single other developed country run by evil, Muslim sympathizing anti-Semites? Or could it be that the objective opinion, when your country doesn't have a "special relationship" with Israel, is that they're the bad guys.

real answer:

israel fucked up first, but palestine isn't doing so much good either
everyone should love each other

^ the most PC answer
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How old is the nation of Isreal? Even if you know the answer ask a few people a day to see how many around you know.

The reality of the Balfour Declaration meant that the created state of Isreal will always be tied with the colonialism and colonial powers which made it happen. Yes the original plan had been to make it happen after WW1 which might having gone a little smoother since the British and French were then carving up the Ottoman empire, but since it happened after WW2 when colonialism was going out of style quickly it was an ugly start to the whole thing.

Look at a world map from 101 years ago and then look at one from 98 years ago to see the effects of the Sykes-Picot Agreement, then look up the Balfour Declaration to understand what's been going on in that part of the world over the last five generations. This isn't some ancient thing from millennia ago...

NYmasajista posted...

The reality of the Balfour Declaration meant that the created state of Isreal will always be tied with the colonialism and colonial powers which made it happen. Yes the original plan had been to make it happen after WW1 which might having gone a little smoother since the British and French were then carving up the Ottoman empire, but since it happened after WW2 when colonialism was going out of style quickly it was an ugly start to the whole thing.

Israel isn't even abiding by the Balfour Declaration because they aren't giving the non-Jews who happen to be in the West Bank & Gaza the same rights as the Jews (or non-Jews lucky enough to live in Israel proper, AKA not the West Bank and Gaza)
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Depending on the day it's either have blind support for Israel. Or pretend Israel is innocent and blame Muslims.

I mean both sides suck but I'd say Israel is worse. They had outside government's just grant them land they didn't have and they kept squeezing people off their land.

Hey Jerusalem / Israel can still be the home of the Jews while not being a Jewish state. It just states that gods people will meet in Israel. Didn't say they had to live there or steal the land.
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A big problem is the Third Temple that the Jews want to build on the Holy spot where the Dome of the Rock stands at the moment.
I am kinda surprised that Israel protects it.
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If you care about human rights: both sides are fucked up but Israel is a bit more, because western powers just gave them someone else's land.

If you care about Judeo-Christian values: the land is for the Jewish faith/tribe for whatever reason.

Regardless its a shit show that you can blame Europe for
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I'd have a lot more sympathy for Israel if they gave Gaza/West Bank citizens equal rights under Israeli law. Instead, they're acting as an occupying force or, like others have brought up, an apartheid state.

kislev posted...

Nuke the middle east already

Uh the idea is to not wipe out Israel.
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creativerealms posted...

Uh the idea is to not wipe out Israel.

Maybe Kislev doesn't like that idea.

By no means is Israel perfect.

But guess what? They are surrounded by states that literally want to eradicate them. They have terrorist attacks (or attempts) routinely.

What makes them most important is that they are a staunch American Ally in a sea of disorder and disfunction.

I'd argue that the "politically" correct view is to support the state that has similarly aligning views in the region you are currently fighting in.
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Sounds like two warring groups of people trying to occupy the same area.

That happens in nature a lot too and it typically has one common outcome...
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I honestly think a lot of people don't understand the situation, where people are both prevented from becoming citizens of Israel yet at the same time prevented from having their own state. Israel has placed them in a limbo, a large concentration camp that they cannot escape. Of course there is violent backlash, and that violent backlash is used as a justification to further tighten the grip on this massive concentration camp.

It is called the Gaza Strip.
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Funkdamental posted...

I don't know about politically correct, but the correct view is not seeing it as a left vs. right issue.

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Israel is like a tiny tiny little place where Jews live, surrounded by a super vast ocean filled with muslims swearing to wipe them out of existence.

The odds really do seem to be way out of balance. I think they deserve a little bit of slack.
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frozenshock posted...

Israel is like a tiny tiny little place where Jews live, surrounded by a super vast ocean filled with muslims swearing to wipe them out of existence.

