Current Events > Canadian TRANSGENDER advocate shut down showing of documentary against narrative

(+) Yeah! (+)

Last week, CBC was scheduled to air the controversial BBC documentary Transgender Kids: Who Knows Best? but scrapped the plan the day of, citing audience feedback and its own "further review of the doc." Activists had argued that the film was "harmful" and poised to "feed transphobia."

In actuality, the documentary offers a rare and factual perspective on the politicization of gender therapy by featuring interviews with Dr. Kenneth Zucker, a psychologist and international research expert on gender dysphoria in children.

Although his research and approach to therapy are scientifically sound, they counter transgender orthodoxy in ways on which I will elaborate below.

But first, some background: in December of 2015, Zucker was fired from his position at the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH), where he had served as head of the Child, Youth, and Family Gender Identity Clinic. Many activists who had petitioned for his removal claimed victory.

What was so controversial about Zucker's approach? In short, he did not blindly follow the current popular dogma of affirming young children who say they want to transition to the opposite sex. Instead, Zucker's therapy was informed by research that shows that the majority of gender dysphoric children desist by puberty.

Indeed, across all 11 studies conducted on this topic, including research published in the last five years, about 60 to 90 per cent of gender dysphoric children grow up to be gay in adulthood, not transgender.

Zucker's approach was not about "curing" transgender kids or conducting "reparative" or "conversion therapy," as some of his critics contend. Rather, it was about recognizing that it simply doesn't make sense for a child to undergo the challenges of a social or physical transition if they are likely to grow comfortable in the body they already have, on their own.

To be clear, Zucker wasn't against transitioning for transgender people; he published academic studies supporting the use of hormonal blockers and cross-sex hormones for patients upon reaching puberty. He simply challenged the notion that every single child who says he or she is of the wrong gender is actually transgender.

The film also discusses the subject of detransitioning: a process whereby people who have transitioned end up regretting it and transition back to their birth sex. It also shed light on the theory that underlying conditions can be mistaken for gender dysphoria, including autism and borderline personality disorder.

Nowadays, clinicians face extreme pressure to endorse the early transitioning model for their young patients, even when it may not be the best way forward for them. That's certainly the message that Zucker's firing sent, and it speaks all the more to why the film needed to be aired.

More recently, this activism has influenced Canadian policy by way of Ontario's Bill 77 the Affirming Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Act of 2015 which incorrectly conflates therapeutic approaches like Zucker's with unethical attempts to change a person's sexual orientation. And Bill 89 earlier this year, which writes gender ideology into child welfare laws and justifies intervention on the part of the government if a parent does not affirm a child's gender identity or expression.

Supporting transgender people, including their right to dignity, support and medical intervention, isn't at odds with taking a scientifically guided approach to determining the best outcomes for children. But as is commonly the case with political movements, these nuances only complicate the narrative and cede opportunities for activists to gain further ground.

Those complicit in the silencing of legitimate science have lost sight of the forest for the trees. The issue is no longer about what's in the best interest of these children, but about winning, at any cost, the ideological war.

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Fascists
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What is it with leftists and suppressing facts?
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2000 rubles have been deposited into your account. Keep up the good work, Ivan.

Callixtus posted...

What is it with leftists and suppressing facts?

Why are you bumping your own shitpost?
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This is the shit society we live in now. Nobody cares about the truth anymore. Just politics and peddling worthless agendas.
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Unaltered Puberty completely crushes a transgender person's spirit and sends them into crippling depression that usually ends in suicide. Starting Hormone Therapy before then is best for their physical and mental development.
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Duncanwii posted...

Unaltered Puberty completely crushes a transgender person's spirit and sends them into crippling depression that usually ends in suicide. Starting Hormone Therapy before then is best for their physical and mental development.

Did you ignore the part where most of these children snap out of it and just become gay?
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interesting
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Infinite 2003 posted...

This is the shit society we live in now. Nobody cares about the truth anymore. Just politics and peddling worthless agendas.

don't worry about it here. Ken Zucker isn't peddling anything remotely considered "truth".
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Callixtus posted...

Duncanwii posted...