The odds really do seem to be way out of balance. I think they deserve a little bit of slack.

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I say flatten both countries into a molten glass
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einegutePerson posted...

frozenshock posted...

Israel is like a tiny tiny little place where Jews live, surrounded by a super vast ocean filled with muslims swearing to wipe them out of existence.

The odds really do seem to be way out of balance. I think they deserve a little bit of slack.

Ah c'mon you know its true
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do you know who the biggest supporter of the israelis are

good ol

u
s
a
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My is longer than both. That is the politically correct view.

Combined.

einegutePerson posted...

do you know who the biggest supporter of the israelis are

good ol

u
s
a

Which is why you all should support them too
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frozenshock posted...

Israel is like a tiny tiny little place where Jews live, surrounded by a super vast ocean filled with muslims swearing to wipe them out of existence.

The odds really do seem to be way out of balance. I think they deserve a little bit of slack.

Tbh wouldn't you be pissed if someone waltzed into your land, bulldozed your home and took it for themselves?

A lot of their actions aren't even abiding by UN law or resolutions.

I try to stay out of these debates though since nothing ever comes of it. I just think that the one issue of taking someone's home should be enough of a reason for that person to hate your guts really, regardless of what some "holy book" says, even though that wouldn't really matter in any other situation.

If the some holy scripture said New York belonged to the Jews, how many people do you think would even take it seriously?
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Funkdamental posted...

I don't know about politically correct, but the correct view is not seeing it as a left vs. right issue.

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RamboCell29 posted...

What makes them most important is that they are a staunch American Ally in a sea of disorder and disfunction.

So's Saudi Fucking Arabia
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CarlGrimes posted...

Funkdamental posted...

And here come all the "conservatives" to attack anyone who dares to raise even a mildly critical voice against abuses of human rights when they're by one of America's allies, but savage anyone who fails to condemn abuses of human rights when they're by one of America's enemies.

Only one side has a charter that calls for the genocide of the other, and it isn't Israel. Obviously a country surrounded by people that want to wipe them from the face of the Earth will have to play dirty if they want to survive.

"The Palestinians are the least powerful and most marginalised people in the region, but unless we keep giving Israel carte blanche to use whatever force they like, kill whoever they like and however many they like, there's every risk that those stone-throwing kids on street corners will destroy divisions of Israeli tanks and overthrow the state."

I mean, come on. That's the sort of scaremongering bullshit that gets wheeled out by people who try to delude US taxpayers that a regional superpower with the world's fourth-biggest arms export industry needs to be permanently propped up on artificial life support with $3bn of their money every year -- the world's biggest welfare scam.

I'd rather be thought of as a "progressive liberal" than as someone who believes that regional superpowers are fully entitled to resort to absolutely any kind of repression to maintain an unjust status quo. It's that kind of amoral cynicism that helps make "conservative" a distasteful, dirty word in the mouths of decent people.
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I've always thoughtt Israel was in the right I don't even know how this is a debate
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Funkdamental posted...

CarlGrimes posted...

Here come all the "progressive liberals" to attack Israel.

And here come all the "conservatives" to attack anyone who dares to raise even a mildly critical voice against abuses of human rights when they're by one of America's allies, but savage anyone who fails to condemn abuses of human rights when they're by one of America's enemies.

No one can trust two-faced bastards to protect human rights or civil liberties when they'll piss on them one moment then turn around and make a crusade out of them the next, depending on what their party tells them to do. Stop playing political games.

You mean the Palestinians oppressing women and forcing 5 year olds to marry 70 year old men is perfectly fine? Fuck off liberal scum, no one wants your twisted sense of morality besides your twisted sense of equality.
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tote_all posted...

Funkdamental posted...

I don't know about politically correct, but the correct view is not seeing it as a left vs. right issue.

Who the fuck thinks the middle east is a left vs. right issue?

Plenty of fucking idiots who think there's a big checklist of issues they need to tick in order to self-identify as conservative/right or liberal/left, and that the position they take on the Israel/Palestine question is one of the criteria that defines where they stand on the political spectrum.
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BignutzisBack posted...