Unaltered Puberty completely crushes a transgender person's spirit and sends them into crippling depression that usually ends in suicide. Starting Hormone Therapy before then is best for their physical and mental development.

Did you ignore the part where most of these children snap out of it and just become gay?

did you ignore the part where Zucker counts any sort of gender non-conforming behavior as "trans", so he can spin the stats so it looks like a bunch of trans kids change their minds? His methodology is 100% designed to push the agenda he wants to push. you just don't care, because it's also the one you want to hear.
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SJWs want Lord of the Flies to be real
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Medussa posted...

Callixtus posted...

Duncanwii posted...

Unaltered Puberty completely crushes a transgender person's spirit and sends them into crippling depression that usually ends in suicide. Starting Hormone Therapy before then is best for their physical and mental development.

Did you ignore the part where most of these children snap out of it and just become gay?

did you ignore the part where Zucker counts any sort of gender non-conforming behavior as "trans", so he can spin the stats so it looks like a bunch of trans kids change their minds? His methodology is 100% designed to push the agenda he wants to push. you just don't care, because it's also the one you want to hear.

<citation needed>
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Callixtus posted...

What is it with leftists and suppressing facts?

Why are you so dumb you can't see this is both side's fault? When you decide that your enemy in the world is 'leftists' considering that describes around half the country, you're going out of your way to make it into an 'us vs them' argument. Is there any possibility you actually care about suppressing facts? If so, you would realize both sides do it equally. You're like the kid who thinks most wars have a 'bad guy' and a 'good guy' when it's rarely that simple.
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classic bothsidesism
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In other words, some cases of childhood gender dysphoria are alleviated by regular puberty.

That concept really shouldn't be mind-blowing...
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ClockworkHare posted...

In other words, some cases of childhood gender dysphoria are alleviated by regular puberty.

That concept really shouldn't be mind-blowing...

Well, more like nearly all. It seems only a small number of cases result in persistent Disphoria after puberty.
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TC is banned,
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Kaname_Madoka posted...

TC is banned,

Fucking good.

I mean the doctor isn't wrong, many "transgender" children go back to their birth sex by puberty. However this does give a short time to determine whether or not to use hormone blockers, and may result in suffering for transgender teens. Then again, misdiagnosis comes with its own slew of side effects and can fuck up an otherwise healthy individual.

One of those problems where there's no easy solution unless we throw ethics out the door and begin examining/testing the brains of children in distress.
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Callixtus posted...

What is it with leftists and suppressing facts?

Its called having no argument then threatening others with bad PR to have your way. I fucking hate this place some days. I wish I could afford to leave...
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Callixtus posted...

Indeed, across all 11 studies conducted on this topic, including research published in the last five years, about 60 to 90 per cent of gender dysphoric children grow up to be gay in adulthood, not transgender.

This is a huge fact that people need to realize. Kids don't know wtf they're talking about, so allowing them choose to switch genders is literally child abuse. After they grow up and know wtf they're talk about? Have at it. But to just bend to the heavily influenced whims of a child? You're a fucking moron if you do that.
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The program doctored a lot of the interviews they had with families and trans people. It was edited to create the argument that it's harmful when no permanent treatment is even issued until the mid teens.
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

Callixtus posted...

What is it with leftists and suppressing facts?

Its called having no argument then threatening others with bad PR to have your way. I fucking hate this place some days. I wish I could afford to leave...

So you're buying into idiotic notion that the left suppresses facts and the right doesn't? You're part of the problem.
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I don't know, even assuming that the documentary is indeed questionable, documentaries even on subjects like intelligent design have been aired before. Hell, the History Channel is loaded with very questionable documentaries.
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nicklebro posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

Callixtus posted...

What is it with leftists and suppressing facts?

Its called having no argument then threatening others with bad PR to have your way. I fucking hate this place some days. I wish I could afford to leave...

So you're buying into idiotic notion that the left suppresses facts and the right doesn't? You're part of the problem.