I've always thoughtt Israel was in the right I don't even know how this is a debate

Okay im usually not condescending about these issues, but seriously? Where have you been these last decades?
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Tropicalwood posted...

Funkdamental posted...

CarlGrimes posted...

Here come all the "progressive liberals" to attack Israel.

And here come all the "conservatives" to attack anyone who dares to raise even a mildly critical voice against abuses of human rights when they're by one of America's allies, but savage anyone who fails to condemn abuses of human rights when they're by one of America's enemies.

No one can trust two-faced bastards to protect human rights or civil liberties when they'll piss on them one moment then turn around and make a crusade out of them the next, depending on what their party tells them to do. Stop playing political games.

You mean the Palestinians oppressing women and forcing 5 year olds to marry 70 year old men is perfectly fine? Fuck off liberal scum, no one wants your twisted sense of morality besides your twisted sense of equality.

Go back and re-read what I wrote .... slooooowly. Use your finger to trace the words if it helps -- because it sounds like you struggle with words and you need all the help you can get. Then quote in full my sentence where I said child marriage was perfectly fine.

Can't find it? That's because I never even implied any such thing, shit-for-brains. Your debating skills are so piss-feeble that you can't even string together a coherent argument that could punch its way out of a wet paper bag. That's why turdwits like you are forced to resort instead to grotesque, off-the-wall idiocy such as equating condemnation of human rights abuses with a big thumbs up for child marriage. "What? You want tighter controls on, say, the use of white phosphorus? Why don't you just admit you support pedophiles, liberal scum?!" I mean, Jesus God. Did your parents actually pay for your education? Because if so, they deserve a refund and a fucking apology.
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Funkdamental posted...

Tropicalwood posted...

Funkdamental posted...

CarlGrimes posted...

Here come all the "progressive liberals" to attack Israel.

And here come all the "conservatives" to attack anyone who dares to raise even a mildly critical voice against abuses of human rights when they're by one of America's allies, but savage anyone who fails to condemn abuses of human rights when they're by one of America's enemies.

No one can trust two-faced bastards to protect human rights or civil liberties when they'll piss on them one moment then turn around and make a crusade out of them the next, depending on what their party tells them to do. Stop playing political games.

You mean the Palestinians oppressing women and forcing 5 year olds to marry 70 year old men is perfectly fine? Fuck off liberal scum, no one wants your twisted sense of morality besides your twisted sense of equality.

Go back and re-read what I wrote .... slooooowly. Use your finger to trace the words if it helps -- because it sounds like you struggle with words and you need all the help you can get. Then quote in full my sentence where I said child marriage was perfectly fine.

Can't find it? That's because I never even implied any such thing, shit-for-brains. Your debating skills are so piss-feeble that you can't even string together a coherent argument that could punch its way out of a wet paper bag. That's why turdwits like you are forced to resort instead to grotesque, off-the-wall idiocy such as equating condemnation of human rights abuses with a big thumbs up for child marriage. "What? You want tighter controls on, say, the use of white phosphorus? Why don't you just admit you support pedophiles, liberal scum?!" I mean, Jesus God. Did your parents actually pay for your education? Because if so, they deserve a refund and a fucking apology.

Oh piss off, we all know you're cherrypicking crap so you can ignore that Muslim countries are a cesspit of human rights violations specifically women's and gays. So don't try to tell us that Israel is somehow this big bad nation in the middle east when it's one of few outside Saudi Arabia that actually let women drive. Bet that's a big surprise to you.
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Funkdamental posted...

"The Palestinians are the least powerful and most marginalised people in the region, but unless we keep giving Israel carte blanche to use whatever force they like, kill whoever they like and however many they like, there's every risk that those stone-throwing kids on street corners will destroy divisions of Israeli tanks and overthrow the state."

You do know that it is more than just Palestine that wants to kill them right? And that Palestine regularly gets support from every major muslim country in their quest to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth? And that a terrorist organization is in charge of Palestine?
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