Youre buying into the idiotic notion that Im automatically with them because I dislike the other side? There are more than two options. Oversensitive people making assumptions are the problem (you). Doesnt matter which side. This is no different than the religious right people trying to ban things, but you just had to freak out without enough information, huh?
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NibeIungsnarf posted...

Kaname_Madoka posted...

TC is banned,

Fucking good.

He said something truthful. The truth hurts, ban him!
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TheCyborgNinja posted...

Youre buying into the idiotic notion that Im automatically with them because I dislike the other side? There are more than two options. Oversensitive people making assumptions are the problem (you). Doesnt matter which side. This is no different than the religious right people trying to ban things, but you just had to freak out without enough information, huh?

You just agreed with a post that said the left suppresses facts. So unless you're now amending your post to mean that you aren't singling out the left, then you're still wrong. Idk why you're so triggered and throwing a hissy fit when called on your bullshit.

So which is it? Do you believe the left suppresses facts while the right is a shining beacon of truth? Or do you admit that honesty does not have a political stance?

BTW I never said anything about any specific political issue. Just the fact that you're calling one side a liar and not the other.
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_Goggalor_ posted...

NibeIungsnarf posted...

Kaname_Madoka posted...

TC is banned,

Fucking good.

He said something truthful. The truth hurts, ban him!

This would only make sense if you actually believe he was banned for "telling the truth" and not the much more likely scenario that he was banned for being a trolling shitposter who went too far. In which case it would also be much likely that this is why I commented as I did.

nicklebro posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

Youre buying into the idiotic notion that Im automatically with them because I dislike the other side? There are more than two options. Oversensitive people making assumptions are the problem (you). Doesnt matter which side. This is no different than the religious right people trying to ban things, but you just had to freak out without enough information, huh?

You just agreed with a post that said the left suppresses facts. So unless you're now amending your post to mean that you aren't singling out the left, then you're still wrong. Idk why you're so triggered and throwing a hissy fit when called on your bullshit.

So which is it? Do you believe the left suppresses facts while the right is a shining beacon of truth? Or do you admit that honesty does not have a political stance?

BTW I never said anything about any specific political issue. Just the fact that you're calling one side a liar and not the other.

So people should go out of their way to attack the right in a topic that has nothing to do with them because otherwise it hurts your feelings? It's hilarious you're trying to claim he's throwing a hissy fit when you're literally getting all pissy for no reason
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nicklebro posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

Youre buying into the idiotic notion that Im automatically with them because I dislike the other side? There are more than two options. Oversensitive people making assumptions are the problem (you). Doesnt matter which side. This is no different than the religious right people trying to ban things, but you just had to freak out without enough information, huh?

You just agreed with a post that said the left suppresses facts. So unless you're now amending your post to mean that you aren't singling out the left, then you're still wrong. Idk why you're so triggered and throwing a hissy fit when called on your bullshit.

So which is it? Do you believe the left suppresses facts while the right is a shining beacon of truth? Or do you admit that honesty does not have a political stance?

BTW I never said anything about any specific political issue. Just the fact that you're calling one side a liar and not the other.

This is a topic in which the Left is trying to keep a documentary unwatched by the public. Bringing up the bad behavior of the Right would just be off-topic. When pointing put the bad behaviour of one group, we don't always have to talk about the bad behavior of their rival group.

Saying "the Left suppresses facts" is not saying "the Right is a beacon of truth". In fact, it is a statement that has nothing to do with the Right at all.
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Infinite 2003 posted...

So people should go out of their way to attack the right in a topic that has nothing to do with them because otherwise it hurts your feelings? It's hilarious you're trying to claim he's throwing a hissy fit when you're literally getting all pissy for no reason

I didn't say he had to attack anyone. I was going to take the time to actually explain this to you, but it'd obviously fall on deaf ears So instead here's a smiley face :D

Esrac posted...

This is a topic in which the Left is trying to keep a documentary unwatched by the public. Bringing up the bad behavior of the Right would just be off-topic. When pointing put the bad behaviour of one group, we don't always have to talk about the bad behavior of their rival group.

Saying "the Left suppresses facts" is not saying "the Right is a beacon of truth". In fact, it is a statement that has nothing to do with the Right at all.

Saying "the left suppresses facts" does indeed imply that the right does not. Otherwise why make the distinction? If you're going to bother to make a distinction between right and left, you're quite obviously inferring that the opposite side does not follow suit. I mean this is just common sense. Plus, its very easy to simply agree that the specific subject at hand is dishonest and suppresses facts without indicting the entire left, which is also incorrect.

Do you guys seriously need this stuff explained to you?
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nicklebro posted...

Infinite 2003 posted...

So people should go out of their way to attack the right in a topic that has nothing to do with them because otherwise it hurts your feelings? It's hilarious you're trying to claim he's throwing a hissy fit when you're literally getting all pissy for no reason

I didn't say he had to attack anyone. I was going to take the time to actually explain this to you, but it'd obviously fall on deaf ears So instead here's a smiley face :D

Esrac posted...

This is a topic in which the Left is trying to keep a documentary unwatched by the public. Bringing up the bad behavior of the Right would just be off-topic. When pointing put the bad behaviour of one group, we don't always have to talk about the bad behavior of their rival group.

Saying "the Left suppresses facts" is not saying "the Right is a beacon of truth". In fact, it is a statement that has nothing to do with the Right at all.

Saying "the left suppresses facts" does indeed imply that the right does not. Otherwise why make the distinction? If you're going to bother to make a distinction between right and left, you're quite obviously inferring that the opposite side does not follow suit. I mean this is just common sense. Plus, its very easy to simply agree that the specific subject at hand is dishonest and suppresses facts without indicting the entire left, which is also incorrect.

Do you guys seriously need this stuff explained to you?

No. Talking about a specific case of one group, in this case the Left, behaving badly makes no statement on another group, like the Right. We aren't talking about the two sides in general, we are talking about a specific case in which leftist transgender activists are working to have a documentary that questions the positions they advocate for kept out of the public eye.

Bringing up the bad behaviour of the Right is just playing a game of Whataboutism to deflect from the specific issue.
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Was he banned for something he said in this topic?
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Esrac posted...

No. Talking about a specific case of one group, in this case the Left, behaving badly makes no statement on another group, like the Right. We aren't talking about the two sides in general, we are talking about a specific case in which leftist transgender activists are working to have a documentary that questions the positions they advocate for kept out of the public eye.

Bringing up the bad behaviour of the Right is just playing a game of Whataboutism to deflect from the specific issue.

If your argument is that you're talking about one specific case, then the claim should be about that specific group, but instead you've painted the entire left as being represented by this one small group of people. Which really doesn't make sense when the facts being suppressed were being broadcasted by someone else on the left Lol.

And again, no one said to bring up the bad behavior of the right. Could you guys please drop that? No one is saying that. I'm saying don't bring up either side as a generalization when the thing you're talking about applies to people in general anyways. Its the same thing as saying "Republicans are fat", because Democrats are fat too, so it makes no sense to go out of your way to choose an entire political party when what you're saying has nothing to do with political parties.

Just like suppressing facts has nothing to do with being on the left or being on the right.

And its pretty apparent you guys do need this explained to you, since you still don't get it.

Man, the right is just incapable of understanding simple concepts. :P
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Indeed, across all 11 studies conducted on this topic, including research published in the last five years, about 60 to 90 per cent of gender dysphoric children grow up to be gay in adulthood, not transgender.

Not really surprised. Another reason why it's idiotic to transition children who don't properly understand their biological impulses.
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gunplagirl posted...

The program doctored a lot of the interviews they had with families and trans people. It was edited to create the argument that it's harmful when no permanent treatment is even issued until the mid teens.

<citations needed>
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The Admiral posted...

Indeed, across all 11 studies conducted on this topic, including research published in the last five years, about 60 to 90 per cent of gender dysphoric children grow up to be gay in adulthood, not transgender.

Not really surprised. Another reason why it's idiotic to transition children who don't properly understand their biological impulses.

I totally agree.
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nicklebro posted...

Esrac posted...

No. Talking about a specific case of one group, in this case the Left, behaving badly makes no statement on another group, like the Right. We aren't talking about the two sides in general, we are talking about a specific case in which leftist transgender activists are working to have a documentary that questions the positions they advocate for kept out of the public eye.

Bringing up the bad behaviour of the Right is just playing a game of Whataboutism to deflect from the specific issue.

If your argument is that you're talking about one specific case, then the claim should be about that specific group, but instead you've painted the entire left as being represented by this one small group of people. Which really doesn't make sense when the facts being suppressed were being broadcasted by someone else on the left Lol.

And again, no one said to bring up the bad behavior of the right. Could you guys please drop that? No one is saying that. I'm saying don't bring up either side as a generalization when the thing you're talking about applies to people in general anyways. Its the same thing as saying "Republicans are fat", because Democrats are fat too, so it makes no sense to go out of your way to choose an entire political party when what you're saying has nothing to do with political parties.

Just like suppressing facts has nothing to do with being on the left or being on the right.

And its pretty apparent you guys do need this explained to you, since you still don't get it.

Man, the right is just incapable of understanding simple concepts. :P

I haven't painted the Left as anything in this topic. I'm just pointing out that making a statement about one group doesn't make any statement or implication about another, because you don't seem to get that. Saying "Republicans are fat" is not the same as saying "Democrats are thin". It doesn't say anything at all about Democrats.

Also, I'm not on the Right. Your assumption that I am is part of the problem. One can be critical of the Left without being on the Right. Not that I've been particularly critical of the Left in this topic.
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Esrac posted...

I'm just pointing out that making a statement about one group doesn't make any statement or implication about another, because you don't seem to get that.

Except that is totally wrong, especially when it comes to the left and the right.

And you are completely ignoring how you're painting the entire left as being represented by this one group suppressing facts, despite those fact being brought forth by the left as well.

Your entire argument is pathological to its core. So you can keep deluding yourself all you want, I've proved you wrong though, and my argument can stand on its own from here.
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Callixtus posted...

Fascists

why do snowflakes love to throw this word at anyone they disagree with
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mario2000 posted...

snowflakes

Why do fascists love to throw this word at anyone they disagree with
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DuranOfForcena posted...

Esrac is completely right that making a statement about one group doesn't make any statement or implication about another.

wrong.
DuranOfForcena posted...

and he's not painting the entire left as being represented by this one group.

Esrac posted...

This is a topic in which the Left is trying to keep a documentary unwatched by the public.

See, this is him blaming the entire left for the actions of this one group. So again, you're wrong.

DuranOfForcena posted...

do you struggle with adequate reading comprehension or something? were you a child left behind?

Is this really the best you could come up with? I mean you might as well go all out if you're gonna throw out childish nonsense like this. It just sucks that you had to post this after saying something that is objectively incorrect.

Anyways, its your incorrect opinion that claiming somethign about the left or the right does not imply something about the other side as well, and you're obviously not mature enough to even consider the possibility that you might be wrong about that, otherwise you'd have realized it long ago and ghosted this topic (since realizing you're wrong and admitting you're wrong are two things you're just not capable of)
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nicklebro posted...

Esrac posted...

I'm just pointing out that making a statement about one group doesn't make any statement or implication about another, because you don't seem to get that.

Except that is totally wrong, especially when it comes to the left and the right.

And you are completely ignoring how you're painting the entire left as being represented by this one group suppressing facts, despite those fact being brought forth by the left as well.

Your entire argument is pathological to its core. So you can keep deluding yourself all you want, I've proved you wrong though, and my argument can stand on its own from here.

You haven't proved anything. You've disagreed with the fact that saying one thing about one group is not a statement about another. Saying X about the Left doesn't say Y about the Right, no matter how badly you seem to want that to be the case.

Also, I haven't painted the Left as anything. I haven't made any general statements about the Left beyond this being a specific case of people on the Left behaving badly.

This bizarre, adversarial mentality you seem to have, in which if not Left then Right, is part of the problem. Assuming I'm on the Right in an earlier post, I think, is indicative of that.

Regardless, it doesn't look like we are going to see eye to eye here.
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Man and you really cant come up with anything good to post huh? Must be frustrating.
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